Solid wood "slab" cabinet doors

[Mark Gibney]

I'm bidding a kitchen that calls for solid maple "slab" cabinet door and drawer fronts.
Real wood all the way through, no veneering over a substrate.

I can imagine these doors warping, and cracking from being banged shut.

Has anyone experience of making or using these door? And what can you tell me?

Thanks, Mark

[Adam Herman]

I would guess they would not like stretchers on the back?

[Erik Loza]

Any chance the builder just isn't clear on the language and really means something else? Any chance you can see a rendering of what the designer is going for? I agree that it makes on sense as it is worded now.

Erik

[sean meltvedt]

Do it all the time-I do have had to remake a couple. My only stipulation is clear finishes only-that way it’s a breeze to match.
cheers
Sean

[Kevin Jenness]

I think you already know the answer. You can explain to the client why this is a bad idea, and how you would meet the design intent with a different construction method. If the specs can't be adjusted, walk away. You could submit a bid with an explicit disavowal of guarantee, but do you really want your name on something so likely to have problems?

[Jamie Buxton]

I run into that occasionally. The inexperienced buyer thinks solid lumber must be better. If you can’t educate them, build them what they want, and charge them for it.
Use quartersawn lumber if you can. If the customer won’t let you do that, use straight-grained wood - that is try to get each piece to cup, not twist. And then do the pith-in, pith-out trick.
Allow for wood expansion. That usually means overlay doors.

[Osvaldo Cristo]

I made our kitchen cabinet doors and front drawers from solid wood and I have had no problems at all... after 27 years.

I construct typical raised panel doors as I see them structurally sounder than a simple slab. If I had to go for a simple slab I would use sliding dovetail reinforcement back of each door panel.

[Richard Coers]

Banging shut is easy to solve with soft close hinges. I've built solid wood furniture for 47 years, not had one crack yet. Suggest rift or quarter sawn for more stability. If they don't want that and you are worried, don't use a board over 3" wide in the doors. Flip the boards end for end to alternate the growth rings. Finally, charge the money to cover any rework and for all the labor involved. If they baulk at the price, tell them it's the solid wood and suggest an alternative. If they really want the solid, they will pay.

[David Publicover]

I’ve had solid cherry slab cabinet doors and drawer fronts for about 5 years. They have been trouble free and look great. Easy to keep clean too! I ordered soft-close hinges and drawer slides so no banging.

[David Stone (CT)]

I have a kitchen full of exactly what's described: slab doors and drawer fronts made from solid maple, manufactured by KraftMaid--put in probably ten years ago by the prior owner. It's not what I would pick style-wise--overlay doors on face frame cabinets--but has held up fine. Doors are dead flat and nothing has checked or cracked. FWIW, the slabs are made up of strips about 2 inches wide, glued up without any apparent concern for grain orientation and certainly not quarter sawn. ...I do wonder if this kind of construction is more practical in a factory setting where the drying of the lumber and moisture content at time of fabrication could be far better controlled than I could ever achieve in my shop...432448

[johnny means]

Banging shut won't be a problem, save for the noise. Cupping absolutely will be a thing. Include the cost of headaches and callbacks in your bid. I would let that one pass.

[Mel Fulks]

I would insist on wood battens with elongated holes .

[Mark Gibney]

David Stone, thanks for the photo and your description of how well the door have held up.
David Publicover - any chance of a photo of your doors?

The contractor is very experienced, and if they want to get these doors I'll give them solid wood doors, but yes I'll point out my concerns, and I think a batten on the back is the way to go as Adam suggests.

Thanks for all the info, gents.
Mark

[Scott Bernstein]

Just a hobby guy here, not a pro. I would think dovetail battens would be the way to keep the slim, sleek profile owhile helping prevent issues. If they don't want those to show (even on the inside) what about internal, hidden, battens? I might think about using my domino joiner to make mortises through all the individual strips for each door (not all the way through on the edge pieces). Then I would make my own very long loose tenons (or use the Festool pre-made tenons that come in long strips) such that each tenon goes through each board, hidden inside. Two of those for each door.

[Bobby Robbinett]

I would give them a crash corse in wood stability and explain the hidden dangers of doors cupping, twisting and bowing due to being (unnecessarily) made from solid wood. I would then explain the benefits of using something like an edge banded MDF core ply. The edge banded MDF core ply will be much more stable over the long term and yet still hold up just as well as a solid wood door with out the probability of it warping or cracking or worse. Also explain the price and weight differences.

[David Publicover]

432521

Mine do not have any battens or such and I’ve had no issues whatsoever. The cabinet company is quite large and offered the doors as a stock choice so I’m sure they don’t have widespread problems.

[mreza Salav]

I wouldn't be overly concerned about solid doors. There isn't much difference between a raised panel mitered door and this situation in terms of chances of cupping or bowing. The mitered frame around the panel won't do much to hold the door from twisting or cupping. So the same concern would hold for raised panel doors. Our house is full of raised panel doors (walnut from Walzcraf) and all are dead flat with Zero twist or cup or bow. some are quite large actually.
I would make the slabs from multiple thin strips (say 2-3" wide) instead of one big slab to make it more stable.

[Mark Bolton]

Itd something that has always concerned me as well but I have seen numerous slab doors with and without battens that look fantastic years after install. Of course someone goes and tries them flush inset,... no workie.

[Lee Schierer]

I made this cabinet with flush inset slab doors with battens 432547432548 These doors were air dried hickory and they are still flat after 8 months. Slamming dors can be eliminated with soft close hinges.

[Mark Bolton]

I made this cabinet with flush inset slab doors with battens

Im not saying with good spacing, and a life in a decently climate controlled space it couldnt work but in the world of flush inset a bank of doors with very tight reveals not in an aggressively climate (humidity) controled space, the reveals or even opening and closing, could be a serious callback issue. There are exceptions to every rule.

[Edwin Santos]

The Krenov school's method for resolving this problem is to take a high quality substrate like baltic birch, edge glue pieces of the selected wood species onto all four edges, mitered if you wish. Then completely veneer over both faces. Unless you cut the door apart, there would be no practical way to discern that it was anything other than solid wood throughout, unless you were on a determined mission to do so.

Plus, this method allows you to edge profile also, if desired so long as you've sized the edge pieces to be wider than the profile. If mitering, the elimination of end grain is a bonus too. Their practice was to use 3/32" shop sawn veneer, but it would still work with the thinner commercial veneer.

I agree with others that if the client/builder is asking for solid slab doors, some discussion may be in order to determine what it is they are trying to achieve, and how to accomplish the goals without the wood movement risks.

Edwin

[Edwin Santos]

I have a kitchen full of exactly what's described: slab doors and drawer fronts made from solid maple, manufactured by KraftMaid--put in probably ten years ago by the prior owner. It's not what I would pick style-wise--overlay doors on face frame cabinets--but has held up fine. Doors are dead flat and nothing has checked or cracked. FWIW, the slabs are made up of strips about 2 inches wide, glued up without any apparent concern for grain orientation and certainly not quarter sawn. ...I do wonder if this kind of construction is more practical in a factory setting where the drying of the lumber and moisture content at time of fabrication could be far better controlled than I could ever achieve in my shop...432448

If you cut one of those doors apart to see the core, I would bet you would be in for a surprise if you think they are made from solid lumber. The strips you are seeing are likely just the outer veneer being laid up randomly.

Now that I think about it, if you really wanted to know, just unscrew and remove one of the hinge cups and we'll then know if it's live or if it's Memorex.

[Andy D Jones]

The Krenov school's method for resolving this problem is to take a high quality substrate like baltic birch, edge glue pieces of the selected wood species onto all four edges, mitered if you wish. Then completely veneer over both faces. Unless you cut the door apart, there would be no way to discern that it was anything other than solid wood throughout.
In fact, this method allows you to edge profile also, if desired so long as you've sized the edge pieces to be wider than the profile. If mitering, the elimination of end grain is a bonus too. Their practice was to use 3/32" shop sawn veneer, but it would still work with the thinner commercial veneer.

I agree with others that if the client/builder is asking for solid slab doors, some discussion may be in order to determine what it is they are trying to achieve, and how to accomplish the goals without the wood movement risks.

Edwin

The long grain on the top and bottom edges would be the tell for most of us, without having to cut it open. Whether it would be obvious to the customer is a different matter.

-- Andy - Arlington TX

[Mark Bolton]

The long grain on the top and bottom edges would be the tell for most of us, without having to cut it open. Whether it would be obvious to the customer is a different matter.

-- Andy - Arlington TX

DING DING lol. Other than cutting endgrain slices and gluing those top and bottom and then aligning the veneer to the joints.. but if I EVER have someone in my home, that would be that much of a butt hole, they will be shown the door with absolutely zero consideration. lol

The bottom line is, many posts here, and my own experience, have shot my worry about slab doors down in flames. They can be perfectly fine. Good material selection, hopefully a relatively decent climate conrol in the home, and allowing for the issues I wouldnt hesitate to build them if someone asked.

[Edwin Santos]

The long grain on the top and bottom edges would be the tell for most of us, without having to cut it open. Whether it would be obvious to the customer is a different matter.

-- Andy - Arlington TX

Okay, touché, you're right.

But as Mark indicates, the person who would actually point it out would be the same person who will point out door dings in your car that you already know are there.
Which is not to say long grain wrapping the entire door is necessarily a bad thing, especially if someone specifying a slab door is looking for a clean, quiet look.

[Osvaldo Cristo]

My wife requested today I make a small cabinet for our washing room using solid wood including a single wood panel for the front doors. I will use sliding dovetails at back face to reinforce the solid wood door.

Coincidence?

[Patrick Walsh]

Nothing wrong with solid wood panels. In the case of raised panel that’s pretty much the only way. Go the krenov way if you please but I’m the guy that will point out the couple blemishes in the paint of your new restored car.

Material selection and mill that material slow. Take the edge glue joints eaqually slow. Just oversized all your stock all the way to your last pass through the planer or sander. Let everything sit stickered between I long and gluing steps and make sure it’s all on a dead flat bench with exact thickness stickers. If your surgical about your construction and don’t use like African mahogany or something stupid you will have no issues.

[Jim Dwight]

I have done this for some pretty wide drawer fronts but not doors. As long as the client is not super picky I think the risk is probably limited to a door or two that need fixed, max. I think it will work OK.

[Mark Gibney]

Thanks everyone. Turns out a local place I use for drawer boxes, Drees Wood Products, make these doors, and told me they've been doing them for years.
So that makes this job much easier to bid than if I'm trying to figure out the cost of making them myself.
Drees don't give a warranty on these doors however. Don't blame them!

thanks, Mark

[David Stone (CT)]

If you cut one of those doors apart to see the core, I would bet you would be in for a surprise if you think they are made from solid lumber. The strips you are seeing are likely just the outer veneer being laid up randomly.

Now that I think about it, if you really wanted to know, just unscrew and remove one of the hinge cups and we'll then know if it's live or if it's Memorex.

Actually, I have drilled into them: to install childproofing/puppyproofing safety latches. They're most definitely solid. Not fun trying to get small screws into maple, even with pilot holes.