Split top Roubo bench build

[Mark e Kessler]

Hi folks, so I am finally building a proper bench and looking for some opinions on a few things.

First thing is bench depth, I started out in furniture making but spent most of my years doing cabinetry and Architectural woodwork so I am having a hard time wrapping my head around a 24” bench however I can’t really go over 30” anyways and I am only building furniture now. My current bench is 30” but I cut it down to 24” and i am liking it but hard to tell unless I spend more time, I will be building the bench before I have enough time on it...

I am leaning to 24” simply because 30” ain’t that much bigger and thinking when I do need more than 24” the 30” wouldn’t have been big enough either, am I missing something here?

The other thing, split top - I like the idea of being able to clamp in the middle of the bench, working a drawer box or “L” shaped part by using the gap I also like the 2 separate tops from a build/handling perspective.

I won’t ever want to park tools in the gap stop (am a tool tray hater) or use it as a hook in the other direction, I know I could make a solid removable infill but knowing me I would just leave it out all the time so is having that gap an issue, here is my simpleton example I don’t build chairs but I could see that gap being a pain, like you have it on the bench you are scooting it around and the leg drops in the gap. So other than the chair (if even an issue, well guess not - I don’t build chairs ��) or crap falling into the gap.

Thoughts and experience appreciated, Mark

https://www.instagram.com/kessler_woodworks/?hl=en

[David M Peters]

The infill technique works pretty well, I did it on my split-top and would do it again. A popular option is to allow it to sit proud of the surface in order to let it serve as a plane/sanding/whatever stop. It's also handy to build it with tool holes.

432386

I'm pretty sure that I got these ideas from the Samurai Carpenter's bench project.

[Richard Coers]

A workbench is rarely used as a large scale assembly table.

[Jim Becker]

You should design your workbench top to meet your needs based on how you work and with what you work. Folks who are into heavy hand tool use have different requirements than folks like me who use hand tools, but only for finesse work or when they are the best choice for a particular project refinement. A split bench or one with a tool tray would drive me bonkers, but they are the bee's knees for some other woodworker. My new benchtop is 1660mm x 775mm which is a hair longer than 60" and a hair narrower than 30". It suits my needs but wouldn't be right for many other folks for sure.

[Bert McMahan]

It sounds like all you personally would need is the ability to clamp in the middle of the table. If that's the case, you can use bench dog holes and clamp wherever you'd like. If you think you'll need to clamp really tall stuff and don't want to buy 3' bench dogs, cut some rectangular holes in there and you can snake in a regular clamp.

[David Eisenhauer]

I have a split top and do have a sliding tray between the two tops to hold my odd-shaped, kind of bulky marking gauges near by but below the top level. That works for me, others (like you) don't want one at all. Understood. I do clamp down between the slot at times and enjoy having that capability. How about leaving a gap between the two split tops and making up a solid gap filler (level with the split tops and without any tool slots, etc)) that fits snugly to give you a flat, uninterrupted surface but also with the capability to remove it and use the slot as needed for clamping.

[David Stone (CT)]

I am leaning to 24” simply because 30” ain’t that much bigger and thinking when I do need more than 24” the 30” wouldn’t have been big enough either, am I missing something here?

My workbench is about 24 inches wide, because that's what's practical in my space. Mostly, it works fine but there are a fair number of times where several more inches really would be an advantage, most commonly when using the bench as a work surface to clamp up something like a door assembly or multi-board glue-up. Not infrequently these are right around two feet in width and longer in length, and so exceed the capacity of the bench after taking account of the extra couple inches needed each side to support the clamps. ...My ideal would be to skip the bench and do these operations on a big dedicated assembly table instead, but that's not an option for now.

[Jeff Bartley]

I have a split top and do have a sliding tray between the two tops to hold my odd-shaped, kind of bulky marking gauges near by but below the top level. That works for me, others (like you) don't want one at all. Understood. I do clamp down between the slot at times and enjoy having that capability. How about leaving a gap between the two split tops and making up a solid gap filler (level with the split tops and without any tool slots, etc)) that fits snugly to give you a flat, uninterrupted surface but also with the capability to remove it and use the slot as needed for clamping.

I have the same set up on mine. And if it helps at all my bench is 26" wide. Some days it could be wider but those days are few for me.

[Brian Tymchak]

A workbench is rarely used as a large scale assembly table.

Unless you are space constrained. I have a small shop and the workbench is the only assembly area I have.

[Brian Tymchak]

I have a split top and do have a sliding tray between the two tops to hold my odd-shaped, kind of bulky marking gauges near by but below the top level. That works for me, others (like you) don't want one at all. Understood. I do clamp down between the slot at times and enjoy having that capability. How about leaving a gap between the two split tops and making up a solid gap filler (level with the split tops and without any tool slots, etc)) that fits snugly to give you a flat, uninterrupted surface but also with the capability to remove it and use the slot as needed for clamping.

My bench is a near clone of Bob Langs 21st Century workbench in PWW. This bench is a split top with open boxes for storage. These can also be flipped to provide solid top. I normally have some open and some flipped. Kind of a best-of-both-worlds solution.

432419

[Mark e Kessler]

Good feed back from everyone so far, I kinda like the lang design with the three removable trays, but I think I am gona stick with the 24” wide and prollY about 90” long, gap at about 2” and probably wait to make an infill after I see how i use the bench



My bench is a near clone of Bob Langs 21st Century workbench in PWW. This bench is a split top with open boxes for storage. These can also be flipped to provide solid top. I normally have some open and some flipped. Kind of a best-of-both-worlds solution.

432419

[Anuj Prateek]

On center insert:

On my bench it's mostly kept aside during a project. I find the gap useful for clamps. When I built my bench I thought it would be useful but so far it has not served any use.

On width:

I made my bench 24" wide based on what I read online. Before that I had a makeshift general purpose bench that was 32" wide.

Whenever I will remake my bench, I will make it longer, single laminated slabbed and little less wider. I find width does not really add anything for my purpose. And split makes it a little difficult to flatten.

[Thomas Crawford]

I've had a 25" wide, 8' long Roubo for about 10 years. I'm going to build a new one this fall. I've wanted it to be longer (10') but never wider. I'll pull the new one into 24" wide and go 9-10' long. I'd like more space for a tail vise and have a moxon clamped up at the same time. I also have my hand mitre saw on a bench hook type platform so I end up with a lot of junk on my bench at once.

I can't think of a scenario in which I ever wanted the split top, I just use hold fasts to make a ledge if I need it.

[Scott Winners]

I think Jim Becker pretty much nailed it. It depends on what on you are making and what tools you reach for. Height of bench top is going to vary with the above and your body's height.

You sound pretty ok with your current 24 inch depth/width. What is it about your current bench that you don't like exactly? Not long enough? Can't clamp in the middle? Too rickety? Not enough weight?

[Derek Cohen]

You should design your workbench top to meet your needs based on how you work and with what you work. Folks who are into heavy hand tool use have different requirements than folks like me who use hand tools, but only for finesse work or when they are the best choice for a particular project refinement. A split bench or one with a tool tray would drive me bonkers, but they are the bee's knees for some other woodworker. My new benchtop is 1660mm x 775mm which is a hair longer than 60" and a hair narrower than 30". It suits my needs but wouldn't be right for many other folks for sure.

Wise words from what-his-name :)

Mark, the only area is which Jim and I differ is that he is primarily power tool-based and I am primarily hand tool-based. My bench is the heart of my workshop, where I build furniture to my own designs.

I have a Roubo, which is about 12" away from the wall. I store all my marking tools on the wall, and bench planes in cabinets above. I need to be able to reach across the bench and, as a result, the bench is 22 wide. I would only consider wider if the bench was accessed from both sides, and I used it that way. I like the width it is, and find it perfect - I have not felt the need for anything wider.

My bench top is solid, not split. Like Jim, I think that would drive me nuts. If I needed a clamp in the centre, I would either use a caul, or I would pass a clamp through a dog hole (there are a few in the middle of the bench).

My tool tray is a design I came up with that serves me very well. Instead of being attached to the bench, it is attached to the wall. This means I can reach it, and it is out of the way when I clamp across the bench (plus I can pull the bench away from the wall if necessary).

Work holding is important, but it can be quite personal. What works for me is a leg vise (I built this with a wooden thread but, if I was doing it again, I would get the BenchCrafted metal screw). The leg vise is used for jointing long boards. I have the BenchCrafted wagon vise (for planing faces on the bench) Absolutely love it!. I have the world best Moxon dovetail vise. This deals with all dovetailing needs. There are a number of other work holding accessories I have built over the years. Yell out if you want photos.

My bench is about 80" long and 34" high. I am about 5'10".

https://i.postimg.cc/NffdYGd3/D4a.jpg

Leg vise with chain drive ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/AYSLegViseChainAdjuster_html_673377d5.jpg

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/AYSLegViseChainAdjuster_html_5654bec3.jpg



Plenty big for assembly ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/HarlequinSideTableTheLegs_html_m70326a3f.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Becker]

Height of bench top is going to vary with the above and your body's height.

Many folks know that I'm an advocate of adjustable height for work surfaces. Both my primary and my auxiliary bench are adjustable height and I wouldn't want it any other way. If I had a dedicated assembly surface, I'd want that adjustable height, too, even it if was some quick and simple method like rectangular boxes and slip-assembled supports of varying sizes. But that's a different matter since the OP is contemplating the bench top design.

Derek, "what's-his-name" is actually a kind of a family affliction that seems to get passed on each generation. Of course, it really refers to forgetfulness. LOL

[Derek Cohen]

Derek, "what's-his-name" is actually a kind of a family affliction that seems to get passed on each generation. Of course, it really refers to forgetfulness. LOL

Jim, I grew up with a mother who could never get anyone's name at first go. A question directed at a family member at the dinner table involved her running through the names of all before she got it right. :) In spite of this sometimes humorous sometimes frustrating word finding difficulty for family names, she was a highly articulate journalist. 95 years young today.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mark e Kessler]

Hi Scott,

I think I am ok with 24” depth, I cut my current bench top down to that and seems to be working. I am about 6’ and will make it 35” tall, what I don’t like about my bench is it’s a bit lite, work holding sucks, no end vice and not long enough, i planned on 87” as it was really the max that I thought would work but now I realize that I could have made 96” and the boards I bought were 10’ however i rough cut them to about 94”-96” and skip dressed them before I realized I could go longer... oh well...


I think Jim Becker pretty much nailed it. It depends on what on you are making and what tools you reach for. Height of bench top is going to vary with the above and your body's height.

You sound pretty ok with your current 24 inch depth/width. What is it about your current bench that you don't like exactly? Not long enough? Can't clamp in the middle? Too rickety? Not enough weight?

[Mark e Kessler]

Hi Derek,

Thanks for all the details, I am probably 60/40 split power vs hand always leaning power when I can, I used to do primarily hand when I first got out of school where we spent the first 6 months learning how to maintain and tune our hand tools and designing and building a piece of furniture from the rough completely by hand, machines were not allowed until after that project, that was 30yrs ago - I digress...

I like your setup on how you have tool tray on the wall, I like to work on both sides of a bench and have my back to a wall and in a corner (I am the paranoid type :D ) and on that wall are my hand tools and a row of base cabinets and a work top, The three cabinet shops I worked in early in my career were this way so I think thats where that came from.

I did buy the benchcrafted classic leg and tail vise so super excited about that, i am still split on the split - ha, I made a joke... honestly I don’t know if i would end up clamping using the center gap but I like the idea of it being able to be handled easier at least during the building process and I figure I could always build a solid infill if I didn’t like the gap or even just add the strip and glue it.

However something interesting happened tonight while I was working on a project, I realized that if my bench was longer (it’s like 70” now) like the roubo will be that maybe I would put a few of the tools I was currently using in a tool slot In the center so they were not just floating around but in a spot, the same spot. I even for a second (like 2 seconds, maybe 3) thought to myself would a tool tray work? I mean like I am sliding furniture pieces around on the bench checking, fitting etc and the square, marking knife, tape measure, etc are in the way just getting pushed around, if i had a tool tray in the bench problem solved! Then I came to my senses - NO! LOL...

I have a few weeks to decide on the top as I am letting the wood relax and acclimate afTer the skip dressing + I need to get my firewood ready for next year which will take a week or so, it’s mid May for craps sake...

Oh and I thought I had the worlds best Moxon, I just finished it....
432749

[Mark e Kessler]

You are right about that, when I had my business and when I worked at other cabinet shops I had 4’ x 8’ assembly benches - that was the work bench, usually had a narrow taller worktop behind you that would have a vise but 90 percent of the work occurred on that 4’ x 8’. Working my way back to my roots which is furniture making exclusively so my plan is to do the Roubo 24” x 90” and make some heavy trestle stands at a lower height to pull out for assembly when needed, I will still do some assembly on the Roubo but this way I have options and frees my mind from thinking I need a wider bench than 24”



Unless you are space constrained. I have a small shop and the workbench is the only assembly area I have.

[Thomas Crawford]

Does anyone here use a workbench with a 10' (120") + length?

[Mark e Kessler]

So quick update, am going with the split top 26” wide by 92” ish long, 35” tall
Heres the why:
- 26” wide = 30” too wide, 24” too narrow.
- 92”ish long = Well I planned on 87” and I even had 120” material but by the time I decided to make it as long as possible I rough cut and skip dressed the material to 96”ish.
- Split top = Honestly I don’t know why, it goes against the grain of what I am familiar with but hell you only live once and it can always be made solid later albeit a pain...

Here are a few photos the base is pretty much done starting the top tomorrow. If you would like to follow the shenanigans go here: https://www.instagram.com/kessler_woodworks/

434010434011

[Jim Becker]

That's going to be a nice bench, Mark. IMHO, it was good you did the base first. (although one clearly must have in mind the approximate size of the intended top before doing that) One of the best things about building our own benches is that we have the opportunity to make it work for our own needs which are always different than the next worker. I look forward to the rest of this project!

[David Eisenhauer]

You are just about there Mark with the base. I went base first as well and was able to use the base to help with the multi-piece top fabrication. As even the split top pieces are heavy and I was a one-man installation team, I intentionally did not create a tight-tight fitup between the tenons on top of my legs and the mortises in the bottom of the table because I did not want to have to fight the fitup and do multiple install-remove cycles for fitup tuning. I drew the outline of the tenons on the bottom of the top pieces and took the line when I chopped the mortises. The tops plopped down into place on the first try. I use my split for a sliding tray that holds my marking gauges and a couple of chisel caddys, but I can turn the tray upside down to create a gap-free area if I so desire. Either way, you will enjoy the new bench. I do want to build a smaller Ruobo-looking joinery bench closer to 40"/40 something" tall that will not have a split in it to help my old eyes and save my aching back from hunching over to see close joinery.

[Thomas Crawford]

Is the base same width as the top or will you have overhang on the back? Just curious. Might make it easier to build the base first that way in case the top finished out slightly different width than expected.

[Mark e Kessler]

Thanks Jim, it’s the first proper bench I have had - I am originally trained as a furniture maker but after school I went right into business and could never justify The time or money to build one. i closed my business down quite some time ago went back to school to switch careers, I have always done commission work, I doubt this will make my work any better and honestly it’s almost to fancy. I don’t plan on over doing it like I see most bench builds it’s a utilitarian thing to me.


That's going to be a nice bench, Mark. IMHO, it was good you did the base first. (although one clearly must have in mind the approximate size of the intended top before doing that) One of the best things about building our own benches is that we have the opportunity to make it work for our own needs which are always different than the next worker. I look forward to the rest of this project!

[Mark e Kessler]

yea, with the split top building the base first is the way to go if the top was one piece then I would have built the top first. I will probably take the same approach as you with the mortices in the top. The gap stop is intriguing to me, at first I couldn’t imagine wanting to put tools in the slots but Since I have been thinking about it more as I am working I noticed it might be nice to have a place to park the tools to keep them a wrangled in one location instead of all over the place. I see the tool holding being on the right or the left (or both) and the center a solid infill, I am making the gap 2” and when I do the gap stop it will probably have 1/2” sides so the slot for tools will be 1” but i will have to see what I will want to drop in so it may vary in width some.

I like your idea of a smaller roubo joinery bench, I just built a moxon vise and when I finished it I thought a dedicated taller bench would be better but even though i was classically trained in furniture making I am more of a machine tool guy now with hand tools for the finesse work so the moxon will do...


You are just about there Mark with the base. I went base first as well and was able to use the base to help with the multi-piece top fabrication. As even the split top pieces are heavy and I was a one-man installation team, I intentionally did not create a tight-tight fitup between the tenons on top of my legs and the mortises in the bottom of the table because I did not want to have to fight the fitup and do multiple install-remove cycles for fitup tuning. I drew the outline of the tenons on the bottom of the top pieces and took the line when I chopped the mortises. The tops plopped down into place on the first try. I use my split for a sliding tray that holds my marking gauges and a couple of chisel caddys, but I can turn the tray upside down to create a gap-free area if I so desire. Either way, you will enjoy the new bench. I do want to build a smaller Ruobo-looking joinery bench closer to 40"/40 something" tall that will not have a split in it to help my old eyes and save my aching back from hunching over to see close joinery.

[Mark e Kessler]

Top will be the same width of the base, the split top makes it easy to do that. I did contemplate an overhang, I like to clamp glue-ups to a workbench and with the top being flush with the legs that leaves 5.5” (the width of the leg) of un-clampable (is that a word?) area in 2 places on the same plane however I also want to be-able to clamp something large to the face of the bench (on both sides) like a door, bed frame (see pic, not sure if you can make it out but it was a pain to clamp it to the bench because the legs are not flush wit(the top) so it’s a trade off, the beauty of this thing is that I could always just glue more wood on to achieve the overhang at a later date if I really need it so for now we will just see how it goes. If I add overhang i could easily create some blocking to make up the difference in top overhang to leg but gona keep it simple for now.

434063


Is the base same width as the top or will you have overhang on the back? Just curious. Might make it easier to build the base first that way in case the top finished out slightly different width than expected.

[Jim Becker]

I doubt this will make my work any better and honestly it’s almost to fancy. I don’t plan on over doing it like I see most bench builds it’s a utilitarian thing to me.

Don't underestimate the value of a quality, sturdy bench and accoutrements relative to the work you will produce using it. Make that benchtop surface true and your joinery and assembly will improve in noticeable ways, if not visually, functionally as you are doing the work. I have zero regrets in making my recent benchtop upgrade for exactly that reason. I know it's flat. Flat is good. I had to use my CNC bed for that purpose with my previous benchtop!

[Mark e Kessler]

Well, about 120 hrs later she is almost done. Dead man and gap stop left, I will wait on the gap stop until I use it for a while. It’s 94” long and 26” deep and 35” tall.

https://www.instagram.com/kessler_woodworks/?hl=en

435539435540435541435542435543435544

[Tom Bain]

Looks fantastic Mark. The swing-out stool is next level!

[Jim Becker]

Wow...outstanding work on that bench! It looks great!

Time to put the first dents and dings in it! LOL :D :D :D

[Jeff Bartley]

Looks great Mark! Your Instagram page is cool too. If I may ask, what career change did you make?

[Jeff Ranck]

Looks really good!

[Rod Sheridan]

Looks fantastic Mark. The swing-out stool is next level!

Agreed Tom, that stool is pure genius, I'm going to see if one would work with my bench......Rod.

[Mark e Kessler]

Thanks Jim, as far as the first dent, check... the very first time i went to use the holdfast in the leg for real i missed on the first swing of the hammer...lol 435666


Wow...outstanding work on that bench! It looks great!

Time to put the first dents and dings in it! LOL :D :D :D

[Mark e Kessler]

Thanks Tom, I kinda was thinking the swing out stool was a little bit much but I like it!


Looks fantastic Mark. The swing-out stool is next level!

[Mark e Kessler]

Thanks, I originally went to school for furniture making then had a business building custom furniture and eventually architectural millwork, banks hospitals ect. I closed that down and worked at several other shops in many different capacities, I then when back to school for Mechanical engineering as an adult and since then have worked mostly in testing and validation, first at GE Aviation Metrology Lab and Engine test (mostly military, t700 Blackhawk and for a short time the f136 until it Had a fuel leak and fire in the test cell and then got cancelled).
I currently work in validation of industrial controls, temperature and motion controls at a very large injection molding company (we make the equipment not parts) I am the technical lead and have several validators, basically I am a project manager - I get paid to find problems and break stuff, what could be more fun? Well woodworking...lol


Looks great Mark! Your Instagram page is cool too. If I may ask, what career change did you make?

[Mark e Kessler]

Rod, I like it a lot more than I thought would. Before I finished the Roubo I had it on my old bench to figure out what height i wanted to mount it, I ended up mounting higher than recommend as I like to sit at the bench and review plans, sketch, use computer ect. The other thing is that my old bench had an overhang so when sitting it put you to close to the edge of the top, not terrible and is workable but now that I have it on the Roubo where the leg is flush with the top it is a lot better.


Agreed Tom, that stool is pure genius, I'm going to see if one would work with my bench......Rod.

[David Eisenhauer]

Hold up a minute there catfish - we blew right past "the first dent". You mean to tell me that you built that beautiful statement piece of a workbench and then missed the great big holdfast with your hammer? Something ain't right here, has to be a story behind this event. "Here, hold my beer and gimmee that hammer...........".

[Mark e Kessler]

Beer? Whats that, that couldn’t have been the case...



Hold up a minute there catfish - we blew right past "the first dent". You mean to tell me that you built that beautiful statement piece of a workbench and then missed the great big holdfast with your hammer? Something ain't right here, has to be a story behind this event. "Here, hold my beer and gimmee that hammer...........".

[Jim Becker]

Thanks Jim, as far as the first dent, check... the very first time i went to use the holdfast in the leg for real i missed on the first swing of the hammer...lol 435666


https://rgf05a.sn.files.1drv.com/y4mR1NzCLDE7H2vfsKM69f-4TkWtjoNa97O3T46da4UyCg_aS3JqOQNZN2Sqeb1BxdeqdWbcz K4YEOMMS00GCK4QngLAoSX85sJUmXqveq7KUZb038sa2uTBRyS YS9eOtqz2eLq1QQXEGNTJVwIOY-38mEvaKq35V38Wm_BeGrfqq0M6x-QAnA6BWzdt7F2zYp6Lxrp3S3ob4uhQKnti-Pb1A?width=314&height=425&cropmode=none

[Jerry Olexa]

Derek, love your bench.....

[Frank Necaise]

Mark very nice workbench be sure to post the first wood project you use it to create. The swing out stool seat is a great idea. Where did you get the hardware for it? I want to put one on my bench.

[Jamie Buxton]

Mark very nice workbench be sure to post the first wood project you use it to create. The swing out stool seat is a great idea. Where did you get the hardware for it? I want to put one on my bench.

It looks like the one from Benchcrafted. There are others out there; google with "swing-out seat" or "swing-out stool". You'll also find shop-built wooden ones, which are cool.

[Frederick Skelly]

My workbench is about 24 inches wide, because that's what's practical in my space. Mostly, it works fine but there are a fair number of times where several more inches really would be an advantage, most commonly when using the bench as a work surface to clamp up something like a door assembly or multi-board glue-up. Not infrequently these are right around two feet in width and longer in length, and so exceed the capacity of the bench after taking account of the extra couple inches needed each side to support the clamps. ...My ideal would be to skip the bench and do these operations on a big dedicated assembly table instead, but that's not an option for now.

David, do you have the option to use a wider "temporary" top - something wider that isnt permanently attached so it isnt always cramping your space? Maybe some sheetgoods cut down to 26-28" that you can take on/off at will? Just an idea anyway.

Fred

[Jim Becker]

A removable work surface that's large wouldn't be that hard to accomplish including having some pieces of thin stock to "index" it to the bench so it can't slide sideways while clamping up a project.

[Mark e Kessler]

Thanks Frank, the swing out stool hardware is Benchcrafted, it’s great!


Mark very nice workbench be sure to post the first wood project you use it to create. The swing out stool seat is a great idea. Where did you get the hardware for it? I want to put one on my bench.

[Mark e Kessler]

yea Derek, love your bench too...lol


Derek, love your bench.....