Jigs, general knowledge

[Tom Bussey]

I was watching a TV show produced by a woodworking entity and they referred to this and that as a jig. An example would be we built this jig to make it easier. I guess if one wants to sound authoritative, be the expert, have credibility, and be someone that should be listened to, then that someone should stop calling a dog a cat. I guess if I pointed to a chisel and called it a pointed thing-a - ma-jig I would hear about what it actually was in a big hurry.

Most of the ones reading this have learned to use the term either from hearing or reading when it was used incorrectly. And that is probably where the one who did the TV show learned it. I think it would be nice if the term was used correctly, so here is the correct definition.

A jig holds the work but guides the tool. An example is a dovetail jig and it doesn't matter if the router is hand held or mounted in a table the jig guides the tool.. A Kreg Jig is a jig because it guides the drill bit. If it doesn't guide the cutter then it isn't a jig. David Barron's magnetic dovetail jig is a jig because it locates and guides the saw, but his dovetail alignment board is not a jig but a fixture. The original Incra jig is not a jig but a positioner because it only registers the work piece to the cutter. But now they at least call it a positioner.

A fixture holds the work piece and registers it to the cutter but does not guide the cutter. An example would be finger joint fixture. It clamps the work , being with clamps or hands. It references the work in relation to the cutter (s)using the slots on the table saw if that is what is used. but the cutter is fixed. Even Inca calls it a Right-Angle Fixture when dealing with cutting finger joints or dovetails.

The full definition can be found it the Machinist Handbook.

[Mel Fulks]

Tom, I always enjoy these word things. Just looked it up in the Oxford, and it has a number of slightly different uses.
I do agree that within a specific trade it is necessary to demand all use the same terms.

[Frank Pratt]

Using correct terminology is important to clearly and accurately convey ideas. Thanks for posting this.

[glenn bradley]

I too like to be fairly concise when describing something. It can sometimes be a fine line to walk without becoming pedantic. Many of us, due to our professions or even just our character can tend to be pretty literal and overly specific. I'm one of those guys that if you ask me "What color is that house on the hill?" I will say something like "It's white on this side." I have been asked if I was Sheldon Cooper's dad more than once :). Thanks for posting this as I must confess that although I use the terms fixture, jig, carrier, etc. I am probably pretty loose with them. I am going to pay more attention as I go along and see if I can't help sow the seeds of correct terminology.

[Andy D Jones]

A dovetail "jig" that is used with a router table is not a jig, but a fixture, by your own definition of the terms. It registers the location/movement of the work piece to the fixed cutter.

Is this not the same distinction you made with a finger joint fixture on a table saw?

Virtually any accessory used on a table saw would be a fixture, even though the almost universal term for a tenoning accessory for the table saw is a jig.

There comes a time when misuse of a term has been propagated long enough that to correct it is to confuse, rather than to enlighten. Are we there yet, with some of our favorite woodworking accessories?

-- Andy - Arlington TX

[Osvaldo Cristo]

I was watching a TV show produced by a woodworking entity and they referred to this and that as a jig. An example would be we built this jig to make it easier. I guess if one wants to sound authoritative, be the expert, have credibility, and be someone that should be listened to, then that someone should stop calling a dog a cat. I guess if I pointed to a chisel and called it a pointed thing-a - ma-jig I would hear about what it actually was in a big hurry.

Most of the ones reading this have learned to use the term either from hearing or reading when it was used incorrectly. And that is probably where the one who did the TV show learned it. I think it would be nice if the term was used correctly, so here is the correct definition.

A jig holds the work but guides the tool. An example is a dovetail jig and it doesn't matter if the router is hand held or mounted in a table the jig guides the tool.. A Kreg Jig is a jig because it guides the drill bit. If it doesn't guide the cutter then it isn't a jig. David Barron's magnetic dovetail jig is a jig because it locates and guides the saw, but his dovetail alignment board is not a jig but a fixture. The original Incra jig is not a jig but a positioner because it only registers the work piece to the cutter. But now they at least call it a positioner.

A fixture holds the work piece and registers it to the cutter but does not guide the cutter. An example would be finger joint fixture. It clamps the work , being with clamps or hands. It references the work in relation to the cutter (s)using the slots on the table saw if that is what is used. but the cutter is fixed. Even Inca calls it a Right-Angle Fixture when dealing with cutting finger joints or dovetails.

The full definition can be found it the Machinist Handbook.

Interesting a such common misinformation for even native English spoken persons. I wasn´t aware of such distinction in the English language up to a couple of years when Willian Ng stressed it in one of his (excellent) educational videos in you tube (link here (https://youtu.be/pUoEPgcqUFc)).

I had no idea it was so common mistake.

[Steve Wurster]

The English language doesn't really have a standards body; it is defined by its usage. Contrast this with French, where the Académie Française is considered the "authority" on the language (at least in France). All that to say, the words jig and fixture can almost certainly be used interchangeably, and it's probably not a stretch to say one will completely replace the other at some point. If you're working in your shop and tell someone that you need to make or use a jig, and they reply with, "Don't you mean a fixture?", you'll probably just give them a "Yeah, whatever." response coupled with a tight smile and nod.

That William Ng video is interesting. He does provide the standard definitions for jig and fixture, and then says he's going to make a fixture. About 7 seconds later he says the phrase, "Before we rush out to the shop, and start making and cutting our jig..." Wait, William, which is it?

[Tom Bussey]

I was referring to leigh dovetail jig that the wood is stood up and the fingers still guid the tool. And yes you are correct that accessories on a tablesaw are called jig but just because it is called a tenoning jig doesn't make it a jig. At least incra stopped calling theirs a jig and are now called a positioner. This post wasn't meant to change the world if you say a tenoning jig everyone will know what you are talking about. right or wrong that is what it is called and everyone will know exactly what you are talking about.

If you were to build something to help hold something during assembly, I commonly hear I built this jig to hold the part for assembly. Well Hello, it is not a jig, if it holds then it is a fixture, why not be correct. I am just giving general information and yes sometimes it is walking a fine line. I taught Tool and Die post secondary ( community college) for ten years so I think I would know the difference between a jig and a fixture. So just take it for what it is worth, most people won't know the difference or learn the difference because they were taught incorrectly in the first place and won't change.

[Zachary Hoyt]

I guess I don't use either word. I have a few things that I have made to use for specific jobs, but I call them by their names, like the heel cutter, for instance.

[Nathan Johnson]

My cat is a fixture in my shop.
She does not hold my work or guide my tools.

The jig is up, Taz!

[Mel Fulks]

The Oxford English Dictionary is the standard for the English language. Many labored over it for a long time. Much better
than a capricious "board". There are words that over time have changed or been used inaccurately. The Oxford even
reports the mistakes of writers of note. You will find good info on the word origins. You look up a word that doesn't seem to fit in ; then reach for the Oxford and see "criptoenight" : used inaccurately by Jim Olsen to mean: Kryptonite : fragments of Krypton harmful to Superman."

[Andy D Jones]

The Leigh dovetail jig for router tables holds the work and engages the fixed guide bearing or bushing on the router table, just like a tenoning fixture holds the work and engages the fixed miter slot or rip fence on the table saw...

I find such a differentiation between jig and fixture for these two examples simultaneously arbitrary and entertaining.

-- Andy - Arlington TX

[Jim Becker]

I'm often somewhat of a stickler for vocabulary usage and grammar, but I also acknowledge that "common usage" still comes into play, especially with the English language. A great many of us likely use the words "jig" and "fixture" interchangeably, despite the definitions spelled out in this thread. It's good to discuss this, however, as there is always something to learn!

[Rod Sheridan]

I'm often somewhat of a stickler for vocabulary usage and grammar, but I also acknowledge that "common usage" still comes into play, especially with the English language. A great many of us likely use the words "jig" and "fixture" interchangeably, despite the definitions spelled out in this thread. It's good to discuss this, however, as there is always something to learn!

Jim, I was going to start teasing you that an American, discussing the English language is an oxymoron, however I'm Canadian, and my wife is English so apparently a Canadian discussing the English language is also an oxymoron, or maybe a moron? Hard to tell with her accent.:D

Regards, Rod.
\

[Bruce Wrenn]

Would someone hand me that thingmafixture.

[Andy D Jones]

How's that saying go? "England and USA: two countries separated by a common language."
-- Andy - Arlington TX

[Bruce Wrenn]

How's that saying go? "England and USA: two countries separated by a common language."
-- Andy - Arlington TXGeorge Patton, Circa 1946

[Steve Wurster]

George Patton, Circa 1946

Patton died in 1945. That quote however is often attributed to George Bernard Shaw, but it's never found in any of his works.

[Edwin Santos]

George Patton, Circa 1946


Patton died in 1945. That quote however is often attributed to George Bernard Shaw, but it's never found in any of his works.

I've also heard it (or a variation of it) attributed to Oscar Wilde

[johnny means]

It's ironic that I'm reading this on a telephone connected to the web.

[Jared Sankovich]

Amusingly only groups I've heard the instance on correct usage from has been machinists and fabricators.

[Pete Staehling]

When a usage becomes common enough among competent practitioners it can become the accepted usage or at least an accepted usage. The question is when that is or isn't the case. There can also be a regional factor.

[Mel Fulks]

Can't resist noting a great Oxford moment. Years ago I was reading the journal of the French Jesuit ,Charlevoix who was
exploring North America. He
mentioned some kind of animal I had never heard of, or didn't think would be where he was. Can't remember what it was.
But part of the Oxford definition said the name was used incorectly by Charlevoix, and then said what the guy was
really describing ! It's a marvelous work.

[Dave Mount]

When I was in graduate school, one of the staff and I replumbed a big water treatment system for the aquatic lab. As we worked, we developed an alternate name for every tool we used (different sizes of pipe wrenches, pipe cutter, pipe threader, etc.). It started with "Hand me that whatsit", and grew until every tool had an off-label name, but they were unique to each tool. "Hand me the whatsit -- no, not the thingamabob, the whatsit." I'm editing to clean it up a little, several of the names were R rated. We laughed and laughed about our growing terminology. Shared misery I guess. . .

[Mel Fulks]

"Shared misery ,I guess. " Makes me think of "perhaps someday these things will be a pleasure to recall " Glad you
made it !