Tips on buying rough lumber

[Jason Winterrowd]

I have always purchased s4s lumber for projects but I am going to buy rough lumber for some cabinet frames and door frames for a project. I have a 6 inch jointer, planer, and track saw. What are some tips for buying boards that will minimize waste? Thank you!

[Matt Day]

If you need 10 bdft of finished material, buy 20 bdft of rough lumber to ensure you have enough, that accounts for waste and cutting errors
Just with S4S, make sure you aight down the board and pick the straightest material you can.
I try not to buy one really wide board and rip it into 5 skinnier boards. The wood tends to react and warp. So buy material that’s close to your final size, or double to get two boards.
Watch for checking.
Bring a block plane and ask the staff if they mind if you take a shaving off each board to get a better idea of its color.
If you need to, bring a saw to cut to length if you’re squeezing it into a car.

That’s what I have off the top of my head.

[Bob Andre]

Hi Jason
In many ways buying using rough lumber is similar to using s4s. Avoid cups, bows, knots, checks and other defects or at least determine how you can work around them. How dry is the lumber? I mill and dry my own lumber, but here in Western NY the best you will achieve is 12-13%. A moisture meter would be very helpful here and plan on drying further in your shop to get to the desired moisture. For me a week or two can be all I need along with careful prep. Assure that the lumber is clean to keep your tools sharp, but a greyed out surface may hold a beautiful face underneath. You could take a block plane or knife to check this out. You will have the luxury of choosing the thickness you want to achieve but remember that getting there may cost some shavings and thickness so plan accordingly. Your track saw will be great for straight lines, but your 6" jointer will limit width unless you break out the handplanes. For me rough sawn is the way to go and has multiple advantages.
Good luck and enjoy the freedom,
Bob

[ChrisA Edwards]

I've bought two batches of rough sawn lumber and milled it to size using my jointer, planer, tablesaw and bandsaw.

I was fortunate to have a large lumber distribution warehouse, close by, that would sell to the general public at a minimum order level, $200 at that time. They've since changed their policy and now I still buy from them but through a third party.

So call around a few places and and see what lumber they carry and whether they will actually sell to you.

The warehouse, when I bought both batches of mine, did not allow you to pick and select the boards. They showed me the stack of lumber, in the warehouse, to make sure that was what I wanted, and then just brought it out to my truck on a forklift. And you get a bit more than you request, although you still pay the for quantity that give you. I guess they estimate the lumber bd/ft based on cubic capacity, so in my case I ended up with boards all about the same length and thickness but widths varying from about 5" to 14". You may also get quite a few boards that vary in width so you may not get a full length piece of a width that minimizes waste.

Most of the time, I could get the rough sawn saw marks out by removing about 1/8" overall thickness, but I found a few boards required more where there were signs of strapping or some other mechanical method used to process the wood.

I built in about 10% more than the estimate of what I needed and this seemed to work out pretty good with minimal left over.

It's a cool feeling getting a truck bed full of rough sawn lumber and then comparing it to the finished product.

Hope this helps.

[Nike Nihiser]

In addition to what the others have said, look for insect invasion(damage). Especially little holes if it's freshly milled, could be PPB (powder post beetles). I also see you're from western Ohio as am I. There's a lot of rough sawn lumber for sale on Craigslist. I've bought a lot, met some really nice people. I've never paid more than $2.50 a BDFT, mostly white Oak, walnut and curly maple. Good luck

[Ron Citerone]

I'll stick to your post about wood for cabinet frames and door frames. I am assuming you have a vender that let's you pick your boards. I would say start by considering the frame width's. 6" wide boards would work with your jointer, but if your frame width is 2" that creates a problem since you will not get 3 rips of 2". If your stiles and rails are 1 1/2" than 6" would be nice. If you are considering matching color, look at lengths and widths that will allow a complete face frame from the same board. If the boards have knots, measure from the ends to the knot and see if that makes for a lot of waste considering the lengths you need. For face frames I would not worry about grain direction. For doors you want quarter sawn or as straight grain as possible and wood that starts out flat in the rough. If you have cash and some storage space by some extra. It will get used sooner or later.

Read all the post here and you will gain insight from people who have learned along the way.

My 2 pennies, good luck!

[Mark Daily]

There’s some good information here. I buy all my wood here.

https://www.woodworkerssource.com/

[Matthew Hills]

Avoid twist.

Bring a cutlist so that you know what you need to get. Anything that needs to be especially thick, long, wide will need to select specific material. And good to plan out your show surfaces when buying the raw lumber, as well.

Buy extra -- this allows you some flexibility in selecting boards and arrangement for matching grain.
Expect to have waste (plan to cut around things like checks / knots / wane)

I'd recommend milling in two stages. The second milling is to correct for any movement after the first. Hopefully not much.

Matt

[Jim Becker]

One thing you can do, too, is to look for skip planed material which will show you the board a little better than fully rough but is not processed to S4S, letting you work out how best to create your component parts and mill them. Not all lumber providers have it, however. In lieu of that, what Matthew mentions about taking a little bit off first to 'see what you got' is always a good practice with rough lumber. You'll want to sticker that for a day or three before you proceed to final milling when you can for best stability. One thing I always do is take a small block plane with me when I'm getting material as it helps insure I get boards that are compatible in color and general grain pattern...but you ALWAYS ask the seller first if they are ok with you hitting a small spot with that block plane before doing it. ;)

[Matthew Hills]

There’s some good information here. I buy all my wood here.

https://www.woodworkerssource.com/

That "Project Planner Worksheet" looks like a handy tool (if I were that organized)

Matt

[Bruce Lowekamp]

I think you've gotten great advice. If you like using a couple species more than others, I'd think about buying more than you need. You'll use it for your next project anyway and having more will let you be a bit more careful about picking out the right pieces as you go, without trying to work out your full cutlist while you're buying. It's always nice to have some decent lumber around for small projects, and you can always use some soft maple or poplar for things like drawer sides and to machine test pieces before you commit with the cherry/curly maple/etc.

Bruce

[John K Jordan]

...One thing I always do is take a small block plane with me when I'm getting material as it helps insure I get boards that are compatible in color and general grain pattern...but you ALWAYS ask the seller first if they are ok with you hitting a small spot with that block plane before doing it. ;)

Ha! One local exotic wood dealer would not let me shave even a 1/4" spot of the weathered grey surface to see the color on some 8/4 Tarara (Canary) I was considering buying. I saw a few years later he was going out of business.

[William Hodge]

I have always purchased s4s lumber for projects but I am going to buy rough lumber for some cabinet frames and door frames for a project. I have a 6 inch jointer, planer, and track saw. What are some tips for buying boards that will minimize waste? Thank you!


Look at how the lumber is stored and handled. I know of one rough lumber retailer that has a crushed rock in the yard, and the wind blows fine rock dust on to all the lumber. At another place that went out of business, customers who didn't know any better would take lumber out of the racks, and stack it on the concrete floor, mashing grit into the faces.

Buying retail rough lumber usually requires being ready to really dig through the pile, pull a lot of wood out, and carefully check all faces for unacceptable problems. Having a junk power plane handy in the shop lets you clean up gritty wood before you mill it.

[jim sauterer]

I live near Hopkins airport.i don’t know where in western Ohio you are.i bought some rough lumber at Yoder lumber in Berlin Ohio.all in all pretty happy.paid a little extra and they hit skip plane and straight line rip cut

[lowell holmes]

Check for lumberyards in your area. I am in Galveston County Texas and have lots of choices in the Houston area.

Go by a construction site and inquire about yards in your area.

Google "Lumber Yards" and see what pops up.

[Cliff Polubinsky]

Jason,

Don't know where in Western Ohio you are but I've been happy with Seifker Sawmill near Elida, just a little west of Findlay. They'll let you pick through the stacks and help you pull what you want. Take a flashlight because the storage area doesn't have the best light.

Cliff

[George Bokros]

I live near Hopkins airport.i don’t know where in western Ohio you are.i bought some rough lumber at Yoder lumber in Berlin Ohio.all in all pretty happy.paid a little extra and they hit skip plane and straight line rip cut

Jim, I am south east of Cleveland. I have purchased from Yoder also but found a great place in Middlefield, Bylers Kiln Drying. Most stock is partially planed so you can see grain and color. 4/4 is usually ~15/16 so easily finished to 3/4. Price is a little higher than Yoder but it is closer for me at least and the partially planed is awesome for color and grain. I believe it is also straight line ripped.

[glenn bradley]

It takes a while to start looking at material for the parts it will yield instead of looking at the board as an end-all entity unto itself. If the board has the drawer fronts I want and I end up with scrap for no-show parts or other small projects it is a win-win.

[Jim Andrew]

There are more bandmills being bought and put into use all over the country, including urban areas. I bought mine 15 years ago, and now there are several in my neighborhood. Have set up a solar dryer in a insulated container, using solar panels and a furnace blower, now am building a solar kiln. See adds on Craigslist for lumber for sale, including S4S. My plan was just to supply my own needs, but will have a semi load left when I am gone.

[Ole Anderson]

My local mill (Armstrong) will face and mill to thickness very reasonably while I wait (and help). I have them leave it 1/16" over my final thickness. It saves a lot of work and wear and tear on my Delta lunchbox planer. Not to mention the issue of reducing by a factor of 4 the amount of chips I have to deal with. Their pricing on straight line ripping isn't as good, and I would have to wait for that, so I deal with that myself. Before trying to edge joint your boards, cut closer to finish length and it will be a lot less passes through the jointer.

If you are not too far from Michigan, it might be worth a trip to Armstrong Millworks, good people, but cash or checks only. https://armstrongmillworks.com/
http://armstrongmillworks.com/woodtypes.aspx

[Tom Bussey]

I buy from a local small sawmill and the wood is kiln dried and skip planned to around 15/16. What I look for is the application I am going to use it on. I tend to prefer riff sawn wood for stiles and rails. Even if the boards are flat sawn there are boards that are going to have more riff sawn areas than other. I know I will get a lot of stacik about this but I was watching a you tube video and the guy was complaining about the board closing up at the back and overloading the saw and tripping it. And that was after he spent much time getting then perfectly straight. Well wood grows with stress in it and one can also get kiln dried wood that is case hardened so I tend to figure a bout a 20% scrap rate and I cut my pieces about 1/4 inch wider than I need and an inch or two longer and then let the board set a few days and that lets the molecules move to where they want to and also helps it to acclimate to the surrounding ares as far as moisture content goes. Then I start flattening and straightening and so on.

So I don't buy wood to fit my jointer or planner. If you buy a board 5 inches wide and you need two pieces 2 wide and the board is cupped you end up with more wood to work with if the board is cut in half Buy the time all the edges bet machined you will use up the 20% and a thin kerf saw blade will not save you any wood because what is left will be thrown away.

Buy the wood to fit the project and buy a couple extra because of color match.

[Robert Engel]

If buying air dried lumber direct from a sawmill, the first thing I check for is evidence of beetle damage. Easily overlooked. Look for bits of sawdust.

[John K Jordan]

There are more bandmills being bought and put into use all over the country, including urban areas. I bought mine 15 years ago, and now there are several in my neighborhood. Have set up a solar dryer in a insulated container, using solar panels and a furnace blower, now am building a solar kiln. See adds on Craigslist for lumber for sale, including S4S. My plan was just to supply my own needs, but will have a semi load left when I am gone.

When I set up my Woodmizer, also about 15 years or so ago, I started getting logs and sawing a lot. I used a lot for barn/shed siding, purlins, etc. I ended up with stacks and stacks of wood air drying, far more than I could use. I started giving it away and still let a lot go to waste - I have a bunch of cherry in the barn loft now, no PPB damage.

Now, I mostly saw when putting up a new building or if someone brings logs we cut them up for woodturning. 8/4 to 12/4 slabs are nice for that! The problem is storage space. I guess I could sell wood but I'm not sure I want a job.

JKJ

[Jason Winterrowd]

Wow I did not expect so many responses. Thank you all for the tips and advice. I live close to Frank Miller lumber in union city Indiana. I buy most of my plywood there and they have a good selection of lumber also. I think they skip plane everything in their retail store. Thanks again!!!!

[Jim Andrew]

John, my plan this spring was to buy a aluminum high cube 48 foot container, and move my dried lumber into that. Vertical on one side for shorter lengths, and stacks on the other side for the longer boards. But this covid thing hit, and price of cattle has dropped into the toilet so that plan is on hold.

[Todd Solomon]

There’s some good information here. I buy all my wood here.

https://www.woodworkerssource.com/

Thanks for the info Mark. I priced it out to ship to CA, and it adds roughly $3 per board foot for the order I had quoted. This depends on quantity purchased of course.

Question- have you ever had them pick the boards and ship to you? If so, what was the quality of the boards and the service?

Thanks,

Todd

[Mark Daily]

That "Project Planner Worksheet" looks like a handy tool (if I were that organized)

Matt

Im usually only that organized when somebody else is paying for some really expensive wood, lol!

[Joe Wood]

My tip is,

double check for staples before you start planing it down!

[Mark Daily]

Thanks for the info Mark. I priced it out to ship to CA, and it adds roughly $3 per board foot for the order I had quoted. This depends on quantity purchased of course.

Question- have you ever had them pick the boards and ship to you? If so, what was the quality of the boards and the service?

Thanks,

Todd

Todd, I live about 20 minutes away so I drive over and pick out all my lumber. In reading the online reviews, most are very positive about the quality of the wood selected and shipped as well as the packaging.

They have a good crew of really helpful people working there so I think they will take care of any problems that you might encounter.

Of course, I would only buy from there if you can’t get it locally as the shipping does add up.

One service that I always use is straight-lining one edge. That gives me one edge that is straight the entire length of the board so I don’t have to do it myself. Well worth the cost which is $.25/bd. ft. I think it should be per linear foot but I’m not the boss.

[Jim Dwight]

I find it hard to face joint boards and get them really flat and still have enough thickness left. twist is one reason why. So I like to cut to rough length and width to minimize the distortion I have to remove with the jointer. Wide boards for the tops of projects or other large areas that will be fastened into the piece are not normally face jointed in my shop. They just get run through the planner. Gluing up the top flattens them some and fastening into the project finishes it.

I would rather buy wood with a few knots or other flaws at a good price than completely clear at a significantly higher price. In my area(SC) I found cherry for $10/bd ft (planned) to $3.50/bd ft. The cheaper material had a few flaws but not many. I would expect to pay $5/bd ft for clear cherry.

When I find good wood at a good price I buy extra. Sometimes it isn't really extra if I have problems. I do not but narrow wood when I want narrow pieces if it's the same price. It is terribly easy to rip a piece out of a wider board. Some places charge more for wider boards. In that case, I would buy narrower pieces if that is what I need. I pick wood based upon the color and grain, not the width.

[Bill Dufour]

I can no longer find old growth clear heart redwood for sale. To get some fine grained knot free boards I have to risk chipping jointer blades and use old wood from old houses which may have nails. The economics of paying more for good wood vs sharpening more often has to be considered.
Can you buy chestnut lumber back east? Where can they buy old growth oak trees to rebuild Notre Dame? It was hard to find that much good wood when it was built.
Bill D.

https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/photo/cross-section-of-coastal-redwood-tree-big-high-res-stock-photography/139820645