Jointer Dust Flange Design

[Sean Leonard]

I have to replace the dust flange on an old SCM 16" jointer. No idea where the original one went. Anyway, I couldn't find anything off the shelf so I had Nordfab design one using the measurements I provided them. This is what they sent back. I was expecting more of a downward-sloping "funnel" design rather than a flate plate with a 4" nipple (7-inch diameter) welded to it, but didn't specify that. I guess I figured they were the ducting "pro's" and would know what a good design would be.

What are your thoughts on the effectiveness of this flange as designed? Does the funnel design that I more commonly see help with the suction or CFM? I foresee a lot of buildup of debris on the inside of the flat area on this one.

They're charging about $90 for this, so I'm afraid to see what the addition of more material and labor would add.

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[Dave Sabo]

They're a bit cheeky with the price. They aren't even doing a full weld on that, and are using cheap standard caulk. Seems like they're telling you they can't be bothered.


If that's the design , no need for those guys. Grab some 1/4" ply and 4 or 5 or better yet a 6" quick connect fitting and make your own. Less than an hour fab time and under 20 bucks in material.

[Erik Loza]

You definitely want a funnel. Nordfab is a good company but they design ducting systems, not machine fittings. I can see a huge bottleneck at the shoulders of that flange. You could be better off getting some thin-gauge metal, a rivet gun, and making the "cone" yourself. Just my 2-cents. Good luck with it.

Erik

[Matt Day]

The Nordfab team monkey got that job.

As said, a piece of plywood and a fitting would work just the same. And that $90 is the “design” fee I’m guessing, not the actual fitting.

For my Oliver 399, I found (with the help of someone I found online) a Grizzly hood that fit with some minor modification. You might find something similar from another maker like Grizzly.

[Phil Gaudio]

I am wondering: is there no way to make the dust shroud used on current SCM/Minimax machines work? They look roughly something like this, and should be available through SCM spare parts.

[Erik Loza]

I am wondering: is there no way to make the dust shroud used on current SCM/Minimax machines work? They look roughly something like this, and should be available through SCM spare parts.

Phil, that's hilarious: I actually took that photograph in (probably) 2005. It's a Minimax FS35 Smart. Where did you find it, if I can ask?

To answer your question, ordering one of those is a possibility too.

Erik

[Phil Gaudio]

Ha: too lazy to run out to the shop and take a pic of my FS41E, so I did a quick web search and came up with this most excellent photo! It was on machines4u.com.au of all places.


Phil, that's hilarious: I actually took that photograph in (probably) 2005. It's a Minimax FS35 Smart. Where did you find it, if I can ask?

To answer your question, ordering one of those is a possibility too.

Erik

[Bill Dufour]

For that money i would ask a local sheetmetal or heating company to bend up something. If it was 6" a floor boot would work. Or make a pyramid out of plywood.
Hire a kid to print one for you. Probably have to make it in two parts to fit inside the printer machine. Can the 3D printed parts be glued? at least they can be heat welded for sure.
Bill D

[David Utterback]

I made a modified take off for my 8" Jet joiner that is just a piece of plywood with a something like this https://www.rockler.com/dust-right-combo-port. Dawdling away in my shop the other day and moved my joiner. I was amazed at the amount of debris that there was under it. It was probably 2" deep.

My point is that the shape of the take off is important for good performance and the Norfab drawing is not good for your needs. The cheap way is to use the 6" floor boot as suggested by Bill. A sheet metal shop would be even better since they can make it from your specs. I just don't know how expensive that might be. Good luck!

[John C Bush]

I would head to the Borg--with mask on--and see what is available in off the shelf HVAC duct fittings. I used a floor register adapter for my old Parks 12"er and with plywood got a good result. Upgraded to a used Grizz 20" planer and bought the matching/missing shroud. It cost ~$65 and had taper angles similar to the HVAC stuff. The Grizz part is well made with heavier gauge metal but a ~$10 Borg special would have worked if I wanted to futz with it. Reasonable to make if OEM is too pricey. Good luck. JCB

[Bill Dufour]

I really do not understand all this worry about airflow for a intake. It seems to me their design would funnel out to cover all the intake if there is 1-2 feet of room upstream. Why worry if sawdust builds up in the non flow areas.

I suppose you could make one like theirs and mount it. Run the machine until enough dust has packed into all the unused spaces. Then carefully remove the ductwork and spray all the sawdust with glue until it can be removed in one solid piece. Then use that sawdust funnel to make a mold of plaster. Then fiberglass into the mold. It will be exactly the shape of the airflow with no guess work and aproximations.
Bill D

[Erik Loza]

I really do not understand all this worry about airflow for a intake. It seems to me their design would funnel out to cover all the intake if there is 1-2 feet of room upstream. Why worry if sawdust builds up in the non flow areas.

Well, it's planer chips, which are totally different than table saw sawdust. Design really does matter in this case. You want to keep exhaust velocity as high as possible and no right angles. On the odd occasion when I've run the planer without a dust collector hooked up, which I guess would be like having an extreme version of this design that looks like a cornhole board, the machine spits a ton of chips back onto the workpiece and clogs the snorkel almost immediately. Just my experience.

Erik

[Mark e Kessler]

Go to a local sheet metal shop And have it fabricated like Bill suggested I had several welded up for me over the years on a jointer and a j/p, unfortunately long gone so no photos... also funnel, smooth transitions are best...

Mk

[Patrick Kane]

So i have a hack's version of their design(made with 1/2" ply and 6" HVAC fitting) on my 20" jointer, and i can tell you the lack of a funnel compromises collection. I get a considerable amount of buildup along the sides of the jointer interior before the inlet. My setup works well enough and cost me $6, but if you are spending $100, might as well do it right. Really, if i wanted to do it right, i would extend the DC point up as close to the cutterhead as possible. As it stands, shavings slide down a 2' ramp before my inlet.

[Jim Becker]

Well, it's planer chips, which are totally different than table saw sawdust. Design really does matter in this case. Y

This right here is the crux of the issue...the nature of the shavings that come off the material that's being jointed (or planed in the case of a thicknesser function) as they behave differently than the tiny chips that come off a saw blade, etc. The funnel design is critical as it transitions air flow from a narrow, rectangular port at the cutter head to an appropriately sized port to the duct work, maintaining the same area relative to air volume, etc. Even a properly designed hood can sometimes get clogged up with certain cuts in certain wood species!

[David Utterback]

Following up on my comment. Had I been joining a lot of wood, the accumulation could have covered the motor. The stand does not have a bottom. Thinking more about this, I have way too low collection volume and the chips are large and have irregular shape which increases drag. I need to get that cyclone that has been on my wish list for far too long!

[Ryan Yeaglin]

What you are looking for is a offset square to round. Any metal fab shop should be able to handle this, HVAC shops don't usually deal with dust collection and make fittings for blown air, so there would be hang ups. I'm a journeyman sheet metal mechanic, but work in industrial fabrication. A flat plate will work, it really depends on how much CFM your duct collector is pulling. Also if you plan on having a fab shop make you a fitting, provide them with a drawing of what your after. Attached is a something I came up with quick. I had to use paint since, I don't have CAD at home.

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[Darcy Warner]

I have made several large planer dust hoods. All you really need to know is size of square part, diameter of hook up and height. It's simple math from there. Just need snips and a half way decent way of making ok bends.

[Andy D Jones]

Following up on my comment. Had I been joining a lot of wood, the accumulation could have covered the motor. The stand does not have a bottom. Thinking more about this, I have way too low collection volume and the chips are large and have irregular shape which increases drag. I need to get that cyclone that has been on my wish list for far too long!

If you are expecting that adding a cyclone separator to your existing dust collector will increase suction/flow, that will not happen (except in the case where it keeps your filter from getting clogged as quickly). Cyclones incur a pressure drop in the process of whirling all that air around to sling the dust out of it.

If you are seeking permission to purchase a new dust collector with matched cyclone separator, then permission granted!

-- Andy - Arlington TX

[Tom Dixon]

Try getting a quote from The Blastgate Company. Go to their square to round page. https://www.blastgateco.com/Spiral-Wyes-Tees-Square.php
I had them make me a right angle square to round 6" fitting. I did a Sketchup drawing of what I wanted and then they sent back a different drawing in their cad system that gave them bends that were achievable. I modified what they sent and they agreed they could make it.
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[Jim Andrew]

I made my own square to round adapter for my WB sander, just took a piece of thin sheet metal, marked the square on one edge, bent the square only about 1 1/2" on that end, then wrapped the other end around a piece of 6" pipe. Put a couple pop rivets in it to hold its shape, then squared the ends with my snips. Has worked well for years now.

[Sean Leonard]

Glad my instincts told me not to pull the trigger on the Nordfab hood. I know they do ducting, but you'd think they know a thing or two about best practices for connecting to their systems. The DC is a clear vue Pentz EF5, 8" intake, about 1900 CFM. Thanks for the suggestions...and for the drawing Ryan. I'll draw something up in sketchup and pay a visit to a local fab shop to make something up for me.

[Malcolm McLeod]

Glad my instincts told me not to pull the trigger on the Nordfab hood. I know they do ducting, but you'd think they know a thing or two about best practices for connecting to their systems. The DC is a clear vue Pentz EF5, 8" intake, about 1900 CFM. Thanks for the suggestions...and for the drawing Ryan. I'll draw something up in sketchup and pay a visit to a local fab shop to make something up for me.

How did you deal with the 9* inlet?

[Sean Leonard]

I had Nordfab make a custom 9 degree elbow. The duct runs straight out of the intake to about 9ft and then turns level there.

[Malcolm McLeod]

I had Nordfab make a custom 9 degree elbow. The duct runs straight out of the intake to about 9ft and then turns level there.

Thanks. That is the method I'm leaning towards, but not sure yet who or even IF someone would make a 9* elbow for this transition back to horizontal.

Back-up plan is (was) a straight run to near the ceiling, then a pair of hose adapters and 4-6" length of flex hose to get horizontal. I also considered a pair of 90* ELs, but cringe at the turbulence & performance loss so close to the cyclone inlet.

[Jim Becker]

With metal duct, an adjustable elbow can easily be manipulated to any odd and small angle and then sealed. At that point in the system, any disruption of air flow will be minimal, especially with that size duct work.

[Malcolm McLeod]

With metal duct, an adjustable elbow can easily be manipulated to any odd and small angle and then sealed. At that point in the system, any disruption of air flow will be minimal, especially with that size duct work.

Unfortunately, I have not found adjustable elbows compatible with Nordfab or 'Clamp Together' ducting.

[Walter Plummer]

I made this one about 15 years ago.431585431586 It has worked well.

[Jim Becker]

Unfortunately, I have not found adjustable elbows compatible with Nordfab or 'Clamp Together' ducting.
You can use the adapters that slip into non-Nordfab duct to make the adjustable elbow compatible. I use them for quick connect drops in my shop while all my duct work is snaplock.

[David Utterback]

I made this one about 15 years ago.431585431586 It has worked well.

Can't imagine any other design would be much better. Nice job!

[Malcolm McLeod]

You can use the adapters that slip into non-Nordfab duct to make the adjustable elbow compatible. I use them for quick connect drops in my shop while all my duct work is snaplock.

A thought, certainly. But, The Blastgate Co. will make a 9* El for $36, so ordered a few minutes ago.��

Building one would involve sheet metal work, and, umm....well, have I mentioned that I can sever a finger just picking my nose?

[Jim Becker]

A thought, certainly. But, The Blastgate Co. will make a 9* El for $36, so ordered a few minutes ago.��

Building one would involve sheet metal work, and, umm....well, have I mentioned that I can sever a finger just picking my nose?

That's a good price...you might suggest they make up several and stock them given it's something folks with that same system will be needing.

It occurs to me that folks with plastic duct, if they can find a LONG RADIUS elbow, could cut out a section to about the degree of bend they need and use sleeves to connect it to straight pipe. There are multiple ways to slay this beast!

[Phil Gaudio]

Here is jointer dust hood/shroud from SCM spare parts website ($76):

[Ole Anderson]

I would at least have expected them to use a bellmouth flange. https://www.ductstore.co.uk/acatalog/bell-mouth-pr.jpg

[Erik Loza]

Here is jointer dust hood/shroud from SCM spare parts website ($76):

For $76, you probably can't make one that nice. I'd just buy it and modify to fit.

Erik

[Sean Leonard]

For $76, you probably can't make one that nice. I'd just buy it and modify to fit.

Erik

Agreed. I wish SCM would put on the product info page some of the part specs and dimensions of the connection to the jointer. I could easily make something to adapt to the jointer, but just from looking at the picture the mouth of that hood looks awfully narrow for my machine.

SCM North America has sent photos of the jointer and serial number plate to SCM Italy to see if there is something they have that would work. I have other parts I want to get, like the pork chop guard that went MIA sometime in the last 40 years. Not sure if Italy is still on lockdown or not, but I'm not holding my breath on this angle. Still working to get a sheet metal fabricator to whip out something for me.

[Randall J Cox]

They're a bit cheeky with the price. They aren't even doing a full weld on that, and are using cheap standard caulk. Seems like they're telling you they can't be bothered.


If that's the design , no need for those guys. Grab some 1/4" ply and 4 or 5 or better yet a 6" quick connect fitting and make your own. Less than an hour fab time and under 20 bucks in material.

What Dave said. Thats what I did and attached with rare earth magnets and a thin gasket as I didn't want to drill holes to mount to my PM 60 8" jointer nor scratch the paint. I use 5" ducting to it and works great, been running that way for about 5 years now, no backup of material at all. Have 1.75 hp blower with 5" ducting to all machines. Randy

[Ronald Blue]

Wouldn't something like this be an option if your creating your own design?

thesheetmetalkid.com/register-boots/ph1-duct-boot/14x8x8-ph1-duct-register-boot-no-extension/ (http://thesheetmetalkid.com/register-boots/ph1-duct-boot/14x8x8-ph1-duct-register-boot-no-extension/)

[Bill Dufour]

Yoga mats are a cheap source of gasket material for attaching flanges etc.
Bill D

[Patrick Walsh]

Another option is a make a mold or form out of wood then wrap it with fiberglass. I’m about to do this for a under table port for my t23 shaper with carbon fiber.. As I type I’m actually wrapping the fence port I’m carbon fiber. If you made a mold and uses a material that would allow it to not stick you should be good and it should be easy as all this stuff is readily available online.

Time consuming but easy and I’m thinking a great result. Joe Calhoun I think know of a company I’m Connecticut that will bends up a nice one for you.