Keep or sell cabinet saw?

[Patrick Kane]

This pains me to start this thread because ive often been on the opposite side of this suggestion, but here it goes.

I currently have a Felder KF700 saw/shaper. 80" slider, which is a very odd length for a slider. It was used and at a good price, so it worked for me. I had a delta unisaw when i acquired the KF700, and kept it for a bit after getting the 700 hooked up and running. About a year and a half ago, i sold the unisaw and bought a beater PM72 that i stripped down and rehabbed. It is a good saw, but im wondering if its a great idea to have two large footprint saws in a 700+/- square foot basement workshop. What really kicked off this internal discussion was a local auction featuring a CAMaster Stinger II 4x4. It just so happens to occupy an identical footprint to the Powermatic 72. It made me wonder if i could live with the Felder as my only saw. This subject has come up before, and ive participated on the threads of guys getting a slider and thinking about selling their PM66's, sawstops, unisaws, and i always advocated for NOT selling the cabinet saw. Ideally, my question is for those who had both and sold the cabinet saw, did you later regret doing so? I dont think i would lose any functionality, it's just a matter of convenience and ease. I find the powermatic to be much easier to rip long hardwood. I also prefer it for narrow cuts. I used to make a fair amount of islands and countertops, and one 'edge grain' job would be enough to make me want to keep a cabinet saw around. Repetitive 1.75" rips out of 7-10' boards on an 80" slider isnt my idea of a good time. However, im getting away from whittling away free time on commissions and spending more time on personal projects.

Selling the PM would be a very solid down payment towards a used CNC. As a Plan B, im thinking i might be able to squeeze in a small 10" saw on the outfeed of the Felder. That area is somewhat of an underutilized and cluttered mess. It would be a tight fit with only a 12-15" rip capacity, but i think it would fit. Added bonus that i think the comatic feeder would be able to be used on that saw once it was flipped up. I almost need a saw to monkey around with it to see how it would fit and then how the infeed would work with the cyclone body about 6-7' behind it. It would have 10' to the wall on the infeed side.

[Bill Dufour]

"CAMaster Stinger II 4x" is that a vehicle or a tool of some kind?
Bill D

[Jim Becker]

Well...I love my Stinger II SR-44, so you probably know what my preference would be here! I also have a slider in my shop. The tools are complementary to what I do. I've never felt the need for a second table saw and my shop is similar in square feet to yours.

[Jim Becker]

"CAMaster Stinger II 4x" is that a vehicle or a tool of some kind?
Bill D

Like he said...it's a CNC. Identical to mine. :)

[Patrick Kane]

Yes, it’s a CNC! Funny enough, it also sounds like an ATV model or similar.

Ahh, Jim, I almost just PMed you instead of starting this thread. You are always the counter argument to my own opinion in these types of threads. However, I think you have an advantage to me with your 8-9’ slider. I am leaning that way right now, might be time to put up a tentative listing for the old 72. Somewhat of a shame, I put a ton of time and money into that saw.

[Kevin Jenness]

If you really want (need) a cnc then that answers your question. A cnc router has far more potential than an extra circular saw.

I don't see why long rips on your slider are a problem considering that you have an easily set up powerfeed. I make out fine with just a slider although an additional cabinet saw in the space I don't have would be nice.

[Phillip Mitchell]

What are you going to be using the CNC for?

I think my ideal shop has a large format slider and a cabinet saw for pretty much any situation, but that shop would be bigger than 700 sq ft with that arrangement of tooling.

What do you think you could realistically get for the PM72? It looks nice and sounds like you’ve treated it well, but they’re only worth so much even in primo condition.

[Bill Dufour]

Like he said...it's a CNC. Identical to mine. :)


Hey in my defense, it was down about a third of the page that he mentioned if he sold the saw he could use it as a down payment on a cnc. Not any particular type of cnc just a cnc. In woodworking CNC often means a router setup not. a vertical mill or lathe.
I really thought he was going to be buying a side by side with four wheel drive and it would be no bigger then the saw's footprint. My brother's Satoh 4x4 tractor would probably fit in there.

[Patrick Kane]

I certainly don’t ‘need’ a CNC router. I dabbled with a light one(NWA shark) last summer and it reminded me of my digi fab days at college. However, it was woefully underpowered, not stiff enough, not enough capacity. The list of grievances is long. They do clever things that would almost be impossible through conventional means, and I Wouldn’t mind dabbling with a real one. That is another discussion, at what price point do you get a machine with legitimate capabilities. I don’t know from personal experience, but I’m guessing I need to be in the $10K+ price point for a new 4x4 machine.

Philip, the saw has a cantilevered carriage support that makes traditional ripping awkward. On top of that, if I am ripping anything greater than 80” and the offcut is wider than 1/2”, then I need to remove the outrigger and crosscut fence. Is it that big of a deal? No, it’s not huge, but still, it’s a PITA. I prefer setting a fence, hitting a switch, and making sawdust within 5 seconds.

good question, I’m not sure what I could get for it. I’m guessing in the $2500-3000 range should be achievable with patience and the right buyer. Then again, maybe it’s something that sits for months? I spent 6 months searching for one with the 4’ CI extension wing. Motor was rebuilt to the tune of $3-400. VSCT fence with a 4’ long extrusion. 10” dado king with it. 12” Ridge carbide blade in great shape and about a year old. Would probably include the incra miter gauge too. Oh, shark guard splitter and shroud on top of it. I see beaters in the $1500-2000 range across the country without accessories, and I just rambled off about $1500 in extras. Never ideal to have the shiniest of pennies at the market though.

[Kevin Jenness]

Do you really have to remove the outrigger table for long rips? That is a PITA. On the sliders I have used removing the crosscut fence suffices and is quickly done. Not as fast as stepping up to the cabinet saw I grant you. Everything's a tradeoff in a small shop.

A new 4'x4' Camaster Stinger w/ no upgrades lists for $13k, kind of pricy for dabbling.

[Matt Day]

It’s really your call on the CNC. I’m assuming the auction hasn’t happened yet.

So first of all, what condition is it in? Is it new? All the accessories and parts there? Software up to date?

After that, If it were me I’d come up with a number at which I’d buy the CNC at auction then bid your max. If you get it for what you think is a good deal, then sell the 72. If not, keep the slider. I don’t know much about sliders but if really is poorly designed for what you want maybe you sell it?

Regarding the 72, you would probably get more money parting out the accessories and selling the saw bare bones. Might even sell the 4’ extension separately on OWWM. Finding a buyer that will give you the close to the same money as selling it separately would be tough i think.

$1500-$2000 tops for a 72, even in great condition. There are 2 in my area for sale with those price tags (probably not as good condition) that have been for sale for a year or so. I never want to be that seller - I want to price it to make it a fair deal for both seller and buyer and move it.

[Mark e Kessler]

I would dump the pm, the 80” slider is a challange but with the right setup you should be better off even with the “end grain job”. Everything is better on a slider, better yet sell the sllider, pm and buy at least a 9’ slider then think about getting a cnc - i know you weren’t asking for alternative idea’s but...

mk

[Jim Becker]

So first of all, what condition is it in? Is it new? All the accessories and parts there? Software up to date?
Camaster machines hold their value in the used market. Manufacturer technical support carries to every subsequent user, too. Software is also less of an issue because both WinCNC and the Vectric software can be updated at any time. The one challenge is with the Vectric CAD/CAM license. Only one transfer is permitted with software supplied by a CNC manufacturer, but in the scheme of things, even having to buy a new license isn't a huge investment compared to getting a CNC that sells new from $13-18K, depending on options.

[Jon Snider]

My choice, based on equipment which was very similar to yours, was to keep both as in pic below. But that depends on your anticipated use of a second table saw vs a CNC or something else. For me, building boats requiring long rips of relatively narrow gunwale and chine stock, I wasn’t comfortable doing it on the slider with the fence and the rips were sometimes too long for even my 10’ table. Since then I’ve also used my PM66 for dados and rabbets in the decking frames. YMMV.

430914

[Erik Loza]

430914

Awesome,

Erik

[Patrick Kane]

I would dump the pm, the 80” slider is a challange but with the right setup you should be better off even with the “end grain job”. Everything is better on a slider, better yet sell the sllider, pm and buy at least a 9’ slider then think about getting a cnc - i know you weren’t asking for alternative idea’s but...

mk

Funny enough, that was another consideration. Sell both and buy a 9' slider with possibly a separate shaper. Thats a decent amount of tool moving for not an enormous gain. I am in a walkout basement, but breaking things down and moving them through a single man door isnt a picnic. One day when i move and hopefully have a large open space to work in, then i will have a 10'+ slider. Probably something like a Felder 900 or maybe Martin T71/T72. Whatever the right deal is at that point in time. Point being, the next and final saw will be a model that isnt easily broken down to fit through a 33" door. The prospect of that 'one day move' is what prevents me from completely blowing up the whole setup. I really really really wish i had upgraded my 100amp service and installed some form of converter years and years ago. Now, it simply doesnt make sense to do all of that and drop $5,000 in infrastructure to only use it for 2 years. I think Patrick Walsh was going through similar struggles with his decisions.

Haha, yes, Matt, I agree with you there. Like I said, i never want to be the guy trying to get above market for a pristine tool. Id rather be the guy selling a rusty bucket without a motor. In my experience, guys will often over pay for the cheap fixer upper versus the turn key. Possibly wordy example to follow. Prior to acquiring this complete saw, i bought a shell of a 72 for $150-200. Something I thought was very cheap. After getting it home, taking inventory of what was missing, pricing up a motor, switch, pulleys, fence and some other missing stuff, i was going to be well over a grand in parts. Ended up selling that shell of a saw within 24 hours for $500. It didnt make sense for me at the dirt cheap price i had it at, but multiple people were clamoring over it for $500. Im guessing i hear crickets if i list this one. Hopefully not!

[Patrick Kane]

Jon,

Yours is the cleanest example ive seen for nesting saws. Unfortunately for me, i have a KF and not a K, and it looks like you have 49" rip capacity on your Felder? I have the narrower rip fence. I still might do this, but i need a 10" saw and not a 12/14. Also, it would be depressing to hack up this pm72 to fit in the space i need it to fit. Ideally, i would want a <$500 5hp 10" beater out of an auction that i can cut the fence rails to 12-13" without feeling guilty. And maybe ditch the extension wings too. It will ultimately be a hack job of a saw to fit where i need it to fit without interfering with the shaper and tilting feeder.

Your saw is recent, right? I assume you still feel the same way about keeping the 66? It is a must have?

[Rod Sheridan]

As someone who got rid of a cabinet saw to get a short stroke slider, I would never go back.

Now, I build solid wood furniture so pieces are small, however I've never found anything that's better on a cabinet saw than on a smaller slider.

I have found working on larger sliders not as ergonomic if you're doing smaller pieces, however when you have a 10 foot sheet of MDF, I can't imagine doing that on a cabinet saw.......Rod.

[glenn bradley]

I think Jon Snider has the right idea. I would be hard pressed to get rid of a beautiful cab saw like you have. It all comes down to you and what is important to you. A fine old automobile is a beautiful thing. If I never drive it and have to leave my new car out in the snow because of it, the value becomes fluid.

[Alex Zeller]

Is it possible to downsize the cabinet saw and put it on a mobile base and tuck it out of the way? That PM72 is a big saw. I know that would most likely mean all the blades for it would need to be replaced (unless they will work on the Felder). I assume that even not being a full slider you are planning on using it for all your sheet goods. If so then a 10" cabinet saw without both wings would take up a lot less room.