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Bob Riefer
04-17-2020, 11:55 AM
In the other recent thread around table saw accidents, I asked what specific activities people are doing on their table saws that put their fingers close to the blades in the first place... but that thread has (predictably) turned into a discussion of whether SS is worth it or not etc. so I'm starting a separate thread.

THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT SAW STOP

I would like to know points of view on how to safely use a table saw. I think if these rules (and others that you'll hopefully add) are followed, risk of injury is greatly reduced. I'd like to know the safest approach.

These are paraphrased from what I was taught at woodworking course (Lohr):

Be alert, not tired, obviously no alcohol
Clean/safe working environment (no clutter, no piles of sawdust etc.)
Plan your cuts, think through them ahead of time
Proper lumber preparation ahead of cutting, especially if cutting against a fence (i.e. you need a straight reference edge)
Don't cut short pieces against the fence (piece should be able to reach from before the blade to the splitter)
Blade raised high enough (I was taught a little "too-high" is far better than too low... pushes wood down instead of at you)
Splitter or riving knife for all possible cuts
Guard in place for all possible cuts
Properly aligned fence
Left hand (guide hand) never goes past the front edge of the table
Right hand uses a well-designed push tool as soon as it passes the front of table


What other safety rules do you follow that I should incorporate into my routine?

And, do you think that following these protocols greatly reduces risk of injury? (i.e. as safe as: using a snow blower or lawn mower, trimming hedges, using a paper cutter at work, riding a bike off trail, rock climbing with a harness, playing 2-hand touch football, throwing darts, cutting fabric with shears, sewing with a sharp needle, re-winding a torsion spring on garage door, cleaning gutters on the 2nd story, using your knee to steer the car for a brief moment....)

Harvey Miller
04-17-2020, 12:53 PM
My additions:
Use featherboards when possible (I use magswitchs). If they hold the work down even better!
Don't touch the work until the saw blade has stopped.

Doug Garson
04-17-2020, 1:09 PM
Excellent list of safe working practices, I would modify one of them. Rather than left hand never goes past the front of table I normally keep a push stick in my left hand when ripping, that way if something goes wrong and I instinctively reach in, the push stick keeps my hand away from the blade. I would add a few, use featherboards to control small pieces and maintain pressure against the fence, hearing and eye protection, dust collection and/or dust mask. I also make a habit of dropping the blade below the table when I'm finished unless I need to maintain a blade height for additional cuts.

John TenEyck
04-17-2020, 1:27 PM
I would add:

Have adequate support for long pieces on the outfeed side.

John

Frank Pratt
04-17-2020, 1:55 PM
A riving knife is way better than a splitter, but neither is much good if they're not easy to mount & dismount. The guard & riving knife should take just a few seconds to remove or put back on. Otherwise, they will tend to be left off for 'just one cut'. This applies to the guard as well.

In an effort to keep hands far away from the blade, some get carried away. I've seen a number of youtubes where the guy was using 2 push sticks (not push blocks) to fumble the stock through the saw. I could hardly watch.

Mike Kees
04-17-2020, 2:11 PM
Bob you have an excellent list. I was taught by a very through and strict shop teacher ,pretty well ditto for your rules. One thing I have done differently is to grip the left table extension edge with my left hand after the cut is started,this adds incredible stability to your stance and keeps my hand ''out of trouble". I pretty well always use a push stick,the design of which keeps stock down tight to the table.

Lee Schierer
04-17-2020, 2:36 PM
I prefer this style of push stick when making rip cuts that are narrower than two hand widths between the fence and the blade.
430619
As far as added safety precautions make sure you wear glasses or safety shield when cutting.

Allow yourself to make no more than two mistakes in any one shop period. I find that after two mistakes frustration starts to set in and you tend to make more mistakes including compromising safety.

If you feel uncomfortable making any cut on any power tool, find another way to do it, it will usually be much safer.

Train your wife/children/friends when entering your shop to wait until you finish the current operation before speaking or attempting to get your attention if you are operating a power tool.

Erik Loza
04-17-2020, 2:39 PM
"Buy a slider"?

Seriously, though #1 and #2 on the OP's list pretty much covers everything. If we're talking about specific hacks, big fan of the Gripper here.

One more thought: My wife knows to never approach me when I'm on a machine until I make eye contact and acknowledge her. I learned this from my grandfather, who grabbed me by the hair once when I was about 6, because I was goofing around when he was doing something in the shop.

Erik

Stan Calow
04-17-2020, 2:45 PM
What's the consensus on short fences? Don't hear much about them lately. I used one for a few years, but not smart enough to know if it was safer or not.

Jim Dwight
04-17-2020, 3:22 PM
I have a separate shop garage and it has no garage door opener. I used to make wood dust in the same garage we parked at least my wife's car. She was pretty tolerant but would never adjust her use of the garage door opener to avoid me jumping while using a power tool. When she was ready to park the car, she opened the door. Other than that, she left me alone while I was working, usually.

She passed away over 10 years ago and I fear I am getting set in my ways. I would unplug the darned thing if I still had that risk.

I think the other rules are good. It is implied but having a well designed push stick readily at hand is a BIG DEAL. I use one by Tage Freid (sp?).

I do not use a blade guard but I use overhead dust collection when possible. And I use a Riving knife unless I am cutting dados. I also do not stand behind the workpiece if i can avoid it. I stand off to the left. Maintaining control of my workpiece has always avoided kickback for me. I've only had it on small offcuts I was not tending. But if I have to choose between my hands going near the blade and the piece flying backward, it can fly.

Jon Fletcher
04-17-2020, 3:32 PM
On the saw I purchased used a few years ago there was no splitter or guards, it did come with a nice Biesemeyer fence. I believe a good fence and zero clearance table inserts are just as important. I also use the microjig splitters and rip-grippers. Still keeping an eye out for a workable splitter though. I think the biggest safety factor is understanding how the tool works which goes along with planning the cut. When cutting on the saw or using any power tool for that matter it should feel smooth with no resistance, a properly aligned blade and fence help with that. Any resistance fealt and I immediately stop, don't force it. Nothing can replace commonsense and so far there are some good suggestions in this thread. Tool safety is important.

Tom M King
04-17-2020, 4:09 PM
Never put a hand over, or behind the blade, or even come close to the front of the blade.

Richard Coers
04-17-2020, 4:43 PM
All the rules are fine, but you will never come up with enough rules to override the human factor. Despite even the best software and path checking backup, even a robot or CNC can crash as long as there is a human in the chain. I've even nicked myself with a handsaw.

Rod Sheridan
04-17-2020, 5:01 PM
What's the consensus on short fences? Don't hear much about them lately. I used one for a few years, but not smart enough to know if it was safer or not.

Here's what I teach in table saw seminars.

1) always use a riving knife or splitter except when using grooving tools such as a dado cutter. The splitter or riving knife prevent work piece contact with the back of the blade, resulting in kickback.

2) always use a crown guard (blade guard that covers the top of the blade) for the same reason as #1, also prevents hand contact with the top of the blade. Never run the saw without a blade guard, ever. If you're running the saw without a guard you're either using the wrong machine for the task, or using the wrong guard

3) when ripping solid material use a short rip fence that ends just beyond the start of the blade.

4)Use push sticks or blocks as required, never use a push block that requires the removal of the guard or riving knife or splitter.

If you're not going to buy a saw with secondary safety systems such as Saw Stop, buy a short stroke slider, better capacity, accuracy and safety compared to a cabinet saw...........Rod.

Darcy Warner
04-17-2020, 5:03 PM
I just refrain from touching a spinning blade. Worked great for the last 20 years or so.

Halgeir Wold
04-17-2020, 5:13 PM
Just one piece of advice.... NEVER get complacent with your power tools! Complacency almost cost me a couple of fingers some 25 years ago, but luck got the better of wisdom, so I came out OK...

Darcy Warner
04-17-2020, 5:19 PM
Here's what I teach in table saw seminars.

1) always use a riving knife or splitter except when using grooving tools such as a dado cutter. The splitter or riving knife prevent work piece contact with the back of the blade, resulting in kickback.

2) always use a crown guard (blade guard that covers the top of the blade) for the same reason as #1, also prevents hand contact with the top of the blade. Never run the saw without a blade guard, ever. If you're running the saw without a guard you're either using the wrong machine for the task, or using the wrong guard

3) when ripping solid material use a short rip fence that ends just beyond the start of the blade.

4)Use push sticks or blocks as required, never use a push block that requires the removal of the guard or riving knife or splitter.

If you're not going to buy a saw with secondary safety systems such as Saw Stop, buy a short stroke slider, better capacity, accuracy and safety compared to a cabinet saw...........Rod.

Honestly, all those sound like nothing more than a sales pitch. According to you, all saws that are not a slider or a saw stop should be taken to the scrap yard.

Yeah, a sales pitch for sure.

Rod Sheridan
04-17-2020, 5:29 PM
Honestly, all those sound like nothing more than a sales pitch. According to you, all saws that are not a slider or a saw stop should be taken to the scrap yard.

Yeah, a sales pitch for sure.

Nope, a table saw used properly is safe, the main issue I find with saw users is the lack of a guard or splitter/riving knife.

If a person doesn't want to use those primary protection systems then you need a secondary system like Sawstop or Reaxx to prevent cuts, without the primary systems neither of those secondary systems prevent kickback.

If you use primary systems you can be safe.

A slider increases the safety of primary systems by not having to have your hands near the blade.

Regards, Rod.

Brian Tymchak
04-17-2020, 5:40 PM
... If we're talking about specific hacks, big fan of the Gripper here.


Yep, me too. A push stick will give down force and push force, but the gripper will also provide force against the fence, and some control of the offcut if cutting smaller parts.

Darcy Warner
04-17-2020, 5:47 PM
Nope, a table saw used properly is safe, the main issue I find with saw users is the lack of a guard or splitter/riving knife.

If a person doesn't want to use those primary protection systems then you need a secondary system like Sawstop or Reaxx to prevent cuts, without the primary systems neither of those secondary systems prevent kickback.

If you use primary systems you can be safe.

A slider increases the safety of primary systems by not having to have your hands near the blade.

Regards, Rod.

Like I said, the majority of table saws should be tossed.

Impartial either way to a riving knife. The majority of over blade gaurds are cumbersome/obtrusive.

Seen a few I could probably live with if I was forced to at gun point or something.

Tom Willoughby
04-17-2020, 5:50 PM
All good safety recommendations. I would add to not wear loose clothing, jewelry, and tie up long hair. As has been mentioned before, if you hear that little voice in your head that the cut is a bit ‘scary’ listen to it and find a better way to make the cut.

Tom

Jim Becker
04-17-2020, 6:16 PM
What's the consensus on short fences? Don't hear much about them lately. I used one for a few years, but not smart enough to know if it was safer or not.

You may want to be more specific about what you are referring to here. Euro sliders and North American saws with the UniFence or similar permit "short fence" operation for multiple potential reasons. I generally have my fence set to end before the rear of the blade which absolutely insures there's less potential binding behind the blade if I'm using the fence to cut something rather than the slider wagon. I also pull the fence back to in front of the blade when I want to use it for a length stop for crosscutting something but not have the off-cut between a fence and the blade during the actual cut.

Myles Moran
04-17-2020, 7:00 PM
I've found for any cut where I need to pick up my gripper, or the push stick (and it's a narrow cut), I'll lower the blade and run through the operations I'll do when the saw is on. That way I can plan ahead with making sure my left hand is pushing (and in control) at the right moment when I'm reaching over for the gripper/push stick. I don't do that for every cut, but anything where I can't run it with the guard on I do.

Thomas McCurnin
04-17-2020, 7:44 PM
In lieu of a splitter, I was taught that a short auxiliary fence which ends just beyond the blade works well to allow the wood to spring back, and not get pinned against the fence with the wood's internal energy.

Zachary Hoyt
04-17-2020, 7:55 PM
I keep the blade low, so it only comes through 1/4" or less. I find that I get a lot smoother cuts this way, especially with reducing tearout in plywood. I don't use the table saw every day, but I've put in a lot of hours on them over the last 20 years, starting at age 14, and have been lucky enough to have no injuries so far. In the shop I use the bandsaw a lot more because of what I make, mostly small pieces.
Zach

Joel Gelman
04-17-2020, 8:45 PM
My 0.02 is to use a slider if at all possible (European design). That has a bigger footprint that a traditional cabinet saw, but if you are ever going to work with 4x8 sheet goods, you need a large working footprint anyway. These machines - Martin, Felder, Altendorf can cost over $50,000 new. However, I saw an Altendorf sell used on ebay for $3,000. With a long slider (preferably with pneumatic air clamps, and an inexpensive shop made "Fritz Franz" jig and parallel fence, I can't think of any cut that can't be made where you have to stand behind the blade or where your hand/fingers have to be within 2 feet of the blade. You never need to push wood past a rip fence with the rip fence only to be used at times in front of the blade to set the width of the cut to be made with the slider where the measurement is between the right side of the blade and the rip fence rather than the left side of the blade and the stop of the crosscut fence.

Just my 0.02

Terry Therneau
04-17-2020, 8:47 PM
If at all possible, have a saw switch that you can hit without looking, even better if a knee can do it. It really helps with my rule 2, which that if a piece starts to bind -- stop right there and shut off the saw. (I have an older Unisaw (1947) with a 1HP motor, and I actually like the fact that if something binds badly, I am stronger than the motor and will win the pushing contest.)

Derek Cohen
04-17-2020, 10:08 PM
Complacency is the biggest threat. Pay attention! I’ve used table saws for 30 years, and they remain the machine I fear the most.

I have a slider with a splitter, and still work with the blade guard whenever possible. My saw has a shorter wagon, so the rip fence is used much of the time. I recently added a Jessem hold down fixture, replacing the finger board that was used. Still, my hands can get close to the blade, but this is a time for total focus having thought through the process.

The point is that technique and accessories are helpful in preventing injury, but respect and focus are the tools that do the work. If a SawStop is triggered, you can thank the mechanism, but you need to realise that you screwed up and need to re-think your approach to sawing.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Brian Deakin
04-18-2020, 9:23 AM
(1) Always use an appropriate blade for the task (eg number of teeth grind and is it sharp) and confirm this by examining the blade before switching on the saw
It is when you are just making one or a few cuts there is a temptation not to change the blade and to believe I can just perform these few cuts It will be fine !
(2) Always disconnect the saw before making any adjustments and when leaving the shop
(3) I have sprayed my zero clearance insert red to remind me to keep my hands away from this area

(4) Do you have a plan of what to do if you have a catastrophic event

Eg. I have just cut across the width of the palm of my hand, the roof of the workshop and the front of my body are covered in blood ,what am I going to do

Have I spoken to a healthcare professional to gain an understanding of what I need to do

Do I have something to stem the flow of blood
Who and how do I get help ,what do I do if I am alone at home
Do I have a mobile phone in the workshop does it have the emergency number preset

Have I role played this situation can I complete all of the necessary steps and in the correct order in an appropriate amount of time

Perhaps this is a good opportunity to discuss what should there be in an emergency kit for the workshop

Rod Sheridan
04-18-2020, 10:58 AM
Hi Brian, yes planning for shop accidents is important.

I have a first aid kit that’s optimized for wounds, lots of bandage/blood flow staunching pads.

It’s low enough that I can reach it from the floor.

Back when I had a POTS phone, it was 12 inches above the floor, now my cell phone stays in my apron.

I also leave the house doors unlocked in case I need EMS.....Regards, Rod

Denis de Leon
04-18-2020, 11:05 AM
I'm new here and haven't had a chance to introduce myself but this seemed like a good beginner's thread to chime in. Being a noob, I like to believe I have a healthy attitude towards table saws; I also happen to enjoy having ten fingers - they've been attached for 66 years and I'd like to keep it that way. Here's my beginner approach to my table saw:

Reach around the blade and never over the blade
Have a healthy fear of the saw
Stay alert
Unplug from outlet when changing blades
Use all the safety equipment whenever possible (dados the exception)
Use the right blade for the job
If the wood binds, shut down. Don't force the wood through. Figure out what happened so it doesn't happen again.

- denis

Bob Riefer
04-19-2020, 10:11 AM
Thanks everyone for the thoughtful additions to the safety list! I definitely picked up a few pointers that I will begin to employ right away. Thanks!!

Thomas McCurnin
04-20-2020, 1:00 AM
All good advice.

The only thing was not mentioned, and that I would add, is that I like to stand to the side of the saw, and not directly behind the rip cut, in the event there is kickback. I am right handed, so I stand with my center a few inches to the left of the blade and use my right hand to grip a push stick, pressing down and into the fence. Conveniently, the shut off switch for my Unisaw is on that side and can be engage with my left knee.

Andrew Pitonyak
04-20-2020, 5:19 PM
Are you familiar with the "Micro Jig GRR-Ripper"? This can be very useful, based on how it is able to hold the wood.