how common are table saw accidents

[Stephen White]

Trying to decide on table saw. I totally get the sawstop debate, they add a huge markup to the saw for the safety brake. Most everyone seems to feel its an adequate saw and some people love it but mainly you would pony up the dough for the safety brake.

I have an old cheap table saw that I have used for years and never had an accident but I have not really used it as a woodworking tool but to do large projects, such as building a few building (one pretty large and finished out) and remodeling a house. Looking back I do wonder if I was always as careful as I should have been. Laid a couple thousand feet of hardwood and did a ton of ripping for that project. Never has a problem but don't remember being particularly careful, although I have always respected power tools and saws.

The main tool in my workshop has been a CNC router and have used my little cheap saw only occasionally but now I am adding some products that will need a daily table saw session ripping small boards for a few dozen frames. My wife will also be using it. Neither of us has a lot of experience and I am feeling protective of both our fingers and hands and inclined to pop for the sawstop. That will mean I would have to get the cheapest one they have to stay under the 2 grand I can spend on the saw. It is very tempting to just get a good thousand dollar saw but ....

Is it really worth the extra cost for the blade brake or is this a case of the brand playing up a hazard that is really not much of a problem for folks that are careful?

[Myles Moran]

They're fairly uncommon until they happen to you (I don't know an actual scientific number off hand, no pun intended). If the saw is worth it to you or not will always be a personal choice. I own one and I wouldn't trade it for anything, but for guys who run big pieces of plywood or otherwise work with large pieces of wood where their hands aren't anywhere near the blade and they can always use the guard? I can understand them not thinking the additional cost is worth it. One thing to consider is they do hold their value pretty well, you'll get more return selling a used sawstop job site saw than you would from from other jobsite saws.

How big of pieces are you ripping, and how comfortable are you/your wife around a tablesaw?

[Rob Luter]

I know lots of folks with lots of hours on table saws that have never had an accident. These same folks are methodical, safety conscious, and make it a point to not do anything stupid. They leave the guards in place and use push sticks. I've used a TS3650 for 15 years. I've only had one indecent and that that scared me more than anything. I was doing something stupid and a work piece got caught between the fence and blade and kicked back. I was using push sticks and wearing PPE. Lesson learned without blood loss. Smarter now. The other thing I never do is push the envelope. I only use my table saw for things a table saw is good at. I use the guards, feather boards, and hold down devices. I use all manner of push sticks. It makes me cringe seeing people cutting without guards and push sticks or trying to resaw planks.


I have mixed feelings about Saw Stop. The guy that invented it had a great idea. The patent troll that bought it and then sued everyone who wouldn't license the tech from him should be shot (figuratively of course).

[Lee Schierer]

I've had one accident on my table saw in the 30 years I've had a table saw. I work on it intermittently. I needed 20 stitches on my little finger and wore a bandage on my left hand for 3 weeks. It only takes one error to send you or your wife to the emergency room. What is the cost of a single visit to the emergency room with potential complete or partial loss of use of one or more digits.

[Bill Dufour]

I would say everyone who has been doing woodworking for over ten year knows someone who has had an accident that has left scars.
Bil lD

[Joel Gelman]

I always thought of a safety feature as something I could not afford to risk doing without. I do not like ripping boards on my table saw. I use the bandsaw if the boards are not too wide, and with a feeder, that really is a bonus in safety (hands never near the blade with no push sticks needed) No kickback. No binding. All personal preferences and priorities.

[Stephen White]

How big of pieces are you ripping, and how comfortable are you/your wife around a tablesaw?

She hasn't really used one at all and I haven't used one that often. The hardwood install was the most I have used one because I did a couple thousand square foot and every room usually needed the last strip ripped but really was probably less than a 100 rips. Other projects just needed a board here and there ripped down to size.

Right now it is just for small frames and will be ripping 1 1/2 and 2 1/2 strips but it will be probably a session every morning to prep the wood needed for a few dozen frames.

[Stephen White]

I had not considered that, do you rip picture frame boards on a band saw?

[Jared Sankovich]

I have no interest or intention in getting a saw stop.

If my wife was going to use a tablesaw I would buy a saw sawstop tomorrow.

[Matt Day]

If you are reasonably intelligent, think through the cut before doing so, have the saw aligned properly, you will be fine.

It sounds like you should get a SS though. You have little experience, are worried about it, and your wife has zero experience.

Maybe pass on buying a few of those high end planes and spend it on the SS.

[Bob Riefer]

I'm honestly curious how, if following safe practices, the injuries occur?

Jeffrey Lohr taught us years ago... splitter or riving knife for all possible cuts, guard in place for all possible cuts, properly aligned fence, left hand (guide hand) never goes past the front edge of the table, right hand uses a well-designed push tool as soon as it passes the front of table.

My hands do not ever get close to a spinning blade following these types of tips.

Even when a board has had internal stresses and wants to pinch, it has pinched on the riving knife instead of kicking back.... Power saw down, lift board off the blade, take a second pass.

I'm almost cringing at the wave of yelling that's about to occur ("you can always fall asleep at the wheel!", "you haven't cut enough boards to know!" etc.)... but I'm truly curious. The safety practices taught to me (namely, don't put any part of your body above or near spinning blade, and use riving/splitter to combat kickback) seem sound. (and I'd say that working while tired isn't smart, and that a teacher like Jeffry has cut enough boards to know)

[Richard Coers]

Over 30,000 per year according to this paper. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4154236/

I got complacent with an ELU biscuit joiner around 1985. The board shot out of my hand, and the forces of my muscles sent my hand into the blade. It cut 3/4 of the way through one finger bone. The emergency surgeon screwed it up. and required a second surgery to stabilize the end of my finger on the bone. I had a corporate job so didn't loose income. If I would have been the self-employed woodworking shop owner I latter became, I would have been in debt for a decade and unable to work for nearly 2 months. I have a Sawstop in my basement shop now! I'm a huge fan.

[Stephen White]

yep, I came to the same conclusion after reading all the great responses. It really seems to come down to 'if' there is an accident then the extra grand may save a finger or hand.

Jared's mention of my wife made the difference. I'm making the decisions that anyone else using the saw has to live with and following all the safety rules and using a table saw with the kickback prevention stuff and a blade stop is right now the ultimate for everyone's safety. Annoying that I have to spend a grand on the blade stop but that's life.

Thanks for all the great input. Now pulling the trigger on the $1500 job site saw doesn't feel so brutal (I've got two small 8'x7' work areas carved out so space is a huge deal so the smaller saws are all I can look at).

[Bernie Kopfer]

As a Dentist I saw a lot of individuals over the years with a missing digit or two. Invariably when I would ask it was a tablesaw or a circular saw that did the damage.
Had three relatives with several missing digits due to saw accidents. They would joke that “Between the three of them, they could come up with two good hands”. Funny until it happens to you or someone you know well.

[Bob Hinden]

I purchased a SawStop PCS about a year ago, this was the third table saw I owned over about 30 years. I never had a serious accident with any of the saws, other than some kickbacks.

My thinking was that I only have one set of fingers, it was worth the extra money to keep them. I am generally careful when using power tools, but we all get tired and make mistakes.

I am very happy with the PCS, it's a great table saw, technical support from the SawStop is excellent, the instruction manual and parts packaging is the best I have ever seen. It was well worth it for me.

[William Hodge]

For another $315., you could put a Grizzley baby power feeder on that saw. The big advantage with the feeder is that you can put a shop vac crevice tool between the wheels, and get excellent dust collection. A little feeder is plenty for ripping that wood.
The Saw Stop saw is worth it. When I worked in shops, there was at east one serious (won't grow back) accident a year. The last one I dealt with was may father cross cutting some fingers. It must run in the family. My grandfather sawed the same three fingers, but on a swing saw, in about 1910. One would think I would get right out of woodworking and go do something with a reasonable chance of digital permanence. I think we, as a family, are improving. My great grandfather had a fatal logging accident, but it was a tree, not a saw.

[Dave Mount]

The SawStop is an insurance policy. You buy insurance to protect yourself from losses you can't afford/tolerate. Different people will do that math differently. I frequently see people doing things that I wouldn't do because I think they're too risky. On the other hand, I ride horses and go on wilderness trips that other people think are too risky. Posing the Sawstop question here can give you different considerations to weigh, but they can't provide an answer that has to come from you. The fact that you're asking means you see the risk.

I was a fairly early adopter of the SawStop technology, I bought mine back when there was only one model (I think that's what they call the "industrial" saw now). I bought it solely for the blade brake. What surprised me (I bought it without ever having my hands on one) was the quality of the saw. While there's no question you pay additional for the blade brake, it should not be lost that it is (at least my model is) a very high quality saw. I had a Unisaw before I bought the Sawstop, and was really impressed with the higher quality of the SawStop. My point is only that the "cost" of the brake probably shouldn't be judged against a lower end saw in the same general class.

Best,

Dave

[Robert Engel]

I look at it like air bags in a car.

You can drive for 40 years and never have an accident.

But if you do......

No, I don't own a SS.

[Alex Zeller]

If it was me (I own a PM66) and was was using it to make money I wouldn't even think about it. Get the SS and write it it off on your business taxes. Even if the saw is more than the profits you would make in a year you should be able to depreciate it over a couple of years.

[lowell holmes]

After cutting my thumb on the saw blade, I made and use push sticks. Once was enough for me.

[glenn bradley]

I offer that the tablesaw is no more or less dangerous than many other cutting tools. Statistics are presented in the manner that supports the presenter's position. I imagine tablesaw "accidents" would still be in the lead even if we could get decent data like 'number of incidents as a percentage of tools in existence'. Certainly unskilled laborers are the bulk of the "accidents". Sorry for the quote marks, I just can't resolve myself to the idea that an untrained individual unknowingly doing something wrong or a guy who has had 3 beers for lunch making a mistake as being an "accident"; I know, it's a personal problem ;-)

We could also argue about what constitutes a tablesaw. Do the $80 plastic machines used on job sites qualify? If so, other poorly designed and safety-lacking cutting tools should count in their categories, yes? My favorite bromide is that bandsaws are safe. People who say this have obviously never know a union meat cutter or been to a slaughter house.

Another question might be "what causes tablesaw accidents?". Detailed (and honest) reports on incidents would clarify the generalization methinks. If you are using a reasonably safe, well maintained machine in the intended manner and stay alert to your safety training you should be fine. Oh, another favorite; the guy who posts that he has used a tablesaw without a guard for 40 years and never had a problem . . . what a responsible thing to post in a forum often browsed by newbies anxious to learn ;-)

[Rod Sheridan]

There are several safety mitigation techniques for tablesaws;

1) always use a riving knife or splitter except when using grooving tools such as a dado cutter. The splitter or riving knife prevent work piece contact with the back of the blade, resulting in kickback.

2) always use a crown guard (blade guard that covers the top of the blade) for the same reason as #1, also prevents hand contact with the top of the blade. Never run the saw without a blade guard, ever. If you're running the saw without a guard you're either using the wrong machine for the task, or using the wrong guard

3) when ripping solid material use a short rip fence that ends just beyond the start of the blade.

4)Use push sticks as required, never use a push block that requires the removal of the guard or riving knife or splitter.

The Sawstop is a great secondary safety system, however it is not meant to replace proper gaurds, riving knives and multi-function rip fences. Sawstop cannot prevent kickbacks, the above can.

Regards, Rod.

[Bill Space]

I have an old cheap table saw that I have used for years and never had an accident but ... don't remember being particularly careful, although I have always respected power tools and saws...


Every time I personally get a thought like this, I always remember investment advice: "Past performance is no guarantee of future results."

A friend of a friend is a medical doctor (ER) that enjoys woodworking. We talked woodworking when I found this out. First thing he brought up was table saw accidents...

[Wes Grass]

I like the idea of a feeder. Or at least the Jessem stock guides, or similar. Almost seem mandatory here.

[Mike Henderson]

A woodworker friend of mine is an ER nurse. She would tell some interesting tales about table saw - and circular saw - accidents.

Independent of that, I bought a SawStop. I feel it's cheap insurance - you only pay one time (with the purchase of the saw). And if it saves my fingers, I'll happily pay for a new blade and brake.

I had a woodworking accident (not a table saw accident). When I went to the ER to be sewn up, it was about $1,000 (and it wasn't that serious of an injury).

Mike

[Joel Gelman]

I made a comment about using a bandsaw and feeder to make rip cuts and was asked if I rip picture frame boards on the bandsaw. The answer is no because I do not make picture frames. I used to rip wood on a Unisaw... push sticks... trying to keep the wood up against the fence. Once got a kickback.

Anyhow, I always use a bandsaw and feeder and I use the jointer on 1 edge, then go to the bandsaw to make the width just a bit wider than what I want, then do to the planer with the board on edge to set it to the final width. As a bonus, that insures even width along the length. If too wide for the planer on end, when one could use the jointer if you can dial in that final cut to not take off too much.

Anyhow, just one option.

[Stephen White]

OK, I pulled the trigger but not before moving up to a $2k SS contractors version. Couldn't afford to go further up the ladder than that but paced off the area and I think I can make the size work by sticking with the 30" rip and I assume it does give me some expansion capabilities later if/when I get a bigger shop.

The job site one just seemed like the wrong choice and at $1500 seemed over the top for wrong saw. I spent $3500 this week on a drum sander and this but i think they will be good additions, thanks for all the great input!

[Matt Day]

You spent $3500 on a drum sander and aren’t you buying a bunch of super high end planes? But couldn’t afford to buy a cabinet saw SS? You and I have very different priorities.

[Jim Andrew]

Late to the party, but have had a career in construction and woodworking, had an interest in a cabinet shop once, and never cut myself once with a table saw. Used to build cabinets for the houses I built, cut all the parts when framing homes, no cuts with any saws. Had a helper once who cut himself with a skilsaw. And during my 2 year career as a shop teacher, had a kid cut the tip of his finger off with a table saw. IMHO, school shops should have saws that shut down rather than cut a kid. Now if they also had similar gadgets for jointers, that would be great. You just can't believe what some kid will try to do when you take your eyes off them.

[Stephen White]

You spent $3500 on a drum sander and aren’t you buying a bunch of super high end planes? But couldn’t afford to buy a cabinet saw SS? You and I have very different priorities.

I didn't buy any planes, but no that's not correct though on the sander either. I spent $1500 on a Jet 18-36 drum sander and 2k on the SawStop for $3500 total. That's with tax and shipping.

These are for business and I think, or at least hope, my priorities are where they should be. I spent a lot of time researching both purchases last week and this week and have specific daily projects that they are intended for. I feel fairly certain they will/should pay for themselves over time in both saving some labor and increasing options via rip sizes instead of stock widths. I had nothing other than a palm sander and old $99 plastic table saw so these seem to be good buys for the business.

Even if I had decided to stretch and move up to a cabinet there is no way I could accommodate the size. I have very limited space and the footprint of the contractors SS model with no extensions will barely fit.

[Matt Day]

Gotcha, sounds reasonable then. Looking at fancy planes is a sure way to lighten your wallet btw.

[johnny means]

How much would it cost you to insure any future income against a tablesaw injury? To insure any future employees? SawStops are pretty much the cheapest insurance a woodshop can buy. This is why they're quickly becoming standard equipment.

[Jon Fletcher]

When I'm using any power tool (especially something like a tablesaw) nothing gets forced. If I feel any resistance I stop immediately and power down to remedy the problem. I have the micro jig pushblocks and splitters on my saw. Didn't have a splitter or guard when I bought it used. I hope your SS gives you what you need. Remember, even with airbags there's still fatalities.

[michael dilday]

From NIH: Results. Over 30,000 table saw injuries occur annually. Fingers and hands are the most frequently injured body part and lacerations are the most common injury. ... Medical costs for the treatment of table saw injuries are estimated at more than $2 billion every year.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4154236/

[Mike Henderson]

W Remember, even with airbags there's still fatalities.

Yes, but airbags save people in accidents that would have killed them before airbags were available in cars. Seat Belts have also saved a lot of lives. And I expect SawStop has saved a lot of fingers. I think Sawstop has some statistics on saves.

Mike

[Joel Gelman]

I have the micro jig pushblocks and splitters on my saw.

I had a Delta Unisaw that I sold 18 years ago to get a slider. Now, I never stand behind the blade or use the rip fence for cutting, but I remember how impressive the kickback was one day on the Delta. I was very happy my eye or any other part of my body was in the path of that projectile. I had a splitter. However, if I remember correctly, the splitter on that saw (and perhaps others like it) did not rise and conform to the blade. When the blade was not all that high, there was a gap between the blade and the splitter which can lead to a kickback even though you may think you are protected. It has been awhile. Anyhow, my current saw has a splitter that always is super close to the blade regardless of the blade height

[Warren Wilson]

I hardly want to fire up a Sawstop debate, but I bought the contractor model a few years ago and am very pleased with the general quality of the machine and don’t feel that my money was mostly spent on the brake cartridge but that I bought a piece of precision equipment that had an additional safety feature.

[Thomas McCurnin]

I have never had a table saw injury for like 50+ years. Nary a cut. I’ve had a couple knarly kickbacks but they were 100% my fault and I knew the cut I was about to make was iffy.

I apprenticed building bridges and commercial projects ripping and cross cutting on radial arm saws, really big 16” DeWalts and Comets. I was taught to examine the cut and visualize where the saw blade would be in relation to my hand before making the cut. If you couldn’t keep your hand 4-6” from the blade, then you were to use a push stick or another tool to make the cut. We used Disston rip saws for this purpose and a rough cut Disston could whip through a sheet of ply or do a bevel cut on a 2x4 very quickly and is super safe.

We also fabricated complicated hold downs, auxiliary fences and other jigs for safety. This was a union shop and we had a steward who made safety is number one priority. Being in the building trades, we had some drunks, and yes they got hurt, but they were quickly fired. Safety and quality were our watch words.

We were also taught to do important cuts in the morning or right after lunch and not at 5:45. If your mind is not on the cut, then back off and do it some other time.

Today, I’ll do practice cuts with the blade retracted and use hold downs, auxiliary fences, and push sticks. It might take me 10 minutes to set up and rehearse for a dangerous cut. I still have my Disstons and keep them sharp and use them. Hand tools are your friend.

I am scared to death of most power tools.

Go ahead and call me a wimp. I have all 10 fingers.

Nothing wrong with a saw stop but if you expect to be able to be sloppy (or exercise bad technique) and have it save you, then it won’t. People cause injuries not saws. I see no need for a saw stop.

[Ole Anderson]

A TS is good for ripping long wood or sheet goods. If you are doing anything with small wood or square pieces, use a sled or a Miter gauge, don't ever try to rip a small piece or kickback will be the likely result. I learned my lesson.

[John Sincerbeaux]

If you all only knew how much safer a sliding table saw is compared to the type of saws you’re talking about here.
With clamps or a F&F jig your body and hands are NEVER anywhere near the blade.

[ChrisA Edwards]

If you all only knew how much safer a sliding table saw is compared to the type of saws you’re talking about here.
With clamps or a F&F jig your body and hands are NEVER anywhere near the blade.

True, but for the majority of us hobby users, you have to spend almost double for that luxury and then you are getting a small capacity slider that doesn't have much benefit over using a normal tablesaw with a cross cut sled.

I would love a slider, just can't justify the price and space required, so I'll just have to get by with my Sawstop.

[Brandon Speaks]

I lost half my thumb just short of 2 weeks ago (not on a table saw or even doing anything wood working related) and I can tell you that it is an incredibly expensive and painful experience. Two weeks out and my left hand is useless for all practical purposes and I am still having to spend a few hours a day lying down while my hand is elevated and iced. I generally have to keep it elevated in a sling or arm rest for significant portions of the day though it is getting less and less daily. Even with my corporate desk job I lost a solid week of work and am nowhere near full productivity yet after a week back at the office. Any physical activity that elevates the heart rate tends to increase swelling and doing much of anything with that hand can make the hand painful for hours. I expect much of this to get significantly better over the next two weeks but the surgeon said its really not fully healed for 6 months or even longer for most people. I am doing PT on the middle joint and when I push it can get 50% range of motion though I expect if I keep doing this as much as they tell me to much of the range of motion will come back. In addition to this there will be some loss of functionality for life, they reconstructed enough of mine that I dont expect it to be too severe but another 1/4 of an inch the other direction and it would be little more than a useless nub left as the middle joint would not have been saved. Oh yea and while I dont have final medical bills yet I am expecting the part not covered by insurance to cross the $10k mark easily if not hit my annual may out of pocket of $15.5k.

My injury was in no way related to wood working but it gives you an idea of what happens if an accident in or out of the shop costs you a finger. I have toyed with the idea of a new table saw for a long time. When I set one it will be a SS.

[Stephen White]

bummer, sorry about your thumb. Yeah a SS seems like a no brainier. If I were you I wouldn't go back into your shop until you have one.

I think some folks are more pissed than anything that their perfectly good/great table saw doesn't have the blade brake and no matter how you argue the point that is an ultimate safety feature that might save a finger, hand or even your life.

Eventually the patent maneuvers will pan out and then everyone else will have something similar on their saws. Someone might even come up with a decent retrofit for the existing saws. Until then it is just what it is. It is a shame for both those that have to get rid of good saws and folks like me that need everything. That extra grand could have been a good band saw.

Oh well glad I did the research. Still plan on being just as safe as I can be with the SS and all my other tools.

[Jon Fletcher]

Yes, but airbags save people in accidents that would have killed them before airbags were available in cars. Seat Belts have also saved a lot of lives. And I expect SawStop has saved a lot of fingers. I think Sawstop has some statistics on saves.

Mike
Agreed. Basically I was just trying to point out that safety features shouldn't replace commonsense.

[Bruce Mack]

I also use the TS3650. Like Rob I use the splitter and guards, etc. There are times when concerned about safety I find an alternative method. Though I no longer cut and size a lot of lumber I still wish I had a SawStop.
"Neither of us has a lot of experience and I am feeling protective of both our fingers and hands". Get the SawStop.

[Wayne Cannon]

I'm reminded of what I'm always telling my daughter and granddaughter -- they're called "accidents" for a reason.

All the good practices in the world won't compensate for occasionally being tired, an unexpected distraction, weird wood, etc.

[John Sincerbeaux]

True, but for the majority of us hobby users, you have to spend almost double for that luxury and then you are getting a small capacity slider that doesn't have much benefit over using a normal tablesaw with a cross cut sled.

I would love a slider, just can't justify the price and space required, so I'll just have to get by with my Sawstop.

Yes, sliders are more expensive. Some way more expensive. I bought my first table saw at 15. I have 45 years operating contractor and cabinet saws. Since owning a slider, I am constantly creating ways of using the saw to make cuts without push sticks or even a fence. In fact my fence is a stop 99% of the time. To say a small capacity slider “ doesn’t have much benefit over a normal table saw with a cross cut sled is your opinion which I am confident I could change with some pictures of how I manage my slider.

With a slider, you need to use the right side of your brain to use the left side of the blade.

It’s all in the clamping!