Thoughts on dust collection layout

[Reggie Burnett]

I'm looking for advice on if my runs are too long for my HF 2HP DC. I was planning on using 4" trunk lines along the wall (above the ceiling) going on both directions to minimize distance. Still I have some fairly long runs. Here are the drops I have planned and the distance to the blast gate for that tool. The shop is 20x30 with the DC in one corner

Lathe: 24'
8" jointer: 41'
delta unisaw: 55'
miter saw: 14'
sweep port: 28'
radial arm saw: 44'

These sound kind of long so I'm concerned that it simply can pull that distance. One man shop so will only be one gate open at a time.

Thanks!

[Kevin Jenness]

Those are some long runs. 4" pipe and fittings is going to be very restrictive.

Start with calculating the airflow for each branch and the static pressure you will have to overcome with different pipe sizes and filtering options (including none, i.e. blowing the waste directly into an outside bin), then decide what is required for a blower. You will probably be best served with 6" main lines. This is a helpful guide https://airhand.com/designing/

[Reggie Burnett]

Those are some long runs. 4" pipe and fittings is going to be very restrictive.

Start with calculating the airflow for each branch and the static pressure you will have to overcome with different pipe sizes and filtering options (including none, i.e. blowing the waste directly into an outside bin), then decide what is required for a blower. You will probably be best served with 6" main lines. This is a helpful guide https://airhand.com/designing/

Thanks. I'm also concerned that my little HF 2HP DC can't. handle those runs even on 6". It only has a 5" inlet and I'm not prepared to step up to a bigger DC.

[Jim Becker]

It's never a good idea to do a perimeter design when you can avoid it because it invariably adds length to many runs that are farther out. This is one reason you so often see a main trunk (or a split main trunk) that generally takes a diagonal path that minimizes the run length for a given tool based on the length of the main trunk to the branch and then the branch to the drop. Those lengths are also going to be a challenge for such a small collector. If you have a 5" inlet, that's what your main trunk line should be. That will require you to use metal (26 gage or heavier) since anything "plastic" tends to be only available in even numbers. It's likely you can replace the inlet with a 6" flange, however, and even with your 2hp unit, having a 6" main can be beneficial as long as you're only open to one tool at a time. This is all "in general", of course...

[Ben Helmich]

Reggie, I’m in the same situation as you. I decided to roll the HF around to where I need it. I won’t install piping until I upgrade to a bigger dust collector. It just didn’t make sense to me to plumb for the small collector. I might even get a second cheap dust collector for the other side of the shop. It would be cheaper than plumbing. Just my 2 cents.

[Reggie Burnett]

I will likely do some testing on 30' runs with my DC to see how it goes. But if it's not that good, as I sort of suspect, I'll be rolling mine around as well. Still I have a plan to try and minimize my runs (keep them 30' or less). I'm going to price some 5" metal around town today.

[Robert Engel]

I'm pulling through 6" ducts with a 1 1/2HP blower and cyclone which was a "temporary" setup while trying to find a 3HP blower. I finally gave up looking that has been about 3 years ago. I've been using it as is, and while not optimal, it does the job well enough to satisfy me.

FWIW I have a floor sweep app. 30' away and it will suck up small screws.

Layout is very important. You have to have a big system

I think the 5" ducts would be better than 4, I'm confident your blower will handle 6".

I would add that layout if all important. If you want to do a perimeter set up in a shop that size you probably need a bigger blower.

[Bob Riefer]

I can give you a direct data point in case it's useful...

I went through all of this already. To be honest, I ignored all the advice I received, figuring I'd already invested some $$ in the HF unit, and that if I just did a really good job with my setup my experience would be different... or that "good enough" would be far better than no dust collection at all. Again, I had the same HF 2 HP dust collector. My longest run (including 45 degree bends... no 90's) was just under 30 feet. I had a shop built Thien Baffle.

First, I used 4" PVC. It collected some dust I suppose... but not very well. So I took down that pipe (it's still sitting in my attic... so that $$ is sunk) and tried again.

Then I upgraded to 6". Dramatic improvement, but still generally awful. In the pipe I would later find piles of dust that just couldn't stay suspended long enough to reach the end of the runs.

One day, saw dust piled on the floor as usual (despite constantly running the DC), I slipped on a hidden piece of scrap and bumped my head on my bandsaw (a little blood, no stitches)... With minimal searching, I found a 3 hp unit on FB marketplace for $300 (sold the old unit for $75 literally in 10 minutes). Since I already had the 6" pipe in place, most of my install focus was around upgrading to Super Dust Deputy XL and adding a Wynn filter. Admittedly, those two upgrades ran me another $500 ish (hard to remember) but wow was it worth it.

The amount of improvement on my dust collection is ridiculous. My shop is cleaner and safer, and it's just more enjoyable to work in there. Do I still have to sweep up and use the leaf blower periodically? Sure, but wayyyyyyyyyyyy less often (like once a month instead of daily).

So I guess my advice is... please consider if your experience may go like mine... HF (or other small DC) setup with long runs just doesn't work great generally. It may make sense to wheel your unit around for now, or at least bigger pipe with plans to upgrade soon, or just upgrade to something bigger right away (going used market can keep the price way down).

Not trying to be a downer, just have been there and done that, and I'd be $$ ahead if I'd gone a different route from the start.

[Jim Becker]

I'm going to price some 5" metal around town today.

Make sure you are looking at 26 gage or heavier ("stove pipe"), not regular HVAC pipe which is about 30 gage.

[Reggie Burnett]

Thanks. definitely will. I think I'm going to test out my HF on a 30' run of the 4" pvc just to see what we are talking about. Sheesh, planning out a decent system is a lot of work. :)

[Reggie Burnett]

One day, saw dust piled on the floor as usual (despite constantly running the DC), I slipped on a hidden piece of scrap and bumped my head on my bandsaw (a little blood, no stitches)... With minimal searching, I found a 3 hp unit on FB marketplace for $300 (sold the old unit for $75 literally in 10 minutes).

Great info, thanks! Care to share what 3HP unit you bought? I found an old Powermatic model 75 near me they are wanting $300 for. have no idea how old it is.

[David L Morse]

Great info, thanks! Care to share what 3HP unit you bought? I found an old Powermatic model 75 near me they are wanting $300 for. have no idea how old it is.

That DC has a 14" fan which is a huge improvement over the HF. The HF has a 10" fan (so really 1.5HP) so expect about double the static pressure from the Powermatic. I don't think you'll find a 3HP unit with a larger fan. Some of those labeled 3HP have only a 12" fan and won't be much better than a real 2HP DC.

[Ben Helmich]

Reggie, that PM75 is about $1000 new retail for the current model. I also understand that is has a 14” impeller. A 3hp grizzly is like $600 to my door step and it only has about a 12” impeller. Chances are the PM75 would be much better than the grizzly. Probably has a better motor also. 3hp is what I want to do when finally upgrade. Makes more sense to me than the HF unit upgrades. And you can use it with plumbing, but still roll it from machine to machine until that happens. There was one in Austin for $400 on Craigslist recently. Wasn’t the right time for me to get it, unfortunately.

[David Roddis]

This is a timely post, I'm in the same situation. I have an old 2HP BusyBee/Craftex B404 motor, 2HP with a 12" impeller. Currently connected to a SDD, but not the XL version. My recent challenges with my new Fusion F3 have me looking at dust collection again.
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I'm pricing out 6" PVC and Metal to see what the best way forward is. I'm worried that running 6" to the machine, then dropping to either single, or multiple 4" drops on the machine will overwhelm my dust collector.

Here is my proposed Layout, with rough distances.

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So my question is really, for those with bigger brains then I, and strong opinions.

1. Could I run 6" pipe throughout the shop, (23' x 26'), including drops and then reduce to 4" at the machines and not have major issues? I only run one machine at a time with the dust collector.
2. Should I run 6" mains and then drop to 5" or 4" down to the machines?
3. Should I just order 5" duct, the size of my SDD inlet, and run that throughout?

For reference with 4" duct I'm getting between 3500 FPM and 4300FPM using my Amazon Anemometer (sp).

I have a friend donating 6" PVC pipe, though not fittings. So that's expensive, but also have a great quote for around $400 CDN for all the metal pipe I need, spiral 26 Gauge, and 28 Gauge fittings at either 5" or 6".

that's a lot to unload, but hopefully I'm adding to the thread and not highjacking it!

[David Publicover]

You
This is a timely post, I'm in the same situation.

I have a friend donating 6" PVC pipe, though not fittings. So that's expensive, but also have a great quote for around $400 CDN for all the metal pipe I need, spiral 26 Gauge, and 28 Gauge fittings at either 5" or 6".

that's a lot to unload, but hopefully I'm adding to the thread and not highjacking it!

Hi David,
It seems there are a few of us going through the same planning. I have a 2 hp CWI cyclone that I currently roll to each machine. I’m not loving the constant moving and connecting. I’d like to change that and switch from 4” flexible hose to 6” pipe with 4”reducers at the machines. My shop is a single car garage so the runs aren’t too long.
Seeing how you are are in an area I’m pretty familiar with, do you mind me asking where you sourced the metal pipe and fittings? Although, it is off limits now, I go to Halifax regularly to visit family and just roam around the city.
Best of luck with your project!
PS. I’m pretty sure I’m guilty of a hijacking. Dang. Apologies to the OP.

[David Roddis]

Hey David,

happy to share. I reached out to These people. A guy names Brian was super helpful. I ask around and they have a good reputation and are said to be very fair on pricing.

https://pioneermetalworx.ca/

im torn between metal and PVC. Where are you in your research?

[David Publicover]

Hi David,
Thanks for the link. I’ve just started getting information together and following threads like this with interest. Sourcing the fittings in either metal or PVC locally is something I was planning to look into before the lockdown began. Your information will be a big help!

[Andrew More]

For metal fittings I've gone to the local HVAC supply house. I personally like metal ducting better than plastic because I feel the fittings are more flexible. The elbows can do just about any angle, and are easier to setup with gradual curves than PVC. It also seems like PVC is much more expensive when it comes to fittings.