Mallet Wt. for Dovetails, Mortises?

[Stew Denton]

Hi All,

I am thinking about either buying or making a couple of wooden mallets, because my dovetail chisels and mortise chisels have wooden handles. One for dovetailing and one for chopping mortises.

What weight or dimensions do you use and find a good size. Please include whether the weight is total weight or weight of the head. If you don't know the weight, what about the dimensions of the head (LXWXT), and the handle lenght.

I want to buy or build a traditional mallet, with a head that is a rectangular block with the faces sloping slightly toward the handle.

I do have some osage orange lumber that I bought a little over 3 years ago for this exact purpose, that has been drying in the garage ever since.

Thanks and regards,

Stew

[Derek Cohen]

Stew, my absolute favourite mallet is a modified Veritas Cabinetmaker's Mallet (https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/mallets/50229-veritas-cabinetmakers-mallet)

I have replaced the original handle, which was too slim and straight for my liking. And I faced the ends with UHMW. This provides a terrific combination of feedback (as it is quite hard) with protection for the wooden chisel handle (as it has some give together with the wooden core). The UHMW lasts and lasts.

The head is 18 oz cast brass, and this is solid but not overly heavy. I like the balance. It can be used with bench chisels as well as mortice chisels.

https://i.postimg.cc/j2VDnG6Q/Mallet-zpsawalgxow.jpg

I have a heavier mallet 37oz), brass infilled to keep the size down, which I made for morticing in very hard wood, but most of the time I prefer the one above. The heavy duty mallet can be choked up ...

https://i.postimg.cc/qR99VdyK/3-zps97cd6e8f.jpg

For Japanese chisels, which are hooped, I will also use a steel gennou, typically the 225gm (8oz) for softer wood and, at the rear, 375gm (13oz) for harder wood ...

https://i.postimg.cc/TwZzbWdF/Tenryu-Tsuchime-Shikaku-225-325-gm.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Andrew Hughes]

I use a smallish hammer for Dovetails.
It keeps me hitting the chisels straight plus my work is smallish.
Thanks for asking this question I’ve always wanted to show off my hammer now I have a reason. :)

[steven c newman]

Per the OP's request....Roy Underhill, The Woodwright's Shop....the Big Ash Mallet....

[Jim Matthews]

If you have many to cut, the weight of the mallet isn't trivial. When I have no alternative to chopping, I like the 20 ounce Stanley "soft face" hammer.

More than two pounds would make a hefty (and tiring) mallet. You can always add weight, drilling a hole and dropping in fishing sinkers.

[Warren Mickley]

I have used a 30 ounce dogwood mallet for mortises since 1979. For something this heavy you don't want a long handle like a hammer because it would wear out your wrist. My mallet has an 8 inch handle. Roubo specifies an 8 inch handle also. The mallet he describes might be a bit heavier considering the dimensions he mentions for the head.

For dovetails, I recommend a mallet in the 14-15 ounce range.

[bill epstein]

Mortises, 20 oz. Carpenter's Mallet, Lignum
Other Joinery with Western Chisels, 14 oz. Walnut Carver's (the Lignum one ran away)
Other Joinery with my one and only Mentori Oirenomi Chisel, 12 oz. flat face steel Warrington style hammer (because that's what I have)

[Bill Carey]

For dovetails I use the smaller, oak mallet that weighs in at 14 oz, and has steeper faces so it lands correctly when I'm sitting on the stool. The walnut one is 28 oz, and is used for just about everything else.

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[Rob Luter]

My favorite is a 24 oz stainless version I made from a shower door handle. Call it a “poor man’s Glen Drake”. It’s very compact and easy to control. The mass really drives the chisels without having to whack anything too hard. I mostly in White Oak (groan) and it powers the chisels through quite effectively.

430078

[Jim Koepke]

My two shop made mallets are about 24oz total weight of bog or bitter cherry.

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?161952

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?280200

This is one made a few months ago:

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This one was made nine years ago:

430090

It is still in use and has a nicely polished handle from years of use.

Why buy when it is so easy to make your own?

jtk

[steven c newman]

Maybe their "sponsors" gave it to them?:rolleyes:

Mine little collection...
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Left to right: Wall E World, inherited John Doak ( too lightweight) and the spalted Maple mallet i turned to match my hands....

Liking the Wall E World one....one face to drive a chisel, one face to assemble a glue joint. haven't the foggiest how much any of these weigh...

[Derek Cohen]

I use a smallish hammer for Dovetails.
It keeps me hitting the chisels straight plus my work is smallish.
Thanks for asking this question I’ve always wanted to show off my hammer now I have a reason. :)

Andrew, what is the weight ov your gennou?

Also, did you remove the hoops and reshape the rear of the what-looks-like nomi at the rear?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Derek Cohen]

Question for all:

For bench chisels, do you prefer the flat face of a cabinetmaker’s/joiner’s mallet, or the rounded face of a carver’s mallet? And why?

For myself, I prefer a flat face, as I find the energy is more directed, and there is less chance of a glancing, off target blow.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Rob Luter]

My home brew chisel striker has domed faces. It works great.

[Curt Putnam]

Question for all:

For bench chisels, do you prefer the flat face of a cabinetmaker’s/joiner’s mallet, or the rounded face of a carver’s mallet? And why?

For myself, I prefer a flat face, as I find the energy is more directed, and there is less chance of a glancing, off target blow.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I have too many mallets, but then I have too many chisels. Anyway, for light tapping, I prefer the Blue Spruce (16 oz) which is round. For serious whacking, I prefer a heavier, flat faced mallet. Ron Bontz made one I like a lot. I have an antique that was so full of cracks & splits that I filled it with epoxy and faced it with epoxy. Also have the Veritas Cabinetmaker's mallet which has not yet been faced with anything. Which one I use depnds on the chisel and degree of precision needed as well as the mood of the moment. I have a nice, conventional cabinetmaker's mallet which I seem to never use - just do not like the way it feels or the noise it makes.

[James Pallas]

Here is my line up. Oddly enough to me is they all weigh in at 20 to 22 ozs. The one I use now is the Wood is Good mallet. The one I used before that is the round head wood mallet 30 years or more. The thin looking carpenters mallet I made to chop mortises near an obstruction. The small brass round mallet I use with the head in my hand to tap on carving chisels. I put the finish hammer in there because it’s my favorite for hammer use. It surprised me because they all weigh about the same. I must be stuck on 20 ozs. I have other mallets but seldom use them.

[Ron Bontz]

My joiner's mallet has a 2.5* face bevel. Otherwise flat. The leather makes it less noisy and the flat is less likely to glance. My carving chisels I like a round mallet because of the way I hold it.

[Ron Bontz]

Hi Curt.
I don't recall which mallet you bought, but it is good to hear you like it. Thank you. :)

[Jim Koepke]

Question for all:

For bench chisels, do you prefer the flat face of a cabinetmaker’s/joiner’s mallet, or the rounded face of a carver’s mallet? And why?

For myself, I prefer a flat face, as I find the energy is more directed, and there is less chance of a glancing, off target blow.

Regards from Perth

Derek

My preference is also for a cabinetmaker's/joiner's mallet for the same reasons. My few times using a carver's mallet were not comfortable.

For light tapping my favorite is a variation of a flat faced mallet:

430117

The one on the left is made from a piece of oak salvaged from a pallet. It is likely around 12oz. It is a comfortable user. The one on the right was a copy made to sell at the farmers market. People liked them for nut crackers among other uses.

jtk

[Jim Matthews]

I made from a shower door handle. Call it a “poor man’s Glen Drake”. It’s very compact and easy to control. The mass really drives the chisels without having to whack anything too hard.

430078

That is fiendishly clever.

Kudos

[Bill Carey]

My favorite is a 24 oz stainless version I made from a shower door handle. Call it a “poor man’s Glen Drake”. It’s very compact and easy to control. The mass really drives the chisels without having to whack anything too hard. I mostly in White Oak (groan) and it powers the chisels through quite effectively.

430078


Nicely done Rob - very cool adaptation. But how do you get in the shower now??

95% of what I do is in QSWO as well, so I was very happy to find the router method of cleaning out the waste. (Thanks Derek) Makes life a lot easier. And when I feel like chopping, I can. Now it's a choice, not a sentence to hard labor.

[Jim Matthews]

Nicely done Rob - very cool adaptation. But how do you get in the shower now??


You keep one IN the shower: to break the glass in the event of a fire.

[Rob Luter]

That is fiendishly clever.

Kudos

Thanks. Original build thread here (https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?275464-A-couple-tools-for-the-bench&highlight=).


Nicely done Rob - very cool adaptation. But how do you get in the shower now??

95% of what I do is in QSWO as well, so I was very happy to find the router method of cleaning out the waste. (Thanks Derek) Makes life a lot easier. And when I feel like chopping, I can. Now it's a choice, not a sentence to hard labor.

I've been using a band saw lately. It speeds things up dramatically.

Another thing I discovered is just how important a solid backer is when chopping. Bounce, even when imperceptible, consumes energy. My benchtop is 3 1/2" thick maple and is solid as a rock. Even so, chopping directly over a leg is noticeably more solid. Yesterday I elevated the workpiece with a 12/4 piece of oak held in place with a holdfast. That helped too.

[Charles Guest]

Here is my line up. Oddly enough to me is they all weigh in at 20 to 22 ozs. The one I use now is the Wood is Good mallet. The one I used before that is the round head wood mallet 30 years or more. The thin looking carpenters mallet I made to chop mortises near an obstruction. The small brass round mallet I use with the head in my hand to tap on carving chisels. I put the finish hammer in there because it’s my favorite for hammer use. It surprised me because they all weigh about the same. I must be stuck on 20 ozs. I have other mallets but seldom use them.

That's about the right size. A close to two pound mallet, in the 30 oz. range, is preposterous for furniture mortises which beg to be cut not mauled to death.

[David Carroll]

I've got several mallets, an old Clay branded British Joiners Mallet, three beautiful beech mallets (in graduated sizes) from an old Scottish Joiners Chest, full of 19th century tools (that I bought when I had more money than sense) a cast bronze mallet with wooden infill, pretty much identical to the one in the Studley chest, and a Thor Hammer like Paul Sellers uses. But I also have one of the 12 oz "Wood is Good" Urethane-clad carver's mallets. It's that one I grab for dovetailing. It's solid, it's forgiving of misdirected blows, it's kind to tool handles, and above all else, it's quiet. Now that I'm back in an apartment, I have to be conscious of noise.

DC

[lowell holmes]

I agree with David. You need one of each. :rolleyes:

[Warren Mickley]

That's about the right size. A close to two pound mallet, in the 30 oz. range, is preposterous for furniture mortises which beg to be cut not mauled to death.

I am glad I did not read this 40 years ago. Roubo specifies a mallet head that is 85-90 cubic inches of ash or hornbeam, which is a little over two pounds.

Her are furniture makers from Diderot:
430256

[Charles Guest]

I am glad I did not read this 40 years ago. Roubo specifies a mallet head that is 85-90 cubic inches of ash or hornbeam, which is a little over two pounds.

Her are furniture makers from Diderot:
430256

Quality consistent steel honed at a not too obtuse angle, all supported by good honing media means you don't need a two pound mallet to chop a bloody 1/4" wide mortise. Good Lord man that thing would blot out the sun.

Quit reading these old tomes as if they were Gospel, valid for all time and in all places.

[Jim Koepke]

I am glad I did not read this 40 years ago. Roubo specifies a mallet head that is 85-90 cubic inches of ash or hornbeam, which is a little over two pounds.
[edited]


That wouldn't be much larger than my mallet. 3.5 X 4.5 X 5.5" = 86.625 cubic inches.

Remember, these guys weren't hobbyists, they were working for a living.

jtk

[Charles Guest]

That wouldn't be much larger than my mallet. 3.5 X 4.5 X 5.5" = 86.625 cubic inches.

Remember, these guys weren't hobbyists, they were working for a living.

jtk

The end of your chisel may not like it much, but a 10 oz. or so Warrington delivers wonderfully crisp, concentrated impetus. Our Asian woodworking brethren would have no trouble understanding this.

[Tom M King]

I don't know why, but I find a round head more natural feeling. I don't remember ever miss hitting with one, but when I used to use the more square faced ones, I do remember the handle torquing sometimes, and the marks left on the face were not all in the same place. I haven't had a squarish one for ages. Personal preference, I guess.

A few Summers ago we were working on some sills in a 1798 house. I used a 1-1/2" timber framing chisel, and a 30 oz. Wood is Good mallet for 15 hours in a row over two days-mostly sitting on an upended 5 gallon bucket. Neither my arm, elbow, nor chisel handle suffered a bit from it. If it had been a hard, wooden mallet, I expect all three would have been feeling it.

[Jim Koepke]

The end of your chisel may not like it much, but a 10 oz. or so Warrington delivers wonderfully crisp, concentrated impetus. Our Asian woodworking brethren would have no trouble understanding this.

Only one of my chisels has what could be considered a real hoop at the striking end:

430275

Most of my chisels do not have anything but wood at the striking end:

430276

Light mallet blows on these do not cause problems. The chisels on either end can take a more enthusiastic blow if needed.

jtk

[Warren Mickley]

Quality consistent steel honed at a not too obtuse angle, all supported by good honing media means you don't need a two pound mallet to chop a bloody 1/4" wide mortise. Good Lord man that thing would blot out the sun.

Quit reading these old tomes as if they were Gospel, valid for all time and in all places.

I only mention the historic texts because they reinforce what I know from experience. I have probably made six or eight thousand mortises over the last 45 years. When you bad mouth 18th century workers, you are probably on shaky ground.

[James Pallas]

I would agree that there is much knowledge in history. However innovation did not end in the 18th century. If that were so we would not be having this discussion. Many of us would never have lived as long as we have done. Many great tools and processes have been added to our kits since Mr Roubo wrote his masterpiece.

[Jim Koepke]

Quality consistent steel honed at a not too obtuse angle, all supported by good honing media means you don't need a two pound mallet to chop a bloody 1/4" wide mortise. Good Lord man that thing would blot out the sun.

Quit reading these old tomes as if they were Gospel, valid for all time and in all places.

Well, in my case it was a 24oz (including the handle) mallet for chopping 1/4" mortises:

430321

It worked fine for more than 24 1/4" mortises chopped.

It also seems to work well when chopping 1" mortises.

jtk

[Ron Bontz]

Just my opinion, but I believe what ever century, 16, 17, 18, 20th.... There is no end all tool or method. Master craftsman adapted to what ever they had at their disposal at the time. They used those tools and methods and then passed them on to others. I just use what ever works for my novice self. I only know what I was and continue to be exposed to. No doubt there are as many variants of mallets as there are craftsman. The mallet I use on occasion only has a head size of approx. 2.5" x 5" long and weighs about 24 ounces. Works for me.

[Jim Koepke]

Just my opinion, but I believe what ever century, 16, 17, 18, 20th.... There is no end all tool or method. Master craftsman adapted to what ever they had at their disposal at the time. They used those tools and methods and then passed them on to others. I just use what ever works for my novice self. I only know what I was and continue to be exposed to. No doubt there are as many variants of mallets as there are craftsman. The mallet I use on occasion only has a head size of approx. 2.5" x 5" long and weighs about 24 ounces. Works for me.

Using what is at hand gets the work done faster than waiting for the 'perfect tool' to come along.

It is very easy to attenuate the force my mallets deliver. Some folks prefer to use a Genno to power their chisels. Some of us save a little money and have a little fun by making our own mallets.

My lighter weight mallet would likely make me tired quicker while making my hand, arm and shoulder tired and aching after a day of mortising.

jtk

[steven c newman]

Strange...I was using mine today...
430348
Biggest thing...one does not NEED to "swing for the fences".....just let the hammer do the work...

$7 hammer from Wal E World....Used to both drive chisels, and do a little bit of assembly...

When a "Tack Hammer" will work...why swing a "Sledge Hammer".....

[david charlesworth]

375 gm barrel shaped Japanese hammer works well for me.

David

[Charles Guest]

I only mention the historic texts because they reinforce what I know from experience. I have probably made six or eight thousand mortises over the last 45 years. When you bad mouth 18th century workers, you are probably on shaky ground.

Shop practices varied Warren. Nobody is bad mouthing anybody. You still don't need a two pound mallet to drive a 1/4" mortise chisel, or 5/16", or 3/8" for that matter. Sorry. Can you use one? Of course you can. Do you have to? Of course not. Will speed and quality suffer? No - emphatically no, it will not.

You regurgitate this stuff as if they were edicts set down in stone and they are anything but. Sure, a lot of it makes perfect sense but what doesn't make sense is that a workman isn't allowed his (or her!) preference. It's Moxon's way or the highway. And that's rubbish. We all have access to Moxon, et al. We don't need it administered straight into our veins.

[steven c newman]

Ah...the endless search of the One True Path....the "My Sensei is better than your Sensei"

The "Path" I follow is what works for me....what works for someone else....is THEIR problem/Path....

Some go a-charging at the Windmills of the Perfect Edge....

Meh...too much time on me hands...sitting around, stuck in the house. No Yard Sales to go to, in search of plunder...nothing to do but make sawdust, and plane shavings...

[Phil Mueller]

I still smile when I look at this “first shop made mallet” from probably a decade ago. Made from scraps, it weighs in at 42 oz. It’s filled with #8 shot. It works well, but I don’t use it much just because if the thing decides to break apart, it’s going to be a mess of lead all over.


430396

[Jim Koepke]

Made from scraps, it weighs in at 42 oz.

That does seem a bit on the heavy side. My small sledge is only 3lbs or 48oz.

jtk

[Michael Bulatowicz]

I realize I'm a bit late to the party, here, but for what it's worth I'll throw in another vote for the 20 oz. range. My two favorites are a 20 oz round carving mallet for dovetails and a 650g (23 oz) nylon faced hammer for mortising.

[Jim Koepke]

The end of your chisel may not like it much, but a 10 oz. or so Warrington delivers wonderfully crisp, concentrated impetus. Our Asian woodworking brethren would have no trouble understanding this.


Shop practices varied Warren. Nobody is bad mouthing anybody. You still don't need a two pound mallet to drive a 1/4" mortise chisel, or 5/16", or 3/8" for that matter. Sorry. Can you use one? Of course you can. Do you have to? Of course not. Will speed and quality suffer? No - emphatically no, it will not.
[edited]


My mallets are not two pounders, but for one of my recent endeavors a two pounder may have been better:

430401

A 10oz hammer would not be my preferred tool for a few reasons. It wouldn't do too good at driving the chisel to take off thick chips. The smaller head would not give me a feeling of security while tapping the chisel and keeping my eyes on the work. In other words, the larger head on the mallet compensates in size for what is missing in mass.

Another good reason is a hammer would have to be purchased. My current mallets are made from firewood or wood that grew on my land. Added to this is all of my chisel's handles would have to have hoops installed or suffer getting beat up by a steel hammer.

Surely the woodworkers of centuries past could figure out if their mallet was wearing them out before the end of the day they could make a lighter mallet.

In reflecting on what has transpired, Warren did mention the weight of his mallet at 30oz. He even said:


I am glad I did not read this 40 years ago. Roubo specifies a mallet head that is 85-90 cubic inches of ash or hornbeam, which is a little over two pounds.

My guess may be incorrect, but to me it implies if he read this 40 years ago he may have followed the text and made his mallet heavier than what he did.

Finally, with the same swing (arm motion and time) simple physics tells us the head of a 2lb mallet will deliver more force (foot pounds) to a chisel (or anything else) than a 10oz hammer. (P = F * D / T)

And no, my mallet does not blot out the sun. A simple to make mallet works for many woodworkers and has been doing so for centuries. Just like for centuries our asian counterparts have been using hooped chisels and metal headed hammers.

Why do you insist on telling us we are doing it wrong?

jtk

[Warren Mickley]

There is a reason why 18th century practices are important. The woodworkers at the time turned out a quality product at an astonishing rate. In the 19th century various machines gradually took over the work, skills waned, and quality suffered. Over the last fifty years we have tried to resurrect this tradition. We have been helped by examining old tools, 18th century furniture, and 18th century texts. And by actually doing this kind of work on a daily basis.

One of the respondents to this thread made a video on mortising, which included a hand mortising portion. It was made after a lifetime of using machinery to make mortises. It looks for all the world as if he just a beginner at hand mortising technique. Perhaps he learned to use a mortise chisel just to make the video. Roubo, on the other hand, probably had guys working for him who had made over a hundred mortises a week for thirty years. And were trained by craftsmen with similar experience. You can look to a beginner for guidance if you want.

[steven c newman]

Stick around....I have a BUNCH to chop later, today. By hand, at that. Should I dress up for the occasion ? Or, just jeans and a T-shirt like I always wear....

[Jim Koepke]

Stick around....I have a BUNCH to chop later, today. By hand, at that. Should I dress up for the occasion ? Or, just jeans and a T-shirt like I always wear....

Most of us have never been to a black tie mortising affair. :D

jtk

[steven c newman]

:D:D:D:)
+1......Dress Casual, right?:rolleyes:

[James Pallas]

I use the smaller one up to 3/8” the top one for 7/16” and up.😁

[Tom M King]

For small work, I use a 12oz. one.

For 300 pound stones, a 20 lb. one. The two staked on the ends 4x6's drop a little with each strike, and hold it in.

When none of the "mallets" are heavy enough, we use dumbbells-this one 35 pounds. It helps to have an operator that goes by "Big Mike".

[steven c newman]

About all I needed for today's work...
430506
Seemed to do ok....YMMV

[Graham Haydon]

As mentioned by others I like Thor mallets with ash handles for light work at the bench. I've seen them recomended in old copies of "The Woodworker" and by Richard Maguire and Paul Sellers. Here I am using mine https://www.instagram.com/p/B_DJf0Yp0w5/?igshid=12snqigwuvg14 Feel free to critique! They are good value and I think UK made.

I will need a heavy mallet at some stage and will give Warren's information some careful thought.

[Osvaldo Cristo]

430642

This is my faithful 30+ years old "light" persuader I use with my chisels, except for pairing, of course. All my chisels have either a metal cap or metal ring at back to support metal hammer.

At 450 grams (16 oz) total mass and a 300 mm (12 inches) handle I can easily adjust the necessary power combining the intensity of applied force plus the handle position (closer to the head it is lighter and more controllable). It is a huge range of possibilities.

[Jim Koepke]

This is my faithful 30+ years old "light" persuader

American Genno? :eek:

jtk

[Osvaldo Cristo]

American Genno? :eek:

jtk

No, Brazilian one! :D