Spokeshave question

[Ben Darrah]

I recently set up Stanley 51 and Stanley 53 spokeshaves that I rescued at an auction. I just wanted to ensure that the blades are supposed to be bevel down. A lot of the pics online show them bevel up. Thanks in advance.

[Mark Gibney]

I use both of those tools bevel down.
I guess they could be used bevel up in some situations? I haven't tried that.

[Jim Ritter]

Look for the name on the blade (if there is one) it should be up and visible. That should answer your question, no matter what shave you come across.
Jim

[Rob Luter]

Bevel down. Otherwise it's a scraper.

[Ben Darrah]

Ok, Thanks guys that makes sense. Hand tools are not my strong suit, but I'm trying to learn them to advance my overall woodworking skills. I replaced both blades with a Hock blade for the 51, and a used 1 from ebay for the 53. Both are tuned and seem to be cutting well. Now I just got wait for my back surgery to really try them out.

[lowell holmes]

Hand tools will be your strong suit.

[John Keeton]

Ben, I have used hand tools most of my 55 years of woodworking. But, actual use of spokeshaves is a fairly new activity for me. I had a low angle shave for many years, but rarely used it. Since undertaking a build of a comb back Windsor, I have acquired several Stanleys. I have the 53 and it works well, but my go to shaves seem to be a 151 and the 51. While the 51 is easily adjusted on the fly, I keep it set for a very light cut and the 151 set just a bit heavier. They have worked really well in doing the oak spindles for the chair. It has been very enjoyable learning them and getting comfortable with using them. I also have Hock blades in all my shaves for which they are available. I know that proper tuning with a Stanley blade works, I do like the extra stiffness of the thicker blade.

[Bob Jones 5443]

I picked up first a US 151 on eBay and next an English 151R from Tooltique last year — both with their original Stanley blades. I’ve honed and polished both blades and they cut nicely, but like the mid-level woodworker I am I bought Hock blades for both tools when I was up in Ft. Bragg.

Now the dilemma: the Hock blades are so thick that the mouth is almost entirely closed up. Not knowing what to do next I put the Stanleys back in. The Hocks are in my blade box waiting for insight to descend upon me.

[John Keeton]

Bob, did you level the bed for the blade? If that isn’t enough, it is easy to open the mouth with a flat diamond file from Harbor Freight. The shave isn’t supposed to take a thick shaving, so it doesn’t take much mouth. Both my 151 and 51 work really well with the Hock blades.

[Ben Darrah]

Thanks John, I had to file the mouth of the 51 a bit to open it for the hock blade. This is why I opted for a second hand Stanley blade for the 53.

[Bob Jones 5443]

Bob, did you level the bed for the blade? If that isn’t enough, it is easy to open the mouth with a flat diamond file from Harbor Freight. The shave isn’t supposed to take a thick shaving, so it doesn’t take much mouth. Both my 151 and 51 work really well with the Hock blades.

John,

Level the bed? Do you mean the somewhat flat surface that the back side of the blade rests on? That's painted, so I can't imagine that needs to be machined.

Or do you mean the sole? The sole is flat and clean, and there's lots of clearance in both shaves when the Stanley blades are in them. But the geometry just doesn't seem to be right to fit the Hock blades. The bevel edge of the blade just dead-ends into the cast iron in the front of the mouth when I advance the blade. I can visualize that by filing the mouth I could create clearance, but is this what's required to use the Hock blade? I'm not comfortable having to modify a vintage tool to fit a thick modern iron. Ron Hock says nothing about that when he sells you the blade, either. I assume you're right –– I can see no other way to make this blade work –– but I'm reluctant. I might just go back to the Stanley blades: good tool steel, meticulously honed and polished.

You may recall that my first spokeshave last year was the Boggs curved sole, a high-precision tool. I had a devil of a time taming it, although I ultimately met with some success. The key motivator in getting the 151 and 151R is that they have much more clearance for shavings: easier for me to use. I'd be willing to bet that I'm just revealing my lack of skill with this tool by wanting more clearance, but is lots of clearance in a spokeshave a bad thing? Does it limit what the tool can do? I don't see why, unless a very tight mouth reduces tearout.

I'm out of my depth so far with spokeshaves. It seems I've reaped a tiny sliver of what they are capable of providing. I'm eager to learn my way around them the way I've done with bench planes. It's likely that many of the principles apply to both tool types.

[John Keeton]

Yes, the flat area the blade rests on. The problem with some shaves is that they are castings and that area is often not truly smooth and flat. If the blade is riding on “the humps “ it can cause chatter and keep the blade from seating properly - even the factory blade. It can also push the blade forward. As far as modifying a vintage tool, I understand that feeling, but with a common model of spokeshave one isn’t usually dealing with an irreplaceable item, nor an expensive one. And, it won’t harm the tool. The 151 has a lot of sole and removing a 32nd or even a 16th of the front of the mouth won’t cause any issues. Besides, often the mouth is not cast “true” and opening it up a bit provides an opportunity to even it out.

All that said, I am sure you can get good service from the Stanley blade. The Hock blades should sell easily.

[Jim Koepke]

Level the bed? Do you mean the somewhat flat surface that the back side of the blade rests on? That's painted, so I can't imagine that needs to be machined.

Bob, This may help explain a little about the bedding of a spokeshave > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?153938

It may even help if just the paint (japanning) is removed from the bed.

jtk

[Bob Jones 5443]

Yes, the flat area the blade rests on. The problem with some shaves is that they are castings and that area is often not truly smooth and flat. If the blade is riding on “the humps “ it can cause chatter and keep the blade from seating properly - even the factory blade. It can also push the blade forward. As far as modifying a vintage tool, I understand that feeling, but with a common model of spokeshave one isn’t usually dealing with an irreplaceable item, nor an expensive one. And, it won’t harm the tool. The 151 has a lot of sole and removing a 32nd or even a 16th of the front of the mouth won’t cause any issues. Besides, often the mouth is not cast “true” and opening it up a bit provides an opportunity to even it out.

All that said, I am sure you can get good service from the Stanley blade. The Hock blades should sell easily.

John, thanks for clarifying. As skittish as I am about filing the mouth, flattening the bed sounds much more challenging (although I can see how it might reduce chatter). I don't think I have the right tools to flatten an angled surface from "above." I don't even have a file thin or sharp enough to file the mouth. Can anyone specify a file for me? And if the bed-flattening procedure is easier than it sounds to me, can you recommend the best way to do it?

As I recently said to Ron Hock, I came to work wood, not metal, but lately I've come to see how the two are related. By the way, he says he hasn't heard of anyone having the edge-to-mouth jamming problem before.

[Jim Koepke]

I don't even have a file thin or sharp enough to file the mouth. Can anyone specify a file for me? And if the bed-flattening procedure is easier than it sounds to me, can you recommend the best way to do it?

An auger file should be thin enough. Industrial tool suppliers or welding supply shops will carry thin files for working on the bed.

https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/sharpening/files-and-hones/70693-auger-bit-file


As I recently said to Ron Hock, I came to work wood, not metal, but lately I've come to see how the two are related. By the way, he says he hasn't heard of anyone having the edge-to-mouth jamming problem before.

If you can post images it could help with figuring out what is going on.

jtk

[John Keeton]

Try this - https://www.harborfreight.com/needle-file-set-10-pc-69876.html

$7 and I use them for all kinds of things, including what we are talking about.