$5k to start my woodshop

[Scott Winter]

Hey all,

So I am getting ready to move to a new (and larger) house. Currently live in a townhouse with no garage, so I've never been able to build my own woodshop. My new space will have a two car garage which is about 20x20 in space. Ideally I would still like the ability to park a car in the one garage at times, so my stuff will mainly be on the one side. Everything I make will be on wheels, so moving things around for when I need to park the car in the garage shouldn't be a huge deal.

Anyways, I am essentially starting from scratch. I have a good portion of supporting tools. Cordless drills, drivers, saw, nailer, sanders, chisels, bench planes etc.

I'm giving myself a budget of $5k, and outside of a table saw I'm not sure which additional larger tools I should focus on. I'm already prepared to buy a 1.75hp Sawstop PCS. I've done a ton of research, and this seems to be the best long term investment for my shop. Since I'll mainly be doing household type furniture type builds this saw seems to offer exactly what I need, but also have the capability to do more on the occasion that I'd need more oomph. I figure after that purchase plus the mobile base that will leave another $2k left in my budget unless I manage to find a Sawstop used where I can save some money. I know there is an argument to be made with buying a track saw, and putting more towards other tools, but I've definitely made up my mind about the PCS.

Dust collection would be a logical choice. I was leaning towards the HF 2HP, and modify it with a larger impeller. That's about $3-400 with hoses, clamps, etc.

Beyond that the possibilities are endless. Miter saw? Band saw? Planer? Router table? HELP!!

My scope of work will consist of rough lumber and sheet goods. I'll mainly build house furniture.

[David M Peters]

Sheet goods can be broken down into rough dimensions with a straight edge & a circular saw. If you're intent on using rough-sawn lumber then you're going to need a way to joint & plane it. I have a 12" jointer/planer combo but there are plenty of other ways out there to solve this problem.

Skip the miter saw until you start a deck or flooring project, the table saw will be good for accurate crosscuts.

A router & router table will make furniture projects a lot easier. But you can make a simple router table by mounting a fixed base upside down to a flat surface - look up "poor man's router table".

[Mike Kees]

I would suggest buying as much as possible used. With the budget you have you could have a complete shop this way. As far as what to buy and in what order that is up to you. What a lot of people would tell you is buy things only as you need them for a project you are building,this is real sound advice. For basic furniture building the trifecta of a table saw,jointer and planer give you solid wood stock that is square and flat . What do you want to build first ? Work from there.

[Erik Loza]

...My scope of work will consist of rough lumber and sheet goods. I'll mainly build house furniture.

So, those two things are pretty opposite on the spectrum of woodworking. You'll never need a bandsaw for building cabinets and you won't need a track saw if you plan to build chairs. There could be some overlap but since your budget is pretty tight, I would try to narrow the scope of my goals. Can you give a more specific example of what you want first project to be?

Erik

[Scott Winter]

So, those two things are pretty opposite on the spectrum of woodworking. You'll never need a bandsaw for building cabinets and you won't need a track saw if you plan to build chairs. There could be some overlap but since your budget is pretty tight, I would try to narrow the scope of my goals. Can you give a more specific example of what you want first project to be?

Erik

$5k is my starting budget. I do plan on adding to my shop over time. I would like to begin making end tables, and work my way up to a coffee table, and eventually a dining room sized table.

Eventually, I would like to build all new kitchen cabinets, but that is probably 2-3 years down the road.

[Scott Winter]

I would suggest buying as much as possible used. With the budget you have you could have a complete shop this way. As far as what to buy and in what order that is up to you. What a lot of people would tell you is buy things only as you need them for a project you are building,this is real sound advice. For basic furniture building the trifecta of a table saw,jointer and planer give you solid wood stock that is square and flat . What do you want to build first ? Work from there.

Used will definitely be my first avenue of choice! I live in Lancaster, PA so there is a pretty high woodworking population here.

[Erik Loza]

$5k is my starting budget. I do plan on adding to my shop over time. I would like to begin making end tables, and work my way up to a coffee table, and eventually a dining room sized table.

Eventually, I would like to build all new kitchen cabinets, but that is probably 2-3 years down the road.

For now: Bandsaw (big as you can afford), jointer, and planer. You may not need a table saw at all but if you do, a contractor saw should be fine. A big table saw probably won't be necessary. I would not over-think the dust collection. Any single-bagger should get you by. Hope this helps,

Erik

[Sam Shankar]

I would like to begin making end tables, and work my way up to a coffee table, and eventually a dining room sized table.

Then you will either need to buy pre-dimensioned lumber or you will need a way to flatten and square boards. I would suggest picking up an inexpensive 12" lunchbox planer (~$500 new) that you can upgrade to a helical head later.

I would also suggest a jointer. You can get a used 6" jointer with regular knives reasonably easily. But I have been happy that I spent the money up front to buy an 8" helical head jointer ($1500). From what I can tell, the 6" jointers don't hold their value well--new or used. You can also do what I'm doing and learn to flatten boards with a hand plane. But I do that to learn by making mistakes. If I am actually trying to build something in a reasonable amount of time, I plug in the jointer!

Don't forget a benchtop drill press. Inexpensive but really important at times.

[Alex Zeller]

The standard style dust collectors are pretty easy to find used. People are upgrading to the vortex style so they get rid of their older one. The same is true for 6" jointers. I think I would try to focus down a little and then as you expand you can pick and choose which tool will be the best fit. Also if you stick with s4s lumber you can get by without a planer and jointer for now.

[ChrisA Edwards]

I kind of started the same way as you. I bought the 1.75 SawStop and later upgraded the motor to the 3Hp 240V unit about 3 years later. I've been very pleased with this saw. I bought the industrial mobile base as I had to move my saw each day to allow my wife to park her car. The mobile base is wonderful, don't scrimp on this.

I have a couple of Forrest blades for the SawStop, one is a 40T Combo Woodworker II and the other is a 24T rip blade. This gives me a glue line finish cut which isn't quite as good as a jointer, but if you don't have a jointer, will suffice.

I made a cheap straight line rip jig which again gets you to a nice straight working edge. With this I can rip rough sawn boards and get that edge to dimension from.

I bought a Jet DC and converted it over to a 2 stage, my cost for this was about $900. I initially used Schedule 20 6" sewer pipe and put about 30' of this in with two drops down to 4" blast gates. When I moved, I installed 5' metal pipe from Home Depot.

I bought a DeWalt 735 planer and this worked well.

As time moved on, I then started adding other tools as the budget allowed.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlypo69JsdA

[George Yetka]

The way most seam to start is to pick a small project and figure out what you need to build it. Things will be upgraded over time but I try my best to not to buy things i know i wont use in the future.

For end tables you could get buy with a kreg jig, drill set, sander, and maybe 3-4 clamps. Depends on the design I suppose. Start there and then next project add what you need.

[Patrick Kane]

$3,000 on a 1.75 hp table saw wouldnt be my first choice--or ever a choice i would make--but thats why it's your money and not mine! With that said, i think EVERY shop needs three tools--table saw, jointer, and planer. On top of that, if you are making furniture, then i think you need two more tools--band saw and router table/shaper. If you only ever wanted to make cabinets and built ins, then i think you could skip the bandsaw. In fact, i went years without owning a bandsaw. They are amazingly versatile tools, but you can build a lot without them.

How i would spend your budget
- $1,000 on a used unisaw or PM66
- $1,000 used 8" jointer like a dj-20, older dovetail way powermatic, or the grizzly clone of the dj-20.
- $500 on a DW735. Great little machine that you wont outgrow anytime soon
- $500 on a router table. Id hope to get a used incra setup or used jessem setup
- $300-500 on single stage dust collector. Its not a health thing, but it helps to get your workspace tidy. These come up used all the time for a couple hundred. I think i bought one for $100-150 years ago.
- $400-500 on a used 14" saw. If I was fortunate enough, i would really be looking for a 18-20" saw in the $1000-1500 range. That will be a rare deal, however, so be realistic.
-$1000 on clamps, wood, other miscellaneous shop stuff. You will need to build a work surface early on. A good miter gauge is helpful to own. Dado stack is worthwhile. saw blades and router bits. This last $1,000 will go quickly, unfortunately. All crucial stuff for working effectively.

[Rod Sheridan]

Step 1 is dust collection, if you're going to move things around then a portable 2 HP dust collector with a HEPA filter would be a good place to start.

I would guess that would take up $1K

Step 2 since you want to make solid wood furniture would be a band saw and jointer and planer.

As others have said, skip the mitre saw.

A method of making mortises will also be required so a benchtop mortiser, maybe $500 or do them by hand with a chisel and mallet.

You will also need chisels, hand planes, layout tools and a method of sharpening these tools.

You'll typically need a method of making dado, rebates and grooves which would be easiest with a table saw or router..........Rod.

[Ken Kortge]

Scott, check out Steve Ramsey 's Weekend Workshop online course. It's his version of how to make a flexible workable small woodworking shop. As you'll see from the replies here, there are as many viewpoints as there are variations of experiences.

https://woodworkingformeremortals.com/learn-woodworking/

[Jim Becker]

Instead of approaching things from a "here's my budget" standpoint...zero in on what you absolutely must have for that first project. Why? Because you'll waste less money that way. And don't forget hand tools. Those and the skills they use are really important even when one is primarily machine based. Being in the habit early will greatly improve your work over time. Many smaller "first" projects don't really require big machinery, but they do benefit from the finesse work that hand tools bring. And yea...a proper, level and flat work surface is NOT optional. It doesn't have to be fancy, but it does need to be flat, level and sturdy.

[Marc Fenneuff]

Step 1 is dust collection, if you're going to move things around then a portable 2 HP dust collector with a HEPA filter would be a good place to start.

Agree, I wouldn't move into a new space without first planning for dust collection.

I'd start with the SawStop, a DC, and a router. Make a crosscut sled for the TS as your first project. Build a dedicated table or TS extension for the router as your second project. Add tools as you start to extend your reach. I use my CMS frequently and added a thickness planer last year. On the horizon for me are a drill press and then a jointer. Maybe a track saw.

Don't undersize the DC, either. Do some calculations and buy it once.

[Richard Coers]

It would help to know if you plan to cut up a lot of plywood and make cabinets, or work mostly in hardwood and intend to build furniture, or do turning and a little craft work.

[Mark Hockenberg]

Jim stole my thunder as usual. The best advise is to buy tools based on what and how you build. Don't but anything because you think you will use it. Second, don't compromise on your purchases. The tools I bought that were just so-so are all gone now and have been replaced with quality. Better to save up and wait.

[Jake Hillestad]

If I'm spending your money it looks like this:

Band saw - preferably cast, minimum 16" but 20"+ would be more better
Planer - definately cast, 12" - straight knives
Router Table & Lift - pick your poison (Incra is very nice)

At that point assess remaining budget and needs. Dust collection, probably next move. If you decide you can't live without a table saw that would be my next move - however, under no circumstances would I drop Saw Stop money - much better vintage options out there for much less. Won't touch the safety aspect other than to say if you can't run a table saw safely you don't have any business around the rest (which doesn't have SS tech).

Down the road further a 12" jointer (in the mean time you can use your hand planes to get a flat enough reference surface to run through your planer). Next, depending on how you build I'd be looking towards a stand alone mortising tool (Domino or Hollow chisel).

[johnny means]

if you can't run a table saw safely you don't have any business around the rest



:rolleyes:

[Greg Parrish]

For now: Bandsaw (big as you can afford), jointer, and planer. You may not need a table saw at all but if you do, a contractor saw should be fine. A big table saw probably won't be necessary. I would not over-think the dust collection. Any single-bagger should get you by. Hope this helps,

Erik

id second this. I say all the time I could build most of what I do with a decent sized jointer/planer, a decent sized band saw and a router. Toss in a track saw and a basic dust collector and you’d have a nice start that fits in a single garage bay.

don’t forget a work bench/table.

[Bill Dufour]

Watch craiglist for used breaker panels, all the same make, I would have at least one sub panel on the opposite end of the shop from the main service panel. Also watch for heavy cable at least #8 to supply the sub panel. You may want a 50 amp welder, car charger outlet some day.
I recommend Square D, QO panels and breakers. Still being made and the 1955 breakers fit fine. It is cheaper to install a GFCI receptacle and daisy chain off it then to buy a GFCI breaker.
Bil lD

[Scott Winter]

Instead of approaching things from a "here's my budget" standpoint...zero in on what you absolutely must have for that first project. Why? Because you'll waste less money that way. And don't forget hand tools. Those and the skills they use are really important even when one is primarily machine based. Being in the habit early will greatly improve your work over time. Many smaller "first" projects don't really require big machinery, but they do benefit from the finesse work that hand tools bring. And yea...a proper, level and flat work surface is NOT optional. It doesn't have to be fancy, but it does need to be flat, level and sturdy.

That's a fantastic point, Jim! I might zero in on the first 2-3 projects instead of just the first one. They're all on the "honey-do" list, so none are optional :D

I guess technically my first "project" is going to be an outfeed/assembly table. I've been watching some youtube videos on some ideas, and a torsion box assembly table seems to fit the bill.

[Bill Dufour]

For a gfci outlet I prefer to have the gfci inside and daisy chain to a outside outlet. It is a little less convenient but the gfci stays nice and dry and does not fail from moisture. I have had two fail from moisture under proper weather resistant covers. there is no snow or ice and only 15 inches of rain here in about four months total rainy season.
Bill D.

[Andrew Seemann]

I'm not going to give recommendations, other than to get things as you need them. And to accept the fact outright that you are going to sometimes acquire the wrong tool or at the wrong level of quality. We all do. That is how we learn what we should have done. I don't know that I did the right things in acquiring my tools. I know I definitely made some mistakes. And I will likely make more in the future.

Rather than make recommendations, which will likely not match your interests or needs, I'll just describe what my early shop years were like. I know I didn't do everything right, but I didn't know any better at the time either:)

My first all-my-own-tools shop (mid 1990s) consisted of my dad's old 1956 9" Craftsman table saw with a 1hp motor and a slightly wobbly arbor, an old 1940's Craftsman stationary scroll saw, one of those gawd-awful Craftsman 6" jointers with the non-adjustable outfeed table, and a 1948 Delta drill press the old man resurrected from the dead. I had a maroon Stanley block plane and some Sears chisels and a few clamps, and that was about it for woodworking tools. I did have a fair amount of mechanic's tools and a good Milwaukee 3/8 drill.

And yet with that assortment of tools, one that most here would probably leave on the side of the road. I made quite a bit of furniture--still used in my house-- both with solid wood and sheet goods. I think my first acquisitions were a Craftsman circular saw, scroll saw, and a Milwaukee cordless drill. After a while I bought a set of blue plastic handled Marples wood chisels and picked up a Defiance smoothing plane. I had worked in shops at the University while at school, so I was familiar with Unisaws and industrial level tools, but they were leagues out of my budget at the time.

My first "big" purchase was a new 1996 14" Delta cast iron saw from the famous, but now defunct 7 Corner's Hardware (local to me) at one of their tent sales. There used to be an unusually good used tool store locally, and I picked up things used here and there, like a 70s 1/4" B&D router, bits of tooling, clamps, and other assorted items.

When I started trying to do Mission style furniture in white oak (up to then I had just used pine and 2x material), I realized that the 9" saw with its 1hp motor wasn't up to the challenge. I acquired a used 1968 Rockwell Unisaw in need of a serious rebuilding. I had considered getting a new 10" Jet 3hp cabinet saw, but back then I thought that "old arn" was automatically better than "imported Asian junk" That was probably my first big purchase mistake. I rebuilt the Unisaw, swapped out the 3 phase motor for a single phase one, and enjoyed a massive upgrade over the old saw. I ended up spending basically the same as the new Jet, but the fact is the Unisaw was in rough shape; the miter slots were worn, and the top had a 1/16" dip in the center. The new Jet would have been a much smarter purchase. (despite that, I used that saw until about 2 years ago at which time I combined it with another parts-Unisaw in much better shape).

I also stared using rough lumber at this point and picked up a 12" Powermatic bench top planer. After coming down with Red Cedar Asthma, I realized the importance of dust collection and bought a used 1 HP Jet dust collector. A 10" Makita SCMS also appeared, along with various smaller tools, like a router for a router table, RO sanders, biscuit jointer, and the like. Clamps were picked up as needed, along with chisels and hand tools, and I built my first Frid bench, along with my assembly/outfeed table.

Fast forward a few years and I am in the new house and have built my first all-my-own space, a fourteen and a half by twenty one foot shop with a nine foot ceiling. Someone knew someone who was moving to England on the quick and needed to unload their woodshop fast. The old man and I went over, looked at everything and gave a low but fair offer that reflected the fact that neither of us really "needed" anything offered for sale. I ended up with a 6" open stand Jet jointer and some assorted other tools. The old man got a drill press, 13" Delta Planer, and my brother got a 10" Delta contractor saw. I upgraded the Powermatic planer to a 3HP Grizzly 15" when I decided to make white pine bevel siding for the house, rationalizing that it was cheaper than buying new cedar siding (it was) and the the Powermatic probably couldn't handle it (it probably could have, but man I like that Grizzly). The 1hp collector could not keep up with the 15" planer, so I upgraded to a 3hp Oneida cyclone.

I'll stop there. I have since moved out to the exurbs and built a 24' x 28' shop. I've picked up and inherited more stationary tools since then, and bought about 3 dozen planes, and several sets of chisels, and shelves full of tooing. I mostly wanted to give an idea of how a 25+ year shop journey went. I don't know if acquired the right things in the right order; I probably will never know. The point is, you don't have to start out with everything, and get the best of everything. I certainly didn't have that kind kind of budget, and 3 kids later, I still don't:)

[Ron Selzer]

"Won't touch the safety aspect other than to say if you can't run a table saw safely you don't have any business around the rest (which doesn't have SS tech)"

Obviously you are perfect and have never made a mistake or accident. So therefore you don't have any need for insurance on your automobiles, house or anything else you own.

The rest of us people on this planet are human and make mistakes, have lapses of attention and are not perfect in every way!

[Carroll Courtney]

I think that a person should deal with one machine at a time and not look for a complete shop overnight. Since most would say that TS should be front and center I would focus on just that getting it setup with out feed tables,router station and maybe cabinets underneath. Yep you can make your cabinets under the out feed table but HF sells tool cabinets with drawers pretty dang cheap and don't have to paint them. I know some don't care for miter saws but I like them, lets say your building yourself a good entertainment center and you want to embellish it with crown or some fancy trim. Nothing better than a good 45 with that perfect miter,I also like to use stair balusters on corners of maybe entertainment center or maybe Mantel. Again miter saw would help out,but you can but those folding stands for miter saw so when not in use you be able to put it away. Myself I have a miter saw work station,which I use it lot when I was going at it. Now another area of woodworking that is often over look is finishing.What about spray equipment,which there is a wide range of prices. So that should take care of your budget.
Now if you should go with a good ole Unisaw or a older PM66 you will be able to go little farther with your budget.

[Nike Nihiser]

There's a 5 hp PM 66 on Craigslist in your area for $1500 0b0 with some extras. I would be very interested in that. (I have a PM 66 and love it), There's also a Bridgewood 15 inch planer for $695, don't know anything about them. I believe there was also a PM bandsaw same seller as planer

[Thomas McCurnin]

You'll get a lot of opinions here, many contradictory, so evaluate them with the idea that there is no right or wrong--there are many ways of building stuff using many different tools and each of us has their own method.

First, I'd get the biggest and baddest table saw that you can afford right now. I agree with the much maligned comment that if you don't know how to safely operate a table saw, then a SawStop won't save you. I agree with Mike that there are bigger, better and cheaper table saws out there on the used market for under $1,500 like a Unisaw, Oliver, Powermatic, General and the like. Just look at Craigslist over the next few months and don't be in a hurry. I would add three things to your table saw which I think are essential. (1) An attached outfeed table. HTC makes one, and you can make your own. Its great for sheet goods and long lumber. (2) As you mentioned, a mobile base. Again, HTC is a good brand. (2) Remove one of the saw wings and substitute a router table. There are a few models which work for SawStop. One of my first projects would be to make a couple cross cut sleds, a large one and smaller one for small pieces. Make them dead 100% accurate. Lots of videos on them but William Ng made the best one, accurate to 4 thousands of an inch. A good cross cut sled may spare you the expense of a miter saw station, by the way.

Second, a bandsaw. This is, other than hand tools, the safest cutting tool in the shop. A small 14", while not capable of re-sawing, will serve you well and is my third most used power tool, simply because it is so safe. You can find these used for under $1,000 on Craigslist easy.

Third, a miter saw. This is my second most used tool in the shop for cross cuts. As noted above, if you make a couple cross cut sleds, this might not be necessary.

Fourth, hand tools. I'd buy new, not used, Lie-Neilsen planes (No. 4 or 5) and a No. 7 Jointer Plane. You then can avoid buying a planer and joiner. Invest in some good chisels (imperial size like Veritas), three hand saws (rip, crosscut and dovetail). Buy a grinder to sharpen them and some water stones, running from 200 to 1000 grit. Sharp tools are safe tools. I would take a class in hand tool sharpening and hand tools. You are lucky, there are several good schools in your area like Lohr and the Pennsylvania Guild. When I was 14 years old, I worked with a carpenter who could build an entire house using a wooden tool chest filled with 2 saws, 3 planes, a dozen chisels, and layout tools. If you want cheap and compact, hand tools are a great option, and they are much safer and you don't need dust collection. There is a guy on this site named Mike Allen who has a shop in a one car garage, with a car and builds incredible furniture using only hand tools. Do a search for some of his posts. You may want to PM and set up a call.

I would not buy a planer or joiner. Your hardwood supplier will have both and they will be super big and accurate, and they can thickness plane and joint the wood for you. In a pinch, use your hand tools.

Bill had a good suggestion which is to wire your shop for 240v. Most good power tools run off 240v. Also, Rod and Marc had a good suggestion to plan now for dust collection.

[Jake Hillestad]

"Won't touch the safety aspect other than to say if you can't run a table saw safely you don't have any business around the rest (which doesn't have SS tech)"

Obviously you are perfect and have never made a mistake or accident. So therefore you don't have any need for insurance on your automobiles, house or anything else you own.

The rest of us people on this planet are human and make mistakes, have lapses of attention and are not perfect in every way!

Uh, yeah, sure - very cogent argument you've put forth. I wish you and your Saw Stop well....hopefully its the only machine you use as a crutch to compensate for your lapses in attention.

OP - lots of good advice, good luck with your search.

[Frank Pratt]

Uh, yeah, sure - very cogent argument you've put forth. I wish you and your Saw Stop well....hopefully its the only machine you use as a crutch to compensate for your lapses in attention.

OP - lots of good advice, good luck with your search.

Someone's a little sensitive.

[Andrew Seemann]

Uh, yeah, sure - very cogent argument you've put forth. I wish you and your Saw Stop well....hopefully its the only machine you use as a crutch to compensate for your lapses in attention.

OP - lots of good advice, good luck with your search.

I have a few fingers that desperately wish that technology would have been on my stationary belt sander when my concentration lapsed for half a second. Fortunately they healed up, for the most part:)

[johnny means]

Someone's a little sensitive. Or doesn't know any actual data about shop accidents.

[Thomas McCurnin]

I have a few fingers that desperately wish that technology would have been on my stationary belt sander when my concentration lapsed for half a second. Fortunately they healed up, for the most part:)

There is no question that SawStops save fingers. There is also no question table saws don't cause mangled fingers--people with errant brains do. Your comment made me remember Jim Tolpin's chapter on woodworking injuries from his book "Woodworking Wit and Wisdom." So I had to retrieve it from the library and scan this picture.

If you don't know where your hands are in relationship to the blade or device, or where the blade or bit will exit, then stop and think it over and perhaps use a pushstick, another device, or a different tool.

If you have your mind on something other than the dangerous cut you are about to make, then it is time call it quits and perform the operation another day.

I am scared to death of my power tools and intend to keep it that way.

[Pete Staehling]

I'd advise figuring out what you want to build and buying the tools that you need to build it. Used tools are often a great way to extend the budget.

For me the table saw isn't at the top of the list. I own one and use it, but it definitely wouldn't be the first thing I'd but is starting out. I'd buy a bandsaw before a table saw for sure, but that is for my work.

As far as table saw injuries, sawstop, and all that.... Over the last 5 plus decades I have had way too many shop accidents and emergency room visits, but none were related to the table saw. I respect the saw enough that I don't think I am ever going to let my fingers contact a spinning blade. It seems to me that sawstop should have licensed their technology at an affordable enough price to make it available in a wider more general market. It is their choice and they are in business to make money, but I suspect they could have made plenty with a liberal licensing model and made their technology more widely available. In any case I am not inclined to buy sawstop myself. I trust myself to use the saw safely as I have for the last 5 plus decades. If on a budget you can buy a lot of saw for a lot less $$$ if you can trust yourself to use it safely.

[Jim Becker]

STOP the personal attacks in this discussion, folks. That's not what this place is about. Provide an opinion if you have one...nicely.

Jim
Forum Moderator

[Ron Citerone]

A little bit of advice that was given to me about buying used machines/tools. BE PATIENT AND WAIT FOR A DEAL ON WHAT YOU WANT. Don’t marry the first girl you kiss. ( Jim I hope I didn’t offend anybody!). 🤣

[Frank Pratt]

STOP the personal attacks in this discussion, folks. That's not what this place is about. Provide an opinion if you have one...nicely.

Jim
Forum Moderator

Guilty as charged and apologies, Dad.;)

[Sam Shankar]

Take "buy used" with a major grain of salt.

Many experienced woodworkers think this advice is obvious and that beginners who ignore it are wasting their money or buying inferior tools. "You should buy used" definitely makes sense for experienced folks who know how to evaluate a used purchase, how to fix minor problems, and who maybe don't need to rely on that tool right away. But for beginners it can be a major waste of time. Yes, there are benefits, but experienced woodworkers shouldn't ignore the opportunity cost of time spent learning how tools work and how to fix them. That cost comes in the form of less time learning how to *use* tools to *build* things.

Virtually every used tool I have purchased has taken me on an unpredictable learning journey. Sometimes that journey has been valuable, but it's almost always inefficient. Just a couple examples:


I bought a used 10" Jet bandsaw. And struggled to make straight cuts, blamed my technique, and wasted a bunch of time before learning what a difference smooth bearings, good tires, and sharp blades make. Okay, those were good lessons, but I learned them painfully and slowly, and spent a lot of money and time on the wrong fixes first.
I bought a used Dewalt 735 planer. And learned that tool circuit breakers go bad, that unwaxed tables (or loose table plates) can cause those problems, and that you can replace individual shelix teeth but that this can cause its own problems. Again, good learning, but expensive in time and money.
I have bought several used planes. And am trying to learn how a well-tuned plane should work and how to get these used planes into that shape.


If I had been an experienced woodworker, I would have recognized problems with those tools immediately, diagnosed them properly, and fixed them quickly. As a beginner, I spun my wheels a lot. So I'm glad that I bought a new table saw and jointer. I know that when those aren't working right, the problem is almost certainly with me.

Note that for some less finicky things--dust collectors, spindle sanders etc--where problems are obvious and subpar performance isn't a huge issue, used makes more sense.

[Bob Riefer]

OP - You've gotten a nice array of advice from woodworkers further down the path than I am... but maybe my not-quite-newbie/not-yet-woodworking-god perspective is helpful too :-)

I took the approach of buying used equipment for most of my needs. In many cases, this is pennies on the dollar.

Some examples:
- My first cabinet saw was a 3 hp Grizzly 1023, and really served me well for 10 years. I paid $400, later sold for $500 (cleaned up, new belts, new arbor assembly).
- First jointer was a Ridgid 6" x 46", also served me well enough for 10 years. Paid $200, later sold for $300 (cleaned up, new knives).
- My existing bandsaw is a Grizzly G0555 14" going strong for over 10 years. Paid $200, and then the same guy sold me my walker turner drill press for $100.

I could go on.. but my points are:
- You can get a real steal on price while you learn whether you want something else later (e.g. I recently upgraded the table saw and jointer).
- If you change your mind later, re-selling equipment is pretty easy, and often you can make a "profit" just by cleaning and tuning the machine.


So, I've really learned a lot through this approach overall.

That said... when it comes to dust collection, I'd go bigger right out of the gate. 3 hp minimum, cyclone of some sort (I did Super Dust Deputy XL), 6 inch pipe for as much as possible (I used PVC and a mix of bought and built blast gates).

Again, the used route is worth looking into. I paid $300 for my 3 hp DC. Bought my PVC at a supply specialist for about 1/2 the price of the big box stores.

All told, with HVAC, my entire shop is probably over your $5K number, but is easily under $10,000 (cabinet saw, router table, miter saw, dust collection, band saw, 8" jointer, lunchbox planer, floor drill press, belt/disc sanding station, air compressor and nailers, spray equipment, bunch of handheld power tools, decent collection of hand tools, mini-split heating and cooling, various assembly tables / storage options / lighting)

[Dave Sabo]

Get a mitersaw ! Every homeowner can use one, not just those doing woodwork. Crown sux on tablesaws. Can't believe guys suggest forgoing one. They are cheap and handy.

Get a jointer early as you can. Hand planes will work , but you won't want to use them for jointing and flattening any more than you'd want to use Disston handsaw to cut your material. Planer if you can swing it with the jointer.

Get a good router sooner. I'd suggest a trimmer like DeWalt DW611. Good for edges, small mortises, inlays, dovetails, dadoes, and cutouts. Get a medium combo kit when you need a router table and you'll then have 90% of the bases covered.

What kind of furniture ? You might need a lathe - in which case your budget is thin.

I'd suggest ponying up for a really good sander like festool, mirka or surfprep upfront. 3-5x the cost will seem silly when the depot has one at 59bucks, but trust me. Your arm and hand will thank you for years to come. Suck up the big cost of a companion tool activated vacuum at the same time. Festool is arguably the best but Makita is almost as good for hundreds less. If you can find a FLEX for $200-$400 - that's the hands down winner for the price. At full cost, get the makita or festool.

The HF collector is a great value with a wynn filter and a Thien Baffle. The Delta 50-760 is also easily upgraded and can be had for $100=$250 used. A cyclone and fixed ducting wouldn't be my choice for a space I shared with a car.



This isn't what you're set on; but I'd give it serious consideration. For 60% of your budget, you'd have the big 4 all covered with little need for upgrade in the future. Mortiser is a bonus. Takes up relatively little space and is moved pretty easily. Big bonus for a space you share with a car. A slider will be much better to work with for cabinets.


https://philadelphia.craigslist.org/tls/d/absecon-table-saw/7076623498.html

[Scott Winter]

You guys rock. I am going to keep re-reading this post and trying to figure out exactly the path I want to take. I set myself a $5k budget more as a placeholder, and I am not opposed to go over/under it if it makes sense. I can't help myself but to keep going back to Jim's post about buying what I need as I do my projects, and not buying things I THINK I'll need beforehand. I'm definitely going to keep a close eye on the FB marketplace and Craigslist to try and find some deals on used stuff, but I also don't mind spending more on new stuff knowing that it is new (and a warranty).

I see everyone's argument about not getting a Sawstop, and saving a ton of money by going with something just as good (but without the safety feature of the SS), but I have two teenage boys that I want to teach as I am also learning, plus I have a 3 year old and another son due in August, so I don't mind spending more on safety. If it was just me that would be using these tools I would heavily consider spending less money on an equally quality table saw, but without the built-in safety features of a SS.

[Frank Pratt]

I see everyone's argument about not getting a Sawstop, and saving a ton of money by going with something just as good (but without the safety feature of the SS), but I have two teenage boys that I want to teach as I am also learning, plus I have a 3 year old and another son due in August, so I don't mind spending more on safety. If it was just me that would be using these tools I would heavily consider spending less money on an equally quality table saw, but without the built-in safety features of a SS.

If you can afford it and want an American style table saw, there is no real argument for not getting a SawStop. Even without the blade brake it is an excellent machine. An even more important safety feature, IMO, is that it has a very good riving knife & guard that are easy & quick to change out when needed. It literally takes just a few seconds (maybe 5 - 10) and no tools.

There are good reasons for going with a Euro slider though & I would encourage you to explore those. I have a SawStop because I didn't think I could make the slider work in my particular shop situation.

[Patrick Kane]

I see everyone's argument about not getting a Sawstop, and saving a ton of money by going with something just as good (but without the safety feature of the SS), but I have two teenage boys that I want to teach as I am also learning, plus I have a 3 year old and another son due in August, so I don't mind spending more on safety. If it was just me that would be using these tools I would heavily consider spending less money on an equally quality table saw, but without the built-in safety features of a SS.

No more cogent argument than that. I was one of the guys against blowing 60% of the budget on a weak saw, but if i have kids one day i will probably buy a sawstop-esque saw for them to learn on. Hard to forgive yourself if you could have prevented maiming one of your own children.

Those 5 function combo machines can be had for very little money at times. Like that rando imported generic machine that Dave linked. I saw that too and didnt feel comfortable suggesting it. That is a machine that could really bite you in the rear. Im guessing support is next to nill. That machine is probably from the 80s of early 90s. I remember some of the crappier SCM table saws having that slider carriage with the bar. I would be so so worried about electrics in that machine. Ive seen enough felder posts about people diagnosing issues with their older 5 function machines to know i never ever want to deal with that. And that is with the weight of the FOG and felder support behind you. I cant imagine tackling that troubleshoot with a chinese wiring diagram from 1989. Now, with all that said, i bet that guy has the hardest time selling that machine, and he ultimately accepts an offer close to $1,000. In my opinion, its worth probably $1,200, because he has a few nice shaper cutterheads and saw blades with it. Might be worth the risk of having to deal with the electrics down the road.

My anti-5 function combo sentiments above are mostly tied to that generic import. If I am ever forced to work out of a one or two car garage, i would absolutely go for a Felder/Minimax 5 combo unit. They pack so much capability into such a small footprint, and they are some of the best used deals ive ever seen. I try to keep that opinion to myself for fear i ever have to buy one some day, but i have seen dozens of screaming deals across the country. Screaming deals that sit and sit and sit. For example, it sucks for you that you are searching now and not about 8 months ago. There was a CF731 S or CF741 S from around 2002 for sale very close to you. I want to say it was Hagerstown, MD. I think it was the 12" JP too and not the 16". Anyway, it was the professional 700 series slider with a 9' stroke. Guy had a power feeder with the tilt bracket, and he started around $5-6,000, dropped to $4,000, and i saw it a month or two later at $2,500. I assume it sold for around that price. $2,500 and someone walked away with a 12" jointer/planer, 4-5hp shaper, power feeder, and a 9' slider. Half your budget and would smoke the capabilities of everything we(myself included) just suggested. Would leave you with plenty of money for a great DC system and a good 18-20" bandsaw. Im interested in seeing what you put together. I love buying tools : )

[Art Mann]

I have been waiting now for about 15 years to find a good used cabinet saw within 50 miles and the only ones I have seen so far are either junk or priced like a new saw. They come up for sale at the rate of about one a year. How long do you think I should wait?


A little bit of advice that was given to me about buying used machines/tools. BE PATIENT AND WAIT FOR A DEAL ON WHAT YOU WANT. Don’t marry the first girl you kiss. ( Jim I hope I didn’t offend anybody!). 藍

[Mike Kees]

Art if you would be willing to expand your distance radius for used tools that might help with shortening the waiting period.I have driven 13 hours one way for my best deal to date. Most of my machines have come from Calgary and the surrounding area which is 3-4 hours away(one way) for me.

[Stephen White]

If your first purchase is a $3000 saw I bet you end up spending way over $5000, in time.

My advice would be to do the dust collection system and some shelves and benches and then take it one or two tools at a time, when you need it(them) and then do the same research you did for the saw and then get the best one you can with an eye for the future.

You can build furniture with $500 worth of hand tools (they did for centuries) so the buy you make will be to solve a problem with a high end solution and when that happens pull the trigger.

[Alex Zeller]

Just my opinion but it seams like insurance companies are pushing businesses to upgrade their PM66 style cabinet saws to either the sawstop style or at least a saw with a Riving knife. I'm seeing well used but very much still lots of life left in them saws sell for under $200 at auction. It's not going to look as nice as the one a hobbyist bought and treated like his child but when money is tight beauty should be what you are making not how your tooling looks. For example my PM66 cost me a little under $250 for the saw with a Bosch router in the side table, the 15% buyers fee, Mass sales tax, and the gas to drive 150 miles each way to get it. The 3hp single phase Baldor on it is worth about that much. The hardest part about finding used equipment is figuring out where to look.

[Dave Sabo]

That is a machine that could really bite you in the rear. Im guessing support is next to nill. That machine is probably from the 80s of early 90s. I remember some of the crappier SCM table saws having that slider carriage with the bar. I would be so so worried about electrics in that machine.

Well, you might be surprised. Andy Andreou has been in business since the 70's. The maker of that machine is Rojek if I'm not mistaken, and they are still around too; and selling pretty much that machine. Electrics might be dodgy on any machine. Try and find an old unisaw starter today ! The good news is these aren't computers or A/V electronics that have complex controllers and can't be worked on at home. They are typically a selector switch, an on/off switch, and one or more kill switches. Pretty basic stuff that's easily fixed even if the orig. part isn't readily available.

You might just as well worry about any tool that is electrically powered. It might fail. :rolleyes:

The
slider carriage with the bar is not as good as some other designs, but it works. And is better than say Robland's x31. If you can choose without penalty, fine. Otherwise, I wouldn't fret.

More of an issue for Scott (or anyone) is he may not have the skill, desire, or time to evaluate used machinery.

I agree that Sawstop is a tremendous insurance policy but........ there is NO SUBISTUTE for proper training and skill. I would not tell my kids about the braking feature at all and teach them how to properly use a tablesaw safely and to have a healthy respect for it and other tools. Relying on sawstop could lead to trouble down the road if they use another saw and have developed questionable habits or technique. Show em pics or video of people without digits or limbs because of machine accidents. A drill press or even a utility knife can punch one's ticket for a long nite in the ER and months of reheab if you fall asleep at the wheel.

[Art Mann]

I would not drive 13 hours, one way, if the saw were free. Travel costs money and I value my time more than that as well. Some people enjoy the hunt, even though the price isn't particularly favorable when you include expenses. I don't. I managed to get good deals on a used drum sander and a used hybrid table saw but both of those were close by.


Art if you would be willing to expand your distance radius for used tools that might help with shortening the waiting period.I have driven 13 hours one way for my best deal to date. Most of my machines have come from Calgary and the surrounding area which is 3-4 hours away(one way) for me.

[Mike Kees]

Art on that trip,I bought a next to new Felder k700s sliding saw and a Felder edge bander. Including expenses I saved about $25000 . So do you still think that was a waste of my time ?

[Jim Dwight]

I've been making sawdust for over 30 years and owned several table saws before getting a PCS a little over a year ago. I've never needed a band aid because of a table saw. But I've paid some hefty medical bills when I worked too long and used poor judgement and let a tool bite me. It is very important to use proper technique but also important to quit when you are tired and a PCS is cheap compared to medical bills.

I got rid of my bandsaw when I moved to this house in 2013 and will probably replace it this year. I've built a bunch of stuff without one. It is obviously not high on my list but it depends on what you need to do. A Bosch jig saw lets me make curved cuts. A Bosch DEVS 1250 is a good sander for about half what Festool gets. I like my domino XL but I used a plunge router to make mortises that were as nice as the domino makes, it just took a little more time.

A use a little lunchbox planner I got for $100 from a guy at church that thought it didn't work. The blades just needed sharpened. I might upgrade to a DeWalt but I also may not. My old Ryobi AP-10 does a decent job and the price was certainly right. I would get the planner before the jointer. It is not the way you are supposed to prepare stock but it works to just plane both faces and then straighten an edge with a table saw, circular saw with guide or, my favorite, a track saw.

You will struggle to find space, I believe, for a PCS with a 52 inch fence. And even with it some cuts will be out of it's range. I use a 36 inch PCS PLUS a DeWalt track saw. I have the 106, 59, and 44 inch tracks. I know I could do some things quicker with different equipment but my shop is only 14x28 so I am limited on space and my table saw/track saw combination lets me build anything I need to build. I give myself glue up ready edges with the track saw. Anybody who thinks they are inaccurate just does not know how to use it. But that same thing can be said of many tools.

With your budget, I would buy a mid sized plunge/fixed base router combo (if you don't have one), a planner, a track saw and save the rest for clamps and other things you will have to have. But the other Jim's advice of buying what you need for what you want to build is good. That's pretty much what I did until my kids were grown and I had a little more money.

We all have our pet peeves but I think spending money on router tables is a terrible waste. I have never even bought a plate. My router table has a home made lift that works great. The top is a sink cut out backed with plywood and edged with maple. The top tilts up for bit changes. You could have a router table by just poking a hole in the extension wing of the PCS and screwing a fixed base for a router to the underside. A board clamped to the PCS fence will work or you could make one. If I was doing this for a living I would do a lot differently but for a hobby shop, a router table to me is something you make, not something you buy.

[Scott Bernstein]

Unless you want to invest in a Euro-style slider, which is a whole other argument (plenty of posts on slider vs standard style saw) I think your choice of a sawstop is a good one. I started in my 2-car garage workshop with a 1.75hp sawstop. When I finally upgraded the electrical service in the garage, I purchased the 3hp motor and upgraded my saw. This was about 5 years ago and since then I have added the industrial-sized floating dust collector guard and the folding extension table. Very happy with both. +1 on dust collection. I went way overkill when I finally decided to purchased a real dust collector (as opposed to a shop vac)..ended up with the a 5hp cyclone - best thing I ever bought (after the table saw). Other than table saw and dust collector, my Hammer 16" jointer-planer combo unit is the most often used tool in the shop. I started with a 6" jointer, which I outgrew in about 2 weeks. Unless someone gives one for free, I would not purchase a 6" jointer. Hold out for at least an 8". If you can swing it, a 16" jointer-planer combo on wheels is a great way to go. Lets see...next most commonly used tool for me is the router table. You can make one yourself or purchase one - depends on the budget. Technically you can use the same router for handheld use and in the router table, but on practical purposes this is a pain to keep switching. Next is the bandsaw. Some people on here swear their bandsaw cuts as good as a table saw. Not mine. But it does the job. Then a drill press - small models, like a 14" is sufficient and can be purchased used quite cheap. So in my opinion these are the basic stationary tools - in no particular order - that I use most often...table saw, dust collector, router/router table, jointer-planer, bandsaw, drill press. Then a smattering of hand tools like measuring/marking tools, sanders, drill/driver, hammer, chisels, maybe couple of hand planes, circular saw for breaking down sheet goods. Shop vac to hook up to the small handheld tools.

All my tools are mounted on mobile bases so we can park cars in the garage while it is not in "wood shop" mode.

After you acquire all this stuff, the next thing to add would likely involve some kind of joinery. Maybe a Festool Domino joiner, Lamello joiner, pantorouter, router boss or wood rat, dovetail jig, dedicated mortiser, table saw tenoning jig, etc...

[Justin Rapp]

Used will definitely be my first avenue of choice! I live in Lancaster, PA so there is a pretty high woodworking population here.

I am a few hours from Lancaster in NJ and I have yet to see too much good used equipment at a decent savings here. Most people are trying to sell for 85-90% of new, which just isn't worth the risk for me. For example, i just saw a JET drum sander posted for $1000. Sure they are tossing in some sandpaper, but I can get it new on sale right now for $999.. go figure.

Where are you looking for equipment?

[Justin Rapp]

For now: Bandsaw (big as you can afford), jointer, and planer. You may not need a table saw at all but if you do, a contractor saw should be fine. A big table saw probably won't be necessary. I would not over-think the dust collection. Any single-bagger should get you by. Hope this helps,

Erik

I would have to both agree and disagree... yes, you can use a bandsaw to make straight cuts but you are limited in many aspects when trying to rip wider boards or some panels and table surface doesn't give you the same width for cross-cutting, and forget about ripping a bevel with easy. Table saws are a must if building furniture for home with any level of efficiency and 100% repeatable parts. I do agree that a good contractor saw can be fine. I've been using mine for 15 years and have built a lot with it, however I have somewhat outgrown in and really do want a cabinet saw at this point. If I was to go back 15 years and spend the extra money back than for years of having a cabinet saw, i'd do it in a heart beat. There is also no 2nd to safety, and a SawStop has that - it's a no brainier. I just did a quick build on SawStop's site, the contractor saw with 36" fence, cast iron wing upgrade and a mobile base is just shy of 2400. A PCS with the same fence and a mobile base is shut shy of 2900. For the $500, it's a no brainer to go for the PCS.

[Art Mann]

My wife goes to a store advertising sale prices and buys a bunch of stuff she doesn't need. She comes home and brags about how much money she saved. Whether it was a waste of your time depends on how badly you needed the equipment. It would not have been worth it to me.

Art on that trip,I bought a next to new Felder k700s sliding saw and a Felder edge bander. Including expenses I saved about $25000 . So do you still think that was a waste of my time ?

[Mike Kees]

Art I am running out of patience here. You complained that you have been waiting for 15 years looking for a cabinet saw within 50 miles of home. If you do not want to listen to someone trying to legitimately help you ,just stick with your winning formula and keep waiting. I did need that saw and I did save that much. And yes it is worth it.

[Rod Wolfy]

Kind of interesting about all of the options, fun read.

I have had a shop for as long as I've had a house. It started with little things like a cordless drill, ROS and shop vacuum. I've had lots in the years since, including Felder and Aggazzani. The ones that still get used the most are an impact driver, ROS and vacuum. I've also lost a large part of my hearing, so I can't hear my three daughters as well.

Get a quiet vacuum and put a Dust deputy or the like on it. I have gone through all sorts of tools and upgraded lots of times. Of all my power tools, I use the DC the most. Every time I turn on the jointer, planer, table saw, bandsaw. I mounted it on the ceiling with a cyclone to empty easily. I love my SS, but save your money on the upgrades and just get the 3hp with a 36” fence and mobile base to start.

Jim is right about the project based approach. I have done 2 kitchens and so a track saw and pocket hole jig were important. The other thing I use all the time is a miter saw. That was the 4th tool I ever bought and it still gets used on just about every project, to cut down the boards to length. I actually use my 7.5" SCMS Milwaukee as much as my 12" Bosch. I throw it up on saw horses in the driveway, along with the sheet goods to break down, so they fit in the garage. 5th tool was a router. Now I have 5 or 6 of them.

With a one car garage, save up and get a 12" J/P combo on wheels for your furniture. I have the HH Jet. That gets used a lot, too.

[Art Mann]

Time and time again, I read advice on this forum from people who live in areas where used equipment is available at fair prices. I am making the very real and meaningful point that used equipment is not always a practical alternative. I bought a Grizzly hybrid saw used about a year ago. It was the first practical alternative that I saw in more than 15 years of searching. It was not what I wanted but it was an upgrade from my contractor saw. It is not practical to drive 13 hours each way to buy a simple cabinet saw. I will remind you that that was the subject of the original discussion - not some industrial grade saw that cost more than every piece of equipment in my shop put together.


Art I am running out of patience here. You complained that you have been waiting for 15 years looking for a cabinet saw within 50 miles of home. If you do not want to listen to someone trying to legitimately help you ,just stick with your winning formula and keep waiting. I did need that saw and I did save that much. And yes it is worth it.

[Phillip Mitchell]

Everybody is a little bit different. How much they need the tool
varies. Level of quality desired varies. Budget varies. Available time to both search for and retrieve used equipment varies. I could go on...

I live in a small town in the mountains (~30-40k people) that is pretty dry for quality used woodworking equipment. If I only looked within a 50 mile radius for the things I’ve searched for and drug home from Craigslist or online classifieds, I wouldn’t have most of the tools I proudly own that have all been great deals.

It usually takes a certain patience, tenacity, and persistence to succeed at scoring solid deals on quality used tools. Not everyone wants to deal with it, and I get that, but to equate a professional woodworker’s successful purchase of some nice, high level tooling for a good deal even though it wasn’t local to your wife spending extraneous money on a retail therapy outing is apple to oranges.

I have found that my own budget for woodworking tools was stretched by a factor of at least 5:1 by being on a constant prowl on various websites for used machines that were both desirable/needed and if not a “great deal”, at least worthy of the asking price. None of my machines were bought new, mostly out of trying to get the most out of my Benjamin’s. Conversely, there’s a lot of used junk out there to wade through that’s not worth 1/2 of the asking price...

I’ve driven up to 10 hrs (one way) for tools that were both good deals and that I needed at the time. I don’t love doing it, but it’s usually not terrible and pretty much always worth the time once it’s done.

There’s also something to be said for having some coin set aside and watching what becomes available and jumping on good deals / desirable machines when they become available even if you don’t exactly need it at the time. This applies more to upgrades and once you have a good idea of the actual tooling you need in your shop to do the work you do, but if you’re picky about your machines, this approach can work with some patience and diligence.

[Art Mann]

I try to keep things in the context of the original poster. He is obviously a hobbyist who is buying equipment for a garage shop. I would say that the (attempt at a humorous) example of my wife buying stuff at a store sale is waaaaaay more appropriate for the OP than a description of the efforts of some professional buying manufacturing equipment for a business. If the OP lives in the right area, he may be able to get good used equipment at a fair price. However, if he lives where I do, he may very well die of old age before he collects enough good used equipment to populate a complete shop.


Not everyone wants to deal with it, and I get that, but to equate a professional woodworker’s successful purchase of some nice, high level tooling for a good deal even though it wasn’t local to your wife spending extraneous money on a retail therapy outing is apple to oranges.

[Dave Sabo]

Dunno where you reiside exaclty Art, but in Atlanta I see good to great deals come up all the time.

A lot more if I'm willing to drive to B'ham, Greenville, Asheville or Charlotte. I also see a lot of folks that still think their $500 twenty/thirty/forty year old craftsman saw is still worth 500 bucks. So it's like everything else on the secondary market.

ATL is pretty deep in the south.

[Alex Zeller]

It sounds like the OP has got his answer. Based on his needs/ wants the SS sounds like it's most likely the right saw for him. When I was a teenager I would often use my father's Craftsman radial arm saw. He got it at a discount because it was a floor model and was missing a few things, like some of the guards. I can't tell you how many close calls I had with that saw. I still have it but it's been 25 years since it's been turned on. If I had two teens that I knew were going to be learning how to use a saw I most likely would opt to spend the extra money on the SS (for peace of mind) and just wait longer before getting the other tools I wanted. Granted that radial arm saw is more dangerous than a table saw but I can assure you my father did his best to show me how to use it correctly.

[Scott Winter]

It sounds like the OP has got his answer. Based on his needs/ wants the SS sounds like it's most likely the right saw for him. When I was a teenager I would often use my father's Craftsman radial arm saw. He got it at a discount because it was a floor model and was missing a few things, like some of the guards. I can't tell you how many close calls I had with that saw. I still have it but it's been 25 years since it's been turned on. If I had two teens that I knew were going to be learning how to use a saw I most likely would opt to spend the extra money on the SS (for peace of mind) and just wait longer before getting the other tools I wanted. Granted that radial arm saw is more dangerous than a table saw but I can assure you my father did his best to show me how to use it correctly.


Yeah I have definitely made up my mind about getting a SS. Now I am really considering if the PCS is a little overkill for my needs, or if I would be better off just getting the contractor version instead. Looks like the motor is the same (1.75HP) in the PCS I was looking at. Factoring in the mobile base ($400 for the PCS vs $200 for the contractor) and shipping, and the contractor saw is almost $1k cheaper. I don't think I would need to opt for the cast iron wings, and the pressed steel ones that come with the contractor version would be "good enough".

I could use that money I'd save and put towards an 8" jointer, and a Dewalt 735 planer.

[Bill Dufour]

$200 for a mobile base. At that price I would buy some bigger wheels at HF, some angle at the iron yard and a used mig welder with flux core wire. I put my TS on 14" wheels and it moves very easy even it it weighs around 600#.
Bill D

[Rod Wolfy]

Yeah I have definitely made up my mind about getting a SS. Now I am really considering if the PCS is a little overkill for my needs, or if I would be better off just getting the contractor version instead. Looks like the motor is the same (1.75HP) in the PCS I was looking at. Factoring in the mobile base ($400 for the PCS vs $200 for the contractor) and shipping, and the contractor saw is almost $1k cheaper. I don't think I would need to opt for the cast iron wings, and the pressed steel ones that come with the contractor version would be "good enough".

I could use that money I'd save and put towards an 8" jointer, and a Dewalt 735 planer.

The folks that I have heard from wish they had gotten the cast iron wings. I've also heard several say (to which I'd agree) that the dust collection on the PCS is going to be night and day better than the contractor's version. Like I said before, if you're going to keep at this hobby, spend a little more up front, instead of buying down and then spending again.

I had a new Jet 6" jointer and it was great for the first three or four projects, but then I found that most of my real hardwoods (that didn't come s4s) were over 6". I got like $400 for it. You could probably pick up a used one for around that.

I watched Craigslist for 2 years before I was able to pick up a SS PCS, set up like I wanted. It was close to retail in price, as many of them were. I got a Felder one time, after watching CL for 6 months and driving about 1,500 miles to inspect it, put it on a pallet and then ship it home. Keep an eye out and check cities that are a reasonable drive, based on the cost of the item and the cost of your time & effort to get them.

I got a 21" Grizzly bandsaw a couple weeks ago after seeing lots of overpriced MM, Laguna and other nice bandsaws. But they all wanted too much and I didn't want to deal with the shipping hassles. I paid an extra $234 and it was put in my garage, even though I could have driven to Bellingham in about 45 minutes and picked it up.

[Alex Zeller]

Yeah I have definitely made up my mind about getting a SS. Now I am really considering if the PCS is a little overkill for my needs, or if I would be better off just getting the contractor version instead. Looks like the motor is the same (1.75HP) in the PCS I was looking at. Factoring in the mobile base ($400 for the PCS vs $200 for the contractor) and shipping, and the contractor saw is almost $1k cheaper. I don't think I would need to opt for the cast iron wings, and the pressed steel ones that come with the contractor version would be "good enough".

I could use that money I'd save and put towards an 8" jointer, and a Dewalt 735 planer.

I haven't looked at any reviews but Grizzly does have an 8" jointer for around $1300 on sale (plus shipping and sales tax). With a 735 you would be looking at a little over $2k. I personally am in the camp of don't try to cheap out thinking that you can live with something that might do the job. I often find that I quickly find the limitations and want to upgrade much sooner than I expect. It's really hard to balance that with not wanting to over spend.

A coworker has a Jet contractors saw and has been able to do pretty much everything he's wanted. It's accuracy is more than good enough for what he does. On occasion he comes over to use my 20" planer and when he has used my PM66 he notes that it just feels different. To him the extra weight and power (mine has a 3hp Baldor) gives him a feeling that the saw is more substantial. Is this a saw for "life" (do you plan on keeping it for a very long time)? If so a few hundred savings may not be worth it. But if you're plans are not to do a lot of true woodworking then it would be money not well spent going with the PCS.

Right now SS is offering either a free mobile base or over arm dust collector if you buy the PCS. So the difference in price is much less.

[Marc Fenneuff]

Yeah I have definitely made up my mind about getting a SS. Now I am really considering if the PCS is a little overkill for my needs, or if I would be better off just getting the contractor version instead. Looks like the motor is the same (1.75HP) in the PCS I was looking at. Factoring in the mobile base ($400 for the PCS vs $200 for the contractor) and shipping, and the contractor saw is almost $1k cheaper.

I was sure I wanted the 52" SS for my garage shop, since I currently have my contractor saw on a mobile base that I made, the whole things is about 5'6" long, router table at one end. All that space to the right of the blade usually ends up as a shelf, though I could rip up to 50" or so. I've decided I'll be fine with the 36" PCS. I will do the 3HP model. And I will make an outfeed/assembly table for it. I prefer to cut down sheet goods on the floor with a straightedge anyway.

Get the cast iron wings.

[Stan Calow]

I understand the attraction of getting a big cabinet saw, especially if its an investment in a business. But its different for hobbyists. I've been busier than normal the last few weeks, but still my saw hasn't actually been on and running more than 10 minutes this year. I have the SS contractor, and it does everything I need and well. Definitely get the mobile base and consider upgrading the fence. The basic fence doesn't have any tracks to which you can easily attach jigs or safety devices.

[Mike Kees]

This whole woodworking thing is so dang complicated to get started.I understand when guys say to buy what you want the first time but seriously I do not know anyone who did it.I think it is important to be able to start making stuff and grow into this hobby. This means you need a certain 'critical mass' of tools to begin,most of which may be upgraded later if needed. On this note I think we give to much advice based on where we ended up instead of what is the base level of quality to start at. My suggestion for the base starting point as far as machines go would be a contractor saw with a decent fence,any 6'' jointer with flat tables,and a portable planer. I would then buy basic hand tools like a four chisel set like the Narex or old blue handle marples . A good block plane and a #3 or 4 handplane.Buy a starret combination square right away . A RO sander would be nice as well. Some basic clamps like 4 pipe clamps and 6 12 f style clamps. A router along the lines of a Bosch 1617 or porter cable 690. At this point there is enough "mass'' to do a lot. From here it would be add machines and tool as needed. I would look to buy the three machines used for two solid reasons: one it far easier to sell and recoup most or all of what you paid if/when you upgrade. 2. These machines are relatively easy to find used simply because everyone starts with them,there are more of them out there. Good luck.

[ChrisA Edwards]

Scott, I feel your pain, but look at the SS as a 10-15 year tool investment. Don't short change yourself in the short term. If this eats a little more of your current budget, right now, then something else will just have to wait a little longer.

Also, you can see from many responses, in this thread, used SS PCS hold a very high second hand value, so if you find, a couple of years from now, that this wasn't for you, you'll probably be able to recoup a lot of your initial investment and there will be a market for your saw, I don't think this holds quite so true for the Contractor model.

Just my thoughts.

[Arnold Maguire]

Hi: I live nearby (West Chester, PA) so thought I would comment. I look at Craigslist a lot and its mostly overpriced, so I would definitely start out low with offers. Used equipment should be 50-70% cheaper than new.
One of my best purchases has been the Dewalt 611 router. There are also a lot of “pop up” tables you can make or buy that will provide a router table function when needed.
Eagle America is a great local source for router bits and assorted products. They are a local company with good products and quick delivery.
As someone mentioned, look at the planer/jointer combos. Getting a straight, flat piece of wood to start with will be your biggest challenge!
Another option is to pay extra to have the lumber mill surface the rough lumber for you, at least in the beginning.
I would love to have a Saw Stop, but not sure I would spend 50% of my budget on it.
If you want to come look at my 2 car garage shop sometime and get some ideas, feel free to come by (with a mask on, of course 😉.)

[Arnold Maguire]

If you are buying rough lumber, go right to the 8” jointer.

[PHILIP MACHIN]

I don't have as much experience as most of these guys, but I just started my woodshop over the last year or so. Everyone's financial situation is different, but I tend to have a decent amount left over every month after paying my bills and investing in my retirement.

Like everyone said, it depends a lot on what you want to do. I do mostly home improvement work, shelves and crates and boxes for my wife and I've been dabbling in furniture building because it interest me. My used market is crap in my area, so after a few months of waiting or being outbid I decided just to do some research and buy some new items.

I installed a sub panel in my garage myself (The builder originally only had the 1 15A circuit required by code for your garage) and ran 90A of 220 to it and a few outlets around the garage. Knock out your power requirements up front when it won't be such a pain.

Dust collection was an important area for me. I have asthma and my lungs get irritated quite easily by the dust, so I ended up putting a little more money into this. I built the Clearvue 1800 kit. Honestly, it was fun to build and set up. I think I did a pretty good job and was able to run the pipes around to the equipment in a neat fashion. I also got one of the ceiling filter jobs, and between the two I don't have any sitting dust unless I'm doing something that requires me to remove the blade guard suction hose from the table saw. My Dylos meter hangs out around 500 PM2.5.

I went with the Sawstop PCS 3hp table saw. This was half need, half want. I've always wanted a cabinet saw, and my dad always wanted one as well and was never able to afford it. I half got it for me, and half got it for him to come over and use as well. I feel like it's a long term investment and I have no regrets. The thing was easy to put together, and came dialed in straight from the factory. It was a lot of money, but zero regrets from me on this one.

I don't make any huge projects, but I wanted to use rough lumber because it's cheaper and locally sourced. I bought the Wahuda 8 inch bench Jointer and their 13 inch bench Planer. I mounted them both to a mobile cart I built that has a flipping top. So they are permanently mounted and only use the footprint of one tool. I've been very happy with both so far. I haven't had to joint/plane anything longer than 5 feet yet though, but my Dad gifted me various hand planes I can use to assist if there is ever a need. (No. 4, 60 1/2, 62 and 7 Planes)

I ended up spending quite a bit on clamps, I found a set of 6 Bessey clamps used on craigs list for 100$. 2 60's , 2 40's and 2 24's. I feel like I stole them after looking up their prices new online. I bought a bunch of Irwin clamps that were on sale on black Friday, and to be honest most of the rest of them are from Harbor Freight.

On black Friday I ended up buying a Dewalt packaged deal at Lowes that had the orbital sander, compact router, miter saw, circular saw, and reciprocating saw and a few other odds and ends for dirt cheap. So that helped round things out a little too.

My next purchase will probably be a router table, I bought the router I want and haven't had the inclination to order anything else now that the CoronaVirus has struck.

I've felt inclined to get a Bandsaw as well, but I haven't had the need yet. I haven't had to do any resawing and most of the curved work I've done can be accomplished with a jig saw.

So long winded response to say you shouldn't pass up obvious good used deals, but at the end of the day you'll probably be happiest if you just buy what you want. You don't have to have everything Day 1.

Hope that helps,

Phil

[Pete Staehling]

This whole woodworking thing is so dang complicated to get started.I understand when guys say to buy what you want the first time but seriously I do not know anyone who did it.I think it is important to be able to start making stuff and grow into this hobby. This means you need a certain 'critical mass' of tools to begin,most of which may be upgraded later if needed. On this note I think we give to much advice based on where we ended up instead of what is the base level of quality to start at. My suggestion for the base starting point as far as machines go would be a contractor saw with a decent fence,any 6'' jointer with flat tables,and a portable planer. I would then buy basic hand tools like a four chisel set like the Narex or old blue handle marples . A good block plane and a #3 or 4 handplane.Buy a starret combination square right away . A RO sander would be nice as well. Some basic clamps like 4 pipe clamps and 6 12 f style clamps. A router along the lines of a Bosch 1617 or porter cable 690. At this point there is enough "mass'' to do a lot. From here it would be add machines and tool as needed. I would look to buy the three machines used for two solid reasons: one it far easier to sell and recoup most or all of what you paid if/when you upgrade. 2. These machines are relatively easy to find used simply because everyone starts with them,there are more of them out there. Good luck.

On another related note... I don't know about everyone else, but I don't generally know where an interest will take me when I start into it. Maybe most folks do. I might start out down a path and wind up settling on some weird vaguely related and highly specialized offshoot of it. It has happened with a variety of interests over the decades. As a result an approach something like Mike is suggesting here works well for me. It helps avoid going whole hog on a lot of stuff that winds up being the wrong thing for where my evolving interests take me.