Bandsaw Table Miter Slot Useless?

[Paul Ruud]

Very few bandsaw setup guides mention squaring the table miter slot to the path of the blade. I think it might be helpful to discuss whether the miter slot on a bandsaw table is useful. I add on my own adjustable table with a miter slot when I need one. For example, I have been experimenting with cutting dovetail joints on the bandsaw and a miter slot works better than running a jig along the fence.

Perhaps I should state upfront my view on bandsaw drift. It is a pretty common one now: one should adjust the fence (if you are using one) to the path of a straight cut. Snodgrass misses the boat on this one, I think. For example, his Wood Whisperer tutorial on setup offers a Carter tool that makes the fence parallel to the side of the blade. That's alright for some applications but one can do much better and you may need to for some resawing. A better approach, I think, came with the blades I got from Highland. Freehand a straight cut parallel to the side of a jointed piece of wood, stop part way and clamp the wood to your table, then set your fence to the wood. Finer adjustments can be made by inspecting the bow in a resawn surface.

Bandsaws have tables that you can level. So I take that as a given. But it is difficult to square the miter slot to whatever the straight path of your blade is. You don't have a reference like on the table saw, where you can use the (much larger and stiffer) blade. So it seems to me that the miter slot is pretty much useless and it is helpful to know this. As I said, I think it is better to make a table with a miter slot to put on top and use the squared fence to square the added table.

What's your view?

[John TenEyck]

To me a bandsaw is no different in setup than a tablesaw. The miter slot is there for good reason, but it only works if the blade cuts straight and parallel with it. The manual with my Grizzly G0636X has clear directions on how to adjust the table so the miter slot is parallel with the blade. Once that is done, the world is your oyster, because you can then set the fence parallel with the miter slot. This is exactly the same sequence you would use in setting up a tablesaw.

Once adjusted like described above the miter gage becomes nearly as useful on the bandsaw as it is on a tablesaw.

John

[Edwin Santos]

Full agreement with John T's comments above. I follow the method promoted by Michael Fortune for eliminating drift by adjusting the table. Look for his Fine Woodworking video online.
Simply put, set the fence absolutely even/parallel with the miter slot. Then adjust the table so the blade is cutting in the center of the kerf using the (now adjusted) fence.
There is a reason the bolt holes for attaching the table to the trunnions are oversized.

I use sliding jigs in my miter slot all the time including a crosscutting sled that delivers perfect 90 degree cuts every time.

[glenn bradley]

Good topic, well presented. Let's have some fun with it. I will state up front that bandsaw blade drift does not exist in my shop. I don't know why. It must be like Murphy; evil visited upon some while others escape. I'm sure Murphy visits some other form of abuse on me to make up for it; every day it seems. :)

This can be one of those discussions that goes on forever so let's keep it light and friendly. Those of us who read various forums realize that some people do not see a need for a miter slot on a router table; likewise the bandsaw. This doesn't mean the slot is of no value, it just means it is of no value to those people. Not taking advantage of the miter slot is not right or wrong. It just means that some folks perform some operations differently or using different tools.

My coping sled uses the miter slot on the router table, other designs ride the fence. My circle jig uses the miter slot on the bandsaw, others attach differently. I use the miter slot and gauge to guide tall or wide cuts, especially when they are done in multiples. Miter slot guided cuts are very consistent for me.

My table/slot is aligned to the blade path. The blade path remains consistent through changes of blade size and tooth count. This consistency makes me more prone to change blades for different tasks which makes my saw more versatile and keeps it doing the best job it can for the task at hand.

When changing blades I only change guide settings and tension. The fence has been setup the same since the alignment effort I went through years ago to set the wheels co-planer. During that effort I also tweaked my dust collection, ground one pin on each door hinge to make removal and (especially) re-installation easier [my bandsaw spine is to the wall so removing the doors makes blade swaps faster].

So, we can see that different people have different experiences with their saws. I would offer that we also approach operations differently and that this will add to our value or dismissal of the miter slot on a bandsaw. I have jigs that use the slot for path guidance or as an anchor point. I could achieve these things without the miter slot but, it's there and it's handy for the task. Another person may approach the tasks differently, although just as well, through a method that doesn't even consider the miter slot. Both right, just different.

I have taken advantage of the existence of the miter slot on all of my bandsaws for so many years that I would certainly pause in my decision making if I were looking at one without a slot. Certainly the opposite would be true for the person who does not use the slot; they wouldn't care. Let's hear from some other folks!

Another fun topic is which side of the blade you should have the 'keeper' on when cutting veneer. There is a guy online who has gone to great lengths to explain to me why I'm doing it wrong and it can't possible work. I decided to just go ahead and keep doing it wrong. I cut 1/16" veneer against the fence all the time. Apparently this doesn't work in his world. That's OK, it's his insisting that everyone do it his way that is amusing. :)

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[lowell holmes]

I have been known to miter ends of 1 1/2" thick wood on my band saw. The miter gauge is good for that.

[Robert Hazelwood]

The miter slot is very useful. You need to figure out why the blade doesn't cut straight. I set the blade centered on the top wheel, and then adjust the miter slot so it is parallel to the blade. Then set fence parallel to slot.

If you do this and the cut path wants to go one way or the other then I'd suspect an uneven set to the teeth or duller teeth on one side.

[Lee Schierer]

I use the miter slot on my bandsaw relatively often.

I have a circle cutting jig that uses the miter slot to position the jig properly on the table. Blade drift is controlled by adjusting the center point of the circle in relation to the front edge of the teeth on the blade.

I used a miter gauge yesterday to cut off a short piece from a 1-1/2 inch dowel The cut was square because the blade was tracking correctly.

[Rod Sheridan]

When I teach band saw seminars I always teach that the mitre slot, like the fence must be parallel to the blade.

Blade drift is caused by a worn or poorly sharpened blade or a machine that is a band saw shaped object, rather than a band saw.

If you think about adjusting your band saw fence for “drift”, imagine how unlikely you would be willing to do that on your table saw when you changed blades.

Can you imagine having to move the carriage tracks to align with blade drift when you changed the blade in a saw mill?

The mitre gauge slot is extremely important on a band saw for jigs such as those mentioned by Glenn B and others.

I teach using the band saw for making dovetails and bridle joints and tenons, all are accurate enough for cabinet making, using the band saw.

Making lumber on a log sawing carriage is also a good use for a mitre gauge slot.

Regards, Rod

[Alex Zeller]

My sister saw some homemade candle stands at a restaurant. They were just short sections of a birch branch with a mortise on the top for a candle. I have a sled that holds the "log" from turning so I can make both cuts parallel and so when it stands up it's vertical. I can make these things in minutes but they are usually 4" to 6" in diameter up to about 10" tall. I have lots of branches around the house so they are basically free. She gets' like $20 each at craft sales for them. To me the miter slot is not worthless. It might be to you until that project you never thought of comes along and changes your mind.

[Paul Ruud]

Thanks, everyone, for your comments. I learned something and I really appreciate the feedback.

Some of you thought I said that miter slots for bandsaws are useless. That's not what I meant to say. I was questioning the miter slot on the table of the saw itself. I think a miter slot for a bandsaw is very useful. That's why I have made a table to go on top of the table. It provides a miter slot that I can easily true. It's so much easier than truing the saw's table that I may stick with that approach. Then again, if I only have to true the table once I don't need that ease.

Hearing that some are actually getting their tables square was really helpful. I had seen some videos by Fortune on the Fine Woodworking site but, following up on Edwin Santos' recommendation, I found another where he squares the table. And Fortune claims he only has to do this once. It works for years for all blades. Waddya know? For anyone else interested, look under the title "Bandsaw Tips: How to eliminate drift from your cuts."

John TenEyck, is the Grizzly procedure really "no different in setup than a tablesaw?" The first step of my table saw setup is to get the miter slot and the blade parallel. As I said in my original post, the blade of a bandsaw seems too narrow. What Fortune does is get the fence parallel to the miter slot and then he makes test cuts until he gets the fence square with the path of the blade. I suppose you could also use the miter slot for the test cuts, since the fence and miter slot are already aligned.

Rich Sheridan, it never occurred to me that a new setup was required after a table saw blade change. That blade is stiff and held securely in the same position every time. Even under tension, a bandsaw blade can bow during a resaw. And a 1/4" inch blade just seems way different from a 3/4" blade. So I just have never thought of the bandsaw blade as reliably the same orientation after a blade change. I guess I need to trust that more. Fortune centers his whole blade on the wheel (also what my Rikon manual says) and I have been following Snodgrass's advice of centering the gullet. Maybe that's misguided?

Glenn Bradley, thanks to you also for explaining that your experience is that your "blade path remains consistent through changes of blade size and tooth count." I have not expected that and I guess I should.

Again, thanks all. I really appreciate your feedback.

[John TenEyck]

Thanks, everyone, for your comments. I learned something and I really appreciate the feedback.

Some of you thought I said that miter slots for bandsaws are useless. That's not what I meant to say. I was questioning the miter slot on the table of the saw itself. I think a miter slot for a bandsaw if very useful. That's why I have made a table to go on top of the table. It provides a miter slot that I can easily true. It's so much easier than truing the saw's table that I may stick with that approach. Then again, if I only have to true the table once I don't need that ease.

Hearing that some are actually getting their tables square was really helpful. I had seen some videos by Fortune on the Fine Woodworking site but, following up on Edwin Santos' recommendation, I found another where he squares the table. And Fortune claims he only has to do this once. It works for years for all blades. Waddya know? For anyone else interested, look under the title "Bandsaw Tips: How to eliminate drift from your cuts."

John TenEyck, is the Grizzly procedure really "no different in setup than a tablesaw?" The first step of my table saw setup is to get the miter slot and the blade parallel. As I said in my original post, the blade of a bandsaw seems too narrow. What Fortune does is get the fence parallel to the miter slot and then he makes test cuts until he gets the fence square with the path of the blade. I suppose you could also use the miter slot for the test cuts, since the fence and miter slot are already aligned.

Rich Sheridan, it never occurred to me that a new setup was required after a table saw blade change. That blade is stiff and held securely in the same position every time. Even under tension, a bandsaw blade can bow during a resaw. And a 1/4" inch blade just seems way different from a 3/4" blade. So I just have never thought of the bandsaw blade as reliably the same orientation after a blade change. I guess I need to trust that more. Fortune centers his whole blade on the wheel (also what my Rikon manual says) and I have been following Snodgrass's advice of centering the gullet. Maybe that's misguided?

Glenn Bradley, thanks to you also for explaining that your experience is that your "blade path remains consistent through changes of blade size and tooth count." I have not expected that and I guess I should.

Again, thanks all. I really appreciate your feedback.

With a 3/4" or wider blade it's pretty easy to align the miter slot parallel with the blade. I stick a 12" straight edge to the blade with a magnet. Then it's easy to measure from the straight edge to the miter slot and adjust the table until the value is the same at both ends of the straight edge.

If you are getting bowed cuts you either don't have enough tension on the blade, the blade is dull, or you are feeding stock faster than the teeth can handle. A sharp blade with 20K+ psi should give you straight resaw cuts w/o bow. Of course you have to use the right blade for the job, too. I've sliced 10" wide veneer with a 1/4" blade, but it's a lot easier and faster with one that's 1" wide.

John

[Rick Potter]

As Rod said, a 'bandsaw like' tool will never cut right. I was once given a 10" Sears 'bandsaw', which had plastic wheels. I fooled with it a few times and could never get it to cut a straight line, eventually giving it to another guy.

I also was told years ago, that cheap bandsaw blades that are stamped rather than ground will always have a 'set' to one side, and never cut straight, requiring you to adjust the fence to the 'set'.

I have a Delta 14" that has always had the fence adjusted to the slot, and never had any trouble with blade wandering, unless I used a too small blade trying to resaw. I have a cut off sled and a circle jig I made, and have no problem with them at all.

40 years ago I had a used 12" Craftsman bandsaw, which was probably 20 years old at that time. Everything on that saw was worn out, and it would never cut a straight line. Of course, I was using stamped blades from Sears at that time too. The backup flat steel 'bearing' was missing when I got it, and I had to use an intake valve from a Briggs and Straten lawn mower engine for a replacement. Hey, it was all I could afford. How's that for fun, Glenn?;)

I think a lot of old info comes from cheap saws/cheap blades, and how to allow for them.

[Ole Anderson]

Never been able to trust my BS to rip parallel to the fence. Newer Craftsman 14" Professional, a lot like a Rikon. But then I never knew my table could be adjusted to be parallel to the blade. Always assumed that drift varied depending on which blade I used. Now I have three things to try when I get back to my shop next month. Properly centering the blade on the tire, rotating the table rather than adjusting the fence, and maybe grinding the backside of the blade.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNdrkmx6ehI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DzbJYIPPNE

One video centers the edges of the blade on the wheel, the other centers the gullet on the wheel. Now I am confused.

[John TenEyck]

If the wheels are crowned center the blade on the upper wheel and adjust the table so the miter slot is parallel with the blade. Then you can change to any width blade and it will still cut parallel with the miter slot.

At the risk of bringing up another can of worms, if you have tried everything discussed here, sharp blade, enought tension, miter slot parallel with the blade, and it still won't cut straight then it's time to look at whether or not the wheels on your saw are coplaner. Despite what Mr. Snodgrass says, it can make all the difference. My 14" Delta would not cut straight until I got the wheels coplaner; now I can change blades and it always cuts straight. The owner's manual on my Grizzly G0636X discusses how "critical" it is for the wheels to be coplaner and describes how to adjust them so if for whatever reason they are not. So when all else fails, check the wheels.

John

[Pete Staehling]

On my band saw I have always found that if the saw showed drift it either wasn't set up correctly or it needed a new blade. So I never found a need to set it to cut based on the method described in the first post unless trying to get by with a dull blade or poorly adjusted saw. I see no need to try to use the saw when poorly adjusted, but might on occasion not have a new blade on hand and need to nurse a dull one a long for a few cuts. Typically I keep several spares on hand though.

I have never tried to set mine up co planar, but have wondered if it would be a good idea. Ultimately I figured that the saw was working well and decided that good enough was good enough.

[glenn bradley]

Visual aid to John's point about centering the blade on crowned tires.

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[Zachary Hoyt]

I use the slot on my bandsaw for 2 things, to cut trapezoidal blocks for segmented turnings (banjo rims in my case, so I have cut thousands of blocks) and making kerfed lining for building guitars and mandolins. In both cases I am moving the miter gauge back and forth a short distance, never all the way through. I will not tolerate a saw that drifts, and will work on it till it gets better. This comes from my sawmill experience, where there is no way to adjust for drift so you have to control the feed speed, use a sharp blade and then keep adjusting things till the blade cuts straight. On my little 10" saw there is a miter slot but I have never used it and I sold the fence that came with it. I sometimes cut straight lines on that saw, but only freehand. Anything that can be cut with the fence I can do better on the bigger 18" saw.

[Paul Ruud]

This is more helpful stuff. Thank you.

So, for me, what has been missing from a lot of bandsaw setup guides is how blade tracking affects the path the blade wants to go. I heard Snodgrass saying center on the bottom of the gullet and you are done. Now I understand that this is not right. On a crowned wheel there is generally going to be a need to tune in the angle of the blade. Even when you try your best to center the blade on the crown, you may be off enough to change the angle of the blade relative to the position of your table.

If I understand this right, people who set-and-forget the position of their saw's table are making adjustments to where the blade is tracking to get the straight path of the blade to line up with their fence. Michael Fortune does mention this in one of his many videos on FWW. And there is a video on youtube called "The Great Myth of Bandsaw Drift" that makes this point.

So thanks John and Glenn for making this super clear. Now it seems like Mr. Snodgrass' setup misled me. His pointers about the blade guides seem solid, but the business about the bottom of the gullets on the center of the crown had me working on the wrong problem.

Again, thanks.