In this situation...should I just get a Veritas jack plane?

[Sam Shankar]

After reading/listening to a lot of Chris Schwarz stuff, I got interested in buying a vintage pre-war Stanley jack plane. And that has proven to be a harder search and a bigger PITA than I expected, (See the thread immediately below) AND I kind of need a jack plane right now to flatten my new workbench. (I glued it up a little wrong, and it has a 1/32" hill down the middle.)

Long story short, I was *given* a nearly-new Veritas jointer plane a while ago...along with a brand new toothed and high-angle blade for it(!) A retiring woodworker took interest in me, what can I say. In this situation, I'm thinking of just buying a veritas low-angle jack plane and being done with it. Yeah, it'll cost me $250 as opposed to...say...$75, but because the Veritas blades are compatible, I'll have a nice setup. And I'll just be able to get flattening. Is there something I'm missing (besides the expense vs. 'cool factor' of having a hundred-year-old tool)?

[Charles Guest]

After reading/listening to a lot of Chris Schwarz stuff, I got interested in buying a vintage pre-war Stanley jack plane. And that has proven to be a harder search and a bigger PITA than I expected, (See the thread immediately below) AND I kind of need a jack plane right now to flatten my new workbench. (I glued it up a little wrong, and it has a 1/32" hill down the middle.)

Long story short, I was *given* a nearly-new Veritas jointer plane a while ago...along with a brand new toothed and high-angle blade for it(!) A retiring woodworker took interest in me, what can I say. In this situation, I'm thinking of just buying a veritas low-angle jack plane and being done with it. Yeah, it'll cost me $250 as opposed to...say...$75, but because the Veritas blades are compatible, I'll have a nice setup. And I'll just be able to get flattening. Is there something I'm missing (besides the expense vs. 'cool factor' of having a hundred-year-old tool)?

You don't need a pre-war jack plane. One from any era will do. A Stanley Handyman would do fine and you wouldn't be scared to use it. That said, I'd just the jointer plane you already have. Put some camber on the iron and get busy.

[steven c newman]

It's your money...plenty of people on here will try to spend it all for you....

[Winston Chang]

I have a Veritas bevel-up jack and like it a lot for some purposes. I wouldn't want to use it for flattening a workbench. For heavy-duty work like that, you really want to have a cambered blade, and a cambered blade bevel-up plane is requires a lot more camber than for a bevel-down plane to get the same effect. With the thick blades that come with the Veritas planes, that can take a lot more effort.

Derek Cohen has written about this topic: https://www.inthewoodshop.com/WoodworkTechniques/TheSecretToCamberinBUPlaneBlades.html

A cambered blade can remove material much, much more quickly than a flat one. If you've never used one before, you will be shocked when you see how much faster it works. Chris Schwarz also talks quite a bit about the importance of a cambered blade.

If you want a jack plane to do normal jack plane tasks, it really should be a bevel-down plane for this reason.

As I said earlier, I like my Veritas bevel-up jack, but I mostly use it as a short jointer. I could live without it, though. On the other hand, I would not want to give up the two Stanley #5 jack planes that I have -- one has a heavily cambered blade, and one has a less-cambered blade, and they are great for doing things that a jack plane is supposed to do.

[Sam Shankar]

That said, I'd just the jointer plane you already have. Put some camber on the iron and get busy.

Can't (easily) put a cambered blade on the jointer plane...it's a bevel-up plane.

[Eric Danstrom]

...I'm thinking of just buying a veritas low-angle jack plane and being done with it...

The prices are going through the roof for vintage planes right now. A vintage low angle Stanley 62 is going to cost more than a Veritas/Lie Nielson low angle jack (and a Chinese Wood River cost the same as the Veritas/LN these days). I have a Lie Nielson low angle jack and a Veritas jointer in addition to some well-working post WWII Baileys. My boutique planes worked right out of the box, I expect you'll have the same experience. If you can sharpen then you're all set. Also for fettling vintage planes it helps to see the boutiques in action to experience well-working planes.

[Frank Pratt]

Can't put a cambered blade on the jointer plane...it's a bevel-up plane.

I don't understand why a cambered iron can't go on a BU plane.

[steven c newman]

Try it, and find out.....let us know how it turned out...:rolleyes:

[Matthew Hills]

The toothed blades are pretty good for rough flattening, too -- I used the LV LAJ and toothed blade to flatten a workbench of reclaimed doug fir. This worked better than a cambered blade due to the tendency of the petrified doug fir to tear out badly.

I would prefer a cambered blade to take down a very high spot if the grain is not too bad. You can use almost any plane for this -- a #4 or #5 of almost any vintage, with heavily cambered blade should work pretty well.

Have you tried using your jointer with toothed blade for this ridge yet? Go diagonally across the grain and keep checking with a reference edge (straightedge or edge of plane) until things looking flat, and then you can switch to a non-toothed blade for removing the roughness of the toothed blade.

Matt

[Jim Matthews]

Low angled jack and a "quiver" of blades can handle many tasks. I would want a "test drive" before committing to this approach, first.

https://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-daily/handplane-need/

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I don't understand why a cambered iron can't go on a BU plane.

Well, you can, kind-of. This is what I think of when I see a cambered iron

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This is a view of what is the "cutting" side of the blade. In a BU plane, it is the other side that is doing the cutting. I have never tried it and do not know anyone who has, so, I do not know how that affects the cutting. I don't know if you would still call it cambered, or just that you now have a curved edge.

[Mark Hennebury]

You could do it just fine with a $50 # 4 smoother, if you tune it up. Plain across the grain first, then 45 degrees one way then 45 across the other way then finish up long grain. Keep your change.

[Charles Guest]

Can't put a cambered blade on the jointer plane...it's a bevel-up plane.

Sure you can, though you have to remove more metal than you would on a bevel down iron.

[Prashun Patel]

IMHO, I'd just get the Bevel up Jack from Veritas. Given that you have a high angle blade and a toothed blade for it, you'll immediately have a more versatile low angle jack than most people with a single blade do.

It's a great plane. I've come to love it and appreciate what's good and not so preferable about it:

Good: It makes a good shooting board plane, it has very nice heft so it can be used aggressively if you wish. Dropping in and resetting the blade with the low angles is a little easier than a double iron. It can be used on end grain
Not so good: for me, there's no beating a well set bevel down for tear out. However, you can always get a #4 for that purpose. It's heavy, so if you are planning to use it as a scrub thicknesser, I'd reconsider.

I don't think one needs a cambered blade to flatten a bench. I used my LA jack to do it just fine. It's a question of how much material you need to remove, I guess.

At one point I had a #5 hacked together franken plane. I gave it to a friend. It was so good and light but I wanted to treat myself to somethign with a handle that didn't come loose all the time. I was wooed into getting a Veritas LA jack way before that, and it sat largely unused until I sold the #5. I started using the LA jack out of necessity and really haven't looked back. It's all about knowing your tool, I think. I can make it do what I need it to do, and know its limitations.

I think either a #5 or the LA jack can be made to serve you just fine. If you're having an easy go of getting the LA jack, I'd prob do that. If you don't like it, I am sure you'll always be able to sell it for close to new price. Just take care of 'er.

[Rob Luter]

There were a bazillion Stanley #5 made and you should be able to find one for cheap. I've had a number of them and I wish I still had one. A Jack Plane need not be fancy. It's a purpose built plane used after the scrub and before the smoother. The Stanley bevel down cutter is much easier to camber than a bevel up iron too.

All that said, I had a Veritas BU Jack. It was really nice and a total performer. I never used it as a Jack though. It was like a cross between a jointer and a smoother, and good for shooting end grain with the 25* blade. I sold it, as I already have a good jointer and a good smoother.

[James Pallas]

I have and use an LV bu jack, jointer and smoother. I use them almost exclusively. I have cambered an iron and mostly use it in the jack but I can use it in the smoother if I want a shorter plane or in the jointer if I choose to. The cambered iron looks a bit strange when compared to a BD plane. It works fine however. I can’t remember the exact angle I put on it. It was a 25* iron and I think I went to about 30*. It’s a PMV 11 iron as a jack it isn’t sharpened often. I do have 2 Bailey #5’s I could use but prefer the LV. It’s not for everyone. I prefer the center of effort, as described well by Derek Cohen, because of severe back problems I have to deal with. If you have a good grinder it’s no big deal to camber an iron.

[Charles Guest]

After reading/listening to a lot of Chris Schwarz stuff, I got interested in buying a vintage pre-war Stanley jack plane. And that has proven to be a harder search and a bigger PITA than I expected, (See the thread immediately below) AND I kind of need a jack plane right now to flatten my new workbench. (I glued it up a little wrong, and it has a 1/32" hill down the middle.)

Long story short, I was *given* a nearly-new Veritas jointer plane a while ago...along with a brand new toothed and high-angle blade for it(!) A retiring woodworker took interest in me, what can I say. In this situation, I'm thinking of just buying a veritas low-angle jack plane and being done with it. Yeah, it'll cost me $250 as opposed to...say...$75, but because the Veritas blades are compatible, I'll have a nice setup. And I'll just be able to get flattening. Is there something I'm missing (besides the expense vs. 'cool factor' of having a hundred-year-old tool)?

Pre-war Sweetheart No. 5 available for sale. I have no interest in Jim Bode tools other than very rarely as a customer.

https://www.jimbodetools.com/products/stanley-no-5c-jack-plane-type-13-circa-1925-28-sweetheart-90707

[Frank Pratt]

Try it, and find out.....let us know how it turned out...:rolleyes:

If you can answer my question, that'd be great. If you don't know the answer, well your reply is not very helpful at all.

[J. Greg Jones]

A Veritas LAJ is nice to have (I have one) as is a vintage #5 (have 1-2 of those also). However, neither would be my first choice for flattening a workbench. I just flattened mine again this winter, and my jointer plane is the go-to for this task (as others have mentioned). Put the toothed blade in the jointer to rough out the 1/32” hump in the middle of your bench, and put in the standard blade and finish the job. It’s better suited than a #4 or #5 to flatten a bench, plus you already own the jointer.

And yes, one can camber a BU blade just fine, it just takes a little more work.

[steven c newman]

There IS a WR No. 62 in my shop.....mainly used as a JACK plane/small jointer....not much account as a smoother. I have #3s and #4s for that sort of work.

[Graham Haydon]

No need to worry about it being a certain type of Stanley. Type 19s are great and post war. There are other brands like Record etc. Just pick one that's in good shape.

A bevel up jack is a fine tool but is less useful than a bevel down with a cap iron.

[Christopher Charles]

I agree with this " However, neither would be my first choice for flattening a workbench. I just flattened mine again this winter, and my jointer plane is the go-to for this task (as others have mentioned). Put the toothed blade in the jointer to rough out the 1/32” hump in the middle of your bench, and put in the standard blade and finish the job. It’s better suited than a #4 or #5 to flatten a bench, plus you already own the jointer"

A regular #5 is better as a jack and cheaper. Which is good because the LA Jack is good as a shooter, but what you'll really want is the LV Shooting plane....

Best of luck

[Jim Koepke]

After reading/listening to a lot of Chris Schwarz stuff, I got interested in buying a vintage pre-war Stanley jack plane. And that has proven to be a harder search and a bigger PITA than I expected, (See the thread immediately below) AND I kind of need a jack plane right now to flatten my new workbench. (I glued it up a little wrong, and it has a 1/32" hill down the middle.)

Long story short, I was *given* a nearly-new Veritas jointer plane a while ago...along with a brand new toothed and high-angle blade for it(!) A retiring woodworker took interest in me, what can I say. In this situation, I'm thinking of just buying a veritas low-angle jack plane and being done with it. Yeah, it'll cost me $250 as opposed to...say...$75, but because the Veritas blades are compatible, I'll have a nice setup. And I'll just be able to get flattening. Is there something I'm missing (besides the expense vs. 'cool factor' of having a hundred-year-old tool)?

Sam, there is just as much 'cool factor' in having a new Veritas LA Jack as there is in having a century old Stanley/Bailey Jack plane. It is just a different 'cool factor.'

One thing that is cool about it is the interchangeability of blades between it and the jointer.

This would allow your to get a blade with it that isn't a duplicate of what you already have. That is another one of the 'cool factors' with the Veritas trio of bevel up planes.

In my shop there are five Jack Planes. One is an LA Bevel up Jack used mostly for end grain. Another is set up like a long smoother. One is set up as a short jointer. One is set up as a scrub plane. Finally one is set up as a try plane for rough work after the scrub.


Pre-war Sweetheart No. 5 available for sale. I have no interest in Jim Bode tools other than very rarely as a customer.

https://www.jimbodetools.com/product...eetheart-90707

Those are the kind of prices that almost tempt me to sell one of mine, but not quite.

My guess is when the nation gets past the current 'stay at home' situation there will likely be a lot of folks who finally cleaned out their garages and will have a lot of old 'junk' for sale in their yards and garages.

So if you do purchase the Veritas LA Jack and feel that is an awesome size plane to have you may be able to find a few Stanley/Bailey style Jack planes cheap. That would then let you set them up as you like so you won't have to fiddle with swapping blades and such.

jtk

[Derek Cohen]

After reading/listening to a lot of Chris Schwarz stuff, I got interested in buying a vintage pre-war Stanley jack plane. And that has proven to be a harder search and a bigger PITA than I expected, (See the thread immediately below) AND I kind of need a jack plane right now to flatten my new workbench. (I glued it up a little wrong, and it has a 1/32" hill down the middle.)

Long story short, I was *given* a nearly-new Veritas jointer plane a while ago...along with a brand new toothed and high-angle blade for it(!) A retiring woodworker took interest in me, what can I say. In this situation, I'm thinking of just buying a veritas low-angle jack plane and being done with it. Yeah, it'll cost me $250 as opposed to...say...$75, but because the Veritas blades are compatible, I'll have a nice setup. And I'll just be able to get flattening. Is there something I'm missing (besides the expense vs. 'cool factor' of having a hundred-year-old tool)?

Sam given that you immediate need is to flatten your work bench, I would use the jointer.

You need to find the high spots on your bench to remove first. You also need to determine twist, if any, with winding sticks. But, since these are all about reducing high spots, the longer jointer should not matter.

I would not use the toothed blade, just the basic blade you have. High angle is better. A LA Jack would be a good addition, since you will. find many uses for it. At this time, get one with the 25 degree bevel blade, and add a higher angle with a secondary micro bevel (see the link to an article of mine, posted in an earlier thread).

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Sam Shankar]

Thanks everyone for all these thoughts. I'm going to try the jointer on the bench and will report back.

[Robert Hazelwood]

Would not recommend getting any more bevel up planes. They are difficult to camber. To take big shavings you need a low bevel angle and then they tear out badly. To prevent tear out you need a high bevel angle and then you can only take thin shavings.

Figure out how to make your Stanley work.

In the meantime tackle this bench with the jointer. I'd try the toothed blade. Hopefully you can take shavings of at least 0.003. if so then to remove the 1/32 hump will require about 10 series of passes down the middle, staying away from the edges. Then put in the regular blade and smooth the whole surface.

[glenn bradley]

I have the Veritas BU jointer and a LAJ. I would just use your jointer. You are right about being able to swap irons around in the BU jointer, LAJ and BU Smoother being a tool multiplier. While I think your immediate need can be met with the jointer you already have, I enjoy having all three and a few extra irons/angles.

[Winston Chang]

Would not recommend getting any more bevel down planes. They are difficult to camber. To take big shavings you need a low bevel angle and then they tear out badly. To prevent tear out you need a high bevel angle and then you can only take thin shavings.


Did you mean "Would not recommend getting any more bevel up planes"?

[Robert Hazelwood]

Did you mean "Would not recommend getting any more bevel up planes"?

whoops, fixed

[Zach Dillinger]

Don't overlook wooden jack planes. They work just as well as anything else, can be had extremely inexpensively, and they are very easy to use for extended periods of time due to their light weight.

[Sam Shankar]

So here's my report back. I had never tried to really flatten anything with hand planes before. I've knocked off high spots before using the jointer and planer, but that doesn't really count. So I started out feeling both "yikes, I'm gonna hack up my brand new workbench top," and "well, where better to start than a 3" thick workbench top."

The top was crowned in the middle by 1/16 or 1/32 so there was a fair bit to remove. I did all the work with the Veritas jointer plane. I started off with the toothed iron and then switched to the 38 degree iron. The toothed plane did a great job of taking deep cuts without tearout, but I can also see why one person suggested to skip it and just go with the regular iron. That darn A2 was hard to sharpen but seemed to hold up pretty well; I probably did a total of 8 relatively light diagonal passes, which seemed like a lot but I felt like I learned something with each pass. I think I took 1/16 to maybe 1/8 off in total. Probably a lot more than one of you with skills would have needed to do.

This was work, but I really learned a lot over a few hours. Lots of repetitive planing means lots of time to figure out how to tune a plane. All in all I did a decent job, I think. Here's the finished product - the Chris Schwarz bloodlines are obvious. Benchcrafted leg vise ($300) and a 7" Wilton from craigslist ($30) plus some veritas toys. I'm sort of chicken to put a bunch of bench dog holes in, but that's the next step.
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[Rob Luter]

It looks great. When you add the dog holes, don't make the mistake I did and line them up with the center of your end vise. (see below) It places the work too far inboard to plane comfortably. Mine is made worse by a big twin screw vise that tales up a fair bit of space. Set them about 2" in from the edge of the slab and offset a dog in the vice chop.

430210

[Sam Shankar]

Set them about 2" in from the edge of the slab and offset a dog in the vice chop.

Yes, I've seen that advice a lot. I'm going to put them about that far in, and space them ~5" apart, which is the movement range of the wilton vise I put on the end. I put a 2" thick chop on that vise and plan to drill a dog hole in line with the ones on the bench.

[Graham Haydon]

The bench looks great, Sam. Good to hear you put some time in a really used them. You'll learn so much by doing! Great work!

[Matthew Hills]

I'm sort of chicken to put a bunch of bench dog holes in, but that's the next step.


Were you having any problem with the dog holes in your bench leg?

I started my first set of holes with a plunge router, finished to depth with an auger bit.
Now I just use the brace and auger bit. That works *really* well if I'm not trying to make an MFT table.
I do put a *very* light chamfer afterwards with a router. (I'm surprised to see how much chamfer Chris Schwarz was using in his recent blog posts on his benches)

Your bench is looking great.

The gramercy hold fasts have worked well with my bench.
And I also like the veritas planing stops. I often set a pair up in an L that I can plane diagonally in to. I don't really like planing with only a single stop -- it can be done, but the workpiece tends to shift around more.


Matt

[Sam Shankar]

Were you having any problem with the dog holes in your bench leg?Matt

I drilled the holes in the leg with a drill press before I assembled the bench. I plan on doing the ones in the benchtop with one of those cheap portable drill guides that is sort of like a makeshift drill press.

Why doesn't the brace-and-bit approach work for making an MFT table?

[steven c newman]

Brace & bit worked just fine for my bench...YMMV....
12" Samson Brace...powering a #13 bit....( 13/16") to use round pegs as dogs....

[David Dalzell]

Bevel up planes can be given camber. See Derek Cohen's article " The Secret to Cambering Bevel Up Plane Blades" on his website. http://www.inthewoodshop.com/index.html