Red oak blues

[Rob Luter]

I’m working on a little stay at home project using some nice straight grained red oak I’ve had in my stash for 10 years. I love lots of things about oak. QSWO is about my most favorite wood. Why does this stuff need to be so miserable to work with hand tools? It’s like working with freaking concrete sometimes. I’m thinking I need to develop an affinity for cherry.

[Mark Gibney]

Rob, are you saying you don't enjoy working with red oak, that you find it too hard for comfort? Or is there some other aspect of it that doesn't appeal to you?

I use quartersawn red oak quite a bit (I tend to fume the pieces before finish) and I find white oak to be harder, but 90% of my woodworking is with power tools.

[Jim Matthews]

Which process is consternating?

I find chopping Red Oak brutal, but the local stuff planes and saws beautifully. I wouldn't want to cut fine dovetails in it, but otherwise it's workable.

[Derek Cohen]

:)

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Doug Dawson]

Which process is consternating?

I find chopping Red Oak brutal

I would imagine that it's a great analgesic after a long day of office politics.

[Warren Mickley]

There is a lot of variation in red oak. Part of the reason is that a number of different species are dumped into the red oak lumber designation. Here in Pennsylvania we have red oak, black oak, willow oak, scarlet oak, pin oak, and occasionally laurel oak and southern red oak. ( We have a number of species in the white oak group also.) And even within a species there is some variation based on growth rate and other factors. These differences are a little more noticeable when working by hand. I think pin oak is the worst.

[James Pallas]

My wife loves oak. That being said, over the years I worked my fair share. One piece works beautifully the next piece is awful. Warren is right on about species in the mix. A person I worked under years ago called it pallet wood. He opinion was that it sometimes had dual or triple “trunks” and was loaded with a kind of disguised reaction wood. It does help you learn the meaning of sharp because of grain patterns. After the first 20 years I kinda got the hang of it. One piece works like eastern white pine the next works like some of Derek’s stone wood. A surprise in every piece.

[Prashun Patel]

It splits easily and is resistant to compression, so it’s Hard on joinery.

[Bob Glenn]

Kiln dried or air dried? It makes a big difference when using hand tools. How are your sharpening skills?

[Rob Luter]

Rob, are you saying you don't enjoy working with red oak, that you find it too hard for comfort? Or is there some other aspect of it that doesn't appeal to you?

I use quartersawn red oak quite a bit (I tend to fume the pieces before finish) and I find white oak to be harder, but 90% of my woodworking is with power tools.

Just grousing. QSWO is one of my all time favorites. It's a bear to work with but I love the look. I've done a couple projects recently with finer grained and relatively softer woods (cherry, maple) and really got used to how well they worked. Marking is easy, with knife lines are crisp and deep. Paring with a chisel is a joy. Shifting back to oak just took some of the fun out of it


Which process is consternating? I find chopping Red Oak brutal, but the local stuff planes and saws beautifully. I wouldn't want to cut fine dovetails in it, but otherwise it's workable.

It saws and planes just fine. This project has a number of hand cut dovetails. These aren't my strong suit to begin with. Cutting a decent knife line is like trying to scribe stone. Glad I learned Mike Peckovich's Blue Tape Trick. Chopping and trimming the waste is a pain. The silver lining here is it's forcing me to be that much more precise on my saw cuts.


It splits easily and is resistant to compression, so it’s Hard on joinery.

This. Brittle and splits easily, especially around dovetails.


Kiln dried or air dried? It makes a big difference when using hand tools. How are your sharpening skills?

Kiln first, then 10+ years in my arid basement shop. Sharpening skills are awesome actually. That's one element of my skill set that is exceptionally well honed (pun intended). It's discouraging when a chisel that cuts cherry like soap is brought to bear on hard stringy oak and the whole dynamic changes.

[kent wardecke]

Is the aroma of oak that makes working with it such a pleasure. Whether chopping planing or burning. It's smells like wood should smell. Pinch a saw blade and it stinks $0.02

[Andrew Seemann]

Is the aroma of oak that makes working with it such a pleasure. Whether chopping planing or burning. It's smells like wood should smell. Pinch a saw blade and it stinks $0.02

For some pieces of oak this is true. Then you get a piece of pi$$ oak. That reeks to high heaven even when you burn it.

[Prashun Patel]

Broadly speaking, most white oak smells creamy and almost like it could be coffee. Read oak smells of vinegar, which is why people think it reminds them of ketchup, urine, or feet.

[Bob Jones 5443]

This thread is making me love cherry even more.

[Rob Luter]

Broadly speaking, most white oak smells creamy and almost like it could be coffee. Read oak smells of vinegar, which is why people think it reminds them of ketchup, urine, or feet.

I love the smell of White Oak. I use scraps in my smoker for BBQ Brisket. I've used toasted White Oak chips to flavor home brewed beer too. The Red Oaks I've cut down on my property usually smell sour.

[Jim Matthews]

So is the difficulty in the dovetails?

I wonder if a router plane could be used to progressively clear waste? It would be slow going, but no hammering required.

I drill mortice in Red Oak, anymore. A little paring on the sides doesn't require a mallet (which aggravates my elbow).

[lowell holmes]

When I saw "Red Oak Blues", I thought it must be a new song.

I put a tiny back bevel on my plane irons and it helps.

[Rob Luter]

It's not the planing that makes me weary. It's the fact that no matter how sharp, a marking knife doesn't make much of a mark, and it's a pain in the biscuits to chop and pare dovetails. I like the song idea though. I'll get to work on that. I'm thinking a 12 bar format in A Minor.

[Prashun Patel]

With red oak, it's her way or the highway. It splits and works fantastically with the grain. But going against it's grain, is just asking for all kind of trouble. You're right about it being a bugger to mark. Pencils, knives, everything wants to follow the grain lines. Then to SEE the line is a pain.

[Rob Luter]

With red oak, it's her way or the highway. It splits and works fantastically with the grain. But going against it's grain, is just asking for all kind of trouble. You're right about it being a bugger to mark. Pencils, knives, everything wants to follow the grain lines. Then to SEE the line is a pain.

You're feeling my pain Prashun. I will say that using blue tape has made a huge difference in marking. Once you pull it off though, same old same old.

Blue Tape Trick (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2E61ZbHILg4)

And from our good friend Derek: https://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/HalfBlindDovetailswithBlueTape.html

[James Pallas]

Pictures of work in oak. There are lots of inlay in both red and white oak. In flat sawn, rift sawn and quarter sawn. There are 150 plus dovetails. Tails in oak on lipped drawers oak to hard maple. Not easy but doable. On dovetails a sharp chisels with a low angle, 20*, light strikes with a mallet on the baseline. Across the grain when paring if possible. Light first cuts with marking knife at first then deeper. Keep your strop by your side. I like using my Lynx 20 tip dovetail saw filed crosscut just for oak. A bit slower but cleaner cuts. I experimented a bit with using the chisel with the bevel against the baseline. I think Brian H. mentioned this technique. Seems to work okay but I need more time with the technique to comment more. Once you get a good cut started on the baseline you can switch to a steeper bevel chisel and harder strikes. If the chisel or the saw starts pulling out strings sharpen up. Haven’t used the blue tape yet. I’ll have to try it someday. I’m just starting to get back in the shop after 7 1/2 month health problem.
Jim

[Mike Allen1010]

This thread is making me love cherry even more.

+1 In my rapidly advancing old age and infirmity, I increasingly find myself ruling out potential projects in woods unfriendly to hand tools. The ease and fun of working mahogany, walnut, cherry, white pine feels like cheating- but totally worth it!:)

[Jim Matthews]

That's a very intriguing chest of drawers.

Kudos

[Jim Matthews]

it's a pain in the biscuits to chop and pare dovetails.

I ran into the same problem. When I was considering regluing the second fractured pin on the first drawer front, I did an end run with Rabbets, dowels and epoxy.429292 429291