Help with Stickley wastebasket build--wood, metal

[Warren Clemans]

I'm interested in trying to reproduce this Stickley No. 94 Scrap Basket:

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It's tapered and uses solid rivets to attach the white oak staves to the iron hoops. I'm interested in this because it seems like a good excuse to use some oak off-cuts and learn a few new skills. For such a simple-seeming project, I could use help with a bunch of things:

1.
The 1910 Stickley catalog refers to "wrought iron hoops."
I'm assuming I can make the metal hoops out of cold-rolled sheet metal by hammering it cold to form and taper it slightly, like a cooper might make barrel hoops. Does that sound reasonable? Any guesses from the photos about the gauge of metal?
2. I don't see any obvious seams or joints in the hoops in any of the photos I've seen of the inside of the basket. I'm not sure if the original would have been welded, but that's what I'm thinking of doing. Any better ideas?
3. The rivets and hoops have a nice black finish. I've found articles online on how to achieve a black finish on iron, but they all seem to involve heat and/or used motor oil. How do I get the rivets to turn black after peening them on the inside? I obviously can't use heat and oil or toxic chemicals where the metal contacts wood. I assume fuming the piece with ammonia won't cause the metal to darken, but I couldn't find a definite answer on that. Any ideas?
4. Finally, a woodworking question: How to shape the concave surface of the inside of the staves? I know there are specialty planes and drawknives used in barrel making, but that seems like overkill for such a small project. Possible make a Krenov-style plane with one of Ron Hock's radius-edge plane irons, then smooth things out with cabinet scrapers? The staves appear to be almost flat at the bottom but have a pronounced concave face at the top. Carving a changing amount of concavity bottom to top seem to call for hand work, even if there might be a way to do it with a router on a sled.
5. The solid wood bottom fits into a dado cut in the ends of the staves. I think I can figure out a way to do that with a slot cutter in the router table, but it's not completely obvious how to do it. Again, this is something barrel makers have a dedicated tool for but I don't. Any brilliant ideas?

I'd appreciate any thoughts you folks might have. I've been puzzling over these points for a while now, but am almost done with my current project so will have time to start on this one soon.

Thanks!
Warren

[Jamie Buxton]

I can't imagine that the radius on the inside face of the staves changes from top to bottom. I'd bet it is constant. Both Stickley and you can make that without crazy efforts. You can use that Krenov/Hock handplane. Or there is a technique for milling that shape with a table saw. In essense, you slide the staves left-right over the top of the blade which is barely protruding from the table's surface. It is a standard technique; look it up for more details.

[Jamie Buxton]

Me, I'm a pretty skilled woodworker, but I am intimidated by metal working. I'd seriously consider making Stickley's iron hoops from wood. I'd try either of two methods. One would be steam bending -- white oak bends very well. Or I'd do it with curved lamination -- wrapping veneer around a form, gluing as I wrap.

And I'd consider using copper rivets instead of iron. They're readily available. Copper looks great with white oak. And copper is completely period-correct.

[Brian Tymchak]

I'd seriously consider making Stickley's iron hoops from wood. I'd try either of two methods. One would be steam bending -- white oak bends very well. Or I'd do it with curved lamination -- wrapping veneer around a form, gluing as I wrap.


I'm thinking it would be difficult (impossible?) to bend a straight strip of wood into essentially a short cone with the top edge radius greater than the bottom edge radius. I think that the hoop will have to created out of segments made into a ring and then routed or turned to a cone?? The segments would need to be edge glued to have any strength.

You might be able to cut circles from the veneer to form a cone but to laminate the veneer circles into a thicker cone, each circle would have a slight difference in radius to account for the thickness of the veneer. Hmm, interesting woodworking challenge.

[Richard Coers]

I'm sure the originals hoops would have been forge welded in a blacksmith shop. You could use flat head rivets you didn't want to weld it. But you would have to taper the steel to keep it smooth around the wood. I doubt if the steel was less than 1/8" thick. I'd fume the oak before assembly. You may need to do some dye touch up if there is any sapwood. An inshave is the tool for making the cove on the staves

[Bill Dufour]

If you fume iron/steel it will rust to black and turn the oak touching it to black for 1/4 -1/2 inch. Try a little scrap in a glass jar and see what happens. Hold it up with plastic so it does not soak in the liquid. Have it touch some oak in there as well. A bare nail pounded into wood comes to mind. Or wrap some baling wire around the board.
Bil lD

[Bill Dufour]

I would form the ring from strap then rivet the ends with flush head rivets if you do not want to weld or solder.
Bil lD

[Warren Clemans]

Thanks, all. I definitely considered making the hoops from oak, but I sort of like the challenge of doing them the original way. But that might be more project than I need at this point. I'm intrigued by the idea of forge welding, but my little propane forge isn't going to cut it. I might try flush rivets--thanks for the suggestion.

I agree that the concavity in the staves might be constant over their length and I'm just not seeing much of it at the bottom because the staves are narrower there, so the curve is less pronounced.

Best,
Warren

[Jim Becker]

You could make the hoops out of wood with a taper if you taper the material before bending. A simple jig setup will allow you to do that with your thickness planer using a full length shim and the "superglue and masking tape" hold-down method. When you bend them into a circle, the thicker portion is to the top. And yes, it will require a bit of hand work where the two ends have to join. But I believe it's doable.

[Sanford Imhoff]

Here's a link to Woodsmith's plans for a similar waste basket. Like you, I would prefer the metal straps but this might give you some other ideas for construction.

https://www.woodsmithplans.com/plan/craftsman-style-wastepaper-basket/

[John C Bush]

Hi Warren,
I made bucket "kits" for for our community Fall Festival(Woodway Wa.- just south of Edmonds- 15min N of Seattle!) for the kids to assemble.
Made 75 kits--what was I thinking-- hundreds of tapered cuts--. I used #12 wire to make the hoops. Couldn't figure out how to form metal easily.
For the dado cut on the stave bottoms--cut them on the TS before you taper the staves. I still have the tapering jigs and a faint memory of how I did it all
so if you need help let me know. I was asked by the Guv. to shut down my office 'til May 18th so I have time!!! Good luck, John Bush.

[Warren Clemans]

Fantastic--I guess that's one way to make the rivets the color you want them--make 'em out of wood!

[Warren Clemans]

Thanks! I was thinking the dado would have to track a hollowed-out stave, so cutting them flat on the table saw wouldn't work. But there won't be much concavity at the bottom and you can't see the dado when the bottom is inserted, so maybe that would work.

[John C Bush]

Warren,
Forgot to mention that you want to tilt your dado stack to match the angle of the stave. JCB

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Rolled hoops are fairly easy to find, google will find a few pages of companies eager to sell them. I'd just build my own, take a strap and a band clamp, make a circle and MIG weld the beveled ends. Grind weld flush, and presto. Depending on how you want them to look, you could beat them up a little to look hand forged, and use one of the patina techniques to get the color. I personally wouldn't taper them, I'd use a thin steel like 11 gauge (1/8") , rivet to the top one first, then use a strap clamp to squeeze them to the smaller bottom hoop. The top one would flex slightly, and you'd get the look you are going for. This would also make the basket lighter than forging something thicker. Unless you want a 50# basket...

[Warren Clemans]

Thanks--hadn't thought of that but you're right.

[Tom Bender]

An accommodation to modernism may be in order here. That container will not contain trash very well and a plastic trash bag folded over the top is going to compromise the look. You could find a plastic trash can that will sit inside and a little below the top. Adjust the size of your project to suit.

or

Make an insert of stiff paper or plastic or veneer to the size you prefer.

[Tom Bender]

You may be able to taper a piece of 1/8" x 3/4" steel by hammering the top thinner than the bottom. Or there are blacksmith hobbyists that could make hoops. You may have to pay cash or pizza and beer. Or offer to make two trash cans.

Use black paint

[Tom Bender]

Is the bottom just dropped into the lower hoop and nailed, glued or loose?

[Warren Clemans]

Is the bottom just dropped into the lower hoop and nailed, glued or loose?
The bottom is a solid disc that's tapered to fit in a rabbet cut in the side staves. So one more thing to figure out--how to cut a uniform-depth rabbet in a concave board. Slotting bit in a router table, I'm thinking.

On the points about this not being suited for modern use--you're completely right, of course, but I'm not approaching this as a rational project. I'll have a rule about only using it for balled up waste paper pulled from a typewriter. The family is going to love this.

This is turning into a perfect quarantine project. Tasks:
1. Build a round-bottom Krenov-style plane to hollow the staves.
2. Learn to hammer 1/8" steel bands into hoops that flare slightly (i.e., top circumference slightly larger than bottom) (did this--the first one came out pretty well).
3. Learn to weld the hoop ends to form continuous loops. Sure I could pay someone to do it, but far more fun to figure it out myself.
4. Source and figure out how to use round-head solid steel rivets.
5. Make the metal parts black in a historically-appropriate way. I'm currently thinking japanning (homemade "paint" using asphaltum, turps and BLO, painted on thin, then baked in the oven. Good enough for Henry Ford, good enough for me.)
6. Figure out how to cut rabbets in concave surface of staves.

Warren