#7 going rates

[Jason Buresh]

I have been looking for a Stanley no7, or no8, for a long time now and it has been hard to find a decent one at a fair price. I have been scouring eBay, craigslist, and marketplace but everything I come across is either expensive or has a major flaw. I noticed most no7's are currently priced at about $125 plus another $25-$30 for shipping. Is this the going rate and do I have to bite the bullet and pick one and be done or should I keep holding out? I'm not saying I am a cheapskate, but I know they can be had for $100 or even less. I have been patient, but it's been a long hunt. Thanks for everyone's opinion.

[Mike Manning]

Sent you a PM Jason.

[Stew Denton]

Jason,

I believe the the Bay auction site is often pretty expensive, although I have bought a lot of woodworking stuff there, because you almost never see hand tool woodworking stuff show up in my area, and when you do, it is seldom of the vintage when good tools were made.

Garage sales, estate sales, and flea markets, on those few occasions when I have found desirable tools, have been much much less than on that auction site.

Stew

[Jason Buresh]

Jason,

I believe the the Bay auction site is often pretty expensive, although I have bought a lot of woodworking stuff there, because you almost never see hand tool woodworking stuff show up in my area, and when you do, it is seldom of the vintage when good tools were made.

Garage sales, estate sales, and flea markets, on those few occasions when I have found desirable tools, have been much much less than on that auction site.

Stew,

I hear ya! It's very slim pickings in my area sometimes. I have found some great deals on the more common sizes of planes but anything no 6 and above and no 3 and below is very far and few between

[Andrew Pitonyak]

My first #8, which was fantastic, was easily under $100. I gave it to a friend figured I would just get another. The next one was over $100 and not nearly as usable. If it were easy to get one for under $100 I would have just replaced the one I have. as it stands, I intend to try to fix the one I have, but I do have a nice #6 so I just use that as my large plane.

[Jim Koepke]

Stew,

I hear ya! It's very slim pickings in my area sometimes. I have found some great deals on the more common sizes of planes but anything no 6 and above and no 3 and below is very far and few between

Planes other than a #4 or #5 do not show up as often because they were only purchased by woodworkers. Many homeowners had one or two planes for maintenance around the house.

To get 'the good stuff' one has to be early to the yard and estate sales. This is what the folks who sell on ebay do. My first #7 was purchased on ebay from someone local to me for ~$40. My second was found in an antique shop with spaces for different vendors. It cost $21.25 with tax. It had been on the shelf for a while and had been passed up on many visits before. It was purchased with the intent of turning it over to another SMC member who expressed interest in rehabbing a #7. They decided they were not interested in such a daunting adventure. It is now my only #7, the other one was sold in the SMC Classifieds.

Here is the story of the rehab > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?114373

It takes a lot of effort to find an old plane. Remember that stores like Habitat for Humanity, Goodwill and many others have constantly changing inventory. This means stopping in every chance you get. That may be hard during our current situation.

Sometimes a "Want To Buy" advertisement in one of the local free shopping papers will get more results than you can handle. One of the members here does that (or at least used to) and runs a business from it.

jtk

[Stew Denton]

Jason,

I did look on the "sold" on the auction site, and there were a few #7 Stanley Bailey planes that sold for around $100, which included shipping, but not a lot. A small number sold for $90 or so and even a bit less, but not many.

Several of those had "issues" such as: 1. needing a lot of restoring, 2. being older than type 10s, which don't have a machine bolt frog adjustment machine screw (this is not an issue with some folks like Jim, who do just fine with those), cracks, significant chips missing, a missing part, pretty rusty, broken totes, etc. However, there were a few that were just fine. (I consider a tote that is broken but still 100% of the tote still there to be a very fixable situation.)

I think that you will have to pay around $100 (this includes the shipping) on the auction site to get a good plane that is all there, having no cracks in the metal or chips out of the lever cap, or other significant issues, but will need significant time and elbow grease to put in "really nice...ie: looks nice" condition. Less time to get it into "good user" but "not pretty" condition. You may have to wait a while, but based on the "sold" listings I think you should have one for that amount within 2 or 3 months if you are willing to go the $100.

To add to what Jim wrote above, the carpenters also bought a #4 or #5 plane, BTDT, if he was going to buy only one plane it would almost always be a #5, if he had two, mostly they would be a #4 in addition to the #5. The same is true with building maintenance men, etc. As Jim mentioned, normally only woodworkers such as cabinet makers, etc. (or perhaps fairly well to do Gentlemen Woodworkers) bought the other sizes.

Stew

[Jim Koepke]

I did look on the "sold" on the auction site, and there were a few #7 Stanley Bailey planes that sold for around $100, which included shipping, but not a lot. A small number sold for $90 or so and even a bit less, but not many.

Also consider these are planes that were bought by people who likely list a lot of things on ebay. They get up early every day to make the rounds or show up at yard and estate sales.

A few of my planes came from purchase of what was thought to be a junker for parts. Some of them turned out to be better planes than the ones needing the parts and are still being used on my projects.

jtk

[Stew Denton]

Jim,

Good point. I have bought "parts" planes too. I have also gotten in a hurry to bid on a "real bargain" before time ran out that I regretted and had to buy parts for. Any time I have had to buy a part, the "bargain" cost me more than it would have just to buy a good plane in the first place. I have learned the hard way (fortunately not too expensive a lesson or two) to be darned certain of what I am bidding on. If I can't see every side and bit of the tool in the photos, I DO NOT BID, no matter what the price, unless only bidding on it for parts.

Stew

[Jim Koepke]

Good point. I have bought "parts" planes too. I have also gotten in a hurry to bid on a "real bargain" before time ran out that I regretted and had to buy parts for. Any time I have had to buy a part, the "bargain" cost me more than it would have just to buy a good plane in the first place.

My last #8 was laughingly labeled "my most expensive $5 plane." It was purchased at a Habitat for Humanity ReStore with a broken frog. It could have been used as is without a lateral adjuster. A replacement frog cost me ~$35. There was a little profit in selling it.

Often finding parts will cost more than the plane. Though my days of keeping an eye on the market are mostly in the past. It seems everyone on ebay thinks something a century old is worth at least a dollar per year of age.

If the current situation calms down by the end of summer, there might be some good bargains to be had from all the people staying home and cleaning out their homes from sheer boredom. Keep your cash ready.

jtk

[Bob Jones 5443]

Wow. This post is making me wonder what century I live in. $100 for a No. 7? Not what I’ve seen on eBay over the past year, unless you want a total rehab project. Other posters are correct: these are rare in the first place. They come up about 1 or 2 a month at most. When you can find one they cost between $200 and $300 (I don’t bid).

I am perfectly happy with the Bed Rock 607, which I got “Fast and Free” for $275. It still needed some work, but now it works as well as or better than my Lie-Nielsen number 4 1/2. So I figure a valid price comparison is a Lie-Nielsen No. 7, which would’ve been over $200 more after shipping.

To the OP I would recommend tooltique in England. Right now there is a number seven in the price range I described (£225, which I guess is closer to $300). But that guy sells planes in pristine condition.

Depends, I guess, on whether you want a vintage tool you can get into shape relatively easily, one that works great out of the box with a little honing, or a major refurbishing project. I went with option 1.

But it did not cost $100.

[steven c newman]

There are two other ways to get a No. 7......Find the Millers Falls No. 22....or...the Ohio Tool Co. No. 0-7......

I'm still looking for the 22....but...I do have the Ohio no. 0-7. plus a Stanley No. 7c.....I really can't tell much of a difference between the 7c and the 0-7....
(No, I ain't saying where, or how much I paid for my 2...)
428646
Stanley No. 7, type 9...got used just this past week...

[Phil Mueller]

I recently purchased a #7 from a fellow Creeker for $125 including shipping. Nice working plane with a Hock iron. I think it’s a fair price, and frankly, I wasn’t interested in spending months looking to save $20 or $30.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Yesterday, I saw a #8 go for $50 + shipping in good shape. It was dated 1875 (ish) with a wood body and metal upper. Steve is the king of finding these things for a good price and fixing them up it seems.

[Mike Henderson]

One other option is to make a long Krenov style wood body plane. That's what I did. It's not as convenient as a Stanley because of the method of adjusting the iron but if you only use it occasionally it's fine.

This one is 20 inches long and uses an iron and chip breaker from an 1800's antique plane. The iron and chip breaker was purchased on eBay long ago.

Mike

428680

[Alan Schwabacher]

One way to find an inexpensive good planes is to first buy an expensive one so you have no need. Now keep your eyes open, and you will run across lots, particularly if you have access to MWTCA meets. If they are at a good price, buy them. Now all your friends can be well equipped.

[eugene thomas]

one for sale in the clasified that looks preatty good.///

[Stew Denton]

Jason, Steven pointed out a couple of other options besides Stanley. A third option is Keen Kutter planes, particularly the K7 model. The K7 was made by Stanley for Simmons Hardware, under their Keen Kutter brand name. The Keen Kutter "K" series was basically a type 3 Stanley Bedrock plane, but Stanley clearly did not want it to be quite as nice as their Bedrock planes, and it has the twisted type of horizontal adjuster, but the differences are strictly cosmetic. Being basically Bedrock planes, these are very good planes. You want a "K7", not a "KK7."
,
The Keen Kutter "KK" series of planes was made early on by Ohio company, and I have read that later on they may have been made by Sargent, but I don't know that with certainty. The "KK" planes are probably OK, but the "K" planes are excellent.

There is a Keen Kutter "K7" on the auction site for about $120 ($99.99 Buy it Now plus $19.99 shipping.) It appears to be in great shape, although I can't see under the frog very clearly to see how that looks. It will need minimal restoration to make it look nice and be a good user, that is if the area under the frog is OK. It looks like there is some rust on the iron and chip breaker, so I can't tell much about the business end of the cutter. If interested you may want to ask the seller about those questions.

The type 3 Bedrock is a step up from the Bailey planes, although the Bailey planes were absolutely a professional grade plane.

Stew

[Stew Denton]

Jason,

I am not sure exactly what you are looking for as far as the condition of the plane is concerned. As you have figured out, you are not going to find a #7, or almost certainly not a #8, that has already been restored to "pretty" for $120 plus shipping on the auction site.

You might find one, as mentioned earlier, at a garage sale, flea market, or estate sale, but restored to "pretty" is rare as hens teeth at such a location. You are far more likely to find one that will need to be restored, but on the other hand the price should be very attractive.

I don't know what Bob was meaning about how #7s seldom come up on the Bay auction site, because there are at least 7 listed now that will sell in the next 6 days that have a current bid of less than $100, some a LOT less. There are fewer #8s than #7s, and they do generally sell for more, as you know.

If I was only going to have one jointer plane, it would be a #7. There is a reason why there are a whole lot more #7s out there. The #8s will do a very limited number of things that are harder with a #7, but overall the old timers who earned a living using one preferred the #7, which is why you see so many more of them. That is also why I would get a 7 if I only had one. Those old timers knew what they were about.

Again, looking at the sold section on the Bay auction site, for less than $120 (which includes shipping,) I see some that should restore nicely to "pretty" with elbow grease, and plenty of Scotch Brite and #320 and #r400 sand paper. A tiny number were $100 or so which included shipping. I have done a few, and doing the bed with either bead blasting, or paint stripping, and then repainting the bed, refinishing the tote and knob, and Scotch Briting and polishing the metal, you can end up with a very nice lookng and extremely functional plane. It is not technically difficult but it does take quite a few hours and I also work over all the threads with a fine wire brush, etc.

Now I look things over very carefully from the photos on the auction site, and don't bid on a pitted beast, you want few and only very minor pits if you are going to end up with a nice looking one. Also, if the plane just is darkened with a patina, it can clean up nicely. You especially want to avoid an iron that is pitted on the business end, you can't fix that. If the pitting is limited to just at the chip breaker contact point and is clean after that point, you can cut the bad off, and I have done exactly that.

Most of us are going to go the "restore" route rather than pay the $275 or more that Bob paid, but you usually get what you pay for. Bob either paid for a plane that had been taken good care of it's entire life, or he paid for another persons labor that went into the restoration. When I was younger price was darned important, but I had time to restore a plane.

There are a number of folks like Bob out there that are happier to pay more and thus start with an excellent plane, and I say more power to them, as they know what their situation is. I just don't happen to be one of them, and there are a lot of us out there like me, and I suspect that you are also one of those.

At any rate, again, I believe that you can get a very restorable #7 on the auction site for $100 plus shipping if you keep after it.

For what it's worth, I have wanted a particular mid price Stanley combination plane for about 5 years. (We are not talking about the high dollar Stanley #55s here.) I bought a couple of irons cheap a little over 4 years ago. A year and a half or so ago I bought a reasonably priced set of irons. Over the next few months I managed to buy small parts that are frequently missing from the plane itself, but are normally pricy, and got them for about 1/2 what they normally go for. Finally a few months ago I ended up buying the plane body itself, and paid about 1/2 what they normally go for. Mine is somewhat dark, and will need considerable metal polishing, but except for being a bit dark color, it is in superb shape. My example took almost 5 years to get the entire plane, but it will eventually be very nice, and will be a great user. What I am saying here is that it can be done, but you have to have patience.

Don't let your #7 take any where near 5 years to get though.

Stew

[steven c newman]

The No. 8 in my shop at the moment...was given to me by the Late Charles Neil.....to fix up and put to use.

The Ohio 0-7 was a "trade" plane....where I traded a couple other planes for it...and rehabbed it..

That Stanley No. 7c? $25 with shipping...took a bit of clean up.

Chris Hatchet has another of my Stanley No. 7s.....a smooth sole one.

[Jason Buresh]

Hi everyone! I feel kinda foolish posting this a few days later after saying I have been hunting for a long time, but I jumped on a plane last night from eBay. I got an earlier version, which I prefer, and I paid $79 plus shipping. Very little rust but a nice patina, tote and knob are intact, the only thing is the iron may not have a ton of life left, but replacement irons aren't terribly expensive. I will post pictures once it gets here!

[Stew Denton]

Jason, congrats! Ya did good!

Looking forward to the photos, and it sounds like the plane may be good to go now "as is." The iron may need sharpening or relacing from what you wrote above, but otherwise it sounds like a good plane, and virtually good to go, again, "as is."

Stew

[Jason Buresh]

As promised, here are some pictures. I couldn't be happier! It's in beautiful shape and it even came sharp!

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Looks nice.. even better if it is a user.

[Bob Jones 5443]

Stew, you’re right about the trade off between pristine and cheap. It’s a broad spectrum. The one I bought was on the better half — but not at the end — of that spectrum.

I didn’t mean to come off like an elitist. I just didn’t want to buy in over my skill set to rehabilitate the tool. It was only my second restoration. I wanted to avoid surprises that would leave me with a vintage paperweight. Maybe I overpaid. Folks here seem to think so.

My 607 still took months before I was happy with it. The derusting and polishing took the usual few hours of soaking and abrasion. The frog seating was fine, so probably the 1922 tool was well cared for during its life. All the surfaces did need cleaning and polishing. But none of that was hard for me.

What took time was making sure the sole was flat. Why have a jointer plane that’s not flat? This part took me on an odyssey that culminated in my finally buying a 6x18” granite surface plate. I tried for months to find someone who would let me use their plate, but came up empty. Once I had the plate (on steep sale from Woodcraft), I was in business after a round of swipes. I proceeded to flatten my bench. Delight!

Overall my plane was not in excellent condition when it arrived, but it was not so far from it that I couldn’t get it there by myself.

The plane is now indeed pristine and exquisitely tuned, and I still paid far less than a L-N No. 7 would cost.

My sense is that my least favorite part of the job is the deep cleaning and rust removal. My seller had not done the work; he had just bought wisely from some estate sale I couldn’t go to.

I’d do it again with this price/condition combo. And those are the planes I don’t see every day on the Site That Shall Not Be Named.

[Stew Denton]

Mike,

Very nice job and plane.

Stew

[Jason Buresh]

Andrew,

I gave it a test run and I have no complaints

[Stew Denton]

Bob,

It sounds to me like you get a well deserved "Ya Did Good" for the way the plane turned out. I have done a few myself, so I know what it takes to get that done, but I have never tried to flatten the sole of one like you did.

You may have paid more than you should have for the 607......join the crowd....I would guess almost all of us here have at one time or another have done something similar. When it comes to paying too much, I certainly have. I did worse than Jim, because I have at least 2, not one, "great bargain" planes that after I bought parts were a couple of over priced bargains.

I have learned to be a bit more careful now, and now am a lot more picky about what I bid on or buy outright. I have gotten more like you in that I try to get stuff that can be restored with less than a ton of time and effort. It is worth spending an extra 15 or 20 bucks to save 10 hours of restoration time. Fortunately I have most of the tools I need now.

I have watched the prices of the planes go up and down over a period of years, at times the prices are a lot higher than at other times. Usually the bigger Bed Rock jointer planes sell for quite a bit if they are pretty nice though, particularly the flat sides like you have.

It sounds like you ended up with a great plane, the 607, a plane that is completely restored to very nice condition, and that is also a great user. That's all you can ask.

Regards,

Stew

[steven c newman]

Both look good! Now....how about the all-important shot of shavings being made?
428927
Stanley No. 7c, type 9

[Jim Koepke]

Looks like you did good Jason.

My #7 is from about the same time period didn't look as nice as yours when it came home:

428928

It came out looking pretty good:

428929

It really doesn't feel like that was over 10 years ago. It is a great user.

jtk

[Bob Jones 5443]

Parting comment on this thread: When you're firm about features, you paint yourself into a corner and end up paying more. That was me. I wanted a Type 6a, large adjustment wheel, flat/not ogee frog, smooth bottom, no pitting. Of the four 607s on the site now, none of them match my criteria. I should have specified that in my earlier post. So I was destined to pay more when "mine" popped up. I was having a pretty good year business-wise, and I still had that L-N price point as my standard. So what's the max I "overpaid" –– $100? $150? I doubt it's that high. There were no other planes on the site like that before or after for months.

This might sound defensive, but I don't mean it that way. I'm thrilled with the plane and I am happy with its price. If someone pulls out one like it for $80 I'll eat my hat.

[Jason Buresh]

Parting comment on this thread: When you're firm about features, you paint yourself into a corner and end up paying more. That was me. I wanted a Type 6a, large adjustment wheel, flat/not ogee frog, smooth bottom, no pitting. Of the four 607s on the site now, none of them match my criteria. I should have specified that in my earlier post. So I was destined to pay more when "mine" popped up. I was having a pretty good year business-wise, and I still had that L-N price point as my standard. So what's the max I "overpaid" –– $100? $150? I doubt it's that high. There were no other planes on the site like that before or after for months.

This might sound defensive, but I don't mean it that way. I'm thrilled with the plane and I am happy with its price. If someone pulls out one like it for $80 I'll eat my hat.

Bob,

At the end of the day it's your money and your time. There is no shame in spending a little more to get what you want instead of settling for something cheaper. Say you bought one for $100 or even less, how much time will you spend making it what you want?

Could you have saved some money? Perhaps. But how much longer would you have looked for a plane that meets your criteria?

It sounds like you are happy with your plane, and that's all that matters! As long as it brings you joy and didn't put you in debt or make you sick to your stomach every time you look at it I don't feel you overpaid.

[Jason Buresh]

Both look good! Now....how about the all-important shot of shavings being made?
428927
Stanley No. 7c, type 9428934

I promise I didn't take shavings off the bench and put them in the plane.

[Stew Denton]

Bob,

+1 to what Jason wrote. From the criteria you wrote, I can see why you had to pay a lot. One like you describe does not come up all that often, and a lot of folks want that kind of plane.

I got a good price on my combination plane, but might have done better by buying a complete plane with all the irons at one time when I first started looking, but the price of such was a bit daunting. Looking at what nice complete sets cost now on the auction site, I got a real bargain. Some sellers are nuts IMHO, and they think some of the combination planes are worth $3 to $5 for each year of age (more than the $1 per year of age Jim mentioned for the bench planes.)

Like you I had criteria: irons with virtually no corrosion on the backs, all of the parts present (except one part you almost never see...that part is very high dollar due to collectors, one such part recently sold for more than my complete set of irons some have sold for as much as my complete plane with irons...and I would probably never use that part anyway), mechanically in great shape with very little corrosion, etc. Mine does have petena and is pretty dark, which I will work on with metal polish.

However, it took me over FOUR years to get all of the parts! If I had done what you did that plane would already have been restored and I would have probably used it. As it is, it is on my desk now and waiting for it's turn to be restored. Thus, I think what you did was smarter than what I did to get my plane. (I'm pushing toward being an old coot, but I believe you CAN teach an old dog new tricks, so there may be hope for me yet.)

So BTDT. What I am saying is I think you did well, and I think Jason also did well. You both have the plane you want and I think Jason's plane will work very well for him also.

Regards,

Stew

[Stew Denton]

Jason, COOL! You are on your way!

I also liked the way Jim's plane looked after he restored it, and as always, Steven gets his planes taking great shavings pretty much within a short time after he buys it.

Seeing the old tools come back to life is always great I think. There is just something about that which always seems neat to me and I really enjoy seeing folks restoring a fine old tool. Bob sounds like his plane is an absolute winner too. I have a 608 type 3 that needs to be brought back to life, but it has a long row to hoe. Eventually it will receive some TLC. (I have nothing against the new high quality tools and sometimes you have to go that route. I don't really know why, but I just would rather have and use one of the old timers.)

At any rate again "Ya Did Good!"

Regards,

Stew

[Jim Koepke]

When you're firm about features, you paint yourself into a corner and end up paying more.

If you got what you want and it didn't cause financial distress or have the wife put you in the dog house, it doesn't really matter. Sometimes our desires for a particular item leads us to 'go crazy,' BTDT and likely went back for more.


One like you describe does not come up all that often, and a lot of folks want that kind of plane.

If you have ever watched American Pickers, Mike Wolfe often says the time to buy it is when you see it.

jtk

[Eric Danstrom]

Thanks to all the unfounded bad press/reputation from forums such as this one I bought type 19s for cheap, 3 through 8. They all came flat and rip half a thou shavings after I sharpened the blades. OP, take advantage of the hype around the older pre-30's planes that are grossly overpriced and usually warped. Instead enjoy a nice flat, ready to use type 19 for a fraction of the price!

428939428938

(All with OEM rosewood totes/knobs except the #5 which I made them from some rosewood I had.)

[Jake Hillestad]

the time to buy it is when you see it.

jtk

I subscribe to that way of thinking as well. Funny thing is I find that as soon as I pull the trigger on that hard to come by item about 3 more will show up in rapid succession, usually for less than I paid - sometimes in better shape. Can be irksome.... Case in point, it took me over a year to find a complete/non basket case Keen Kutter K7-C on the auction site. Within the last month 2 more have been listed and looks like there is one currently running.