Close the beaches

[Jon Grider]

First, let's be civil in this thread. Since there are those that insist on not letting their spring break be interrupted, maybe laid off service industry workers could be "deputized" in a limited but official manner to give beach goers tickets. The fact that there are still beaches open and parties going on makes me question some local governments sincerity on doing their part to combat this virus. Money generated from tickets could be used to help unemployed workers.

[Erik Loza]

I was shocked to see so many people there and the "I don't care if I get"-type comments. I'll be the last guy to want too much government in anything but do these local officials not get the seriousness of this situation? It's not politics, it's public safety.

Erik

[Prashun Patel]

I have people here at work who still think it's overblown.

I am shocked time and time again that people usually believe what they believe and facts have little impact on that.

I won't get political about that.

[eugene thomas]

I do think people are over reacting but would i go to beach now... no.

[Jeff Monson]

There just seems to be no consistency with policies from state to state. We cant have groups larger than 10 people around here and personally I think its a great policy. Now I turn on the tv and see a mob of kids on the beach! It blows my mind that all these young people care more about a week of vacation than public safety. They will all have a great time and then return to their homes all across the country. And we wonder how it spreads so quickly.

[Jim Becker]

What's particularly concerning now is that with actual statistics coming out, younger folks are indeed vulnerable to this virus and a healthy percentage of folks needing the ICU are younger than original speculation may have indicated. So yea...all the spring-breakers on the beach is very much concerning.

[Stephen Tashiro]

In my youth, I recall that when there was a polio outbreak, the health authorities closed the swimming pools. We weren't near a beach. What did officials in beach towns do?

[Lee DeRaud]

I'm getting a chuckle from the comments on this thread: a discussion of beaches by people in places where going to the beach in the middle of March is improbable to say the least.

Yeah, I get the concern, but I kind of doubt the people going to the beaches are likely to embrace (no pun intended) the concept of "social distancing" no matter where they are.

[Bill McNiel]

In my youth, I recall that when there was a polio outbreak, the health authorities closed the swimming pools. We weren't near a beach. What did officials in beach towns do?

I don't believe that the oceans and beaches were a consideration during the polio "outbreak".

[Jon Grider]

I'm getting a chuckle from the comments on this thread: a discussion of beaches by people in places where going to the beach in the middle of March is improbable to say the least.

Yeah, I get the concern, but I kind of doubt the people going to the beaches are likely to embrace (no pun intended) the concept of "social distancing" no matter where they are.

I get your point, but public gathering places are being closed all over. Warm areas with beaches that attract crowds should be as well. The kids on the beaches in Florida, California, and Lake Havasu will be coming home to Ohio and Michigan and Nebraska, etc. , so maybe it's time for states or cities to mandate beach closings. Or maybe the locales could quarantine them for a couple of weeks if they want to continue to let the party go on.

[Stephen Tashiro]

Upon further internet browsing, several articles about the history of polio mention closing beaches. For example, https://www.npr.org/sections/npr-history-dept/2015/04/10/398515228/defeating-the-disease-that-paralyzed-america





The public was horribly and understandably frightened by polio," says Oshinsky, who grew up in Queens, N.Y. "There was no prevention and no cure. Everyone was at risk, especially children. There was nothing a parent could do to protect the family. I grew up in this era. Each summer, polio would come like The Plague. Beaches and pools would close — because of the fear that the poliovirus was waterborne. Children had to say away from crowds, so they often were banned from movie theaters, bowling alleys, and the like. My mother gave us all a 'polio test' each day: Could we touch our toes and put our chins to our chest?

[Mike Henderson]

I suspect that for Florida, spring break is big business and there was a lot of pressure to keep it open.

The fallacy of keeping the beaches open is that the kids have to stay somewhere and they are almost certain to party in congested places. You may have a lesser chance of transmission at the beach, but that's only part of the day.

Mike

[Steve Eure]

Here in Ga. we have had 3 deaths contributed to the virus. One in Atlanta area, and two in the Albany area. All three individuals that died were attending a funeral in town. So far they have tested and confirmed 23 positives and more to come as test results come in from those tested. These young people better take heed. The virus may or may not make them overly sick, but they can carry it to someone who's immune system cannot handle it and it will kill them. It could be their parents or grandparents who succumb to it. Be careful out there. This is more serious than anyone imagined.
Another issue is while many schools have shut down around here, the kids aren't listening and staying home where they belong. Their running the streets.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I read an article this morning that the Illinois Funeral Directors Association and Medical Examiners were recommending canceling funerals, wakes and visitations that would draw more than 10 people. At the IFDA's website, here is a copy of their statement.

"The IFDA Board of Directors recommends following the CDC guidelines on gatherings, and this includes those directly related to any funerals, visitations, or graveside services.

All gatherings of ten (10) or more should be canceled, and/or only conducted with a limit of ten (10) or less people. Viewings should only be permissive with ten (10) or less people. Graveside services should be private and conducted with ten (10) or less people. This information is subject to change per recommendations by the Federal Government and CDC.

These implemented directives are to comply with current recommendations by the Federal Government and the CDC. Indeed, our compliance with these directives is to keep your families safe, as well as the staff at the respective funeral homes."

[Jim Becker]

Ken, the family in NJ that just suffered three losses from something like 7 people sick apparently contracted it at a funeral. The advice is sound, IMHO. Folks will have to adapt to the new reality for awhile, unfortunately, and that includes end of life celebrations. Group celebrations can be delayed or folks can get creative via technology if need be.

[Zachary Hoyt]

I'll be heading to the beach on Lake Ontario this summer, as long as it's not flooded again. The part where I go tends to be pretty quiet, with 100 yards or more between individuals or groups, and I always go alone. It's also only accessible by canoe or boat, so people don't have to walk past each other to get to their spot. I think the problem right now is fundamentally with crowding, and the beaches are just where it happens to be happening, but I may be wrong.

[Jim Koepke]

I suspect that for Florida, spring break is big business and there was a lot of pressure to keep it open.

The fallacy of keeping the beaches open is that the kids have to stay somewhere and they are almost certain to party in congested places. You may have a lesser chance of transmission at the beach, but that's only part of the day.

Mike

A company that makes high tech thermometers, Kinsa, has a tracking app showing above normal temp rises in users. Florida looks to be way above normal > https://bocanewsnow.com/2020/03/20/coronavirus-fever-map-suggests-trouble-ahead-for-palm-beach-county/

Their maps have been showing 'hot spots' ahead of CDC testing.

The deadliest factor in this outbreak may turn out to be the deluge of misinformation coming from what all too many have believed to be trusted sources.

jtk

[Mark Bolton]

The bonus of closing the beaches is that the ding-a-lings who dont listen to, and follow the rules, and choose to fluff off their parents college fund savings for them or their own future perril with student loans, will concentrate themselves in hotel and motel rooms to get their party on and likely concentrate contamination to their own foolish circle.

I highly doubt it will happen, and it would be sad to see a generation of outside the box and look around the corner thinkers go down but at least they would contain it to their own foolish keg stand, funnel beer, girls gone wild, lunacy.

I say lock the beaches down and concentrate them in the hotels and they are allowed to take charge of their own future.

I dont in any way prescribe to the notion that part of you "college experience" should be inverting yourself over a keg of beer, shoving a piece of plastic tubing down your throat while someone pours a beer in a funnel, or a bunch of girls flashing themselves and being taken advantage of in a drunken disaster they will regret for the rest of their lives. Whether its at the beach, or a fraternity, sorority, whatever. You are there spending either your own or someone elses precious dollars and you should take advantage of the opportunity to bleed the place dry of knowledge not paper towels to clean up the puke of the floor (which they likely dont do).

Full agreement with one of the press conferences that it would be very sad to see a generation of creative thinkers compromised but if thats the route they choose, so be it.

[Edwin Santos]

The bonus of closing the beaches is that the ding-a-lings who dont listen to, and follow the rules, and choose to fluff off their parents college fund savings for them or their own future perril with student loans, will concentrate themselves in hotel and motel rooms to get their party on and likely concentrate contamination to their own foolish circle.

I highly doubt it will happen, and it would be sad to see a generation of outside the box and look around the corner thinkers go down but at least they would contain it to their own foolish keg stand, funnel beer, girls gone wild, lunacy.

I say lock the beaches down and concentrate them in the hotels and they are allowed to take charge of their own future.



I think the public health concern is what might happen in terms of spread when spring breakers like your describe go back home to their communities all over the country. It seems to now be apparent that even an asymptomatic younger person is an effective spreader of the virus, if even unknowingly.

[Jim Becker]

Edwin, that's pretty correct. There are asymptomatic people and also those who might be exposed while on spring break and not show any signs until a week or more later after they are back home. My younger daughter and I talked about this earlier in the context of spending time with her boyfriend, which is a pretty serious relationship at this point, and rather than heading out to do the normal fun stuff they would likely do, it's now all walks/hikes in deserted parks and "Netflix and Chill" without being around other people. They are pretty smart folks and know the score, especially since Profesor Dr. SWMBO could be more susceptible to issues from this virus for reasons I'll not state. A number of college students I know unfortunately haven't been quite as wise and it's troubling.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

A week ago, the local woodworking club had it's monthly meeting. In the 9 days prior to that meeting, my wife and I traveled through the following airports in this sequence, Phoenix, LAX, Long Beach, Phoenix, Phoenix, Fresno, Fresno, SLC, Lewiston, ID. Worrying more about maybe having become an asymptomatic carrier, I didn't attend that meeting in an effort to not spread the disease, just in case.

In the 34 years I worked in hospital radiology department I know of 2 cases where coworkers developed hepatitis C from being accidentally stuck by used needles carelessly lost by technologists either under the patient pallets or into the gantry of CT scanners or failing to glove up when incurring body liquids left on CT or MR scanners. I place some of my lack of disease to being careful. Once stuck by a needle used on an infected patient it's too late to look for used needles. Once contacting with unprotected hands body liquids from infected patients, it's too late to glove up.

I didn't panic buy TP or other essentials, I am not over reacting to the news. I want to be informed, be careful and yet, I don't want to be stupid either.

[Mark Bolton]

I think the public health concern is what might happen in terms of spread when spring breakers like your describe go back home to their communities all over the country. It seems to now be apparent that even an asymptomatic younger person is an effective spreader of the virus, if even unknowingly.

I dont even know why that would "seem to now be apparent". The common cold, flu, and many others are spread at numerous levels. Some have symptoms, some minimal, some none. As stated in the daily briefs a lot of conclusions can be found based on the past but the unknowns are the unknowns.

My gut feeling is this thing is going to blow over and we will have made a smart but gross over-reaction and some percentage will curse the over-reaction for their eternity and others will take comfort in the fact that even though it was painful it was smart.

Ive been the card carrying member of the invincible crowd for a lot more years than my teens but pretty much none of that has been at the cost/jeopardy to others.

Im sure some spring breakers are being safe and smart.

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

Gonna get worse before better. Here in PA we have some of the stupidest new rules imaginable. Paper pulp mills may stay open because paper is used in medical supplies, BUT loggers may not cut trees or transport them to the pulp mill. (Our governor thinks paper comes from either Staples or thin air) Also, saw mills must remain closed, so there are no rough cut boards to make the skids to transport the paper meant for medical supplies. Food store may remain open, but not Specialty food stores like Health food stores (ironic huh?) or candy stores (but wait a minute) Candy factories like Hershey, Reeses and Mars employing thousands of people in a single building may stay open. Oh yeas and about those medical supplies so desperately needed They closed all the highway rest areas, so truckers have no place to pull over and rest or use the crapper. So medical supplies are delayed. And last, commercial laundries must close under threat of fines etc. So those hospitals and nursing homes that do not have in house laundries can't even get clean sheets or gowns. Yep there's some winners in government. Oh and the way our Governor phrased it, only life sustaining businesses may remain open. I am still trying to figure out what life sustaining importance or medical significance is held by a gummy worm. Perhaps it was the big campaign contribution by the Confectionery workers union?

As for the beaches, I have mixed feelings. Are they really risking any more than had they stayed home and attended parties at each other's houses and infecting each other's families? As far as spreading the disease or getting it, the most dangerous place in this state is now the supermarket.

[George Yetka]

I wander if maternity wards will be crowded in 9 months?
As far as these spring breakers, they're pretty selfish. Even if they dont get sick they could carry it to others. They're no better than the chinese government

[Mark Bolton]

I wander if maternity wards will be crowded in 9 months?

My guess is you may see a tiny bump but the younger generations are not spawning. You may likely see a spike in divorce/broken relationships due to mutual confinement and forced interaction. If the widespread notion that the load on data comes into play where two people supposedly in a "relationship" cant sit across the dinner table from each other without each staring at their phones like the do at the restaurant you may really see all hell break loose.

[Jim Koepke]

The easiest way to close the beaches would be to quarantine all the partiers for a few weeks.

In Italy one town stopped the spread > https://www.livescience.com/small-italian-town-cuts-coronavirus-cases-testing.html


This mass testing revealed that about 3% of residents were infected with the virus, and of these, about half did not show any symptoms, according to ProMarket, the blog of the Stigler Center at the University of Chicago Booth School of Business. After two weeks of a strict lockdown and quarantine of cases, only 0.25% of residents were infected. The town isolated these last few cases and has since reopened.

Identifying and isolating those who test positive for Covid-19 whether or not they are showing symptoms so far appears to be the most effective way of halting the spread.

jtk

[Lee DeRaud]

You may likely see a spike in divorce/broken relationships due to mutual confinement and forced interaction.Hopefully not a spike of full-blown domestic violence.

[Doug Dawson]

A company that makes high tech thermometers, Kinsa, has a tracking app showing above normal temp rises in users. Florida looks to be way above normal > https://bocanewsnow.com/2020/03/20/coronavirus-fever-map-suggests-trouble-ahead-for-palm-beach-county/

Their maps have been showing 'hot spots' ahead of CDC testing.

The deadliest factor in this outbreak may turn out to be the deluge of misinformation coming from what all too many have believed to be trusted sources.


I saw that too. I thought sunlight was supposed to be a really good disinfectant, UV radiation and all that. Our old washing machine had a UV light in it, shining down on the clothes, sanctifying them.

[Ole Anderson]

Identifying and isolating those who test positive for Covid-19 whether or not they are showing symptoms so far appears to be the most effective way of halting the spread.

jtk I am staying just off Anna Maria Island south of Tampa. The large Manatee County beaches are now closed and the associated parking gates are shut. Not a big college destination but local schools were on spring break and flooded the beaches with families and high schoolers. A real shame for those families on vacation and can't use the beaches that are only a block away. Of course that is the least of our problems.

With no mass testing there is no way to identify those that are carrying it but asymptomatic. Those that want to get tested can't unless they meet certain criteria. And now whether or not you traveled out of the country is a moot point.

[Frank Drackman]

I live in a beach town in southern Maine. It has been crazy with out of state people heading north to an area of less people.

With good weather forecast for this weekend the parking lots will be full and the beach will look like Woodstock.

I expect that the town will close all of the parking lots on Monday.

[Jason Roehl]

I saw that too. I thought sunlight was supposed to be a really good disinfectant, UV radiation and all that. Our old washing machine had a UV light in it, shining down on the clothes, sanctifying them.

You mean "sanitizing" them? Or were you washing with holy water? (Sorry, I couldn't resist... :D )

[Mark Bolton]

I thought sunlight was supposed to be a really good disinfectant, UV radiation and all that. Our old washing machine had a UV light in it, shining down on the clothes, sanctifying them.

This was just covered on Science friday last week. Sunlight is not a reliable disinfectant I think the line was perhaps unless you were in Arizona or Death Valley or something lol. 130 degrees (clothes dryer) was mentioned as an acceptable heat disinfectant.

[Bill Dufour]

I bet dating today is very different then in my youth. Hard to maintain a six foot distance from the one you love, or hope to love someday.
Want to come up to my place and see my toilet paper?
If you kiss me I will even let you use some of my toilet paper.
Why no, I have not been tested for STD's but I am tested safe for corona, how about you?
Bil lD.

[Jim Becker]

Bill, I agree that it's a challenge...something my younger is dealing with, but at least she and her pretty serious boyfriend are staying out of public places and away from people...hiking and 'hanging, as it were. I really will feel bad for them both should someone in either household get the virus and force physical isolation.

[Mike Kees]

Here where I live in Alberta this is getting real. 200+ cases tested positive as of yesterday and two deaths so far. Everyone freaked out and toilet paper remains a very hot commodity. Theaters,bars public pools,gyms,and lots of restaurants closed. Others are drive through or take-out only. Self-isolation and social distancing are all you hear over and over. It is a real threat and I can not believe that people are not taking precautions ,even if just to minimize exposure to others who may be more vunerable than yourself. Hope all here stay safe . Our economy is taking a massive hit and that may well be the most devastating long term effect of Coronavirus here. The hardest part for me is NHL hockey being shut down right at the end of season playoff drive. Going to be stocking up on material in my shop in case of extended mandated self isolation. If you check the spread of this virus from a global perspective and the speed that it multiplies at elsewhere we are at the beginning of about 2 months or so of tough times. Be prepared and stay calm is my plan.

[Jim Koepke]

I saw that too. I thought sunlight was supposed to be a really good disinfectant, UV radiation and all that. Our old washing machine had a UV light in it, shining down on the clothes, sanctifying them.


This was just covered on Science friday last week. Sunlight is not a reliable disinfectant I think the line was perhaps unless you were in Arizona or Death Valley or something lol. 130 degrees (clothes dryer) was mentioned as an acceptable heat disinfectant.

It was your old washing machine that had the UV light in it. In my younger days we used take apart old appliances and would enjoy playing with these lights and circuits in dryers that produced UV or ozone as disinfectants.

For some reason they are not as common in today's machines.

UV light's effectiveness at killing germs does depend on the intensity of the light and the duration of time. If blocked by obstacles, it may be ineffective.

jtk

[Doug Dawson]

UV light's effectiveness at killing germs does depend on the intensity of the light and the duration of time. If blocked by obstacles, it may be ineffective.


That's why you should sunbathe naked, if possible.

I am aware of no study that investigates how long the virus lasts on surfaces put out in the sun. That would be quite interesting.

[Doug Dawson]

You mean "sanitizing" them? Or were you washing with holy water? (Sorry, I couldn't resist... :D )

My spill checker was exercising poetic license. BTW, all fresh water is holy. (You'll see in time...)