Wood ID help!

[Ricc Havens]

Sorry I forgot to get a couple photos of the bark or end grain of the piece before I started turning it. But, does anyone have an idea of the wood species? At first I thought it was walnut - But it didn't have the thick bark that the black walnut around here has. I don’t think it's english walnut as this is more reddish brown than the other english walnut pieces I have. By the way, this does have one coat of minwax antique oil on it which darkened it a bit.

428254428255428256428257428258

Thanks!!!
Ricc

[Andrew Seemann]

Any chance it is apple? What is left of the bark and the heartwood kind of look like it.

[Tom Wilson66]

My first thought is redbud. Looks a lot like some that I got from my back yard after a wind storm.
Tom

[tom lucas]

Could also be hickory. How hard is it? Hickory is pretty wicked hard.

[bob pfohler]

I don’t think it’s apple, I’m with hickory. Apple is beautiful but so unstable.

[Ricc Havens]

I don't thinks it's hickory as it wasn't wicked hard and it's not as light colored as the other few pieces of hickory that I have. Might be apple. a local orchard last year was clearing a section of their land to replant a different crop. A friend grabbed a few chunks and brought me a couple pieces. this may have been one of those he gave me that I forgot to label. But, on the other hand, I know apple is unstable and prone to cracking and this piece did have a few small cracks I had to turn past and work around but not the extreme cracking a couple of the other pieces did.

Any other input??

Thanks
Ricc

[Dave Mount]

Walnut has a chambered pith, meaning that the very center of a stem is hollow except for some membranes that create a series of chambers. I can't see for sure, but the pith does not look like walnut.

Apple has the high sapwood/heartwood contrast, but all the pieces I've ever turned have had heartwood that is more red than how the color appears in the photos (which can be deceiving).

Best,

Dave

[Dave Mount]

Here's a picture of a walnut twig showing the chambered pith. The pith is usually about 1/8" across.

https://www.thedailygarden.us/uploads/4/5/4/9/45493619/screen-shot-2018-08-14-at-6-54-30-am_orig.png

[bob pfohler]

I see a lot of apple, it’s really hard to find a piece that size that hasn’t checked or cracked. The apple I’ve seen has a color more like cherry and has a very distinct smell when turned.
I have also seen a lot of hickory a the local cabinet shop where I get a lot of wood. The contrasting sap and heartwood I’ve seen in hickory cabinets is just like your turning.

[John K Jordan]

#1 - look closely at the end grain. Look at the end grain If it's ring porous that will eliminate a lot of possibilities. The Wood Database includes an "Endgrain" paragraph and a photo of the end grain of each species. Use it to narrow down the choices. Since you lost the bark and don't have leaves this is your best chance at ID.

You can still easily look at the end grain if you have a small scrap, perhaps from the tenon of the turning. Shave the end grain with a single-edged razor blade following the instructions on the wood ID page of the Wood Database website. Examine with a hand magnifier.

If no scrap piece remains, use a magnifier to look at the finished end grain in your turning. The pores will be clogged with sawdust and finish but the difference between ring porous and diffuse porous will probably be obvious.

Here is a photo of a well-prepared sample of one of the hickories. Hickory is ring porous.
428394

This is a photo of the end grain of Apple. Apple is diffuse porous. Entirely different structure.
428395

Other distinguishing things that require experience to judge are relative density and smell.

Many, many species have dark heartwood and light sapwood. Specific pieces of even a known species can vary widely in color so that can be a hint but is not a reliable indicator. Look at the woodpics at hobbithouseinc.com to appreciate the variation in appearance.

I use microscopes to examine the end grain and count the cell width of the rays, check for fluorescence with UV light, and occasionally use chemical tests. You can also send a sample to the US government for ID and they will do all the hard work for free.

Whether a particular sample quickly develops cracks depends on so many factors I never even consider it. The relative stability of end grain turnings is difficult to judge since it doesn't warp the same way as face grain turnings.

JKJ




Sorry I forgot to get a couple photos of the bark or end grain of the piece before I started turning it. But, does anyone have an idea of the wood species? At first I thought it was walnut - But it didn't have the thick bark that the black walnut around here has. I don’t think it's english walnut as this is more reddish brown than the other english walnut pieces I have. By the way, this does have one coat of minwax antique oil on it which darkened it a bit.

428254428255428256428257428258

Thanks!!!
Ricc

[Ricc Havens]

John, I don't have a high powered loop or magnifier. I did find a chunk in the trash from the cut off and tried to cut a slice with a razor blade. Couldn't get a good slice as the wood was hard and the blade would just cut small chunks not a nice thin slice. But, I used my air hoes to blow out the end grain as much as possible and used my Iphone at 10X zoom with a tripod to hopefully get slightly better photos than in my first post. Not sure it will help or not but here they are.

Thanks
Ricc
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#1 - look closely at the end grain. Look at the end grain If it's ring porous that will eliminate a lot of possibilities. The Wood Database includes an "Endgrain" paragraph and a photo of the end grain of each species. Use it to narrow down the choices. Since you lost the bark and don't have leaves this is your best chance at ID.

You can still easily look at the end grain if you have a small scrap, perhaps from the tenon of the turning. Shave the end grain with a single-edged razor blade following the instructions on the wood ID page of the Wood Database website. Examine with a hand magnifier.

If no scrap piece remains, use a magnifier to look at the finished end grain in your turning. The pores will be clogged with sawdust and finish but the difference between ring porous and diffuse porous will probably be obvious.

Here is a photo of a well-prepared sample of one of the hickories. Hickory is ring porous.
428394

This is a photo of the end grain of Apple. Apple is diffuse porous. Entirely different structure.
428395

Other distinguishing things that require experience to judge are relative density and smell.

Many, many species have dark heartwood and light sapwood. Specific pieces of even a known species can vary widely in color so that can be a hint but is not a reliable indicator. Look at the woodpics at hobbithouseinc.com to appreciate the variation in appearance.

I use microscopes to examine the end grain and count the cell width of the rays, check for fluorescence with UV light, and occasionally use chemical tests. You can also send a sample to the US government for ID and they will do all the hard work for free.

Whether a particular sample quickly develops cracks depends on so many factors I never even consider it. The relative stability of end grain turnings is difficult to judge since it doesn't warp the same way as face grain turnings.

JKJ

[Prashun Patel]

"I used my air hoes to blow out the end grain"

There's a joke in here, somewhere... ;)

[John K Jordan]

John, I don't have a high powered loop or magnifier. I did find a chunk in the trash from the cut off and tried to cut a slice with a razor blade. Couldn't get a good slice as the wood was hard and the blade would just cut small chunks not a nice thin slice.

You don't need a high power loop or magnifier. 10x is more than enough.

Shaving the wood with a new single edged razor blade can be difficult but is MUCH easier if you first soak the sample in water for a while which will soften it. I often soak the pieces. I have to use a new razor blade on each sample so I buy them in packages of 100 - very cheap. You can also use a medical scalpel or a razor sharp bench chisel or carving chisel.

I usually cut end grain samples to inspect on the bandsaw, making them about 1/2" thick and maybe 1/2" x 3/4". I usually only slice clean a tiny spot, enough to expose a ring or so. I don't get fanatical about it. Slicing is helpful since sawing and sanding tend to obscure the pores. For some ring porous woods, the very tiny pores in the late wood are distinctive identifiers, for example elm and oak are very easy to ID this way.

Besides the pores themselves, the presence of tyloses plugging the pores will help narrow down a sample even more.

If interested in Wood ID, one of the best resources is the book Identifying Wood by R. Bruce Hoadley, available on Amazon. I've used mine so much all the pages are falling out.

JKJ

[tom lucas]

I don't thinks it's hickory as it wasn't wicked hard and it's not as light colored as the other few pieces of hickory that I have. Might be apple. a local orchard last year was clearing a section of their land to replant a different crop. A friend grabbed a few chunks and brought me a couple pieces. this may have been one of those he gave me that I forgot to label. But, on the other hand, I know apple is unstable and prone to cracking and this piece did have a few small cracks I had to turn past and work around but not the extreme cracking a couple of the other pieces did.

Any other input??

Thanks
Ricc


Hickory can be quite dark and variable from really light to almost walnut-like, which is why I suggested it's hickory. But hickory is very hard wood. So perhaps it is apple. You can usually smell apple.

[Pat Scott]

Looks like Crabapple to me.

[William C Rogers]

Sand the end grain and take a 10x picture with your phone. Then compare to JKJ’s photos. I think it is hickory.

[bob pfohler]

I was certain it was hickory until I saw the bark. I see a lot of Apple and most that I’ve seen don’t have that color variation between sap and heartwood.
Someone suggested crabapple which I’ve never turned, most of my apple comes from the local orchard.

[John K Jordan]

I was certain it was hickory until I saw the bark. I see a lot of Apple and most that I’ve seen don’t have that color variation between sap and heartwood.
Someone suggested crabapple which I’ve never turned, most of my apple comes from the local orchard.

Looking at the pores in the end grain cannot prove it is a type of apple, but if the wood is discovered to be ring porous it will prove without a doubt if it is not.

If there is anyone reading who doesn't know ring porous from an engagement ring and diffuse porous from a diffuse population this is a good place to start:

https://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/hardwood-anatomy/

JKJ

[Karl Loeblein]

I'm guessing Magnolia at least until better end grain shots get posted.

[Ricc Havens]

John, Here's the best I could do. I soaked wood as you recommended and shaved some slivers with a new razor blade. Photos are 10X with my Iphone.

Karl, I don't think it's crabapple. I have never been given any of that. I did get some apple from an orchard but it was from a section of red and yellow delicious they were removing to make room for a field of lettuse. (They are converting some sections to fields of vegetables for a regional grocery warehouse. in the area)

JKJ, it doesn't look ring porous to me so it may be apple or some other wood. But it looks close to the photo of the aplle you posted.



Thanks
Ricc


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You don't need a high power loop or magnifier. 10x is more than enough.

Shaving the wood with a new single edged razor blade can be difficult but is MUCH easier if you first soak the sample in water for a while which will soften it. I often soak the pieces. I have to use a new razor blade on each sample so I buy them in packages of 100 - very cheap. You can also use a medical scalpel or a razor sharp bench chisel or carving chisel.

I usually cut end grain samples to inspect on the bandsaw, making them about 1/2" thick and maybe 1/2" x 3/4". I usually only slice clean a tiny spot, enough to expose a ring or so. I don't get fanatical about it. Slicing is helpful since sawing and sanding tend to obscure the pores. For some ring porous woods, the very tiny pores in the late wood are distinctive identifiers, for example elm and oak are very easy to ID this way.

Besides the pores themselves, the presence of tyloses plugging the pores will help narrow down a sample even more.

If interested in Wood ID, one of the best resources is the book Identifying Wood by R. Bruce Hoadley, available on Amazon. I've used mine so much all the pages are falling out.

JKJ