New Table Saw or Jointer?

[John McKissick]

I have a roughly 10 year old Bosch jobsite table saw which is a great tool for what it is but it aint a shop saw being quite limited for size and I find i have to find creative ways to deal with larger panels using multiple tools amd cuts to get a finished part where a full sized table saw would save a lot of steps and time. I also have a Kreg Adaptive cutting system which works pretty good put kind of a PITA to set up for just a cut or two. My shop is small and mulit-use so everything has to be portable.

I have been making stuff so far mostly from 3/4 plywood including some rolling shop stands with drawers for planer and sander (yes, plywood drawer fronts). Similar to cabinets in construction and precision. I would like to get into using more boards and joinery techniqes. I do pocket holes and bisquit joints but not any dovetails yet (maybe someday).

So all that being said I get by with the small saw I have but "Would I have better use of a propper table saw or a jointer?".
I have never used a jointer but I can see how it could be useful. By propper table saw I mean somelike a Jet 10" cast wings 30" 115V or the comprable Powermatic

Thanks for your opinions and comments

[Bruce Lowekamp]

IMHO you can do a lot more with S3S lumber and a better saw than you could with a jointer by itself. You need a planer to thickness the wood anyway. Get a decent saw. Will be good enough to cut panels, though you'll still need the jigs to cut down plywood.

Bruce

[Todd Mason-Darnell]

+1 on what Bruce said.

Your really need a jointer and planer as a set. You can get by with a planer and table + a bunch of sleds, but it it is major PIA.

Get the nicer table saw. It will immediately improve your experience

[John McKissick]

IMHO you can do a lot more with S3S lumber and a better saw than you could with a jointer by itself. You need a planer to thickness the wood anyway. Get a decent saw. Will be good enough to cut panels, though you'll still need the jigs to cut down plywood.

Bruce

I have a Dewalt lunchbox thickness planer
I also made a crosscut sled big enough to crosscut nearly 20" on the small "job site" saw

Thanks for your input

[Joe Hollis]

I agree with the other suggestions to replace your table saw before buying a jointer. That said, I have a full-size table saw, and have shifted to a track saw for almost all panel cutting I do. Manipulating large panels onto my full-size saw isn't any easier than moving them onto a portable job site table saw. I don't have a lot of room either, so a shop made multi-function table serves as both an outfeed table for my table saw and cutting table for my track saw. I had a small Ridgid jointer for a while before I got a planer. The jointer didn't see much use at all until I got the planer.

Good luck with your decision.

Joe H.

[Andrew Hughes]

I vote for Jointer.
Mostly because I like jointers more then a tablesaws.
I use my bandsaw more then my table saw. But when I do I like to have the wood flat and square on two sides.
What is the stuff called plywood where does it grow.:confused::)

[Bruce Lowekamp]

I have a Dewalt lunchbox thickness planer
I also made a crosscut sled big enough to crosscut nearly 20" on the small "job site" saw

Thanks for your input

Honestly, having a planer makes me think the answer is a bit more debatable. Having square lumber (even if it's been stored in my shop for a few years) is so important. And while a better TS, in addition to more rip and crosscut capacity, can use dado blades etc, most of that can be done via router jigs, etc.

If with your current saw you can reliably rip boards 5' long to precise widths, I would think more about a jointer. Especially if you can swing an 8" jointer: so much lumber is between 6 and 8 inches.

Bruce

[John McKissick]

I agree with the other suggestions to replace your table saw before buying a jointer. That said, I have a full-size table saw, and have shifted to a track saw for almost all panel cutting I do. Manipulating large panels onto my full-size saw isn't any easier than moving them onto a portable job site table saw. I don't have a lot of room either, so a shop made multi-function table serves as both an outfeed table for my table saw and cutting table for my track saw. I had a small Ridgid jointer for a while before I got a planer. The jointer didn't see much use at all until I got the planer.

Good luck with your decision.

Joe H.

If I get a cabinet or hybrid table saw I would do the same with outfeed being an assembly bench and track saw table too. I also have the Kreg Accu-cut

I was strongly leaning towards a table saw but I read so many threads here about jointers and get advice from others

[John McKissick]

Honestly, having a planer makes me think the answer is a bit more debatable. Having square lumber (even if it's been stored in my shop for a few years) is so important. And while a better TS, in addition to more rip and crosscut capacity, can use dado blades etc, most of that can be done via router jigs, etc.

If with your current saw you can reliably rip boards 5' long to precise widths, I would think more about a jointer. Especially if you can swing an 8" jointer: so much lumber is between 6 and 8 inches.

Bruce

I can use dado's in the small saw but frankly not a pleasant task. I might need to upgade my blades though, an older Craftsman set.

Thanks for the "food for thought"

[Justin Rapp]

If I get a cabinet or hybrid table saw I would do the same with outfeed being an assembly bench and track saw table too. I also have the Kreg Accu-cut

I was strongly leaning towards a table saw but I read so many threads here about jointers and get advice from others

Before you buy anything at all, it would help to really know where you plan to go with your builds. Also what type of lumber are you going to get. If you are sticking with plywood, having a jointer won't be very helpful to you. If buying S4S lumber from a big box hardware store, besides getting it flat again or maybe doing a edge to edge glue up, your are much better off with a table saw upgrade. However, if you are going to start getting rough cut lumber or even getting rough green lumber and drying it yourself, the jointer is an essential tool. There are some other cool things you can used a jointer for, such as putting a rabbit on a board and even make tapered legs, but you can do those things with a table saw as well, and maybe a bit safer.

So - let's assume you have decided to get a jointer, the question is, what size, and also blade type. Of course everyone says go 8" but if all your budget supports is 6", than expect to have some glue ups for wider boards if needed. Or if you only plan to build small projects, like keep-sake boxes, all you need is a 6". Also, with today's spiral cutters, there is really no reason to go for a straight blade model unless you want the frustrating task of reseting the blades each time they need sharpening. If you don't do it often, it can take a long time, even hours to get it perfect. I am sure there are those that have been setting blades for 30 or 40 years and do it often will say 'It is easy'. Well, it can be with a jig, but still frustrating.

So - I will hold off on my thoughts on what you should by until I hear what you plan to build and what kind of lumber you will be using.

[John McKissick]

Before you buy anything at all, it would help to really know where you plan to go with your builds. Also what type of lumber are you going to get. If you are sticking with plywood, having a jointer won't be very helpful to you. If buying S4S lumber from a big box hardware store, besides getting it flat again or maybe doing a edge to edge glue up, your are much better off with a table saw upgrade. However, if you are going to start getting rough cut lumber or even getting rough green lumber and drying it yourself, the jointer is an essential tool. There are some other cool things you can used a jointer for, such as putting a rabbit on a board and even make tapered legs, but you can do those things with a table saw as well, and maybe a bit safer.

So - let's assume you have decided to get a jointer, the question is, what size, and also blade type. Of course everyone says go 8" but if all your budget supports is 6", than expect to have some glue ups for wider boards if needed. Or if you only plan to build small projects, like keep-sake boxes, all you need is a 6". Also, with today's spiral cutters, there is really no reason to go for a straight blade model unless you want the frustrating task of reseting the blades each time they need sharpening. If you don't do it often, it can take a long time, even hours to get it perfect. I am sure there are those that have been setting blades for 30 or 40 years and do it often will say 'It is easy'. Well, it can be with a jig, but still frustrating.

So - I will hold off on my thoughts on what you should by until I hear what you plan to build and what kind of lumber you will be using.

I don't foresee using rough cut lumber. I think most projects would be cabinet sized or smaller. I see some cabinet/desk type of units in a utility room for craft projects etc. Maybe something cabinet sized but a little nicer in living/dining area for camera equipment storage.

I have seen videos of folks making a big sled to put a straight edge on ugly shaped wood (rough cut).

[Bruce Lowekamp]

I don't foresee using rough cut lumber. I think most projects would be cabinet sized or smaller. I see some cabinet/desk type of units in a utility room for craft projects etc. Maybe something cabinet sized but a little nicer in living/dining area for camera equipment storage.

I have seen videos of folks making a big sled to put a straight edge on ugly shaped wood (rough cut).

Plywood is great, and plywood carcasses are a great way to start (was my first few projects, and still the way I would build a lot of things). You'll probably still want straight wood for things like face frames and doors/drawer fronts once you move into living room furniture. And at that point being able to make sure it's perfectly straight is very helpful. But I agree until you are doing those projects, plywood is fine. (I have quite a few unedged plywood cabinets etc in my shop.) If you have a year's worth of projects in mind before you get to wanting wood face frames, by all means get the table saw.

Bruce

[Ron Selzer]

I started out with a very inexpensive table saw with a plastic/metal top, added a 4" used jointer with a washing machine motor. upgraded to a Delta Contractors saw and a 12"Wood Master planer/molder and a 6" Jet jointer. then a 60" SafteySpeedCut panel saw a couple years later . 25 years later got a SawStop ICS, now looking to go to a 12" jointer.
SAID all that so you know my background, I recommend a jointer no matter how small for your next piece. Don't have to face joint anything but I find it had not to edge joint even on plywood. You can make auxiliary tables to surround your small saw to make it easier to handle wide/long pieces.
If you plan on staying with plywood then consider a small panel saw such as the https://www.rockler.com/safety-speed-cut-panel-pro-2-panel-saw
Think long and hard on what to do and then like whatever you end up with. Use it until you get another chance to upgrade again.
good luck
Ron

[Mark Hockenberg]

John - Lots of good advise above. Joe makes a really good point about the track saw. I have a Unisaw and used to cut 4x8's and 5x5s on it. Now I use the track saw almost exclusively for this operation. I get straighter lines, great square cuts and less saw marks this way. I also use the track saw to put straight line rips on solid lumber. It's a game-changing tool.

Maybe you should consider a track saw, and keep the current table saw for smaller parts. I agree that if you add a jointer, you'll soon want a planer - These really work as a pair.

[Mark Daily]

Table saw, especially if you work mostly with plywood.

[John McKissick]

I started out with a very inexpensive table saw with a plastic/metal top, added a 4" used jointer with a washing machine motor. upgraded to a Delta Contractors saw and a 12"Wood Master planer/molder and a 6" Jet jointer. then a 60" SafteySpeedCut panel saw a couple years later . 25 years later got a SawStop ICS, now looking to go to a 12" jointer.
SAID all that so you know my background, I recommend a jointer no matter how small for your next piece. Don't have to face joint anything but I find it had not to edge joint even on plywood. You can make auxiliary tables to surround your small saw to make it easier to handle wide/long pieces.
If you plan on staying with plywood then consider a small panel saw such as the https://www.rockler.com/safety-speed-cut-panel-pro-2-panel-saw
Think long and hard on what to do and then like whatever you end up with. Use it until you get another chance to upgrade again.
good luck
Ron

That is a tool I haven't considered yet. That is definitely worth considering.
Thank you

[Von Bickley]

My shops have been built around a decent table saw.

[Justin Rapp]

I don't foresee using rough cut lumber. I think most projects would be cabinet sized or smaller. I see some cabinet/desk type of units in a utility room for craft projects etc. Maybe something cabinet sized but a little nicer in living/dining area for camera equipment storage.

I have seen videos of folks making a big sled to put a straight edge on ugly shaped wood (rough cut).

Rough Cut isn't just the edge grain. Rouch Cut lumber isn't always flat, and it almost never if after it dries. Using a jointer to flatten the face of wood is the first step in the S4S process of wood. To get the edge straight on a table saw using a sled, the face of the board, at least one side must be flat, and you can't get this without either hand plan or jointer. Of course buying already flatten wood is the other way! :)

[jack duren]

A tablesaw. I dont have a jointer and I sleep just fine without it after 36 years.....

[Tony Shea]

I don't have a jointer and miss it every day. I have a Ridgid hybrid table that is over 12 years old and I still would rather have a 12" jointer than I would a new table saw. My primary way of working is with hand tools and have learned to flatten all my wood using hand planes. Often times I just end up getting lumber to thickness with hand planes if I don't want to break out the planer. I currently am saving up for a jointer/planer combo that is 12" at minimum and prefer to get a 16". I would use this tools more than any other power tool in my shop. Most of my work is done in solid lumber and not sheet goods.

[scott vroom]

Without question, the table saw is the most important tool in my shop.

I owned a Bosch job site saw specifically for job site work. It's limited in its ability, too small to breakdown sheet goods, and lacking safety features of a decent cabinet saw (most notably a riving knife). My local hardwood supplier carries a decent stock of s4s common domestic hardwoods at a considerably lower cost than big box surfaced lumber. As long as you are able to purchase surfaced lumber, I would prioritize a good cabinet saw over a jointer and planer.

[Andy D Jones]

Rough Cut isn't just the edge grain. Rouch Cut lumber isn't always flat, and it almost never if after it dries. Using a jointer to flatten the face of wood is the first step in the S4S process of wood. To get the edge straight on a table saw using a sled, the face of the board, at least one side must be flat, and you can't get this without either hand plan or jointer. Of course buying already flatten wood is the other way! :)

For flattening the face of a board, a jointer is certainly easiest, but a planer sled can also let your planer do it, with a bit more setup.

I would go with a hybrid or cabinet table saw first, with a good fence.

-- Andy - Arlington TX

[Jim Dwight]

John,

I have a SawStop PCS and a DeWalt track saw. For the first 30 years or so I made sawdust I used a table saw roughly equivalent to your jobsite saw. The last one was a Ryobi BT3100. I built a lot of furniture with the prior saws and have built a few things on the PCS. It is definitely nicer to use a big cabinet saw but, especially with a track saw available, it doesn't limit what you can make to have a smaller somewhat less capable saw. My shop is 14x24 so I do not really have the space for a 59 inch rip table saw but the track saw is easier to use on big pieces anyway. I have a work table which is also the table saw outfeed table that is 3x7 feet. I keep a piece of 1 inch foam board behind it against the lumber rack and when I want to use the track saw I put the foam on the accessory table. That's a lot quicker and easier than setting up a fold down table. One reason I don't use a table like you have for your Kreg is it wouldn't the the right height. I built a mobile base for my PCS to get it up to 38 inches tall and that is not a standard height for work tables.

I also have an old INCA jointer that can plane boards 8 5/8 wide. The beds on it are only about 36 inches long, however, and I have difficulty getting a straight edge on a long board with it. So I use the track saw. I have a 106 inch rail which has been long enough, so far. I plan a 10 foot dining table, however, for this year which will require joining my long rail with one of my shorter ones. Hopefully I can keep the joint straight.

Jointers can be a bit of an issue. A 6 inch is pretty narrow to use on the face of many boards. A 8 inch or bigger takes up a lot of space. The other issue I have with mine is if I joint the face of a board, I often do not get the thickness I need out of it. Better technique would help, undoubtedly, but I often just skip this step and use the planner (mine is an old Ryobi AP-10). That doesn't give me a really flat board but when I glue it to other boards and put it into the project, it will flatten out. If I am making a door, however, I need to get the stock really flat but the frame of a door is pretty narrow and thus not as much of an issue on the jointer.

If you cannot tell already, I think your next step should be a piece of foam board and a work table, if you do not have one already. You can also build your smaller saw into a mobile workstation with drawers and a larger top to make it more useful, that is what I did with the BT3100. The kreg table can be set up only when you really need it. Or possibly it could be your work table if you get the table saw the right height.

[Luis G Rodriguez]

Well, there is a lot of good advice here. But as many had already said, it sounds like what you need is a track saw and a 4' by 8' rigid insulation foam board. Cutting panels with the table saw is not really a good idea.


Also, some of the contributors have said that they don't need a jointer!?! unless you buy exclusively all sides planed lumber (where? and how much?). I can't believe that you would not need a jointer. Have you ever made a small box without properly squared pieces?

[Jim Becker]

Luis, welcome to SMC! And thanks for being a Contributor right from the start.

While I'm very much on the bandwagon around the need for a jointer...and for me that also means wide...there are many folks who find S4S acceptable for what they do or are fine using a sled and shims to flatten a board before thicknessing and other methods to edge joint. Everyone's workflow is different. Everyone's needs are subjective. A thicknesser can provide more general utility to many woodworkers over a jointer if they can only have one and a jointer is kinda the odd tool out without a thickness planer when it comes to power tools.

[Justin Rapp]

Well, there is a lot of good advice here. But as many had already said, it sounds like what you need is a track saw and a 4' by 8' rigid insulation foam board. Cutting panels with the table saw is not really a good idea.


Also, some of the contributors have said that they don't need a jointer!?! unless you buy exclusively all sides planed lumber (where? and how much?). I can't believe that you would not need a jointer. Have you ever made a small box without properly squared pieces?

Hi Luis,

Welcome to the forum. BTW - check the dates on the last post in the thread. Like this one, the last post was over 1 1/2 years back. Being new, you might find tons and tons of good information, but if it's an old thread, the op's question is usually answered and he/she has taken action already.

Again, welcome to the forum and glad to have you hear!

[Bill Space]

I have a 5 HP cabinet saw now, used to have a Craftsman contractors saw.

I have an 8 inch jointer, and a 15 inch planer. Bandsaws...radial arm saws...Shopsmiths...and other stuff.

If I were to lose everything, and have to start over, my first purchase would be a nice cabinet saw, or even a slider maybe.

Damm...I just realized I got sucked into reply to an old thread...oh well...