Lowes does good thing

[Tom Bender]

Just replaced my water heater, 40 gallon gas. Since I rarely do plumbing I read the instructions. These were apparently written by A.O.Smith and improved by Lowes. The result is a good set of installation instructions with suggestions for accessory parts available at Lowes. They were written in clear, accurate English and applied to the heater I bought. They did not try to cover all models and did include helpful tips. Ex: 'shut off the old heater and run some water thru it'. This saved me from carrying many buckets of scalding water thru my house. I guess if you need instructions in another language you can ask for them, but the excess paper was not wasted. Also, codes and standards have changed. The instructions covered ventilation and air supply, etc. New methods and materials are now available. Good reasons to read the instructions.

[Mark Bolton]

I think this is becoming more and more common due to the DIY deal. The manufacturers simply cant afford the cost burden of all the people who simply give up and return items to the store that have nothing wrong with them due to their own inability or poorly written instructions. The crazy part about the whole thing is in many areas of the country it is illegal for the homeowner to install their own water heater yet they are sold by the tractor and trailer load.

Years and years ago everyone started seeing the big piece of paper with "do not return this item to the store before calling 1-800-xxx-xxxx" so they can walk you through your problems as opposed to receiving a perfectly good item returned that will go in the scrap heap.

How in the world the industry affords it (the call center, the instructions, and the returns) is beyond me but your right, nothing beats a good set of clear instructions. The old foagies who mock instructions and toss them in the trash deserve their misery. Things are changing so fast now even faucets require an instruction scan for someone who installs them daily.

[Erik Loza]

That I am seeing more and more in the trades is not so much manuals but little Youtube video clips of the install process in CGI animated form. There was some shower fixture I was looking and it had a youtube link to this animated video. Super clear, easy to understand, no language required. It would pause periodically to show a torque spec or that type of thing. Super easy to have the phone handy as you're doing the install.

Erik

[Jim Koepke]

The crazy part about the whole thing is in many areas of the country it is illegal for the homeowner to install their own water heater yet they are sold by the tractor and trailer load.

For many home repairs, such as water heater replacement, a permit is required. This supposedly saves folks from 'fly by night' service providers.

Another 'illegal activity' that gets me is hydraulic shock absorbers, to make bouncy cars, are illegal in many states. It is not illegal for vendors to sell them in those states.

That is a failure of the lawmakers.

jtk

[Mark Bolton]

For many home repairs, such as water heater replacement, a permit is required. This supposedly saves folks from 'fly by night' service providers.

Another 'illegal activity' that gets me is hydraulic shock absorbers, to make bouncy cars, are illegal in many states. It is not illegal for vendors to sell them in those states.

That is a failure of the lawmakers.

jtk

The real reason for water heaters and plumbing in many areas to be illegal for the homeowner, as it pertains to a water heater, is because they are a bomb and you can not only kill yourself, but others. Same logic is the reasoning for plumbing being heavily restricted. The logic is you have the potential to contaminate the public water supply. There are threads here that beat this to death, but thats the reason. It has nothing to do with shoddy fly by night tradesman (or non). That happens even with licensed and permitted work.

Way back in the 80's and before when I apprenticed in the trade it was heavily argued when home centers came on line and started selling water heaters, toilets, and so on. The trade and inspectors carried on about it endlessly and it wasnt only to protect their incomes, it was because it defied every rule they had been taught can gone through apprenticeship, journeyman, and master, exams to get to where they were. But the all mighty buck prevails.

[Brian Elfert]

Years and years ago everyone started seeing the big piece of paper with "do not return this item to the store before calling 1-800-xxx-xxxx" so they can walk you through your problems as opposed to receiving a perfectly good item returned that will go in the scrap heap.


I think part of it is they can send you a replacement part if one is broken or missing for less money than it would cost to get a return back from the retailer. Me, if a part is missing or broken I almost always take it back to the store instead of waiting a week for a part for a brand new item.

[Doug Dawson]

How in the world the industry affords it (the call center, the instructions, and the returns) is beyond me but your right, nothing beats a good set of clear instructions. The old foagies who mock instructions and toss them in the trash deserve their misery. Things are changing so fast now even faucets require an instruction scan for someone who installs them daily.

It costs next to nothing to write a decent set of instructions for a product. It represents basic competence on the part of the manufacturer. Do they even understand their own product.

[Mark Bolton]

I think part of it is they can send you a replacement part if one is broken or missing for less money than it would cost to get a return back from the retailer. Me, if a part is missing or broken I almost always take it back to the store instead of waiting a week for a part for a brand new item.

I dont disagree that thats also a benefit. My point is that the entire process is there to mitigate returns. I know several people on the supply side of the big box world and the returns due to the years of these places "zero question return policy" are a burden they are always desperate to reduce. While Im sure it happens I can honestly say in 30 years of construction I have never opened much of anything I can remember that had lost, missing, broken, mis-packed, parts. But maybe Ive been lucky. The vast majority of returns are merely because someone changed their mind, found something different, fouled up the assembly themselves, etc.. These products are tested and re-tested extensively before the sale.

[Mark Bolton]

It costs next to nothing to write a decent set of instructions for a product. It represents basic competence on the part of the manufacturer. Do they even understand their own product.

I dont disagree. But in the age of trying to wring $0.001 out of the thickness of the ink printed on the box to be profitable, forget about shipping the entire process overseas, it definitely missed the mark over the years for sure. That said, I have honestly never purchased anything, other than import shop tools, that came with a set of instructions I couldnt ultimately decipher. I would argue that the term "decent" is a pretty subjective term and makes me wonder if youve ever tried to do such a thing? I have had many occasion to be asked to, or ask someone else to, come up with something like a shelf organizational system for a large number of parts. 10 people will come up with 20 different "systems" to organize he identical 150 sku's and they will all argue that their system is the simpler one and is more logical than the others and you just run it right on down the line. The other nine cant figure out the one persons system to save their life. Move to he next and the nine confused faces just shift.

You can write a set of instructions that you think is right as rain and I will almost guarantee you 30% of the people you hand it to will not understand it, find it confusing, over complicated, too simple and lacking critical detail they feel they need, poorly written, poorly laid out, on and on.

Its a job I sure dont envy and on a complex item I highly doubt the cost is next to nothing. Be interesting to ask a company like Delta or Moen how many faucets they go through writting a set of instructions, locking a half dozen people in a room with some tools, and seeing how many successful installs, get feedback, re-write, wash rinse repeat.

[Jim Koepke]

It costs next to nothing to write a decent set of instructions for a product. It represents basic competence on the part of the manufacturer. Do they even understand their own product.

To do it well requires a writer trained to do such a task. In a technical writing class one of our assignments was to write a page of instructions for a device or a piece of equipment. The instructor looked at me skeptically when my instructions for a film extractor were handed to him along with a 35mm film canister and the device. He was surprised when he was able to extract the end of the roll that had been wound into the canister. He gave me an A on that one.

jtk

[Doug Dawson]

To do it well requires a writer trained to do such a task. In a technical writing class one of our assignments was to write a page of instructions for a device or a piece of equipment. The instructor looked at me skeptically when my instructions for a film extractor were handed to him along with a 35mm film canister and the device. He was surprised when he was able to extract the end of the roll that had been wound into the canister. He gave me an A on that one.


I'm not aware of well trained technical writers being in short supply. You just have to pay them. ;^)

[Jim Koepke]

I'm not aware of well trained technical writers being in short supply. You just have to pay them. ;^)

Many corporations do not want to pay what it costs to keep a technical writer on staff. Often reading instructions it becomes clear they were writen by someone who is unfamiliar with the product and didn't write it in English. Often there are many things lost in the translation.

Writing up and documenting a few procedures at work consumed a lot of time to get it clear without any ambiguity.

Of course this didn't keep me from inserting some interesting illustrations:

427581

This illustrates a method for setting the proper gap between two halves of an assembly. Many of my co-workers commented on my hands.

jtk

[lowell holmes]

When our water heater died after the Dickinson Texas flood, it was replaced by a tankless heater.
We never run out of hot water now. The central heat moved to the attic at the same time.

[Malcolm McLeod]

...

427581

This illustrates a method for setting the proper gap between two halves of an assembly. Many of my co-workers commented on my hands.

jtk
I will assume the wife dances in steel toed boots. 2 such hands would imply 2 such feet, and ... well, you know.;)

[Jim Koepke]

I will assume the wife dances in steel toed boots. 2 such hands would imply 2 such feet, and ... well, you know.;)

My wife hasn't danced with in our near 40 years of marriage.

Actually, the camera was being held in my right hand. A co-worker was enlisted to help. He started to use his right hand to hold the Allen key. At my suggestion he chuckled and used his left hand.

jtk

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

Strange that this thread mentions a DIY movement. When I bought this farm in 1991, there was a little country hardware store just 4 miles north. Open from 8 am to 7 pm seven days a week. They also had a small area with bread, milk, sodas, TP, sold newspapers and a freezer with ice cream and popsicles. In the summer, there would always be a crowd of kids nearby and on Sundays, there would be lines of people for the Sunday paper and ice cream, etc. A big part of their business was doing tune ups on kerosene heaters. (Adjust, clean, new wick, etc,) They also sharpened chains for saws. They had a good little business, but it was run by a couple and their son. Well the years of constant "B" schedule (Be there) took there toll and the people grew too old and infirm to keep up with the store so it was sold. Another couple bought the place. With in 2 months they started closing on Sundays. Folks could no longer stop for the sunday paper, or take the kids there for ice cream or sodas on Sundays, which had been a big thing. I took a kerosene heater there to be cleaned and a new wick and they said they didn't do that anymore. Business started dropping off and soon, I saw higher prices and empty bins. They started closing on Saturdays at noon. About six months after the place changed hands, I went for some pipe fittings and found the husband was sitting at the register and working on a jig saw puzzle. Stuff had been moved around and I couldn't find what I needed. I asked and the guy answered that they were out. He went on a rant about how the business went to crap because every thing is throw away and no one fixes things anymore. I actually stumbled upon what I had asked about as I continued looking. They had placed all 1/2 plumbing and pipe fittings together in one bin, whether copper or steel, to be soldered, or threaded.for gas or for water.
The place was closed a few weeks later. I ran into the original owner's son eventually and told him I really appreciated the way his parents and he ran the store. I didn't really know how valuable that store was until after it changed hands and closed. Even his mother knew her stuff and how to do many repairs and her advice enabled me to fix many things. The people running the store were as important as the merchandise they sold because the knowledge to repair was freely given.

To their credit, our local Lowes has had free DIY classes for quite a few years. How to install dry wall, insulation, simple flooring, and several other things. They no longer do "how to change a light switch", or fix a leaky pipe. To some extent the new owner with the jig saw puzzle was right. Few people bother repairing a lamp, and some will make no attempt whatever at repairing a leaky pipe. Telephones fix pipes and electrical problems, by calling someone.

[Mark Bolton]

The place was closed a few weeks later.

Very similar scenario here. No equipment service but a small local store, same deal, odds and ends, hardware, food, community gathering place, free coffee for the regulars often times. Lot of overpriced stuff which was understandable as they were pretty much buying retail and adding a small markup for the "convenience" of not having to drive 20-40 miles to town for a fitting or a loaf of bread. Place was pretty much the hub of the community. Older people would go in and get help paying their bills or settling an issue with the utilities, hunting and fishing licenses and game check, on and on.

Got to be too much as the couple aged and went up for sale. Sold to a couple from "the big city" (NY State) who decided it was their "calling" to bring the luxuries, food, and civilized culture, to little ol' rural USA and "show us the light" (meanwhile many of us here are transplants who have already seen the light and didnt like how it hurt our eyes so we left). Needless to say, they terminated the free coffee, pretty much treated the daily local crowd who had been going there for 50 years as loiterers and ran them off, big parking lot and people would carpool and leave a car way off on the side for the days work, no longer allowed, no parking allowed unless your in the store. Post office next door so people would park, run into the post office, then over to the store for some odds and ends, new owners would run out and scold locals walking to the post office from their parking lot (so now the local says piss on you I wont come buy my few groceries after the P.O.). Hardware went out the window, food changed to their "civilized" food and no more brown beans and rice, cornbread, etc.. The list went on and on.

Needless to say they bled a very slow death from a thousand self inflicted cuts. Finally liquidated it all, sold to another local but the damage had been done and its now on a slow recovery.

The watch what you wish for is real. No different than a town wishing for development and then people pyne for the old days because the traffic is so bad and the taxes are so high.

[Wade Lippman]

Lowes donated almost all the materials for my son's Eagle project 19 years ago. They didn't have enough 2x10s, but offered to cut some 2x12s down. I thought that was going too far and found someone else for the rest.

Not particularly relevant to the thread, but a good thing that Lowes did.