Cheap source for epoxy resin and vinyl bags

[Stark Suggs]

Turning some spalted maple and would like to use epoxy resin to stabilize the wood. Anyone got any sources they use that are just downright cheap? Max amount Im looking for is a 1 gal (total) kit...Ive seen the price on that kit at roughly $70. Something tells me that it can be found at a better price elsewhere. Additionally, where might I find vinyl bags? Thanks


SWS

[richard shelby]

Search for "bar top" epoxy on Amazon.

[Dave Fritz]

Doesn't stabilize involve soaking into the wood and changing the structure of the wood so it's stronger? I think top coat epoxy is just a surface coat with a little soaking in. Maybe I'm all wet and look forward to clarification. Thanks.

[allen thunem]

a google search will give you numerous sources. whether it be the resin or epoxy glues

[Stark Suggs]

Dave, when mixing the resin and hardener you are supposed to add acetone which thins it out...no too much tho. I dont have a specific link, but it is a technique found on smc. Upon thinning, the roughed turned spalted bowl is placed into the nylon bag, sealed, and allowed to soak in. Its shaken from time to time...maybe a day or longer, depending on how punky the wood is. Once the adequate (a little guesswork) amount has been absorbed, its allowed to dry and finish turning.

[Peter Blair]

HI Stark what prevents it from setting up into a lump in the bag? Depending on how punky the wood is I generally turn to within a 1/2" of final thickness then apply a liberal amount of Minwax Wood hardener, would that work for you?

[Stark Suggs]

Pete, thats a good question....presumably, the acetone plays a role in this. https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?260510-Stabilizing-a-started-project&highlight=epoxy+nylon about half way down you'll see the gentleman's post

....."Try mixing epoxy or polyester resin and diluting it with acetone as above. Throw your bowl and mix into a black vinyl--repeat vinyl bag. It will stay liquid for hours--play shake and bake several times and wait overnite. It will not change the wood character or color--the soft stuff only will absorb the resin mix. Done it many times on very soft punky wood. Cheap and fast."

...Im familiar with the minwax hardener., good stuff...got a few extra pieces of spalted/punky maple to turn, so the cost of using it would be too much.

[Wes Mitchell]

In the videos I've seen of people stabilizing wood, they almost all used Cactus Juice in a vacuum chamber. This is different from the thicker set resins that go into a pressure pot.

[ChrisA Edwards]

Learnt something new today. On the epoxy approach, thinning with acetone, is this an epoxy that will harden over time without a hardening agent or heat?

On the Cactus Juice, can you get away without the heat process or is there an alternate method of curing this. Not sure the wife will be happy with me putting my project in the JennAir.

[Peter Blair]

Ok, sounds good but you suggest nylon bags and he indicated vinyl?
Good luck

[Richard Coers]

How does shaking the bag help? The epoxy isn't going to be down to water viscosity is it? Since you are going to re-turn it, why not mix a small batch of epoxy, paint about a 1/4 of the bowl, let thicken, rotate and repeat. I'm skeptical it's going to go very deep. Early in my pen turning, there was no stabilizing resin. Folks were melting plexiglas in acetone and using that to stabilize wood. I would have a hard time spending $70 on any piece of wood. That's a hell of an investment for me to see something on a shelf. If I tried to sell it, no way to recoup that kind of material cost around here.

[Stark Suggs]

Chris, my understanding is that this is an A+B mix (resin + hardener) this is referred to as "bar-top" that R. Shelby mentioned. all I know is that the link above is one of several instances on smc where this has been done. Pete, regarding the bag, that's clearly my mistake....My apology. It has been edited (title did not allow, only text).

[Olaf Vogel]

Turning some spalted maple and would like to use epoxy resin to stabilize the wood.


SWS


I do this a lot, on punky, or spalted wood.
The epoxy can also be thinned with rubbing alcohol. A LOT let stinky, so you can use it inside.

Thin the epoxy about 30% for the first coat.
Paint the mixture on with a brush.
This thin, it will soak far into the wood.

Some sections will soak up a huge ammount. Occasionally just take a mixing cup and pour it in.
Wait for it to harden = and you may need to re-turn the piece.

Once it stops soaking up epoxy, the piece is totally stable.
The epoxy sands well.

So then your choice of finish.
Varnish works well, stinky.

More epoxy can create a great, shinny coat. But its a lot of work to get it right.

[Brice Rogers]

I've used Min-wax hardener (solvent based) with mixed results. Once, I drenched a hollow form bowl (Spalted gum amber that was a little punky) with the hardener and after perhaps a minute I started hearing cracking and could see cracks developing. Yikes !!After things stabilized, I had a couple of 1/8" or bigger cracks. I don't know if it was caused by displacing or diluting the water moisture in the wood or ??? I covered the tray and hollowform with aluminum foil and when I returned a day later, most of the gaps closed. I eventually filled them and completed the work. So, the hardener works but it may also include a surprise or two.

Regarding adding acetone to epoxy, yes - - it will thin out the epoxy to whatever consistency you want. But it will also significantly extend the cure time I used thinned epoxy on a punky piece and the water consistency epoxy took several days to cure. I waited a week to turn...

[Olaf Vogel]

I've used Min-wax hardener (solvent based) with mixed results. Once, I drenched a hollow form bowl (Spalted gum amber that was a little punky) with the hardener and after perhaps a minute I started hearing cracking and could see cracks developing. Yikes !!After things stabilized, I had a couple of 1/8" or bigger cracks. I don't know if it was caused by displacing or diluting the water moisture in the wood or ??? I covered the tray and hollowform with aluminum foil and when I returned a day later, most of the gaps closed. I eventually filled them and completed the work. So, the hardener works but it may also include a surprise or two.

Regarding adding acetone to epoxy, yes - - it will thin out the epoxy to whatever consistency you want. But it will also significantly extend the cure time I used thinned epoxy on a punky piece and the water consistency epoxy took several days to cure. I waited a week to turn...


IMO the Minwax Hardener is ok for small parts that are very punky. But it takes a lot of Minwax and the stuff is expensive.

As for epoxy cure time, its mostly dependant on:
1 - getting the resin / hardener mixture right (follow instructions and measure carefully)
2 - stir, stir, stir, stir, stir, stir, stir and more. if the components dont mix well, then it won't harden. (hardener doesnt come into contact with the resin)
3 - temperature. Ideally warm room temps or higher. At 20 C, your cure time is much longer. At 15 C it takes a week or more.

Any of these will radically change your cure time. And hence the amount of dust and other crap in the air which will stick to your work.
Thinning with alcohol or acetone stuff doesn't change the cure time at all (as long as #1 to 3 are correct)

[Stark Suggs]

Great info. Denatured alcohol, DNA presumably. Certainly cheaper that acetone. Olaf, Brice, where did you two get your epoxy resin, a+b mix? cost? the best I could find on amazon was approx $63 for a 1 gallon kit, 1/2 gal each, a and b. As well, what about the vinyl bags? Where in the world do you find those? All of this is very helpful!! Thank you

SWS

[Mike Nathal]

I am pretty sure that black trash bags (like Hefty) are vinyl.

[Olaf Vogel]

Epoxy prices are interesting and vary a lot depending on many factors.

So, EXCLUDING exotic stuff (high temp, aero space, special applications etc)

You likely won't get much cheaper than Amazon. I'm fairly convinced that a lot of offerings are rebranded. There is not a lot of price variation at the low end.

Factors to consider:

ArtResin is supposed to have the lowest VOC, so best for indoor use, food safe (consider the factors I mentioned above).
Has UV guard so won't yellow, is VERY clear (no tint). But is soft and can scratch. Excellent for major gap filling.
Slow cure time (~ 8 hrs)

KrystalClear is much harder/sratch resistant, a bit cheaper, high VOC's, slightly yellow.

West Systems has a broad product line, excellent, but MUCH more expensive.
Most of their products are overkill for woodturning (IMO), except...if you are gluing peices together - where strength is required.
They have excellent product guides (which encourage you to buy their stuff), but that gets into details which again, are overkill.

All epoxy seems to sand well. But you likely want a mask and good DC for that. I do it outside on a windy day. :)

Buy in gallons and price / unit goes way down.
The stuff does have a shelf life of about a year. So calculate your consumption to minimize waste.

Industrial garbage bags are good, epoxy peals right off. Same for plastic drop sheets

My wife is a professional artist, coats much of her work in epoxy, so goes through 10+ gallons per year.
(Picture pouring epoxy over a 4 x 8 foot painting you have spent 3 months on....nerve racking.)
https://www.arwynn.com/

I've also started doing river tables, so can use a few gallons per table. :)

We are looking for a supplier to get 5 G pails and hence a lower cost base.

Hope that helps

[Stark Suggs]

Olaf, ended up getting the epoxy mfg and/or sold by these folks https://eastcoastresin.com/ . Looks like decent epoxy. Thanks for your input.

SWS