Linux help needed

[Rich Engelhardt]

I'm taking the plunge!
After ten years away from IT - I'm jumping off the Windows ship.
Well - sort of.

My 4 year old Dell laptop died (on board hard drive controller) so I replaced it with a cheap HP.

Problem #1 - the HP only has 4 GB of RAM.
That's nowhere near enough.
HP makes you jump through fire in order to add RAM to their notebooks - so - I figured it's the right time for Linux.
Ubuntu seems to be the best place to start - so - I plan to download it.

I might just run it from a USB stick - or - I'm thinking I may use my old laptop - with 16 GB of RAM - and install it onto a USB drive & boot the old system to that.

So question #1 is:
Is Ubuntu the best place to start? My Unix is extremely rusty - extremely. (LOL! How does one exit Vi? I clearly can't recall! )

#2 - can I run Linux from a USB stick? (99.9% sure I can)

#3 - supposing I can run it from a memory stick - can I install VNC server on the Ubuntu and VNC client on my laptop and remote into the Linux and run it that way?

I know I can find the answers on the net - but - it's nice to illicit help from someone so they can sort of guide me through any snags I encounter.

[Robert LaPlaca]

Rich, :qq exit no save, :wq exit save, :w save no exit VI

[David Bassett]

I'm a user, not a developer or admin, of Linux. (My background is computer hardware, so probably know more SW than the average guy off the street but only by osmosis, and have (almost) always used a flavor of Unix. So Linux was the natural choice for me.)



...

So question #1 is:
Is Ubuntu the best place to start? My Unix is extremely rusty - extremely. (LOL! How does one exit Vi? I clearly can't recall! )

#2 - can I run Linux from a USB stick? (99.9% sure I can)

#3 - supposing I can run it from a memory stick - can I install VNC server on the Ubuntu and VNC client on my laptop and remote into the Linux and run it that way?

I know I can find the answers on the net - but - it's nice to illicit help from someone so they can sort of guide me through any snags I encounter.

I think Ubuntu is the most consumer friendly distribution. I'm old school wanting stable and light weight, so I use the long-term-support Xubuntu variant. Ubuntu will give you more bells & whistles and will generally be prettier, but it requires more resources. Xubuntu is designed to run on last generation HW. (Lubuntu seems like it is the light weight solution of the future, but it wasn't really ready when I tried it a couple years ago and I haven't checked since then. I did mention I don't like change?)

Yes. I've done it, but so long ago I don't remember the details. As I recall making the USB stick bootable was the challenge. It requires a flag the tools I had then didn't like to set. Tools change, get better, and following the current directions should get you through the process.

You can run VNC and remote Linux. I don't remember the details. (VNC to Linux systems, and TurboTax, are truly the only things I've ever used Windows for.) There are better easier ways to remote between Linux boxes though.

[mike stenson]

Funny, I generally prefer VNC to connect remotely to *nix boxes. Mostly because it's platform agnostic and generally pretty easy to set up. I'm a Unix dev, although I spend a lot of time on redhat these days, I know many people who prefer Ubuntu. You know how it goes, ask five Unix users how to do something, you'll get 25 answers.

You can run Ubuntu off of USB, I'm certain, however at 4GB you're going to start to have UX challenges, I believe.

[David Bassett]

OK, Mike's response on memory made me curious about what I have. (I honestly didn't remember, computer is 2-1/2 years old and I'm a computer user, not admin.) Well... I may not be the be the best reference point. I'm running the "light-weight" OS version and have 32GB RAM. (No, I'm sure I don't need that much. But why fret over "how much is enough"?)

Since you just bought a computer, probably not for you. But for anyone else considering a switch to Linux, this last one I got preconfigured with Linux preinstalled from ZaReason. It was truly painless and, while I didn't get a Black Friday loss-leader price, I honestly don't think I paid much of a premium after you consider the various upgrades I ended up making to previous notebook computers I've owned. (BTW- you can probably upgrade your 4GB of RAM pretty easily. I've come across very few very very low-end machines that don't use SODIMM for memory.)

[Alan Rutherford]

There are literally 100's of "distributions" of Linux and most can be used with any of several desktops. I've been using Linux nearly 20 years and almost exclusively over 10, and I know a lot about maybe .1% of what's out there. See https://distrowatch.com/ for what's currently popular. Ubuntu is a perennial favorite. Many other distros are based on Ubuntu and some might be easier to get into. My wife and I both use OpenSuse with KDE desktop and I'm very happy wiith it. My wife's PC is a 10-year-old Gateway with about 5 gb and it's comfortable. I have Lubuntu (a distribution of Ubuntu with the Ldxe desktop) on an older laptop. I installed Zorin on an old laptop for a friend about 2 years ago and he's happy with it. It wasn't my choice - somebody in a computer store liked it. Puppy (about 4 different flavors) is lighter-weight and in a class by itself, especially with limited hardware. I keep a few versions on a flash drive on my keychain and can run it on almost anything.

FWIW, I'm a techie from way back but have no interest in using the command line or messing with the internals of the operating system if I can avoid it. Been there, done that, think the mouse and GUI interface were the best things that ever happened to computers. Many Linux fans seem to like doing things the hard way but that's not my idea of a Windows alternative.

The biggest advantage to Ubuntu is popularity. Any questions you have can be answered online, but most questions are not specific to one distrubution and are as likely to involve the desktop as the Linux. I.e. a Ubuntu answer often applies no matter what you're using.

The one thing I find annoying in most systems that's handled better in OpenSuse is software installation and updates. OpenSuse has its own system management sofware (YAST - Yet Another Setup Tool) which is relatively easy to use. All the others I'm familiar with make it harder to search available software to see what you might want to install.

#1: Ubuntu is OK but look for one of the many distros that might suit your hardware and use.

#2: Yes and it's a great way to impress your friends. Other than that it's a PITA. Just install the Linux or set it up to dual-boot.

#3 See #2.

[mike stenson]

Many Linux fans seem to like doing things the hard way but that's not my idea of a Windows alternative.



Well put. Truth be told, I use a Mac (both at work and at home). It's simply fully application supported Unix, with a user friendly front end.

[Doug Dawson]

Well put. Truth be told, I use a Mac (both at work and at home). It's simply fully application supported Unix, with a user friendly front end.

That is true. I was a Un*x user/developer for the longest time, switched to Linux when it became "usable", various distributions over time, along with Mach etc, and I have to say that Mac OS really got it right, applying a decent front end to a quality core. The problem with Linux distributions that I've seen is that the front end ("user interface") is seriously _ugly_, designed by people who thought principles of user interface design didn't matter to them, and it usually shows.

The problem with Mac OS machines is that they're more expensive than they should be, and that after Steve Jobs died, there's nobody to kick peoples asses for writing crappy software and making poor design decisions. Not that this wasn't a problem before, but it's worse now. Still, some of the Linux app design decisions make me wanna gag, like bare lightbulbs hanging from the ceiling by a wire, or hiding the kill switch inside the spare tire, or painting the toilet purple with a brush, etc.

[glenn bradley]

I run Libuntu (https://lubuntu.net/) on an old laptop that was "made for Windows 98". Centrino Duo with 3 meg of RAM believe it or not. The lightweight Ubuntu was just what the doctor ordered. I ran it from a disc till I was satisfied. I now boot it directly. Regular updates, good error reporting. I run Firefox as a browser and some UX wireless drivers and so forth. It's been a few years now.

[Curt Harms]

The first thing IMO about linux distros is that the terminology is different and it works differently. There are a couple distros that may be more familiar to Windows users, both based on Ubuntu. Mint (https://linuxmint.com/) with the Cinnamon desktop may be fairly familiar to 'classic' (pre windows 8)Windows users. Zorin has already been mentioned. The default desktop on Ubuntu - Gnome - is not going to be familiar to Windows users. You start by creating a Live USB. Download your preferred .iso file and create the USB using something like Rufus (https://rufus.ie/) for Windows. I dual boot - have both Windows & one or more Linux distros on the same hard drive. I've had very good luck with dual boot until a Windows update comes along and overwrites GRUB (Grand Unified Bootloader), the Linux boot loader. I just had this happen. There's an easy fix, a specialized distro called boot-repair. Here are instructions (https://www.howtogeek.com/114884/how-to-repair-grub2-when-ubuntu-wont-boot/) on how to do it. You shouldn't need either the PPA or terminal commands.

Live USBs of various distros will give a general feel for a distro like Ubuntu. A live distro will also tell you whether your hardware, particularly WiFi will work. WiFi can be dead easy or a real PITA, it depends on which hardware vendor. One big thing it won't do is remember anything, which can be good or bad. Sometimes you can create a persistent Live USB which can remember things to a limited extent. When I've wanted to play with a distro without installing it on a hard drive I've created a USB flash drive that looks to the PC like another hard drive. That USB will function and behave as a 'real' install but without messing with the hard drive. The boot and response times will be longer because of USB instead of SATA and commonly available flash drives are just slower than hard drives. I wouldn't have too much confidence in the durability of a Flash install either.

One big caveat about creating a full install on a flash drive. You need to be familiar with drive designations in Linux land. If you get it wrong you may overwrite existing operating systems. For starters, there is no "C:" drive, that's a Microsoft thing. There'll be sda, sdb sdc etc. If there's a hard drive installed, that will probably be sda. If a machine's hard drive is easily accessible, I unplug the hard drive then plug both flash drives into the USB ports and start. That way I'm guaranteed to not do anything regrettable to my hard drive. Can't mess it up if it's not plugged in. I hope this is of some use.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Good info so far.

I did dabble in Unix about 20 years ago - so - not all of it is alien to me.

I'm also looking into running Chrome (the browser) on Linux. I sweat bullets every time I have to change computers because of all the passwords & all sorts of other stuff.
I was more than a little impressed that as soon as I installed Chrome on the new laptop & logged into my Google account, all my passwords, favorites and so on were downloaded to the new laptop!

[Tom Stenzel]

Hi Rich,

I'm running Linux Mint with the Mate desktop. It's been set to mimic the WinXP experience with a minimum of video effects. It's another member of the Ubunbu family, it does everything I need except run tax software.

Not much needs to be done with a command line. I haven't done it but if you're setting up a VNC server/client you will use an editor and type commands that look like they came out of a broken typewriter. Video resolution, IP table settings, probably port numbers. All that can be found on line.

If you don't like a lot of typing when you first install use a short password. You will type it a bunch of times setting the system up. Once things are settled change to whatever you need.

I never to got a Linux bootable thumbdrive working. I may have run into the same problems that Dave did. Installing by DVD was possible so that's what happened. Path of least resistance.

The story: I pulled a HP computer out the trash - CPU, monitor, speakers, keyboard, mouse, everything. With 1 gig of ram and lousy built in video the only distro that worked was Point linux. When I edited a photo Gimp would crash on opening. Turned out that I had pointed the system to a swap partition that I hadn't created. Embarrassing! That was the first of many system snafus, foul ups and mayhem. Still, the 1 gig of ram worked for everything except large photo editing when things ground to a halt.

I've now moved up to a Dell Optiplex with an Intel dual core something or another and 4 gig of ram. The company my wife works for was throwing it out, couldn't pass it up. I don't normally run a bunch of applications at the same time or open more than three tabs on a browser. I haven't done video editing so YMMV.

The Mint installation was unique in that it wiped out all my existing hard drive partitions and made the entire drive a single partition. I lost the swap partition and an FAT formatted partition without any notice. Didn't lose any data but that was unexpected. The previous Debian distros I used always asked before pulling a stunt like that.

Edit 1: I'd start a flame war about VIM and Emacs but no longer have my asbestos monitor wrap.

Edit 2: Rich- Welcome to the Dark Side!

Edit 3: Speaking of flame wars, remember on Star Trek when Captain Kirk would talk a computer into a shower of sparks and smoke? Wouldn't it be great if computers really did that? Although my homeowner's insurance might not agreeable with that.

-Tom

[Curt Harms]

Good info so far.

I did dabble in Unix about 20 years ago - so - not all of it is alien to me.

I'm also looking into running Chrome (the browser) on Linux. I sweat bullets every time I have to change computers because of all the passwords & all sorts of other stuff.
I was more than a little impressed that as soon as I installed Chrome on the new laptop & logged into my Google account, all my passwords, favorites and so on were downloaded to the new laptop!

Firefox has the same thing. Set up an account and you can sync what you choose. I avoid all things Google to the maximum extent possible. They know WAY too much about me as it is. Some web sites don't work well with Firefox (shades of 'it only works with IE6') so I have a secondary Chromium based browser for those.

[Anuj Prateek]

#1
Upgrading RAM is pretty simple to do. All you need is precision screwdriver (any $20 set) and maybe plastic pry tools ($5). Check your laptops spec and buy 8/16 GB ram from Amazon (or elsewhere) and sawp the old RAM. If disk size is less, you can upgrade it as well, when you upgrade the RAM.


#2
I would go with RHEL or Ubuntu. RHEL is not free and less shiny but comes with better support and IMO has better stability. On free side, again IMO nothing beats Ubuntu.

#3
Can't say about RHEL but Ubuntu will run off a USB. It will be slow. If its unacceptably slow, try Mint.

#4
I use Linux (RHEL) and Windows at work. Linux for development and Windows for browsing and mail. At home I use Windows, primarily for photo editing and general browsing. Linux does everything that windows will do but regular consumer software are more in Windows camp. Basically, windows is more hands off.

If you do not have any other motivation, I would suggest, upgrade RAM and Disk, then install Windows.

[Tyler Bancroft]

Ubuntu's popular for a reason - it has good package management (based on Debian, so you get to play with apt) and is generally pretty consistently stable and reliable. A suggestion: When picking a version, pick one of the LTS (Long-Term Support) versions. Those ones get several years of support, bugfixes, updates, etc. The current LTS is 18.04, but 16.04 is still supported. 20.04 should come out next month. You may want to try booting both 16.04 and 18.04 off of a USB stick to compare for performance, hardware compatibility, etc., before choosing between them.

[Curt Harms]

Ubuntu's popular for a reason - it has good package management (based on Debian, so you get to play with apt) and is generally pretty consistently stable and reliable. A suggestion: When picking a version, pick one of the LTS (Long-Term Support) versions. Those ones get several years of support, bugfixes, updates, etc. The current LTS is 18.04, but 16.04 is still supported. 20.04 should come out next month. You may want to try booting both 16.04 and 18.04 off of a USB stick to compare for performance, hardware compatibility, etc., before choosing between them.

Good advice. Hardware support can be a no brainer or an absolute nightmare. WiFi is probably the most common problem, Intel is very well supported, Atheros is pretty well supported, Broadcom may be difficult or impossible depending on chipset. HP and Brother printers are well supported in my experience, Epson & Canon printer/scanners are supported but are not as easy to install as HP or Brother. Lexmark inkjets aren't supported AFAIK, Lexmark enterprise level stuff is. Dell printers are or at least were rebadged Lexmark. One rule of thumb is older hardware is better supported than brand new hardware. There are stories of hardware whose manufacturers discontinued support in Windows 10 so no drivers but still works fine in Linux.