OMG I’m in love. AGIAN.....

[Patrick Walsh]

Just stumble down upon these looking for a Wadkin dm. Sent original poster a message but wonder if anyone can tell me more about these machines. Namely can you find one and if so how and where.

Thanks again,

http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=32627

[David Kumm]

Robinson machines are very rare , especially here in US. They were a smaller manufacturer than Wadkin. I have an ETE table saw and prefer it over the PK but it isn't as pretty. Those owwm pictures of the restored machines look like Mark, Brian, or Patrick level work over in UK. Dave

[Darcy Warner]

Except the tables don't tilt. Almost worthless.

[Patrick Walsh]

Maybe so Darcy but most all my work is square and I don’t want some huge mortiser in my shop. I don’t want my pos Felder Fd250 anymore but I also dont want anything like a huge Oliver. You know I just purchased a 12’ Oliver lathe so that the t75 my t54 and matching planer nested t23 time two one sliding table and I’m pretty much at capacity. Oh and a mill I gotta get a dam mill.

I do need something to cut mortise though and I’d like it to be easy peasy. And not huge!

I’d be open to a wysong and there is one right now for sale but I’d prefer a Wadkin dm or one of these Robinson’s as I am fully aware Robinson is more obscure and I like that.

I’m sick of buying and selling. I’m not buying anything anymore that’s just gonna get recycled through my shop. If I bring something in at this point it staying till I die. Otherwise I wait till I can get my hands on exactly what I want.

You only live once I’m making the most of it.

[Patrick Walsh]

Dave,

I took notice of the restoration work myself. The shiny green paint is nearly exact to what I used in my t75. Then the chemical blackened hardware. I’d love to do that tomthe t23 but it’s not original to the Martin machines so I won’t.

Back when mark out you for sale that Robinson sliding saw he had/has I was very very tempted. I actually think it’s very very nice looking. I’m ok with the Pk but not in love. Don’t get me wrong it’s purty but I like other stuff more.

Like that Robinson.


Robinson machines are very rare , especially here in US. They were a smaller manufacturer than Wadkin. I have an ETE table saw and prefer it over the PK but it isn't as pretty. Those owwm pictures of the restored machines look like Mark, Brian, or Patrick level work over in UK. Dave

[Warren Lake]

be nice to have tilt but havent needed it yet in 40 years and know its simple to put an angle on the table if i did.

[Jared Sankovich]

Maybe so Darcy but most all my work is square and I don’t want some huge mortiser in my shop. I don’t want my pos Felder Fd250 anymore but I also dont want anything like a huge Oliver. You know I just purchased a 12’ Oliver lathe so that the t75 my t54 and matching planer nested t23 time two one sliding table and I’m pretty much at capacity. Oh and a mill I gotta get a dam mill.

I do need something to cut mortise though and I’d like it to be easy peasy. And not huge!

I’d be open to a wysong and there is one right now for sale but I’d prefer a Wadkin dm or one of these Robinson’s as I am fully aware Robinson is more obscure and I like that.

I’m sick of buying and selling. I’m not buying anything anymore that’s just gonna get recycled through my shop. If I bring something in at this point it staying till I die. Otherwise I wait till I can get my hands on exactly what I want.

You only live once I’m making the most of it.

Isn't the wysong 321 within 100lbs of a oliver 91d?

[mreza Salav]

be nice to have tilt but havent needed it yet in 40 years and know its simple to put an angle on the table if i did.

Until you want to do square holes for balusters of railing....

[Patrick Walsh]

I don’t know about the weight but it’s the footprint I’m concerned with.


Isn't the wysong 321 within 100lbs of a oliver 91d?

[Warren Lake]

426776

then lower the table and block it up with an angle below, or put a hinge on the wood table bottom and angle it to what you need. Or make a jig that can tilt to any angle. If you have a table top thing then maybe not.

[Jared Sankovich]

I don’t know about the weight but it’s the footprint I’m concerned with.

Looks like the wysong has a slightly larger footprint per the literature though I'd guess they were likely the same in actually
Oliver 36x60x72
wysong 36x77x72
426777

[Patrick Walsh]

Yeah I like that wysong.

The guy I recently purchased my t23 from had one. Explained how it had a drill press chuck on it and mitigated the nightmare with chisels.

But you know I have a feeling as a result it would be less precise and precision is very important to me. Not a risk I’m willing to take. I’d rather buy the little wadkin then find someone to fix the problem for me with I think collets or whatever and or just get myself a honkin Metal lathe. Pretty sure my uncle who. Restores early teens cars would be happy to,let me set line up in his shop. Maybe not but maybe yes..


Looks like the wysong has a slightly larger footprint per the literature though I'd guess they were likely the same in actually
Oliver 36x60x72
wysong 36x77x72
426777

[Patrick Walsh]

Oh and Darcy no disrespect not agreeing.

I actually thank you for pointing that out as we all know there’s a good chance I don’t know and here I am saying I want forever machines. So yeah I get your perspective I would get a machine that can do everything.

And I appreciate your input.

[David Kumm]

This one isn't pretty but the size is fairly compact. Fay and Egan late 20s, early 30s.426789426788 It tilts but not 90 like in the picture. Dave

[Darcy Warner]

426776

then lower the table and block it up with an angle below, or put a hinge on the wood table bottom and angle it to what you need. Or make a jig that can tilt to any angle. If you have a table top thing then maybe not.

I have one of sitting in my shop. I still prefer my NF CM.

It's much nicer to just tilt the table.

[Brian Holcombe]

Patrick, that machine is restored by Andrew Hills, he is located in England. He has an Instagram account that is worth following and restores similar machines on the regular including the full range of Wadkin Mortisers.

I thought the lack of tilting table would hamper my use of the Wadkin, but it does not. Rather, I make a wedge then use that same wedge also for cutting tenons. I find it helpful as the angles are always the same and I don’t need to reset any of my fences.

In the machinist world it is common to leave the machine as is and use an auxiliary tilt table to accomplish the tilt. This is done for multiple reasons and one of the majors is that people often do not want to retram the machine each time they need to adjust a table. The same reason one avoids taking a saw fence out of square once it is made perfect.

[Darcy Warner]

Those little wadkins and Robinson's and dominions are good machines, they just lack some things that I think a mortiser should have, tilting table, lots of table travel, integrated dust blower, etc.

The little wysong or Oliver are great manual machines.

Never seen any accuracy issues when the have a drill chuck, still have a bushing to hold chisel.

Most don't change bit/chisel sizes that often anyway.

[brent stanley]

One thing about the big Robinson is the table assembly swings away and you can do door lock mortises with it, or anything else too large, kind of like the Stenner. I do what Brian does for angles and now that I have a routine down and am pretty fast at it, I dont know if my MF was magically given a tilt feature if I would use it.

[Patrick Walsh]

I’m not buying any machine right now as I clearly have been on a tear..

I am considering hocking the Felder ASAP though while I have my shop in shambles and setting the funds aside for a chisel mortiser.

One thing that is important to me is travel. I have no idea what the wadkin or Robinson has. Brian and others I’m sure can tell me.

I like to make big stuff passage doors, pipe organs. But let’s be realistic I barely use my home shop.

However I dint plan fir or expect that tube forever and I have zero patients for being limited by machines when if purchased or chosen more wisely one machine could achieve all tasks such as the case of a mortis machine.

[peter gagliardi]

Andrew does some very nice restorations for sure.
I can tell you, that from drill chuck to collet system, there will be no measurable runout difference- I have had both, and converted my Yates from collet to drill chuck with no issues.
I can tell you that I have a box that I got in a package deal with dozens of chisels, bits, and bushings that has several collets with bits welded in them, when the bit spun in the collet.
That simply will not happen with a drill chuck.
I have been fortunate to not have had the "welding" experience myself.
A lot of the new bits are not long enough to work with the old collet system, so if and when I need a bit I do not have, I look for old stuff.
I do not think I would like the arm lever after using the foot pedal.

[peter gagliardi]

If you want capacity, buy a chain mortiser.

[David Kumm]

For passage doors and most other stuff I use my Bacci oscillating mortiser far more than anything else. Dave

[Patrick Walsh]

Hmm is about where I’m at.

But it’s time to start figuring out exactly what machine suits my needs and parameters.

The bacci is attractive to me in many ways except space.

I was able to see Brian’s dm this weekend and my take away y wow it’s so cute in a bulldog kinda way.

I like stuff compact but thick. Well everything but women. I like them strung out and starving like Kate Moss. Oh Kate Moss I love you :(

[brent stanley]

Andrew just brought in 3 DMs for you to pick from !

B

[Patrick Walsh]

I couple people over on Instagram shared his info with me today.

And just sitting down for lunch now I am seeing them posted.

The issue with overseas I imagine will be I’ll need a transformer.

I’d much prefer to find something in the United States for that reason.

However it’s a double edged sword. I’d love a fully restored brand new machine as I dint have the time to do everything myself. But other than by maybe Mark or this guy or myself Or Darcy is just be disappointed.

[Darcy Warner]

For passage doors and most other stuff I use my Bacci oscillating mortiser far more than anything else. Dave

I agree that a slot mortiser or chain Mortiser are the best for passage doors. Hcm suck when trying to do that work.

[David Kumm]

Patrick, if you stay on the old iron road you will eventually have vfds and transformers. I made a 240-600 transformer and bought a 240-480. Condition is always more important than volts or hz. Find a good motor rewind guy and watch for used transformers. A vfd will adjust hz for any 50 hz motor and most low voltage three phase can be converted to 240. Dave

[Warren Lake]

I prefer the handles over foot stuff. My hands and arms are stronger and more coordinated, guess i didnt do enough Riverdancing. I can put my body weight into a handle and there is more leverage. The best improvement on that machine was turning down the cold lifeless suck the energy out of you metal handles and turning Birdsye maple handles. Night and day. Im probably Jadded as i just tried a Hoffman and it had crap blades in it and was pathetic in both pressure and lack of cut quality. Not to do with the machine, just the owner.

The chain mortiser is a monster and flies through stuff fast. Chisel both ends then chain between.

My machine came from a school that means just about for certain some Cannibals used it, even the odd teacher is a concern. Machine came with chisels used for many years by those students, zero welding, the only negative i see is from over tightening large set screws and leaving an impression in the auger. From that aspect if its going to be used by Cannibals id say a quill is better. If they are not taught common sense then the machine will suffer.

On mortise chisel length three of us did an order from Wadkin years back and when you choose your sizes every one we ordered came in two different lengths. The stuff ive seen from say Lee would be the short length of Wadkin bits only the Wadkin stuff was all made to imperial dimensions and not dimensions from Mars. In that case the depth of cut is related to the tooling, 16 inch blade can cut deeper than the 10" cabient saw.

[Mark Hennebury]

Patrick it's fairly obvious that you need one of each kind of mortiser. So, a small Maka, and a large one, the multi head machine are nice, a automatic slot mortiser for chairs, so either a Bacci like Davids, or a Balestrini like mine. You then need a hollow chisel mortise, may I suggest a combination machine Wadkin or Robinson hollow chisel / chain. And just to round it out a nice French made Alternax. Of course then we will have to start on the tenoners. With all of that you will need a bigger workshop, and you really won't need a house any more at this point as you wont be spending any time there anyway. Did no-one warn you about just how deep this rabbit hole was?

[Joe Calhoon]

Mark is right that one mortiser does not fit the bill for everything. Those Bacci mortisers with the tenoners are the way to go for chairs or anywhere you need angled tenons. the HC is probably the most universal. For years we built doors with loose tenons using a slot mortiser. Don’t use loose anymore so that dictates something that leaves a square mortise. Chain or Maka for production doors but in semi retirement I find myself doing a lot of one off entry’s and don’t mind the HC for that. Not on a batch of doors though.

I’m pretty happy with my DM. I tried a Oliver with foot feed and prefer the lever. The Good points of the DM is good looks, the haunching stop, the big handwheel, a lot of table movement both ways, ease of adjusting table movement and Brian’s blower. Only had to make a angle table a couple times so not a big deal for me. I have never had a problem getting oversized augers from LV or ordering from the UK. Down side of the DM is the older ones have the crazy Whitworth threads and dealing with the auger bushings. I hope to acquire a UK chain-chisel at some point. Preferably one with the turret stop for mortise width.

Never seen one in person but the Japanese HC’s seem to be very high quality.

[Darcy Warner]

I have the wadkin chain chisel machine, but I won't get rid of it, well at least not for cheap. Finding one here is tough. This one came out of Moosejaw.

[Patrick Walsh]

Dam you Mark are you trying to ruin the only fun I have left in my life.

My body is broken so I can’t recreate, my head is has always been broken so I hermitize, I have yet to find a employer to let me obsess to the pint I can feel fulfilled.

This machine thing is all I got. Well and my dog he is wicked just the best freaking thing ever.

But no nobody warned me as I don’t know a sole that actually gives a shit about this crap in the physical form other than well now Brian lol. But that’s it.

And Alternax how dare you tell me about something I don’t know about that I’m gonna assume I must have to have if you name dropped it lol..

Really I’m picky, like really picky, it’s not so much that I like the right tool for the right job it’s more I can’t stand doing the job with a inferior tool when I know the right one will allow me the perfect results I expect of myself. But you know I don’t think I really need four kinds of mortisers or a tenoner even though I know your joking.

Just something I can rely on for either task. The Martin tenon table will be my tenoner regardless of if there is a better dedicated solution. I won’t say never but I’m pretty sure I’m not ever gonna be pumping out 6000 of the same exact door. Maybe, I wouldn’t say no but I doubt it as nobody knows who the hell I am or what I do to ask me to do the job..

And so long as I keep up the way I’m keeping up that’s never gonna change. I made a Instagram page thinking it may help long term. Doubt it as I keep to myself so much.




Patrick it's fairly obvious that you need one of each kind of mortiser. So, a small Maka, and a large one, the multi head machine are nice, a automatic slot mortiser for chairs, so either a Bacci like Davids, or a Balestrini like mine. You then need a hollow chisel mortise, may I suggest a combination machine Wadkin or Robinson hollow chisel / chain. And just to round it out a nice French made Alternax. Of course then we will have to start on the tenoners. With all of that you will need a bigger workshop, and you really won't need a house any more at this point as you wont be spending any time there anyway. Did no-one warn you about just how deep this rabbit hole was?

[Patrick Walsh]

Send me a pm with the details. But honesty right now I couldn’t do poop and I have a feeling it’s more machine than I bargained for even if in function it’s exactly what I need?
‘


I have the wadkin chain chisel machine, but I won't get rid of it, well at least not for cheap. Finding one here is tough. This one came out of Moosejaw.

[Patrick Walsh]

I have a slot mortiser now. It’s slow and tiring on my carpal tunnel.

Could be the machine as it’s a you know who. But I don’t know as I have never used another slot mortiser.

Sadly I’m thinking people might be right about a chisel/chain..

It’s not what I was thinking nor what I wanted mostly for space and ease of moving. But you know I think I could fit it size wise and if it does what I need I’ll be happy.

I like this you overseas he likes high gloss what looks like auto body paint like I do.

Man that those Robinson machines are purity. Wish I could use four letter words as I’d say............
.
I agree that a slot mortiser or chain Mortiser are the best for passage doors. Hcm suck when trying to do that work.

[Darcy Warner]

I had the perfect small shop chain mortiser, a festo PP.

I think a maka would suit your needs, they are super capable machines and don't take up a bunch of room.

No, I am not selling my Wadkin combo. Lol.

[Mel Fulks]

I've used Wysong and Oliver mortisers, and would be happy with either. No one likes to cop to breaking a hollow chisel,
but no matter how carefully you set them up and how careful you are ,they just don't last long in hard woods. For that
reason ,and for the precision of the cuts , I see the Maka as superior.

[Patrick Walsh]

Come on wtf throw a carrot out like that.

And to me, place nice Darcy.

In all reality I could even afford it for months anyhow.

The more I look I want one of those Robinson’s chain/chisels from the guy in the UK and I’ll just deal with a transformer.

But if you did change your mind ;)

[Patrick Walsh]

I’m understand now why Brisn has both maka and chisel.

Mark has a maka I’d be smitten to own but at last I spend ti quick and would really need to prepare for such a purchase.

I’d love to own a piece of his work though one OCD perfectionist weirdo to another.

[Jared Sankovich]

I’m understand now why Brisn has both maka and chisel.

Mark has a maka I’d be smitten to own but at last I spend ti quick and would really need to prepare for such a purchase.

I’d love to own a piece of his work though one OCD perfectionist weirdo to another.

There was a maka svt local to me last Feb. Went for about $500iirc. Freshly rebuilt head per the shop selling. After looking in person I realized I didn't have enough space for the stv, but a m6 would be perfect.
426843
426844

[Mark Hennebury]

Abandon all hope ye who enters the old iron rabbit hole.


Patrick, I am just enjoying watching the descent into madness of another innocent soul, it is one of the few pleasures in life.

Happiness is not for us, pain and suffering is our lot. The restless souls, tortured, driven to insanity searching for the mythical absolute.

Happiness is for the well balanced, the good-enough's, the Norman normals of this world. People who can see a mountain and are not compelled to climb it, a horizon and are not consumed with finding out what is out there, those who don't have to get their dial indicators to register all 0's before they can move on.

The people that can use a thickness planer that leaves a little snipe.

You my friend are toast.

A little wisdom to cushion your fall;

What's the difference between a $1,000 table and a $10,000 table

$9,000...…….. that's all... the tables are identical.

Perceived value has nothing to do with actual value.

Many years ago a customer asked me to build him a Krenov style silverware chest.... because, he didn't want to pay Krenov prices for it.

Anyone can build furniture as good as Krenov, Nakashima, Malloof or any other famous person. Furniture is easy to make, once you have paid your dues, and know what you are doing.
Getting paid for it depends on one thing only .....public perception.
If you remain a hermit, you get $1000 for your table, if you are lucky.
If you become famous you get $10,000 or $20,000 for the same table.

Being a hermit may be the biggest hurdle that you have to overcome if you want to survive.






Dam you Mark are you trying to ruin the only fun I have left in my life.

My body is broken so I can’t recreate, my head is has always been broken so I hermitize, I have yet to find a employer to let me obsess to the pint I can feel fulfilled.

This machine thing is all I got. Well and my dog he is wicked just the best freaking thing ever.

But no nobody warned me as I don’t know a sole that actually gives a shit about this crap in the physical form other than well now Brian lol. But that’s it.

And Alternax how dare you tell me about something I don’t know about that I’m gonna assume I must have to have if you name dropped it lol..

Really I’m picky, like really picky, it’s not so much that I like the right tool for the right job it’s more I can’t stand doing the job with a inferior tool when I know the right one will allow me the perfect results I expect of myself. But you know I don’t think I really need four kinds of mortisers or a tenoner even though I know your joking.

Just something I can rely on for either task. The Martin tenon table will be my tenoner regardless of if there is a better dedicated solution. I won’t say never but I’m pretty sure I’m not ever gonna be pumping out 6000 of the same exact door. Maybe, I wouldn’t say no but I doubt it as nobody knows who the hell I am or what I do to ask me to do the job..

And so long as I keep up the way I’m keeping up that’s never gonna change. I made a Instagram page thinking it may help long term. Doubt it as I keep to myself so much.

[Patrick Walsh]

Ouch mark,

That stings, it really does. Like pretty bad.

Because I know it to be very true. Maybe it’s obvious from a distance but for me it has taken decades to come to understand the truth you so easily observed and simply spoke.

Coming out of my shell “namely marketing myself” in any shape or form is very very painful for me as in all honestly I have 100% zero interest in doing so. It always feels dishonest as if I’m blowing smoker up the other persons ass as largely I’d rather being doing just about anything else than shooting the shit. The only place this does not apply is to Woodworking and machinery. Then you know I won’t go home lol..

I’m so content just muttering along by myself. It’s not that I find interacting with others painful so to speak. But 40 hrs of human interaction is plenty for me. It’s that I just crave feverishly for alone time and can never find enough. With all life’s responsibilities along side making a living those 40 hrs and I just need to be alone.

I also feel zero need to put on a show or sell/market myself in the slightest. For whatever reason I have always been perfectly content that either you like me or you don’t and I’m not the slightest bothered when you don’t. Not that I see marketing as making people like you I just hate putting on a show or a bullshit smile or being overly friendly trying to win someone’s business. It’s ironic though as I’m like a pro at it so every employer I have ever had tells me. I always find a way to connect with clients and clients always really like me.

Point is other than survival I have zero internal motivation to scrounge up the impetus to do as you suggested. In my early years I didn’t understand how integral it would become to d]securing my place in this world. At 43 I get it now and it really kinda sucks as you Know I could live in a shed Siberia have my food air dropped to me never see another person again and be blissfully turn to ether.

I understand this does not work if your concerned with survival in this modern world.

I edited this as I responded at work on a break silly fast earlier today. As typical to me I made a mess.

[peter gagliardi]

If you do ever look into a hollow chisel machine, Wysongs are really some of the better US ones.
Skip anything that is Oliver, as I have yet to see one with a stout fence. Matter of fact, skip anything that has a poor excuse for a back fence like the Ollie, unless you are doing only small scale cabinet or sash work.
Full size doors are much better on a machine with a real back fence.

Collecting machines, is like my buddy said about drinking beer- he is a professional- "One is too many, and 30 ain't enough!"

[Brian Holcombe]

We can drive off the deep end, which is fun to do but frankly I’m pretty satisfied with the Wadkin DM and Maka. For a tight space like mine the SM6 is good and for a big space the STV. I’ve not used the STV but I expect that it covers the complete range of mortises which can be cut by chain mortiser.

Im also in need of economizing my space and this covers a ton of stuff for me while consuming about 10ft sq in total (both machines).

It’s probably a benefit in many ways that I do not have the space as I could easily see 4-5 machines additional.

[Patrick Walsh]

You know it’s really funny I got this old iron bug so bad. Ironic really as I loved shiny new crap to start.

Part of the allure to new shiny was the lie I told myself the stuff would operate flawless without any effort regarding accuracy. I have had that experience with my Martin jointer but that’s it.

I think part of what threw me over the edge into this as it has taught me side by side as a maker the skills “required” to be worth a crap as a maker. It didn’t take long for me to get that as a maker you must be able to tune, maintain and repair your machines. Mostly I came to this when I folded and decided to rely on machinery repair techs only to be left disappointed and broke.

Ultimately the machine thing has unfolded as most anything I get into does. Normally the first thing for me is insecurity or fear or lack of belief in myself. I then sit silently on the sidelines gathering the knowledge tools and resources nessiary to execute my desires in a manner that I pretty much can assure success or dam close to it the first time. These machines have been a bit like that. Restoring them has gone had and hand with my development and ability as a woodworker.

And yeah part of the obsession is I just have a compulsive personality. I’m also a perfectionist so convincing yourself you gotta have exactly the right tool for the job is pretty easy. Funny though the longer I work wood the more I pair down my kit and the less tools I rely upon.


Your 30 pack analogy is pretty much a dead ringer and a I t of reference a younger me can directly relate to lol.

At this point I just want one of everything “I need” you know and the coolest most obscure yet highly functional one. The unicorn so to speak I have very little interest anymor4 in anything new other than a planer to go with my jointer. I am not rich regardless of how it may appear looking from the outside in. So this is kinda perfect for me as I can find a heap for hundreds to a few grand then dump a hundred here a hundred there to fulfill my ocd machine fetish.

Sadly it’s the Robinson or Wadkin for me at this point and probably the chisel/chain. And you know a Maka the small one. I did see a wysong a couple weeks ago in person. It was wicked nice and more than I’d ever need. But once I get my head set on something I’m screwed. And that Robinson is just stupid nice.

And mark yeah I’m totally screwed. As a result I’d imagine many whom also understand this specific form of screwed are having quite a bit of fun watch me fall deeper and deeper into this hole.



If you do ever look into a hollow chisel machine, Wysongs are really some of the better US ones.
Skip anything that is Oliver, as I have yet to see one with a stout fence. Matter of fact, skip anything that has a poor excuse for a back fence like the Ollie, unless you are doing only small scale cabinet or sash work.
Full size doors are much better on a machine with a real back fence.

Collecting machines, is like my buddy said about drinking beer- he is a professional- "One is too many, and 30 ain't enough!"

[Patrick Walsh]

Pretty much i 100% agree with this and am In exactly the same situation.

It was pretty much seeing Brian’s machines and having the conversation with him exactly as he just stated that inspired the mortiser kick. I’d been thinking of one but it had yet to be a priority and I knew I didn’t know exactly what I wanted.

It was a ah ha moment when I saw the machine. I don’t have the room for huge everything as I’ll have three very huge machines in my tiny 100sqft basement shop.

But I am committed to having one of everything I feel I need and or want to do quality work efficiently in a manner I enjoy doing it.

Im not much for struggling along with crap machines. I’m willing to do that 40 hrs a week for money but that’s about it. On my time no way or I just want do it. When I’m old and retire I’m gonna finally be able to build cool shit and not have to spend my time squaring this fence or that fence. Adjusting the panel again or emptying the dam dust collector ad huffing dust like 500 times a hour. I just don’t find it fun at all but for $$ it’s better than digging ditches.



We can drive off the deep end, which is fun to do but frankly I’m pretty satisfied with the Wadkin DM and Maka. For a tight space like mine the SM6 is good and for a big space the STV. I’ve not used the STV but I expect that it covers the complete range of mortises which can be cut by chain mortiser.

Im also in need of economizing my space and this covers a ton of stuff for me while consuming about 10ft sq in total (both machines).

It’s probably a benefit in many ways that I do not have the space as I could easily see 4-5 machines additional.

[Jeff Duncan]

I've been using an old Bini slot mortiser for making doors etc for years. Great little machine does just what I need it to. Not sure why yours is difficult.... maybe wrong/dull bits? Anyway I added a Powermatic 400 last year as I had to do some historical work which required traditional m&t, and its a great little machine! Neither of these are particular fancy or stunning to look at, but they both get work out the door which is my main concern. Then again if I did more of that type of work on elf the Maka's might make a lot of sense!

JeffD

[Patrick Walsh]

I’ve seen the BI is in use. I agree nice machines. My carpal tunnel hates the back and forth action of a slot mortiser. Anytime I have to grip anything the same exact way for long periods I’m in hell.

Plus bit whip, I hate bit whip. I’m picky I want perfect mortis like a Maka will cut for furniture. Then a chisel or chain I guess although I know nothing about them for large mortis for doors and large work. What can I say I a pampered picky bitch.




I've been using an old Bini slot mortiser for making doors etc for years. Great little machine does just what I need it to. Not sure why yours is I’ve seen difficult.... maybe wrong/dull bits? Anyway I added a Powermatic 400 last year as I had to do some historical work which required traditional m&t, and its a great little machine! Neither of these are particular fancy or stunning to look at, but they both get work out the door which is my main concern. Then again if I did more of that type of work on elf the Maka's might make a lot of sense!

JeffD

[Mark Hennebury]

Patrick,

The automatic slot mortisers, like the Bacci, Balestrini, Rye, Pade etc are all powered cross travel and variable feed speed. There is also no bit whip with these machines.
Bit whip occurs with the hand machines due to the table banging into a stop at each end of the cross stroke; these machines use a system like a piston and crank, where a rotary shaft drives a linear table, this gives a perfect ramp-down / ramp-up at the ends of each stroke, the change in direction of each stroke is incredible smooth and the stop is unperceivable.



Of course out of the factory they are designed for high production, speed over quality, but when properly tweaked for quality over speed
they simple cant be beat.
Matched with their counterpart tenoners are the dream team for chair making.


These are brilliant machines.




427089

Buckle up buttercup.....

[Patrick Walsh]

Will you call me buttercup all the time ;)

Man you know so freaking much. I guess now that you tell me I should had figured out the whip was the result of banging a stop didn’t cross my mind. I figured it was just the result of coming to the shoulders of the mortise.

Yeah I’m screwed. I’ll look into them but I only have so much room. I got myself sold on a Robinson Chain Chisel and Maka. I know I dream big but I’ll run out of machines to buy soon enough. I dragged my Martin t54 around Friday as my long fork pallet jack was stuck under it. The thing is huge, like huge and heavy as whiffle balls. Having not seen it in a couple months I couldn’t help but think “I ain’t dragging that into my basement” .

I’ll move but not for a while. The unicorn t23 tenon table and the Robinson will give me something to dream about.



Patrick,

The automatic slot mortisers, like the Bacci, Balestrini, Rye, Pade etc are all powered cross travel and variable feed speed. There is also no bit whip with these machines.
Bit whip occurs with the hand machines due to the table banging into a stop at each end of the cross stroke; these machines use a system like a piston and crank, where a rotary shaft drives a linear table, this gives a perfect ramp-down / ramp-up at the ends of each stroke, the change in direction of each stroke is incredible smooth and the stop is unperceivable.



Of course out of the factory they are designed for high production, speed over quality, but when properly tweaked for quality over speed
they simple cant be beat.
Matched with their counterpart tenoners are the dream team for chair making.


These are brilliant machines.




427089

Buckle up buttercup.....

[Patrick Walsh]

For crap sake Mark!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZ2sVuDZHg8

My first impression just seeing the cuts before I watched the video is that looks like the crap teak outdoor furniture I paid way to much for.

But when he showed how perfect the alignment was I changed my mind.

I can’t help but think well then where is the Woodworking. Kinda how I feel about cnc but you know I can’t argue with the perfect result.

How deep of a tenon can one of those things cut.

[Mark Hennebury]

Patrick,

The machine in the video is a newer Balestrini mortiser
Mine is an older one, you see in the video that the cross-travel is fast; this is meant for good mortise and high production output.
For a small shop you don't need that high output. And although the cross-stroke of the spindle head is variable it is way too fast. I put in a gearbox to slow the cross stroke of the spindle down a lot. The spindle is belt driven and slow rpm, so I re-machined the spindle to increase the spindle rpm. Now you are cooking. Slow Smooth cross slide of the spindle table, higher rpm of the spindle, and proper cutting tools, and you have a sweet machine. You also have infinitely variable infeed speed, and stroke length ( within the range of the machine) They provide a smooth gentle clean precise cut.
When you couple that with the incredible tenon machines, that have infinitely variable length, thickness and radius of the tenon, plus compound angle cuts, with automatic chamfered tenon ends, you have a pretty unbeatable setup. You can dial in to a few thou how you want the fit, slip fit on the width, tight fit on the length.
Pretty sweet setup.
I am going to do a rebuild on the mortise that I have someday soon, I will post it and show you just how good they are.
Depth if I recall is about 4" max

Before all. you have to decide what you are all about.


Do you want your furniture to stand on its own, good or bad, no explanations necessary.


To me it was simple;
I wanted to make furniture the best that it could be made, in the most efficient way that I could make it.

To me a mortise is either good or its not.
Whatever way that I can make the best mortise is the way that I will do it.
Anything else is about the maker not the work.

I make furniture not excuses.

Don't for one second think that doing the best is easy.


Woodworking for me is about doing the best work, not about bragging about how I do it.
So find me someone, somewhere that can handcut a better mortise, faster and more consistent.
I see no value in chopping sloppy joints by hand and taking tens times longer to do it, any more than handplaning all of my rough lumber.
Their is no mystical value added to furniture in doing it by hand.
Either the work is as good as it can be or its not.

I do both machine and hand work. I like handplaned joints for table tops, because I can get a better fit and finish.

I learnt with hand tool, I enjoy doing hand work once in a while, because its fun.

Understanding wood, tools, joinery, referencing, tuning machinery, cutting tool geometry, modifying machinery and doing complex projects without error, to the highest level of quality is plenty enough woodworking for me.

Like most things in life; in woodworking there two ways to do things; the best or the rest. Make your choice.

[Patrick Walsh]

Well Mark I can agree that “the best” is the best.

In all honesty I’m building my shop based largely around hobby Woodworking or a old retired guy trying to make a few extra bucks here and then doing something they don’t mind doing.

Part of my motivation is the experience of working for employers that do not share our ethic or moral regarding “best and most efficient”. It’s annoying, real annoying and someday and at least weekends I plan to not argue with my dam machines. Or walk both ways uphill in a snow storm just to complete a simple task.

If I do find myself self employed at some point like you I will surely just open the dam checkbook and buy the dam machine thats gonna get the job done to highest standard and ina time sensitive manner.

Not many take this approach is what I’m finding. Sounds like you found the same working for others.

[Darcy Warner]

I prefer the production side. Nothing like the sound of a few moulders running and all the equipment that supports them at the same time. Furniture is of no interest to me.

[Patrick Walsh]

No interest in production anything. Different strokes different folks. Each to his own though..


I prefer the production side. Nothing like the sound of a few moulders running and all the equipment that supports them at the same time. Furniture is of no interest to me.

[Darcy Warner]

Well tuned and well running production is a beautiful thing.

[Patrick Walsh]

I suppose it must have its appeal. Honestly any task under the helm of Woodworking I find great joy in. Well I don’t want to cut down the dam trees and I don’t ever want to touch a piece of construction lumber ever again but..

I know I can mill stock all day and it’s maybe one of my favorite Woodworking tasks. But I have always assumed that is largely as it mindless and a nice break from the previous days or weeks of thinking and head down focus that usual came prior.

I coils never run a moulding machine all day. No way no hell.







Well tuned and well running production is a beautiful thing.

[Mark Hennebury]

I will have to agree with Darcy, Much as I love one of a kind stuff, I do love to do production runs, the whole setting up and running, and the beautiful sound of machinery doing its stuff. And piles of work getting done, everything being done right.... it is very satisfying.

[peter gagliardi]

Production also equates to easily calculable time, money, and most importantly if you are in business, PROFIT.
Profit in and of itself is an important thing, but it also balances out those times that a job goes over budget or over time when you cannot let something out the door because it is substandard, and you invest from yourself to get it right and keep your pride and reputation intact.
I love challenging projects like what I am currently working on, but welcome the chances to fire the molder for a few hours of mind numbing hum. Knowing it is predictable income.
Balance

[Patrick Walsh]

Yes if I was self employed I’d be happy to take on the above mentioned type work to fill in with $$ in mind.

But all day everyday just for $$ no thanks. I refuse to work just for $$ tyoud find me strung up in my basement in a matter of months.

This is why I work for somebody. Find someone whom has a need for the work I like to do and I’m better off, then I don’t have to worry about money. I do however then have budget based on my earnings pretty much being fixed vrs the sky is the limit. Or in many cases of self employment I don’t have to worry about hard times until the economy goes way south then we all do really.

But I guess is still need to worry about longevity to my position. But I’d have to do the same if I was self employed as I’d have to be out hustling always worried about the next job. Sometimes I think that would be better but I know what works best for me a as I have tried both. I’d do the self employment thing again out of necessity but probably only necessity.

I agree balance is best.


Production also equates to easily calculable time, money, and most importantly if you are in business, PROFIT.
Profit in and of itself is an important thing, but it also balances out those times that a job goes over budget or over time when you cannot let something out the door because it is substandard, and you invest from yourself to get it right and keep your pride and reputation intact.
I love challenging projects like what I am currently working on, but welcome the chances to fire the molder for a few hours of mind numbing hum. Knowing it is predictable income.
Balance