Powermatic PM1000 Motor Upgrade Question

[John McKissick]

I am considering a PM1000 with the 1-3/4 HP motor bacause that is the limit of my current electrical service in the garage.

How much would be involved, if I ever get upgraded service, to put in a bigger motor say to 3 HP ? Cost? Degree of difficulty? Practicality?

[Bill Dufour]

tool type?

[Mike Henderson]

tool type?

I think the PM1000 is a cabinet saw.

Mike

[Bill Dufour]

I think powermatic uses a c-face motor for their cabinets saws.
Bil lD

[John McKissick]

tool type?

If you are asking me what type of tool a PM1000 is then with all due respect I doubt you would know the answer. It is cabinet style table saw.

[Scott Bernstein]

I upgraded my sawstop from the 1.75hp (120v) to 3hp (220v) motor. I don't know what kind of motor or mount you need for the powermatic, but maybe you could purchase the more powerful motor directly from them so you know it would be compatible. In addition to replacing the actual motor, I needed to install a new contactor switch. Then it's just a question of wiring the new switch to the motor and then changing the plug on the power cord of the saw. The process of installing the motor took a few hours, which included removing the cast iron tables and then re-adjusting the saw after re-assembly.

[Malcolm McLeod]

If you are asking me what type of tool a PM1000 is then with all due respect I doubt you would know the answer. It is cabinet style table saw.

I didn’t know what it was either, but I deal with a few motors.

If you want ‘remove & replace’, then the first step is to determine the motor’s frame size (see nameplate). Any simple swap will require you match the new motor to this. There is some overlap in frame sizes, but not a lot: a 1.75hp frame will likely overlap to 2hp; getting to 3hp may be tough.

As Scott points out, the electricals will need to match.

Regardless of the tool, I’d budget at least $150 per horsepower for the motor and $80-$150 for electrical components - if all new. Used cost will be all over the map, and simply depend on luck and patience.

[Jim Becker]

If you are asking me what type of tool a PM1000 is then with all due respect I doubt you would know the answer. It is cabinet style table saw.

It's a valid question, John...most folks don't know tools by model numbers since there are literally thousands of them and clarification helps people provide helpful responses. :) I've been here since 2003 and while I suspected this was a saw, I didn't know for sure.

My answer to your question, given it's a cabinet saw, is that assuming you can source a heavier motor with the same mount and the arbor, et al, is heavy enough to handle the extra torque, you should be fine.

[John McKissick]

I am considering a PM1000 with the 1-3/4 HP motor bacause that is the limit of my current electrical service in the garage.

How much would be involved, if I ever get upgraded service, to put in a bigger motor say to 3 HP ? Cost? Degree of difficulty? Practicality?

Well I called tech support and the guy said they don't sell a motor upgrade and braket along with electronics would need to be changed as I was told here.
Don't know why I didn't think to call in the first place but thanks to all for replying and I do appologize for not being more specific of what I was talking about.

[John McKissick]

tool type?

Sorry for my answer that appeared more curt than I intended after I went back a re-read it. I did neglect to say it was a table saw.

[Bill Dufour]

You will need to upgrade the heaters in the motor starter or turn the dial up to higher amps. Or you may have to replace the whole switch gear setup. Check the motor for a NEMA frame number and try to match that to a new motor. If it matches it should bolt up with no problems. Watch the shaft diameter and keyway is the same and it is long enough.
My suggestion is always to put a short cord and plug on the motor and a short cord and receptacle off the switch. This makes for easy motor changes now and in the future. You can wire the motor on the bench with the cord. While the motor is out of the way, sitting on the bench, wire the cabinet. Then simply install the motor and plug it in.
Bil lD

PS: when you bench wire the motor test it before installation just to make sure it is correct.

[Andrew Nemeth]

that is the limit of my current electrical service in the garage.

Due to the cost and hassle of swapping out the motor later, I’d be inclined to invest the money in upgrading the service. I know it’s not always feasible, but 220v service opens up a lot of possibilities down the road.

[Frank Pratt]

You will need to upgrade the heaters in the motor starter or turn the dial up to higher amps. Or you may have to replace the whole switch gear setup. Check the motor for a NEMA frame number and try to match that to a new motor. If it matches it should bolt up with no problems. Watch the shaft diameter and keyway is the same and it is long enough.
My suggestion is always to put a short cord and plug on the motor and a short cord and receptacle off the switch. This makes for easy motor changes now and in the future. You can wire the motor on the bench with the cord. While the motor is out of the way, sitting on the bench, wire the cabinet. Then simply install the motor and plug it in.
Bil lD

PS: when you bench wire the motor test it before installation just to make sure it is correct.

It's not a 3 Ph motor, so it will have integral OL protection. He just needs to ensure that the starter is big enough to handle the current of the larger motor.

[Dave Sabo]

That's Powermatic's newest saw and its target market was someone in exactly your position.

Hobbyist shop without 220v.

I doubt the saw's trunnions would support a 3hp motor. Because if they could , I'm sure PM would be more than happy to sell you one since they already have them in their lineup.

This is looks to me like old Craftsman ZipCode saw's that have been given the Powermatic treatment.

Given your situation and statements, I think I'd consider a beefier cabinet saw and downgrade the motor to 1.75hp. That way you get the benefits of the heavier duty saw and can still run it on 110v. If you get 220v , your upgrade path is already set.

[John McKissick]

That's Powermatic's newest saw and its target market was someone in exactly your position.

Hobbyist shop without 220v.

I doubt the saw's trunnions would support a 3hp motor. Because if they could , I'm sure PM would be more than happy to sell you one since they already have them in their lineup.

This is looks to me like old Craftsman ZipCode saw's that have been given the Powermatic treatment.

Given your situation and statements, I think I'd consider a beefier cabinet saw and downgrade the motor to 1.75hp. That way you get the benefits of the heavier duty saw and can still run it on 110v. If you get 220v , your upgrade path is already set.

The tech support guy at PM said the trunions would easily handle the added torque and loads but indicated it would be impractical to upgrade

[Jamie Buxton]

I have a 1 1/2 hp Unisaw I bought forty years ago. I have used it a lot -- it has helped build a couple hundred cabinets and pieces of furniture. I've never found big need to upgrade to higher horsepower. Perhaps 3 hp would be good if I were regularly ripping 3"-thick hardwood with a high feed rate, but otherwise my existing power works just fine. So I'd suggest you buy the 1 3/4 hp PM1000, and not worry about it.

[Jacob Reverb]

I agree with Jamie. Unless you're ripping heavy stuff all the time, there's not much to be gained from a bigger motor except feed rate. So you spend 15 minutes/day ripping instead of 7 minutes/day. So what? A bigger motor will also consume more kWh (regardless of load), be more expensive to replace, etc etc. You also won't be able to stall it as easily if you get into trouble.

Other than slightly reducing the likelihood of kickback, I don't see a lot of benefit from a bigger motor...

[John McKissick]

I have a 1 1/2 hp Unisaw I bought forty years ago. I have used it a lot -- it has helped build a couple hundred cabinets and pieces of furniture. I've never found big need to upgrade to higher horsepower. Perhaps 3 hp would be good if I were regularly ripping 3"-thick hardwood with a high feed rate, but otherwise my existing power works just fine. So I'd suggest you buy the 1 3/4 hp PM1000, and not worry about it.

That may well be true but 2 things to consider. I have no idea how I may using the saw in future and even if I never have to upgrade it's good to know beforehand if it's even possible.
Good chance I would never need to but I have popped the breaker and bogged the Bosch jobsite saw I have which claims 4hp which I don't believe. The tech guy also pointed out if/when I do get 220v out there the motor can be wired for it and, according to him, run more efficiently than off 110V

[Mike Henderson]

I'd buy the 3HP saw and then take one of two approaches:

1. Find a way to get 240V to the saw.

2. Buy a 1 3/4HP motor for the saw and keep the 3HP for when you have 240v.

Mike

[Frank Pratt]

The tech guy also pointed out if/when I do get 220v out there the motor can be wired for it and, according to him, run more efficiently than off 110V

Don't put too much stock in that. The only way the motor will run better or more efficiently is if it's a long way to the panel & the wiring isn't properly sized for the voltage drop. 120V or 240V, the motor windings don't care because with 120V they are in parallel, 240V they are in series. So each winding is always seeing just 120V.

[Jim Becker]

bogged the Bosch jobsite saw I have which claims 4hp which I don't believe.

And you are right not to believe that...many tools with universal motors like that small jobsite saw state HP right at the point of failure. Shop vacs are the largest ofender for that, but portable saws are right up there. HP on induction motors that are used on cabinet saws and even most contractors' style saws are more consistently rated.

The claim of a dual voltage motor running "more efficiently" is kinda bogus in most cases, too. There have been a few saws historically that had dual voltage motors thad had extra windings so they would have slightly more horsepower at 240v (1.5 vs 2) but that's not common. The total amperage draw when you switch voltages on most 1ph induction motors remains the same for the same work...it's just flowing over two separate conductors. that may be what the dude is referring to with his "efficiency" statement, but the math still comes up the way it does.

You can do good work with the existing motor and I agree with the others that a sharp blade and appropriate feed rate goes a long way. It sounds like you can put a more powerful motor on there in the future if you want to, however.

[Brian Runau]

John:

The mounting of the motor whether it is C-face or foot mount will be different. A 56 or a 145 frame to a 182 frame. Shaft diameter will be larger. The pulley and belt system will probably need to be changed, not just due to shaft size, but also due to the Hp being transmitted. If the pulleys are sized for a 2hp drive the 3hp will damage them. Depends what's on their now.

Brian