New Grizzly Parallelogram 8" jointer G0490

[Jeff Watson]

Here is my quandary. Just got the new Woodshop News today. In it they have an ad for the new Grizzly 8" Parallelogram jointer. Intro price is $750 + $85 shipping. It has a 3HP motor compared to the G0586 which has a 2HP motor. I was ready to buy the G0586 next week before the price went up, but this new jointer looks pretty good, has a modern design, but has no track record. I haven't heard any bad things about the G0586, so the conservative move would be to stay with my original plan and buy the G0586, but I also plan to have this jointer for a log time and have heard good things about the parallelogram design. The cost difference is not that much of a factor to me.

Comparing stats of the two jointers in the ad, the G0490 has a the bigger motor and the improved design. It also has levers to adjust the infeed and outfeed tables. What puzzles me is the shipping weight. I have always assumed heavier is better. The G0490 shipping weight is 97 pounds ligher than the G0586. Any comments would be great. I have a little over a week to make a decision before the price goes up.
:confused:

[Dev Emch]

Holly Cow was this fast! It was just the other day we where having the debate of the century over the FWW jointer tests and the grizzly versus DJ debate. And now, it sounds like grizzly has a competitor to the DJ-20 ready to go in the chutes.

1). I am just dying to get a picture of this machine. Anyone out there got some photos for posting?

2). Either papa grizz had this in the pipe and did not say anything or the design cycle at grizz is super fast. Either way, the market positioning of this jointer is rather timely. Either way, this deserves some kudos.

3). Clearly non of us can say anything until we get our grubby fingers onto one for the final test of jointing. But if this thing can hold its own against a DJ-20, I personally would pursue it with vigor. And it has a 3 HP motor. That sounds sweet.

So I am itching to see what shows up. We may be in for the changing of the guard!!!!! Out with the gray and in with the green/white.

[David LaRue]

Dev,

If I recall correctly Papa Griz made a off comment about something "interesting" comming up (re: jointer) a bit ago on that other forum. Do note that magazines & circulars take a bit of lead time. So this was likely in the works for a while. Once Griz is ready to sell he will likely update his website.

[Rick de Roque]

Holly Cow was this fast! It was just the other day we where having the debate of the century over the FWW jointer tests and the grizzly versus DJ debate. And now, it sounds like grizzly has a competitor to the DJ-20 ready to go in the chutes.

1). I am just dying to get a picture of this machine. Anyone out there got some photos for posting?

2). Either papa grizz had this in the pipe and did not say anything or the design cycle at grizz is super fast. Either way, the market positioning of this jointer is rather timely. Either way, this deserves some kudos.

3). Clearly non of us can say anything until we get our grubby fingers onto one for the final test of jointing. But if this thing can hold its own against a DJ-20, I personally would pursue it with vigor. And it has a 3 HP motor. That sounds sweet.

So I am itching to see what shows up. We may be in for the changing of the guard!!!!! Out with the gray and in with the green/white.
Dev, tell me its not true. You may be coming over to the dark side.:D You might be warming up to the big green griz? :D

Rick

[Scott Coffelt]

I knew there was a reason I wa waiting for a new jointer. If the price holds true, it will definietely be in the stable some time next year.

[Art Mulder]

1). I am just dying to get a picture of this machine. Anyone out there got some photos for posting?
Did some googling, but couldn't find one. But this may be of interest to you ...

Up here in Canada, there has been a DJ-20 clone on the market for about a year now. It is the KC-80FX from King Canada and you can see it here: http://www.kingcanada.com/Products.htm?CD=113&ID=918

It can be had for about $CA 995 (so about US$835). I have not had any personal experience with it, but on the two Canadian WW'ing forums it has received a number of positive reviews. But I don't know if anyone has done a really careful side-by-side comparison of the units. (table length, fence quality, motor, casting quality, etc etc)

Odds are the Grizzly unit would be coming out of the same overseas factory as this King unit. But who knows what they do differently from King.

...art
(who is itching to get his own 6" Delta x5 out of the box, but first he has to finish building the closet so he can move stuff out of the shop to make room for the jointer...)

[Charles Harper]

I too remember Shiraz hinting about a new jointer to compete with the DJ-20. I am looking at getting an 8" model in late spring/early Summer, so I was wondering when it would become available. I went up to Grizzly's Bellingham, WA location a few weeks back and was impressed with the G0500 and other models, so I am looking primarily at them for my new unit, especially when considering cost.

[Dev Emch]

I too remember Shiraz hinting about a new jointer to compete with the DJ-20. I am looking at getting an 8" model in late spring/early Summer, so I was wondering when it would become available. I went up to Grizzly's Bellingham, WA location a few weeks back and was impressed with the G0500 and other models, so I am looking primarily at them for my new unit, especially when considering cost.

Yes, I remember those remarks too, but they were a little tonque and cheek. He also mentioned that they would be discontinuing the super heavy, 8 inch parallogram jointer with the cast to the floor body and front mounted handwheels. To much money for an 8 in jointer. Papa Grizz has the 12 in one in his personal shop.

Now I did have a look at that King Canada version. Its a virtual clone of the DJ-20. The DJ-20 is the top end main stay of the home shop. Its not just any jointer but the jointer to de-thrown. So this will be worth the wait. If any of you are looking at the wedge bed grizz right now, I would consider dropping a dime on papa grizz support line to see whats up.

[Kevin Murdock]

Seems like there are a lot of tools coming out from Grizzly for the 2006 catalogue. New 10" jointer (new oliver-like base looking thing), bench top drum sander, the above mentioned 8" jointer, and more I'm sure.

I wonder when the 2006 catalogues will be shipped? It would be great if there was about a week overlap between then end of this year and having access to the catalogue.

That way one could make a decision between 2005 prices on current models and new 2006 models with photos a full specs on hand.

Wouldn't it be nice. :D

/Kevin

[Shiraz Balolia]

Here is a picture of that jointer. It has been in the works for almost a year and is now in production. We expect the first shipment to arrive at the end of February. You will be able to place orders for it after the first of the year when the computer gets updated with all new products.
Our 2006 catalog is due to land on doorsteps the first week of January (in 2 weeks). Many surprises in this catalog!

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=27901&stc=1&d=1135125553

[Ed Bamba]

Shiraz,
What is the motor HP rating? I am fixing to pull the trigger on a very lightly used DJ20 X5(which looks surprisingly close to this new model). I'll be willing to wait if the price is right and I can use it on my 110V 20Amp circuit (no 220V available). Hope you can provide more details on this model.
Thanks, Ed

[Shiraz Balolia]

Shiraz,
What is the motor HP rating? I am fixing to pull the trigger on a very lightly used DJ20 X5(which looks surprisingly close to this new model). I'll be willing to wait if the price is right and I can use it on my 110V 20Amp circuit (no 220V available). Hope you can provide more details on this model.
Thanks, Ed

Ed - it's a 3 H.P. motor and strictly 220V, single phase. Sorry.

[Ed Bamba]

Thanks for the reply Shiraz. You can be certain that I will purchase from your company in the future, maybe not this model (but then again, maybe I will, should my situation change).
Take care, Ed

[Jim Dunn]

Sweeeeeet looking machine. Do I detect a built in mobile base for this jointer?

[Russ Massery]

I was getting ready to order the 0586 looks like I'll be waiting. Looks great,thanks Shiraz for giving us a peek(a very large one at that).;)

[Dev Emch]

Thanks Papa Grizz for the post.

After looking at the picture, all I can muster is animal sounds and assorted grunts. I think I must be related somehow to Tim Allen.

Looks like the reign of the 8 inch wedgebed is over. Now that is what, four parallelograms out there? The orig. DJ-20, the new powermatic, that one offered by King Canada and now this one offered by the grizz. All I can say is barring some real stupid issues by the other players, Delta has some real issues to think about!

This is great!

[Ed Bamba]

Thanks Papa Grizz for the post.

After looking at the picture, all I can muster is animal sounds and assorted grunts. I think I must be related somehow to Tim Allen.

Looks like the reign of the 8 inch wedgebed is over. Now that is what, four parallelograms out there? The orig. DJ-20, the new powermatic, that one offered by King Canada and now this one offered by the grizz. All I can say is barring some real stupid issues by the other players, Delta has some real issues to think about!

This is great!

Dev, don't forget about the Oasis Machinery J1008C - 8" Precision Heavy Duty Jointer, a DJ20 clone (http://www.toolmarts.com/product1412.html). Never saw one in person, but it looks strikingly similar to the DJ20, and cost about the same as this new Grizz model.

[Shiraz Balolia]

Dev - our goal is to try to give the customers the "flavors" they like. This machine should fill the void we had in the less than $1,000.00 parallelogram type jointer. I think it will be a neck to neck with the G0586 in sales due to the table design (same size infeed and outfeed on the G0586), which a lot of people like.

Paul - Dev said "I am just dying to get a picture of this machine. Anyone out there got some photos for posting?"

Kevin said "I wonder when the 2006 catalogs will be shipped?"

If you have a problem with questions being answered with specificity then perhaps you should take up your issue with the administrators of this site.

[Dev Emch]

Well, here is a chance to do some side by side shopping. Here is the current class of 8 inch parallalogram jointers that are a direct threat to the DJ-20. As you can see, there are many similarities to the DJ-20 but if you look closely, you can see some changes.

What is interesting however is the main body casting. Look very closely. It appears that the King Canada, Oasis and Grizzly all use the same main body casting. The grizzly seams to have a different rebate ledger and the power pod. Also, the grizzly has a 3 HP motor so they seam to be motoring up this model of jointer. I would also be interested in seeing what cutter head options show up as well.

Now the powermatic does have its own unique main body casting and this casting seams to be made to fit the powermatic base.

Now to check my composite against the DJ-20 to see if there are any other differences.:D

[Dev Emch]

No, I take that back. The rebate ledgers of the three do appear to be the same after all. Sorry about that.

[Dev Emch]

Oh Boy! Looks like we have some inbreeding going here. Here is my latest image analysis on the current crop of DJ-20 clones including an actual DJ-20 at the bottom.

So in looking at the base casting, I compared the recesses, the protrusions, the slopes on the protrusions, the location and style of adjustment levers, the location of bolt holes and other machined items, and I can say with a high degree of certainty that the King Canada, Grizzly and Oasis jointers are using the same base casting as the Detal DJ-20. HOLLY COW! Now this may only be coincidence and getting the base castings onto a digital measuring machine may prove me very wrong. But I challenge you guys to take the pepsi challange here.

What does this mean? Well, again, a final assessment is always dependent on the grubby finger test. Short of performing the grubby finger test, I would not be surprised if these jointers came from the same factory and that someone may be issuing OEM subcontracts.:D If that is the case, then the prudent consumer should seek the best option at the best price.

At this point in the game, I think that Delta, Grizzly, King and Oasis have some explaining to do. We as consumers deserve this and after all, we are wise consumers and not stupid consumers. Honesty is always the best policy.

So until someone can prove to me otherwise, my tenative conclusion is that the new grizzly parallogram jointer is a DJ-20 in sheeps clothing. Its more than a clone..... its a DJ-20 sporting a green and white paint job. So until I can prove otherwise with the grubby finger test, I would seriously pursue a deal on the grizzly.

Gee, did I say that? Hey, take a grizzly, strip the paint down and paint it grey and attach some delta placards. No one will know the difference. But being an oliver person, I am inclined to keep the green and white.

[tod evans]

hummmmmmmm, different paint????? tod

[Art Mulder]

Oh Boy! Looks like we have some inbreeding going here. Here is my latest image analysis on the current crop of DJ-20 clones including an actual DJ-20 at the bottom.

...
What does this mean? Well, again, a final assessment is always dependent on the grubby finger test. Short of performing the grubby finger test, I would not be surprised if these jointers came from the same factory and that someone may be issuing OEM subcontracts.:D If that is the case, then the prudent consumer should seek the best option at the best price.

Dev,

FYI, I went digging through the archives of the Canadian Woodworking web forum and found a posting that I remembered.
http://www.canadianwoodworking.com/cgi-bin/chatarch/webbbs_config.pl?noframes;read=174032
This fellow got a chance at a woodworking show to have a good hard look at the KingCanada jointer and compare it to the Delta DJ-20.

Here are some excerpts, FYI: (prices quoted are CDN dollars, Right now figure 84% exchange)


I bought the King when it first came out. In those days Delta was still asking $2100 for the DJ-20 and the King was $1400 or so. At the time I wanted to know what the difference was and why the Delta was worth $700 more? I asked the King rep (a real rep not a store sales guy). He claimed the machines come off the same assembly line and the only difference was the motor. A more telling answer came from the Delta rep (again, a real Delta rep). I asked him what made the Delta worth $700 more? His answer was that other than motor being a better quality: nothing! He went on to tell me about the design patent having lapsed and how he thought Delta was going to be hurt by King. Sure enough within a few months the Delta was selling for $1500.

...
Castings: Appear to be identical. ... Fit and finish: The outward appearance of the Deltas e.g. paint and smoothness of the castings was superior to the Kings. ... Motor: The King comes with a non-descript 2HP motor. ... Electrical: The King comes with a Mag. switch which is nice. ... Fence: The fence on mine is flat and square to the tables. The 90 degree detent, however, is not repeatable. ... In the end, other than some cosmetic issues, I think it is pretty much a wash. That is unless there are actual differences in the manufacturing and QA tolerances. But I don't know if there are.