Sharpening Mortise Chisels

[Thomas McCurnin]

In advance of a hand tool joinery class, I will be expected to use and sharpen chisels.

No problem with bench chisels, I have taken a sharpening class and bench chisels fit nicely into my Veritas MKII honing guide.

But to my surprise, a mortise chisel is too thick to fit into the MKII. So I got out my old school silver single wheel honing guide, you know the one with the notches for the sides of chisels. But those notches get in the way of the thick sides of a mortise chisel. I saw a video on how to file those sides down to accommodate a mortise chisel, but I am reluctant to do that, when a good commercial version might be out there.

I have briefly looked at Richard Kell's honing guide and I think it is the number 3 that might work, but before I plop down $80 for this rascal which will not be used as much as the MKII guide, I wanted some opinions here.

Oh, two last points--First, I am not terribly good at free handing chisels and planes edges. They often end up un-square, and the mortise chisel is so long and so heavy that free handing that monster on a water stone did not work very well. Second, I do not own mechanical sharpeners, like a Tormek, and $800-$1,200 for one seems a little much for me. So I think I need a honing guide.

Thanks in advance for all who respond.

[Tom M King]

They should fit all the way down inside the Eclipse type guide.

[Prashun Patel]

Veritas makes a thick blade shim for the MK2 that allows you to sharpen a mortise chisel.

[steven c newman]

It isn't so much the "thickness" of the chisel.....Mortise chisels are a trapezoid Shape...to keep them from getting stuck in the mortise.....They are thicker along the "back" of the blade, than the bevel side "top" . Since a jig holds a chisel bevel down....it is like squeezing a wedge back out.
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And this type of guide will NOT securely hold such a chisel.....chisel shown was by freehand....guide was tossed away.

[Hilton Ralphs]

Veritas makes a thick blade shim for the MK2 that allows you to sharpen a mortise chisel.


It's for the Narrow Blade Honing Guide so he'll have to get this as well.

[Derek Cohen]

Thomas, all honing guides suck at holding tapered mortice chisels. I have the Kell #2, which is likely the one you were thinking of, and I dislike it intensely. It has no where to grip to push and ends up being cumbersome.

https://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Sharpening/Wixeyangleonmortice1.jpg

The best of the bunch is the Veritas Mk II with small blade accessory. I lined the jaws with sandpaper as non-slip, and this works.

https://i.postimg.cc/kXjdpQj0/Guide8-zpszywu2mor.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/Y91HnTVR/Guide7-zps7xuu8eo3.jpg

My preference is to freehand sharpen all my chisels, including the mortice chisels. Western chisels are hollow ground, Japanese chisels are honed on the flat, while mortice chisels receive a rounded secondary bevel. This is easy to do at 35 degrees (you get the feel for it after a while). When starting out, use this angle guide.

https://i.postimg.cc/QMMbfyw5/813b297c-6daf-4708-baad-279e19ce4d58-zpshjiiywbe.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/ZRBLSyT5/mortice-guide2-zpsmrald6b3.jpg

The rounded bevel is from Paul Sellers....

https://i.postimg.cc/rpY9392H/Honingmorticechisel1-zpsad015f6a.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[William Fretwell]

Not sure why the above picture shows the blade being dragged backwards. Barr Quarton’s method for his chisels is to push at the correct angle by hand then gradually drop the chisel to put a rounded bevel on it. Chisels, plane blades etc are all push sharpened.

[Derek Cohen]

William, one can push or pull. It works out the same. When Paul Sellers demos this method, he pulls ... hence the diagram.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Not sure why the above picture shows the blade being dragged backwards. Barr Quarton’s method for his chisels is to push at the correct angle by hand then gradually drop the chisel to put a rounded bevel on it. Chisels, plane blades etc are all push sharpened.

What do you use to sharpen? I almost never push sharpen on my water stones, strops, or sandpaper because I sometimes damage the media. I usually push sharpen on my Arkansas stones and diamond stones (because I do not damage the media if I mess up a bit).

[Andrew Pitonyak]

My preference is to freehand sharpen all my chisels, including the mortice chisels. Western chisels are hollow ground, Japanese chisels are honed on the flat, while mortice chisels receive a rounded secondary bevel. This is easy to do at 35 degrees (you get the feel for it after a while). When starting out, use this angle guide.

https://i.postimg.cc/QMMbfyw5/813b297c-6daf-4708-baad-279e19ce4d58-zpshjiiywbe.jpg


If you have nothing else, it is amazing how much a simple angle guide will help you sharpen (as shown in the picture above). I have seen people actually slide the angle guide over the media as they sharpen. I recommend against that. Instead, use it to set your angle then free hand. I even do this with pocket knives using these angle guides

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07NF1RYXV/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[chris carter]

I would argue that if there is one kind of a chisel where a guide is absolutely not needed regardless of freehand sharpening experience or skill, it's the mortise chisel. The bevel is so absolutely enormous that getting registration in -20 degree weather with numb hands, a blindfold, and half drunk is a piece of cake. Just press down on the back of the bevel and drag (and a couple swipes on the back). And if for some reason you get slightly off, well a mortise chisel is not exactly a precision instrument. It truly is the ideal first tool to practice freehand sharpening with because it's virtually impossible to mess up.

[Warren Mickley]

Hand joinery is about learning skills. I think it is a very small thing to learn to sharpen a mortise chisel freehand, compared to learning joinery. I cannot imagine wanting to teach someone joinery who throws up his hands at such a minor obstacle. Set aside a few minutes a day and work with your mortise chisel and work on your concentration. Hold the handle of the chisel in your right hand and apply pressure near the bevel with left hand fingers. Try not to wear a groove in the stone.

It is a lot easier if you sharpen a full flat bevel rather than have a secondary bevel. This works better for mortising also.

[mike stenson]

Chisels, plane blades etc are all push sharpened.

Yours are, mine aren't. The steel does not care one iota.

[William Fretwell]

I find setting the cutting angle much easier on the push stroke.

[William Fretwell]

Not having a microscope I push on stones and pull on strops. Pulling on a stone can leave a burr which will be carried to the next stone, I prefer to leave it behind on the first stone.

[Prashun Patel]

The mortise chisel is IMHO the easiest of the blades to free hand. It's 'more square' than bench chisels, so it's easy to keep it flat through the stroke - if if not hollow ground.

[Jim Koepke]

Chisels, plane blades etc are all push sharpened.

Have you ever tried to push sharpen with the 'scary sharp' method?

For what it is worth, my sharpening is mostly push and pull.

jtk

[Flamone LaChaud]

For the OP, couldn't he perhaps take a block of wood like Derek has in his picture set for the proper bevel angle, epoxy a strip of hdpe on the bottom of the block of wood, cut out a groove that will just allow the mortise chisel to sit down square, and use that to slide along on his waterstones to be a sharpening aid?

[Jim Koepke]

For the OP, couldn't he perhaps take a block of wood like Derek has in his picture set for the proper bevel angle, epoxy a strip of hdpe on the bottom of the block of wood, cut out a groove that will just allow the mortise chisel to sit down square, and use that to slide along on his waterstones to be a sharpening aid?

One could also make such a block to go along the side of their stone using a side to side motion to sharpen a chisel.

The first step in learning to sharpen freehand is to accept that it can be learned.

jtk

[William Fretwell]

Had to Google that Jim; no never used sandpaper to sharpen real tools, removing sharp edges,yes.

[Rafael Herrera]

Thomas, I started out with honing guides and with a little bit of practice I learned how to freehand sharpen my chisels and plane blades. I figured that it would be absurd, for me, to shell out $1000 for a sharpening tool. I also switched to natural oilstones, I got tired of flattening my waterstones after every use. Coincidentally, just last week I purchased a few vintage mortising chisels, after re-establishing a new bevel using the bench grinder I finished them off on my Washita stone. On a side note, I just got in the mail a gorgeous Welsh slate stone, it's very dense, but not very hard. I'm looking forward to test it in the workshop. Rafael

[Flamone LaChaud]

I have one of those too . . . does an excellent job as a finishing stone imho.

[Rafael Herrera]

I have one of those too . . . does an excellent job as a finishing stone imho.

Flamone, do you use it with water or oil?

[Flamone LaChaud]

Water, because I use it after my waterstones. It will produce a slurry somewhat easily.

[mike stenson]

Water, because I use it after my waterstones. It will produce a slurry somewhat easily.

What's your final water stone?

[Flamone LaChaud]

5k Nainwa super stone . . . but please, back to the regularly scheduled programming.

[david charlesworth]

Derek,

You need the larger wheels for your Kell no 2, check his site or Workshop Heaven..

Better still use the 2 over a slot in 1/4" Perspex. The jig now thinks it has even bigger wheels!

This set up produces sensible blade projection.

On another tack, I place mortice chisels on the bars of the Eclipse or knockoff guide.

The advantage of the 2 is that it has "Training wheels" which are very good at creating squareness.

Best wishes,
David

[Derek Cohen]

David, as soon as I saw your name, I knew you were going to mention this! :)

That is an old photo. I do have the large wheels. In fact, I was possibly one of the first to convert ... hoping it would improve matters. Richard makes a beautifully machined product. I just do not think the design is thought through enough.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[david charlesworth]

Derek,

Sorry to be so predictable ~;-)#

David

[Tom M King]

On another tack, I place mortice chisels on the bars of the Eclipse or knockoff guide.

Best wishes,
David

That's what I meant by "all the way down inside the Eclipse jig". It holds my Ulmia's just fine like that, and they don't have parallel sides either.

[Rob Luter]

My mortise chisels are the tools I feel most comfortable sharpening freehand. They are pretty forgiving. After all, you beat on them with a mallet. If the bevel is off by a degree or two it doesn’t matter. My paring chisel is a different story.

[Jim Matthews]

Barr Quarton’s method for his chisels is to push at the correct angle by hand then gradually drop the chisel to put a rounded bevel on it. Chisels, plane blades etc are all push sharpened.

That's the way I was taught. It's something like scooping ice cream. Works fine, with softer O1 steel I favor.

It takes forever with modern sintered steel.