The Incredible Woodmaster CT

[John TenEyck]

On the left is a 10" wide piece of walnut that I face jointed. On the right is a veneer slice from the same board manually cut with a Woodmaster CT 1" x 1.3 tpi on my 17" BS.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ROU4IRVi0yee7qIdBKl4ktShsWSbvTmDjHmkCwtEhq5THee5ZI h_pkVYygeDIcxrHbr93FD5dW_wr0--OTugMThRbd7zM3bBkTo3vb8s9JKDHzw4c1KxcT_dJb2cPl84Fv bhoziDXTutRMSZ2cpEwWKzLq6NyRPQyJNxBYZQiO0AOeD0MwN3 0CucCjcaF3BEgmoKbHgVD94FzRLe6TixTRewP3LFHOZJVtPMB4 fD8R0i74taom4578QsF4kvSLZuCuYbsqHq0RyeuXOI9ju7oHii zzaux0Y1-C_KIvB8Lta1XIxklPXKLjJTAGHth2VIoPIenjUZ7lDLcFwL4wA 3BGAsjI2k89K7kTO_cfy_w64NmiWvmWMf-Tfih8EiWSUAgh0Qa5IMF9EAKrIc8OX3X9zmpwA5CBtKBYrQr9N FzdQ49xw6VaA-SVeBNg1tFbFSh-pW7M_xeRKOjb652YdApn7_qu1XeNluxpkzd8iDaNUz1LiuAL0X lS-Qrz0XTLILMGi6mYSs2I-VZrdwR8Ga6V8Kt0kvQLuFEAQEHIbo5UPZUbzKcl33GYlpoDIEw 82QabVC7NFQF2oKcMRHI5NEQVQR20CeFEiVg-sEzRmo5f66Jvsyblqy4EvPOn4YXBJLvVX_BhEJt_xvOLRBr_am rzJBooiYwS67ow2LUKcP_yh0Eoey62pqLTr10prUy-KSgTrAjfPB_O68skNEBWmw7UiU8-qwWsZVMAMBpoTcF0w0nl00Kg=w1006-h566-no


I know several of you get tired of me saying this but I well anyway. Blade tension was about 25 ksi. Deviation in the veneer thickness was less than 0.005" over the 4' length.

Some folks favor the Tri-Master, but I just can't believe the cut quality can be much better than the CT and the CT costs about $75 less. Maybe the Tri-Master lasts longer since it has more teeth, reducing the difference in $/ft^2 cut; don't know.

John

[John K Jordan]

I see this instead of a photo:

426443

[John TenEyck]

Maybe now?

John

[Jamie Buxton]

What is your saw? And what are the guides?

[David Eisenhauer]

Nice veneer slice from that CT blade John.

[John TenEyck]

What is your saw? And what are the guides?

Grizzly G0636X; 5 HP, 4500 fpm. Stock roller bearing guides. I set them per the manual but really don't think they play any role in this.

John

[Mark Hennebury]

Looks amazing, I will have to order one to try. Thanks.

[Jared Sankovich]

+1 on the woodmaster ct 1.3

This was a off cut where i was not concerned with cut quality I was just hogging off material as fast as I could reasonably push the stock through the blade.

426459

[Tom Trees]

Wow, that is Just incredible John!
That's quite the brick outhouse of a machine weighing the same as my 24" .

Out of curiosity how good of a cut can you achieve on that saw using a regular blade?I

[John TenEyck]

Yeah, it's a very robust saw. Had quite an adventure getting it down the stairs into my basement shop. Never coming back out!

The cut quality from the Woodmaster C blades I use when not using the CT is not quite as consistent and definitely not as smooth. To help improve the smoothness I normally use a 2 tpi version. It's very curious, the CT blades are not affected by changes in wood grain, etc. like the C's are. The CT cuts at a constant pace and the sound doesn't change unless you hit a knot. With the C blades the pace varies even though I'm trying to keep it constant, and the sound changes with the pace. It sometimes gets a harmonic, for lack of a better term, and the cut quality is always rougher when that happens. Still, I have sliced a lot of veneer with 2 tpi Woodmaster C blades and can get 1/16" (0.063") after drum sanding if the slices are about 0.105". With the CT I can easily drop down to 0.085 - 0.090" and probably less if I tried. Sometimes that gives me an extra slice out of a board, but the real advantage is in less time at the drum sander, or not even having to drum sand it before vacuum bagging it onto a substrate.

John

[David Kumm]

That is a well tuned saw, a well matched blade, and the tension sweet spot. I run a Trimaster but only because i found several for half price. You can't do better than what you have. Thanks for the pics. Dave

[John K Jordan]

Maybe now?

John

Yes, I can see the picture now. Very smooth cut.

I have a couple of Tri-iMaster, but they are 1/2"x3tpi. The cut is pretty smooth on my 18" Rikon but not that smooth.

What is Ksi? Does it mean 1000 psi? I set the 1/2" Tri-Master for less than 20,000 psi. Do you think I should use higher tension? I have a Starrett tension gauge.

JKJ

[Tom M King]

There always seems to be a lot of questions about guides. Once you have one of these, and a saw that will tension it, the guides don't matter much. It not only cuts smoothly, but so fast that it seems like it's a different type of machine, after using a 14" saw.

[Edwin Santos]

There always seems to be a lot of questions about guides. Once you have one of these, and a saw that will tension it, the guides don't matter much. It not only cuts smoothly, but so fast that it seems like it's a different type of machine, after using a 14" saw.

I'm going to guess the thrust bearing is not being engaged much with a wide blade at high tension like that.

I have wondered why Lenox offers that blade in both a 1.3 and a 2tpi.
I have the 2tpi. Other than feed rate, what might I gain with a 1.3tpi?

[Jim Becker]

John, that's an impressive cut. You've sold me for sure!

[John TenEyck]

Yes, I can see the picture now. Very smooth cut.

I have a couple of Tri-iMaster, but they are 1/2"x3tpi. The cut is pretty smooth on my 18" Rikon but not that smooth.

What is Ksi? Does it mean 1000 psi? I set the 1/2" Tri-Master for less than 20,000 psi. Do you think I should use higher tension? I have a Starrett tension gauge.

JKJ


Yes, ksi = 1000 psi. You can try higher tension on that blade, no harm in finding out if it will cut better. But I think the biggest improvement would come by going to a wider blade. If your saw can tension a 3/4 or 1" wide blade that will likely give you a demonstrably smoother cut. I've had some very smooth cuts on my 14" Delta with riser in 10" stock, but the margin for error is far less than on my big saw with a blade twice as wide at twice the tension.

Let me make a futher comment about tension. I tension blades around 25 ksi, and then while the guides are wide open I check to make sure there's no flutter. If there is, I turn the tension up or down to eliminate it. Flutter is the enemy of smooth cuts.

John

[John TenEyck]

I'm going to guess the thrust bearing is not being engaged much with a wide blade at high tension like that.

I have wondered why Lenox offers that blade in both a 1.3 and a 2tpi.
I have the 2tpi. Other than feed rate, what might I gain with a 1.3tpi?


More money in your pocket! I suspect that the 1.3 tpi blade will cut more smoothly in really thick stock because it will clear the sawdust better. On the other hand, the 2 tpi blade will likely last longer because more teeth are sharing the work.

Cut smoothness is controlled by so many things it's amazing to me that it's possible to get cuts as smooth as what I showed in the picture. If the weld is off just a little, or a single tooth is set just a little too much, or the blade isn't running perfectly true on the wheels, and probably 6 other things I can't think of, then there will be defects in cut quality.

[David Kumm]

John is spot on. Hand feeding is also a huge variable in smooth cuts. I tension at 25K but if the stock is wide or hard, I will crank up to reduce spinning of the back bearing. Avoiding that bearing and the heat it generates makes my carbide blades last much longer than they used to. At least I think that is the reason as I'm as clumsy as ever. Dave

[John K Jordan]

Yes, ksi = 1000 psi. You can try higher tension on that blade, no harm in finding out if it will cut better. But I think the biggest improvement would come by going to a wider blade. If your saw can tension a 3/4 or 1" wide blade that will likely give you a demonstrably smoother cut. I've had some very smooth cuts on my 14" Delta with riser in 10" stock, but the margin for error is far less than on my big saw with a blade twice as wide at twice the tension.

Let me make a futher comment about tension. I tension blades around 25 ksi, and then while the guides are wide open I check to make sure there's no flutter. If there is, I turn the tension up or down to eliminate it. Flutter is the enemy of smooth cuts.

John

Thanks, I'll try cranking it up.

BTW, one of my Tri-Master carbide blades broke but it was at the weld and I don't think from over tensioning. The local bandsaw blade shop rewelded it and it seems fine.

I do almost no resawing for veneer and such but mostly processing wood into turning blanks for drying. A smooth cut doesn't matter so much for that but long blade life does. So far I've resharpened the Lenox flexback 1/2x3 tpi steel blade I'm using now three times and will probably sharpen again before my next bandsaw class a week from today.

JKJ

[Josko Catipovic]

Guys, what kind/caliber of a machine does it take to fully take advantage of such a blade? I'm setting up a dedicated resaw bandsaw and wonder if i could feel a significant difference between a Laguna 18BX and Lasguna LT18 HD when resawing, say, 12" white oak? Thanks in advance.

[Mick Simon]

I get similar results from mine. I need to make a tension gauge, though. I'm tensioning to a little more than the indicated tension on the gauge on my S500P (mm20).

426655

[John K Jordan]

I get similar results from mine. I need to make a tension gauge, though. I'm tensioning to a little more than the indicated tension on the gauge on my S500P (mm20).

426655

I don't know what the indicator is like on that saw but others I've checked were way off. For example, to get proper tension on the 1/2"x3tpi blades I use for green wood I the indicator needle has to point to the mark for 1" blades.

If you don't want to make one, Iturra Design sells a good tension gage a lot cheaper than the others. Or if you know someone who has one, maybe borrow it use it once to set the blade and make not of the indicator position. I make a mark on the indicator scale.

JKJ

[John TenEyck]

Guys, what kind/caliber of a machine does it take to fully take advantage of such a blade? I'm setting up a dedicated resaw bandsaw and wonder if i could feel a significant difference between a Laguna 18BX and Lasguna LT18 HD when resawing, say, 12" white oak? Thanks in advance.

One that can apply something close to 25 ksi on a 1" or wider blade. Ask Laguna for data. I they won't give you any, then maybe a couple of members here with those saws will offer to measure the tension. If there are any stores near you that carry one or both of those saws then maybe you can go there and measure the tension yourself.

I suspect the LT18 HD will do it w/o a problem. No knowledge of the 18BX. I can tell you with certainly that the Grizzly G0636X can.

Do you really need a 1" blade? Of course not; a 3/4" blade will cut pretty well and less robust saws can often tension those OK. But you said you are setting up a dedicated resaw bandsaw, in which case I would want at least a 1" blade; 1-1/4" would be even better if the saw will handle it. And the 1.3 tpi Woodmaster CT only comes in 1" or wider blades.

John

[John TenEyck]

When I set the tension to give me about 25 ksi on a 1" blade the tension indicator on the saw is within a pointer width of the 1" mark with amazing repeatability. The only way to know for sure is to use a tension meter. After you have "calibrated" the saw for that blade type you can use the pointer.

As a follow up on how smooth the Woodmaster CT cuts I started drum sanding those pieces today. I had cut them at 0.110", consistent with what I had been doing with the Woodmaster C blades I've been using. Most of the veneer sheets were smooth after one pass through the drum sander and all of them were after two. The thickness after two passes on both sides was about 0.100". Wow. I'm quite sure I can cut them at 0.080" in the future and end up at 0.063" after sanding.

John

[Wakahisa Shinta]

Nice! I have one in a box to be installed on a Felder FB710 that I am tinkering with at the moment to dial out some vibration. Thanks for posting!