Shop Dust Collection? PICS

[Steve Mathews]

I finally decided to install rigid dust collection ducts after experiencing the hassle of moving flexible hoses from machine to machine. I looked at PVC, galvanized steel duct both spiral and smooth wall and the Nordfab stuff. The Nordfab system is appealing but the advantages don't seem to outweigh the cost savings and availability using ordinary galv. steel duct. My installation would be fairly simple involving two straight runs in an L shape with three drop downs; one to a lathe, another to a jointer and planer and the last in the run to a tablesaw with table mounted router and separate shaper. My Powermatic 2hp dust collector might be too small for the task but I was hoping to use it until being able to afford something more powerful. I thought a good place to position it might be a small space at the end of a mezzanine, which is at one end of one duct run. The outlet would be very close to the elevation of the duct runs. The duct run with two drop downs would be along the wall where most of the machines are located. A good place to run it might be wedged between the rafter ties and joists. Attached are a couple of pics of the areas mentioned. Any comments or suggestions? Sorry for the clutter and disorganized mess in the shop. This is something I know needs to be improved.
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[Justin Rapp]

I have no better idea's for your dust collection, but I sure would love to have that space!

[Steve Mathews]

Thanks Justin!

I just priced out a rough layout using Nordfab and it came out to $1388 as opposed to $279 using locally available spiral duct. The estimate is not complete but the comparison involves the same material. The Nordfab pipe is 22 gauge while the spiral is 26 gauge. Besides being a more stout material the Nordfab should be easier to install and adapt to future changes. However it's difficult to justify the significant increase in cost of Nordfab.

[Jim Becker]

If I ever got a new shop, I'd probably use spiral for the guts of the duct work with quality wyes and only employ Nordfab (or magnetic connections) for any machine connections/drops that might be disconnected with some level of frequency. I use Nordfab quick disconnects for my CNC, router table and drum sander, for example. I use a rubber Fernco boot for that purpose on my J/P. I'm not a fan of PVC/ABS for dust collection but certainly appreciate its appeal for cost and availability for many folks. I certainly wouldn't want it for the CNC, however, because even the most minor incident of static electricity can seriously affect the machine.

Nice space, by the way!

[Justin Rapp]

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Thanks Justin!

I just priced out a rough layout using Nordfab and it came out to $1388 as opposed to $279 using locally available spiral duct. The estimate is not complete but the comparison involves the same material. The Nordfab pipe is 22 gauge while the spiral is 26 gauge. Besides being a more stout material the Nordfab should be easier to install and adapt to future changes. However it's difficult to justify the significant increase in cost of Nordfab.

That is a big cost difference and if you are not running a 10hp dust collector, i'd say 26g duct would be pretty good. People even use 30g with lower hp collectors. I am going on a guess but i would bet the number of collapsed 30G with a 2 or 3 hp collector is low, let alone a 26g.

[Steve Mathews]

If I ever got a new shop, I'd probably use spiral for the guts of the duct work with quality wyes and only employ Nordfab (or magnetic connections) for any machine connections/drops that might be disconnected with some level of frequency. I use Nordfab quick disconnects for my CNC, router table and drum sander, for example. I use a rubber Fernco boot for that purpose on my J/P. I'm not a fan of PVC/ABS for dust collection but certainly appreciate its appeal for cost and availability for many folks. I certainly wouldn't want it for the CNC, however, because even the most minor incident of static electricity can seriously affect the machine.

Nice space, by the way!

What makes a quality wye or other fitting for use with spiral duct?

Thanks for the heads up on the magnetic type of connection. I didn't know they exist.

[Steve Mathews]

This may be a dumb question but is there a correct way of joining spiral pipe? In other words, should the female end of the connection be upstream to reduce the amount of obstruction in the duct? Or doesn't it make a difference?

Edit: After doing a little more online research it seems that all spiral pipe ends are female and fittings male. So I gather from this that my above concern is moot.

[Andrew More]

I've got 6" 26 guage HVAC duct feeding my 1 1/2 HP cyclone. I have not noticed any signs of it being crushed by the vacuum. If you have any doubts about it, try crushing some with your hands. I guarantee you can put more pressure on it than a system that might be able to achieve 10"-12" of static pressure.

[Mark e Kessler]

The fittings to use with spiral are mades for spiral, you should be able to get some from your local hvac supply, you can also buy them from https://blastgateco.com/Spiral-Pipe-Fittings.php


What makes a quality wye or other fitting for use with spiral duct?

Thanks for the heads up on the magnetic type of connection. I didn't know they exist.

[Mark e Kessler]

yes is pricey, i just priced my small system for 7” main, branches and drops and between buying from three different sources best I could get was like $5500, then thinking that the most that changes are the location of machines so doing the main, branches with spiral and drops nordfab i came up with $350 for spiral and $2300 for nordfab. All spiral is like $850.

Changes to spiral can be a pain, but I don’t think it’s worth 4 times the price. Also one thing I will do when I redo my current spiral which consists of under sized 6”, 5” ducting with a mix of mostly spiral fittings but some hvac crimped fitting is to uses all spiral fittings and layout the screw or rivet holes in the same place for all of it so when/if I need to reconfigure I dont end up with a million holes all over the place. Also btw silicon seal all the joints.





Thanks Justin!

I just priced out a rough layout using Nordfab and it came out to $1388 as opposed to $279 using locally available spiral duct. The estimate is not complete but the comparison involves the same material. The Nordfab pipe is 22 gauge while the spiral is 26 gauge. Besides being a more stout material the Nordfab should be easier to install and adapt to future changes. However it's difficult to justify the significant increase in cost of Nordfab.

[michael dilday]

Nice shop. I used the spiral duct from Rockler. Not sure how the price compares but it was pretty easy to work with and I have made changes pretty easily.

[Steve Mathews]

The fittings to use with spiral are mades for spiral, you should be able to get some from your local hvac supply, you can also buy them from https://blastgateco.com/Spiral-Pipe-Fittings.php

Thanks for the link to Blastgate. I plan to refine my material list today and apply their prices for both spiral and clamp together pipe. Their prices are the best I've seen so far. Hopefully their shipping costs are good too.

[Jim Becker]

I've got 6" 26 guage HVAC duct feeding my 1 1/2 HP cyclone. I have not noticed any signs of it being crushed by the vacuum.

26 gage snap-lock (often called stove pipe) is just fine for most DC systems that are used in a typical hobbyist type shop or even small pro shop. 30 gage HVAC duct is to be avoided. Spiral is a bit heavier than the stove pipe The challenge with HVAC/Stove type duct work is that the common fittings for wyes are "backwards" relative to air flow direction for DC applications.

[PHILIP MACHIN]

I went with PVC, but I only have a 10 foot run of 6 inch piping before I hit my equipment. The small advantages a small shop offers. The ducting cost me about 160$ all in due to fittings and blast gates and hose.

[Andrew More]

26 gage snap-lock (often called stove pipe) is just fine for most DC systems that are used in a typical hobbyist type shop or even small pro shop. 30 gage HVAC duct is to be avoided. Spiral is a bit heavier than the stove pipe The challenge with HVAC/Stove type duct work is that the common fittings for wyes are "backwards" relative to air flow direction for DC applications.

That hasn't been my experience with the fittings I've gotten from the local HVAC supply house. Instead they seem to be designed to be crimped in the field.

[Steve Mathews]

After refining my design and material list I come up with a new estimate of about $1800 using Blastgate's clamp together pipe and $800 using their spiral pipe. I'm almost tempted to go the clamp together route providing shipping isn't too expensive. I'll see what they say when calling them for a quote tomorrow. There isn't much difference in the raw pipe cost. The fittings is where it adds up.

[Jim Becker]

That hasn't been my experience with the fittings I've gotten from the local HVAC supply house. Instead they seem to be designed to be crimped in the field.

I've only seen pre-crimped, but if you have uncrimped available, that's great. Just be sure to take care in sealing them up...one of the downsides to HVAC wyes is that many of them are just spot welded and need to be fully caulked/taped for "our" application. In a house, a little escaping heat or cool air isn't a terrible thing, but in dust collection, you want no leaks if you can help it.

[Andrew More]

I've only seen pre-crimped, but if you have uncrimped available, that's great. Just be sure to take care in sealing them up...one of the downsides to HVAC wyes is that many of them are just spot welded and need to be fully caulked/taped for "our" application. In a house, a little escaping heat or cool air isn't a terrible thing, but in dust collection, you want no leaks if you can help it.

Also not a problem, I painted mastic on all the joints on my ducts. In my case I was able to do it with less than a bucket's worth, and a cheap brush.

[Ole Anderson]

2 hp Oneida Dust Gorilla here, all 26 gauge snap lock with standard fittings. 7" main. Never a collapse. Never really experienced a problem with the "backwards" wyes. If you do vertical drops, don't come out of the bottom of the main run, keep your wyes horizontal and use a bend to turn and run down the wall, otherwise all sorts of stuff will fall down the vertical pipe from tools further upstream. 1/8" x 1/8" pop rivets at the 4, 8 and 12:00 positions, with foil tape on the joints and silicone caulk on the bends. I see no reason to go all out with Norfab or spiral unless you have deep pockets.

[Mike Kees]

You might want to check out Spiralmfg.com they are in Minneapolis MN and make everything for dust collection fittings for spiral pipe. I purchased all my fittings from them and bought my pipe locally.

[Andrew Seemann]

I'll second Spiral Manufacturing. That is where I got my spiral pipe and fittings from. They are local to me, so I just drove to the shop/factory for my order. They were out of stock of one item when I was there, so they asked me if I had 15 minutes to wait. I said I did, and they made it for me then. It was still warm from forming when I got it.

I found the spiral pipe much easier to work with than the 26 gauge HVAC piping I got from Oneida. It cuts nicely with a sawzall, compared to trying to tinsnip the HVAC pipe. I would go with the spiral over the HVAC again for that reason alone, regardless of price.

[Steve Mathews]

After visiting a local high school and looking at their dust collection ductwork it may be that I'm making much ado about nothing in deciding which material to use. Their system, which has been in use for a number of years without any problems uses locally available spiral ducts with standard HVAC fittings. No particular attention was given to the orientation of the seams. In other words, some seams will result in a slight internal lip with respect to direction of air flow. The joints were simply fastened with sheet metal screws and not riveted. The seems were sealed with duct paste and not taped. I'll probably go that route except fasten everything together with rivets and possibly use tape to seal the joints. The material cost will actually be less than the shipping cost for the clamp together system. Sometimes I hate when I get so anal minded.

[Andrew More]

The seems were sealed with duct paste and not taped. I'll probably go that route except fasten everything together with rivets and possibly use tape to seal the joints.

They likely used mastic (https://www.homedepot.com/p/Master-Flow-Water-Based-Mastic-Half-Gallon-Tub-WBA50/100396973) which is super easy to apply. Just get a bucket, and a throw away brush and "paint" it on. The only advantage to tape is can be hard to get a brush into areas up against a wall, and it's a bit messy, wear gloves.

[Tom Dixon]

My shop is done completely with spiral pipe and fittinggs from http://blastgateco.com

[Bob Riefer]

My shop is done completely with spiral pipe and fittinggs from http://blastgateco.com

Woah. I literally quit woodworking right now after seeing this. I'm not worthy.

1 - nicely done

2 - do you have a full shop tour someplace?

3 - I'm good at sweeping floors and other no-skill-needed tasks... taking on any helpers? lol

[Steve Mathews]

My shop is done completely with spiral pipe and fittinggs from http://blastgateco.com

Nice work Tom! I really like the Blastgate spiral fittings but they're about 2 1/2 times the cost of the fittings available locally, shipping not included. I'll price everything out again and see what it comes up to buying the pipe locally and the fittings from Blastgate. If it's not too much more I might go that route. Thanks for reminding me of that option.