maple or birch or poplar for painted kitchen cabinets? durability and density...

[jeff piatt]

I realize this has been asked in many ways. what is the best wood for painted cabinets? the answers are varied and somewhat helpful. the 3 'real' wood options seem to be poplar, birch, and maple. I am not interested in mdf. my question though has to do with durability of the wood. am i right to assume that if cost is not an the major factor on a custom build kitchen, that maple seems the most durable wood regarding wood softness? it seems like poplar and birch may dent or show damage from kids or even normal use over time... am i thinking in the right direction or is there an even better option to minimize wood grain, get hardness factor for durability (of wood - not finish)?

[Mark Hockenberg]

Hi Jeff,

For painted cabinets, I prefer poplar. It has a tight grain and sands up super-smooth. I like the way it takes paint better than maple.

If the kids are hard on the cabinets, they will damage the finish before the wood, so having a harder species underneath may not help.

Cheers,
Mark

[Mel Fulks]

Agree with Mark. IF you can get poplar that is reasonably straight. Years back we had a good suplier that sent stuff
with a generous thickness and straight . They said their "secret" with poplar was letting it air dry some before useing kiln.
The former suplier was sending stuff that looked like fried bacon.

[Jared Sankovich]

I use poplar and maple. If its anything that gets even moderate usage I use soft maple. It just holds up better.

Mel, My supplier air drys their poplar for about 6 months iirc before kiln drying. Its straight as a arrow and doesn't move after processing. Relatively easy to consisently net 1" with this stock from rough. They also have QS poplar in 6/4, 7/4 and 8/4 for passage doors.

[jeff piatt]

thanks guys for the replies. as for durability, would you say that poplar is softer or harder than alder? I know, different altogether but I have worked with alder hickory and oak a bit but this will be a new one for me.

[John TenEyck]

Soft maple is about the best for painted cabinets. Poplar is too soft if dings/dents are a concern. Check out the Janke Hardness scale: https://www.bellforestproducts.com/info/janka-hardness/

John

I looked up Alder. The Janke is 590. Poplar is 540. Soft maple is 950.

[David Kumm]

I'm a maple guy. Not only harder but the extra weight gives doors a feeling that is more substantial. I use 1" rails and stiles for the same reason. Dave

[David Stone (CT)]

Another factor to consider among the three you name is whether evidence of wood pores visible through the paint is deemed a good or a bad thing. I recently built a set of kitchen cabinets for my house using birch for the doors and drawers, with General Finishes "milk paint" and High Performance as the coatings. Absent filling, the pores in birch are a subtle but perceptible presence in this application, which I really like. I also value that it's heavier and harder than poplar, which just feels a little light and soft and makes for a less satisfying thunk when you close a cabinet door. ...One thing with birch: if, like mine, your doors/drawer design calls for a flat 1/4 inch panel (rather than raised solid wood), resist the temptation to use MDF, as its absolute uniformity and lack of pores will be a noticeable contrast to the wood rails/stiles, even under paint. Baltic birch is the way to go.

[Tom Bain]

At the risk of being a little contrarian, here is the thing with kitchen cabinets ... they get remodeled. A lot of kitchen cabinetry only exists for 20 years or so before it gets swapped out for something new (although I’m sure some are around for longer). Any of the woods you mentioned will work well for painted cabinets, and the difference in hardness isn’t likely to make much difference. So choose the one you like, or the least expensive. :)

[Leo Graywacz]

Maple for several reasons. I make a living making cabinets. I use professional paints sprayed in a booth for my finishes. Both Poplar and Birch will have the grain telegraph through unless you do extra work, Birch more than Poplar. For me Poplar moves to much. When I first started out I did a lot of 18th century style cabinets which required hand planing. Poplar was hand planed a lot easier than the other two. Only Pine was easier to plane. I made almost exclusively inset cabinets. With Poplar doors I found myself coming back to the job to resize doors because they swelled and would stick in the openings.

Poplar is too soft for a kitchen cabinet. The uppers might be OK but the lowers would get dinged up in short time, especially if there are kids involve.

Birch has the grain telegraph issue but it certainly hard enough. It can be a bit chippy running it over the jointer or through the planer.

Hard Maple is the best choice if you have a wide belt sander, otherwise chipping can be an issue.

Soft Maple is my choice because it paints well, it's hard enough to survive kids, it doesn't move that much when you do inset doors, feels substantial because it's a bit heavy, for the most part it's not that chippy although you find boards that really have a tough time being planed or jointed. So that's my choice and reasoning.

[Patrick Walsh]

I’m also a cabinet maker.

I’m 100% verbatim on board with Leo.

I know lots of people who like poplar and I get why to a point. It’s much lore easy to work with. But it has its issues also. Soft maple is the middle of the road. I prefer hard even though it’s a royal pita unless you have a widebelt or helical head jointer and planer.


Maple for several reasons. I make a living making cabinets. I use professional paints sprayed in a booth for my finishes. Both Poplar and Birch will have the grain telegraph through unless you do extra work, Birch more than Poplar. For me Poplar moves to much. When I first started out I did a lot of 18th century style cabinets which required hand planing. Poplar was hand planed a lot easier than the other two. Only Pine was easier to plane. I made almost exclusively inset cabinets. With Poplar doors I found myself coming back to the job to resize doors because they swelled and would stick in the openings.

Poplar is too soft for a kitchen cabinet. The uppers might be OK but the lowers would get dinged up in short time, especially if there are kids involve.

Birch has the grain telegraph issue but it certainly hard enough. It can be a bit chippy running it over the jointer or through the planer.

Hard Maple is the best choice if you have a wide belt sander, otherwise chipping can be an issue.

Soft Maple is my choice because it paints well, it's hard enough to survive kids, it doesn't move that much when you do inset doors, feels substantial because it's a bit heavy, for the most part it's not that chippy although you find boards that really have a tough time being planed or jointed. So that's my choice and reasoning.

[Jim Becker]

There is no "best", but of the three you mention, I'd choose between Maple and Yellow Poplar (tulip poplar) in that order unless you're willing to embrace the more open grain of the birch or do the work to grain fill it. My cabinet face frames and rails/stiles are all poplar because I had an abundance of it milled on our property. But soft maple is very nicely priced in my area, too, so I'd probably select that if I didn't have inventory of poplar because it's a bit harder and is very nice to work with.

[David Zaret]

my plywood supplier has a new product, it's a birch UV prefinished on one side, and a primed paper face on the other - interior glue (unlike MDO), and perfect for painted casework. i think it's a Garnica product, and i don't know how widely available it is... but it'll absolutely be my choice for painted work in the near future.

[Prashun Patel]

+1 on maple, soft or hard. The minor pains in milling and working with it are precisely the reasons it works well for cabinets.

It also takes profiles super sharp that won't dull or roundover as you work through your sanding and painting.

[John TenEyck]

At the risk of being a little contrarian, here is the thing with kitchen cabinets ... they get remodeled. A lot of kitchen cabinetry only exists for 20 years or so before it gets swapped out for something new (although I’m sure some are around for longer). Any of the woods you mentioned will work well for painted cabinets, and the difference in hardness isn’t likely to make much difference. So choose the one you like, or the least expensive. :)

20 years is still a long time. Kids, dogs, my wife - they all take a toll on cabinetry.

John

[Andy D Jones]

20 years is still a long time. Kids, dogs, my wife - they all take a toll on cabinetry.

John

Oh, in other words, everyone but you is hard on the cabinetry? ;)

On the other hand, if you're the one who painstakingly built, finished and installed the cabinetry, then one might expect you to be more kind to your cabinetry.

Andy - Arlington TX

[Jared Sankovich]

Oh, in other words, everyone but you is hard on the cabinetry? ;)

On the other hand, if you're the one who painstakingly built, finished and installed the cabinetry, then one might expect you to be more kind to your cabinetry.

Andy - Arlington TX

I wouldn't expect anyone be overly kind with cabinets. The cost difference between poplar and maple on a kitchen worth of stock is negligible compared to how much more durable it is.

I've seen poplar shelf edging destroyed in a year or two from glasses dinging it in a house with no kids. Even a once a month ding from putting dishes away adds up over a year.

[Jim Becker]

my plywood supplier has a new product, it's a birch UV prefinished on one side, and a primed paper face on the other - interior glue (unlike MDO), and perfect for painted casework. i think it's a Garnica product, and i don't know how widely available it is... but it'll absolutely be my choice for painted work in the near future.
That sounds like a great solution for the sheet goods for painted cabinets!

[Amber Williams]

I like maple the best. We have painted maple cabinets being done right now for our kitchen renovation, actually! Although we're still deciding what color countertop to pair it with, thankfully we found a good guide from Caesarstone (in case you'd also like to read it, click here (https://www.caesarstoneus.com/blog/what-color-countertops-go-with-maple-cabinets/)). Wishing you the best no matter what you go with!

[Paul J Kelly]

I want to add Beech to the list.

Beech rails and stiles with an MDF panel paints amazingly well and holds up to a lot of use.

Painters like Beech, I have been told.

PK

[Rich Engelhardt]

Birch carcasses - poplar doors.

Maple is too pretty to cover up with paint.

[Mel Fulks]

Jared, thanks for putting a number on that air drying , much better than my “some” !

[Leo Graywacz]

I hate Poplar for doors. It's soft, it moves to much with the humidty, it doesn't paint well with pro paints (CV, Precat, paints well with a brush). Soft Maple doesn't really look good, colors are all over the place. Paints great, it's hard and the seasonal movement is more than half that of Poplar. The only thing Poplar has going for it is it is cheaper than Maple.

IMHO

[Cary Falk]

I vote for hard maple. If you put all that time and effort into them why wouldn't you want them as durable as possible. All the cabinet doors in my house, painted or stained are hard maple.

[John TenEyck]

You know from experience, Leo, no questions about that from me, but The Shrinkulator at Woodbin gives the following information for 2 stiles at 2.25" = 4.50" total, going from 5 to 10% moisture content.

Red Maple = 0.03" radial expansion, 0.06" tangential
Yellow Birch = 0.05" and 0.07"
Yellow Poplar = 0.03" and 0.06"

It doesn't seem like any of them would be a problem even with inset doors with a typical reveal.

John

[Leo Graywacz]

Don't care what the theory is. Real world has always been Poplar moves way more for me at least. In the beginning I used a lot of Poplar for doors and I always had to come back to shave something off. I've had just a couple with Maple and they were on bigger doors.

And .03" is a 32nd. You have two stiles and that a 16th and a pair of doors is an 1/8th. So it adds up quick because you don't get to expand on the hinge side of the door, just pushes outward.