Hollowing Systems

[ChrisA Edwards]

Who uses them and what are the Pro's and Cons?

Probably not in the market for one for a while, but these are something I came across on YouTube and have seen a few variants and would like to get feedback from those that have used them.

I've seen the following systems

Simon Hope system from the UK

Simple Hollow from Kerry Harrision

Lyle Jamieson System

Trent Bosch System

[Brice Rogers]

I enjoy making my own tools, so I made a variation of Captain Eddie Casteline's "snake hollower" using solid 1" square bar. I have a spare banjo, so I mounted the stationery end into the banjo. Alternatively I could have attached it to a plate bolted to my ways. I drilled the tool end of the hollower to accept the wide variety of 1/2" dia. tools that I had made or acquired. If I had to really reach deeply, I suppose that I could re-arrange the links or add a longer 1" square end piece. It works very well and was easy to use.

Typical pros and cons: Con: If you buy one, plane on spending $150 to 300. Pro: If you make one and have access to a metal yard, plan on spending around $40 in steel. Another pro: It works very well and was easy to use.

I suspect that all of the ones that you listed will do a decent job. The best? Hard to figure and perhaps it doesn't really matter all that much which one is #1 ?

[Richard Dooling]

I can't speak to the other systems but I have the Trent Bosch system and like it a lot. I like that it supports the tool but the tool is still on a handle as you would have in a freehand setup. It feels very natural while providing support against catches. Trent has been great to work with.

He offers a carbide option for the tips if you want it but I like to be able to sharpen the tips myself and can't see that as an option with the shape of the carbide.

I got the 3/4" stabilizer because you can use it with the 5/8" and 1/2" tools as well whereas the 5/8" stabilizer can't be used with the larger tools.

https://trentboschtools.com/

The Jamison system has many adherents on the Creek and I'm sure some of them will chime in as well.

Good luck!

[William C Rogers]

All of those are good systems. However I believe the Harrison can only use a 5/8” bar. The others are 3/4” and larger. I have the Simon Hope system. My choice was basically a cost comparison. I have the Hope video system. Trent makes a nice system with a large video screen where the Hope screen is much smaller. I have hooked mine up to a large screen but I prefer the smaller screen as it it easier to setup. I’m not sure if the other systems have a video option or just a laser option. I definitely prefer the video over the laser and I do have both.

[Mike Goetzke]

I have a Kobra system and really like it - probably one (if not the) of the stoutest systems available. Few years back I picked up a like new used one. Don't even know if the company exists anymore. As I recall they never had a web page either.

Mike

[Dave Bunge]

I own a Gizmo hollowing system from JT Turning Tools and like it a lot. Unfortunately, it seems to be no longer available. I know a couple of people who have tried to order one, but have not been able to get a response from the owner.

A friend of mine purchased the Trent Bosch system and it seems to me to be a very solid system. I would add that the HSS cutters in the Bosch hollowing bars are held in place using CA glue. I use hollowing bars from John Jordan. Their cutters are held in place using set screws which I like better. I believe it is possible to use the Jordan hollowing bars in the Bosh hollowing jig.

Dave

[ChrisA Edwards]

I have the Hope video system. Trent makes a nice system with a large video screen where the Hope screen is much smaller. I have hooked mine up to a large screen but I prefer the smaller screen as it it easier to setup. I’m not sure if the other systems have a video option or just a laser option. I definitely prefer the video over the laser and I do have both.

I definitely think I will set up a video system, it seems so much easier to use than the laser systems.

Not sure if I'll use my old MacBook Pro or just try and go with a camera and monitor.

So anyone who has MacGyver'd a system together, I'd love to hear what components you used.

Thanks.

[ChrisA Edwards]

....... I would add that the HSS cutters in the Bosch hollowing bars are held in place using CA glue.
Dave

Are you saying that the cutter tip is held on the shaft of the tool by glue?

Currently the Trent Bosc system, from what I've seen on Youtube, is my favorite.

[John K Jordan]

...
I've seen the following systems

Simon Hope system from the UK
Simple Hollow from Kerry Harrision
Lyle Jamieson System
Trent Bosch System

Chris,

I don't use a hollowing rig but have seen a couple of demos. The Bosch does seems good. Lots of people have made their own, too. It doesn't seem too hard, especially if you have a way to work steel.

Have you seen all those in action? If not you might check with local clubs - maybe there are some demos scheduled within driving distance.

[William C Rogers]

Are you saying that the cutter tip is held on the shaft of the tool by glue?

Currently the Trent Bosc system, from what I've seen on Youtube, is my favorite.

Trent does use glue to hold his cutters. I have his and John Jordans and like the Jordan cutters better because they can be removed. However the Bosch cutters work ok and can be sharpened.
I’m not good on the camera hook up and is the reason I went with the Hope system. I did finally get my old Mac computer to work. The biggest problem for me with the Mac was converting the camera analog signal for the Mac. I finally did get a converter to work, but found I liked the smaller screen better and easier to set up. For me knowing the problems getting the Mac to work, I’m glad I bought the Hope video system. Trent offers a nice video system, but pricey.

[ChrisA Edwards]

John Jordan is part of our Nashville Turning Club. I joined it back in January, but unfortunately missed the February meeting. Hope he doesn't mind being bombarded with questions when I finally get to meet him.

[David M Peters]

Yet another hollowing rig choice is the "Elbo (http://www.wtwtim.com/elbotool-a.htm)". I have one and am happy with it. It doesn't appear to be as beefy as the other systems out there but it's also not as expensive. I have modest hollowing goals so it works for me.

[ChrisA Edwards]

Thank you, that Elbo looks good as well. I initially didn't like the way it connected to the tailstock, but found a video where someone used a MT2 adaptor https://littlemachineshop.com/product..., with a drawbar, to allow it to mount to that.

That one may have just jumped to the top of my list.

[Paul Williams]

Another vote for the Elbo system. I use the flat plate lathe extension for mounting on my delta midi. My decision was made on price for a system that met my somewhat simple hollowing needs.

[David M Peters]

Thank you, that Elbo looks good as well. I initially didn't like the way it connected to the tailstock, but found a video where someone used a MT2 adaptor https://littlemachineshop.com/product..., with a drawbar, to allow it to mount to that.

That one may have just jumped to the top of my list.


Here are links to the video and the MT2 adapter. The adapter is a pretty good idea, I might try that out some day.

https://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2394
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4MJS1vJQ5g

[Eugene Dixon]

Check out the spin doctor hollowing system. https://www.theokspindoctor.com I've used one once. Kinda nifty. Might work even better with a shrouded Hunter carbide cutter (like the big mesquite sphere turner in TX if you've seen that video).

[Richard Coers]

I McGivered my whole system. Articulated system inspired by the Kobra, camera system is a $10 inspection camera off eBay on an ancient laptop. Maybe $50 in the entire system, not including the metal lathe and mill. LOL
426424

[Jim Bell]

I purchased the Lyle Jamieson hollowing system about 12 yrs ago and am completely satisfied. Never once have I had a problem and have turned wood down to as little as 1/16 of an inch with no problem. As to the other systems I have to plead total ignorance as I have never seen any of them in use. I am always open to new ideas and suggestions from others on this forum. Have a great day!

[Peter Blair]

I have 3 systems including the Cobra and one I purchased from Dave at DWay tools. I also built one based on the Lyle Jameson type if you are interested in it you could jump over to my blog and check it out. I did have to get two small welds done bu a local shop, one to join the sections and one to hold the post for my camera and laser.
https://woodbowlsandthings.wordpress.com/2018/01/29/hollowing-rig/

[ChrisA Edwards]

I have 3 systems including the Cobra and one I purchased from Dave at DWay tools. I also built one based on the Lyle Jameson type if you are interested in it you could jump over to my blog and check it out. I did have to get two small welds done bu a local shop, one to join the sections and one to hold the post for my camera and laser.
https://woodbowlsandthings.wordpress.com/2018/01/29/hollowing-rig/

Thank you, that was very interesting. I've seen a few home made versions of the Lyle Jamieson system, most not anywhere near as nice as yours, but perfectly practical from a tool use standpoint.

I've been contemplating buying the LJ system ($455), but can't decide between that and the Trent Bosch, which is about $150 to $200 more by the time you add the cutters and laser support setup.

I have a TIG/Stick welder, that I haven't used in 10+ years, so I may have a go at making my own, the LJ system is pretty simple to fabricate the parts, the welding is my only psychological challenge due to my lack of recent use. My other thought, if I'm going to spend close to $500 on a system, I could buy a cheap MIG welder and bang my setup together or find a local welding shop to finalize the pieces.

I just bought a cheap CCTV camera and monitor yesterday for whatever system I eventually end up with.

[Peter Blair]

Chris, If it were me and of course it's not I would make my own system. One of difficulties for me at least was to adapt any tool I wanted to work in my system. As I said I already had a Kobra and wanted to try making my own as well as being able to use the shafts that came with it. I sometimes turn quite small hollow forms and always though I wouldn't use a system to hollow them but it is so much more relaxing and when the camera system is added it just makes getting the thickness you want a no brainer. Best of luck!

[Richard Coers]

Thank you, that was very interesting. I've seen a few home made versions of the Lyle Jamieson system, most not anywhere near as nice as yours, but perfectly practical from a tool use standpoint.

I've been contemplating buying the LJ system ($455), but can't decide between that and the Trent Bosch, which is about $150 to $200 more by the time you add the cutters and laser support setup.

I have a TIG/Stick welder, that I haven't used in 10+ years, so I may have a go at making my own, the LJ system is pretty simple to fabricate the parts, the welding is my only psychological challenge due to my lack of recent use. My other thought, if I'm going to spend close to $500 on a system, I could buy a cheap MIG welder and bang my setup together or find a local welding shop to finalize the pieces.

I just bought a cheap CCTV camera and monitor yesterday for whatever system I eventually end up with.

Fairly certain a new welder will not give you instant skills. A cheap MIG is not a good choice for welding thick steel. A stick welder will do much better in my opinion.

[bob pfohler]

It only hurts for a little while, buy the one you want and spend the money.

[John Sincerbeaux]

To me, asking what type of hollowing rig is like asking what type of bowl gouge? The type of hollowing rig depends on what size of vessel you want to hollow? Hollowing a vessel less than 10” diameter and depth doesn’t require that much tooling. But hollowing larger vessels requires exponentially greater tooling heft. I have owned the Trent Bosch “stabilizer”. That rig is hefty but still not near enough heft for large HF’s. I am not sure there is any articulating systems that are sufficient for large HF’s. For big stuff i think captured systems with big bars are king. I like Steve Sinner’s bars and rigs.

The interesting thing that no one in the wood turning world ever talk about because very few even know about it is... hollowing using a tool rest that actually goes inside the vessel.
Most hollowing challenges come from the distance from tool-rest to cutter. But, by supporting the cutter only a few inches off a tool-rest that is inside the vessel you gain all the control you will ever need.
The guy in Texas who hollows massive HF’s is a friend and a mentor. He hollows everything by hand by using this method.

Cheers

[Eugene Dixon]

The guy in Texas who hollows massive HF’s is a friend and a mentor. He hollows everything by hand by using this method.

Cheers

Be nice to get a dimensioned sketch of his inside tool rest. I've tried to contact him via the Dallas Woodturning club but got no reply from the club.

[John K Jordan]

The interesting thing that no one in the wood turning world ever talk about because very few even know about it is... hollowing using a tool rest that actually goes inside the vessel.
Most hollowing challenges come from the distance from tool-rest to cutter. But, by supporting the cutter only a few inches off a tool-rest that is inside the vessel you gain all the control you will ever need.
The guy in Texas who hollows massive HF’s is a friend and a mentor. He hollows everything by hand by using this method.



I have two tool rests that fit inside things with reasonably wide openings, such as boxes, one from Best Wood Tools and one from Robust. http://www.turnrobust.com/tool-rests/ (I removed the pin but it would be useful at times and can be reinserted)

These are not specifically designed for hollow forms but the same idea could be used to fabricate a custom rest with a smaller profile, keeping in mind maintaining enough strength. I imagine one with a curved top (S curve?) but without the vertical height of the support web of the J-rests shown on the Robust web site and intended for turning bowls.

JKJ

[Peter Blair]

This is a great idea but I don't see how it would work for many of us who hollow through small openings. In addition I would be blessed to find wood that would be big enough for me to hollow that deep. I use pretty much free wood and seldom find anything of that she here.

[John K Jordan]

This is a great idea but I don't see how it would work for many of us who hollow through small openings. In addition I would be blessed to find wood that would be big enough for me to hollow that deep. I use pretty much free wood and seldom find anything of that she here.

I wish there was a reasonable way to get some to you. I occasionally run into someone with big wood or have a downed tree on my property and occasionally have had the need to remove a large tree.

A friend once gave me wood from a 3' diameter ambrosia maple tree. It had been cut into quarters but I could still easily get some pretty big blanks from it, a few 16-18" long and maybe 14-15" in diameter of clear wood without the pith. There is usually plenty much larger for those who don't mind working green wood with the pith in the wood.

JKJ

[ChrisA Edwards]

This is on hold for me right now, I've started another major wood project that will probably last 2-3 months at my leisurely pace.

So no wood turning for a while, but I have now moved the Lyle Jamieson hollowing system to the top of my list. I like the captured tool idea and it seems that it will have greater/more heavy duty ability than I will most likely need, at least for the not to distant future. I like the idea of the torque forces, associated with the tool while cutting, mostly being captured and controlled by the front and rear tool rests, allowing more of a finesse control by ones hands.

So that's my reasoning, if I'm wrong, please educate me, thanks.

[Dwight Rutherford]

I’ve been using the Lyle Jaimeson hollowing rig for over 10 years. I think you have made a good choice.

[John K Jordan]

...I have now moved the Lyle Jamieson hollowing system to the top of my list.

You might look for a used one. I bought one the other day complete with three JJordan tools, camera and monitor. Another guy offered to sell his Jamison for $100 but I don't know what if any tools came with it.

[ChrisA Edwards]

John, sent you a pm, but not sure it went through. Do you have the contact info for that other guy, thanks.

I think you have my contact info from a fairly recent pm interchange we had.

[Peter Blair]

Wow what did you have to pay or your John? I have two of the JJ tools the bent and straight and use them on both my home made system and my Kobra.

[Clint Bach]

I made a big, heavy, very stable boring bar holder out of 1" by 2" about 3 foot long cold rolled steel. I drilled two holes in each end so it can hold 3/4, 5/8, 1/2 and 3/8 inch boring bars or carbide router bits.

I added set screws to hold the bars in place. Studidly simple is better because it's stupidly simple.

I do have a second banjo to hold a captive tool rest like the Jamison uses. If you don't have a second banjo why don't you have a second banjo? Sooo useful. Like for the front and back side of a bowl or platter or long spindles. Or a captive tool rest.

Cpb

[Peter Blair]

Clint any chance you have a photo or two?

[Clint Bach]

I'm photo challenged. But I assure you it's a butt simple thing to do. Aquire a chunk of 1" by 2" cold rolled steel. A floor stand dtill press works best to drill the holes in the ends. Space the holes in from the sides so the wall thickness is slightly thicker than the length of your set screws. Tap holes for the set screws. I use two set screws for each hole. The deeper the boring bar holes the better. No welding...

I hope this doesn't tank the deep hollowing device market... It's way more ridgid than any articulated system I can imagine. And it's scalable for length and cross section. Did I mention cheap and no welding?

I have not added video or Lazer guidance to mine yet but holes could easily be tapped almost anywhere on the bar for extremely ridgid connections without the problems of tapping holes in not flat material.

Cpb

[Peter Blair]

Thanks but I guess we all have our own set of challenges. I don't understand how a piece o 1 x 2 cold rolled steel would be held in my lathe. Probably best if I just accept that it works great and get on with using what I have!

[Clint Bach]

Two banjos and a Jameson type captive back tool rest or a Jameson type captive tool rest which doesn't need an extra banjo.

You also need a regular tool rest to support the boring bar at the work. Almost like the Jameson system but doesn't need the looping handle because 2" x 1" stock won't twist if captured. Wax the tool rests for smooth action.

I use it to turn the inside of drum shells. Those are deep, large diameter staved shells. Mass and ridgidity are required to tame chattering.

Cpb