Is there money in woodworking?

[Travis Conner]

Other than making kitchen cabinets, is there money in it? I've always kept it as a hobby. I once heard of a guy who won the lottery say he's going to keep wood working until the money runs out. Lol

[Mark e Kessler]

There can be but the margins are low. I got out of it professionally 15yrs ago, I went to a furniture design/build school started out building just furniture then one day I found myself with 5 employees building kitchens, banks, hospitals etc...There certainly are exceptions but it requires time, perseverance and a will to sacrifice, I was working min 12hr days 5-6 days a week. For me its a lot easier to go to work get a paycheck, full benefits and 10% match with raises and bonuses every year but I’m a sell out, lol. Now I build what I want and make a little on the side...


mark


Other than making kitchen cabinets, is there money in it? I've always kept it as a hobby. I once heard of a guy who won the lottery say he's going to keep wood working until the money runs out. Lol

[Richard Coers]

You can do okay, and you only need to work half days. A half day is 12 hours. I closed my business after 8 years. Started making the decision to close when I was working alone in the shop on Sunday afternoons. 6 1/2 day work weeks, 11 hour work days, with sales calls in the evenings when people were home. I saw my two young children at dinner and Sunday mornings. Some evenings too if I didn't have a sales call. Often I didn't get to start working in the shop until after lunch. Answering phone calls, working on designs and estimates, doing accounting duties, etc... You really become more of a businessman and less of a craftsman. I made the decision to close when I was offered a job at Woodworker's Journal. A 5 day week with benefits. That job left when the magazine went to Rockler. Turned out well as I went back to my corporate job at Caterpillar, and am collecting a pension check every month now. Been retired 5 years now, I'd still have been working in my business if I kept it going since I wasn't able to make the profits to invest for retirement. Oh yeah, making kitchen cabinets is about the most cut throat way to may a living there is. Imagine having to compete with IKEA, or flat pack cabinets from China? EVERY small shop says they can provide the special service needed for customer satisfaction. So that means nothing these days. So it then always relates back to price!

[Patrick Walsh]

Im a cabinet maker.

You can’t make good money without it mirroring exactly as stated above. You can make crap money otherwise,

Anyone I know making cool stuff or that likes what they do has a spouse with a really good job.

So my answer is no, it’s a hard way to make a living so you better love what you do.

I choose to work for someone, I know what I can and can not count on week to week if I do my 40 hrs. It’s crap to be quite honest. For it to be ok I have to work 60hrs a week 52 weeks a year..

But I like what I do, I was building custom cabs and liked it but was getting bored. I’m now building pipe organs and from what I can tell it’s way more fine Woodworking than kitchens. Ideally I’d make furniture but then I’d really be broke!


I want o like what I do and not be poor, hard thing to do in any field,
You can do okay, and you only need to work half days. A half day is 12 hours. I closed my business after 8 years. Started making the decision to close when I was working alone in the shop on Sunday afternoons. 6 1/2 day work weeks, 11 hour work days, with sales calls in the evenings when people were home. I saw my two young children at dinner and Sunday mornings. Some evenings too if I didn't have a sales call. Often I didn't get to start working in the shop until after lunch. Answering phone calls, working on designs and estimates, doing accounting duties, etc... You really become more of a businessman and less of a craftsman. I made the decision to close when I was offered a job at Woodworker's Journal. A 5 day week with benefits. That job left when the magazine went to Rockler. Turned out well as I went back to my corporate job at Caterpillar, and am collecting a pension check every month now. Been retired 5 years now, I'd still have been working in my business if I kept it going since I wasn't able to make the profits to invest for retirement. Oh yeah, making kitchen cabinets is about the most cut throat way to may a living there is. Imagine having to compete with IKEA, or flat pack cabinets from China? EVERY small shop says they can provide the special service needed for customer satisfaction. So that means nothing these days. So it then always relates back to price!

[Phillip Mitchell]

It depends. Is there (good) money in custom, hand-crafted furniture making? Short answer: No, not really. Long answer: you need to define (good) money...

Most folks who operate doing this professionally, even the extremely talented ones, would struggle to consistently support a family (or hope to build up a savings account outside of the business) just from that alone without a spouse also providing income or some other diversified income streams (such as routinely taking on other types of more profitable work, teaching woodworking, etc.)

Most who walk this path (myself included when I have the opportunity to do this work) recognize the privilege of being able to spend their days doing creative and inspiring work they love and prescribe their own value figure to that element that offsets the inevitable lower “wage” that you usually end up being able to pay yourself because you’ve put so much into your work. This is different for every person and their own financial situations, but there usually comes a time when the harsh reality of impending financial responsibilities play into how much labor you can actually afford to put into a piece. I think the key to a long and sustainable career in this realm is to learn to live simply and keep your overall expenses low enough to “be able to afford” to be a custom fine furniture maker. The specifics would be different case by case.

I would love for someone to prove me wrong with this assessment.

Is there money in cabinetry, architectural woodworking, and finish carpentry/ on site “woodworking” that is generally more streamlined in how it’s produced than custom furniture? Yes, there can be if you have the right space, skills, tools, know how to market and sell, and know how to run a sustainable business.

I may sound cynical, but it’s only because I’ve been on both sides.

[Patrick Walsh]

I’ve worked extensively on both sides except the custom furniture. I’ve do that hear and there but that’s it.

I can say even the more profitable cabinets millwork so forth and so on are hard knock life. I have yet to meet one single person whom does not struggle to keep afloat. Be them home builders, renovators, cabinet makers, millwork finish carpenters you name it. Some, do,ok bit only cuz someone else brings home the bacon.

You can’t have a good life “on paper” as there is no 401k, no pension, and no room to actually save. If you get health insurance paid vacation it’s only because you have been at it a long time and are relented reliable and not a chore to be around.

You can make a survivalist living. For me with no university it was always better money than the other options. 20 plus years later that’s still the case however I have found a bitch I enjoy and find joy in my work. I’ll get old loose all my teeth and die alone. I’ll be praying I don’t live to long as I won’t be able to afford it.

Oh and your body will surely poop th bed on you way early. You can’t grasp what this means when your young and it hasn’t happened yet.

[Phillip Mitchell]

I think everyone struggles to keep the ship sailing in the proper direction, even the folks who are well established and have been at it for a long time. I never said anyone had it easy, but I do think that more opportunity to actually be profitable in this business come after you’ve been around the block a few times.

The bottom line...the thing you’ll hear nearly everyone say...is that making a living as a woodworker isn’t ever really an easy or overly profitable path to take. Most of us do this because we love it, need some
element of woodworking in our lives and/or would be miserable doing anything else for a living. But it ain’t easy...

[Mel Fulks]

Many do work too cheaply in order to "get in" with big contractors. Way to many! I believe in having some good stock products
and always showing them ....not just getting the 30 feet of shoe mould they came in for. Even when as an employee
I came up with proven stock products few in management were interested. One thing I came up with was a 5 foot wide
elipitical cased opening that would work in any room with a ceiling of 9 feet. I sold 13 of them at $750 each. They were
all identical. I emphasized the old proven concept of some elegance in parlors and dining rooms. Elegant special pieces do NOT match the stuff in the laundry room. But to many that's a radical idea ! I also made two sizes
of mitred newel posts and sold a bunch of those. Stopping what you are working on to make something for a
contractor who always botches counting what he needs is nutty, but real popular.

[Bob Jones 5443]

I feel fortunate to be able to approach woodworking as a hobby. I take forever to make anything, but the few things I've managed to finish meet my rather fussy criteria, so I'm happy with them. My darling wife has been waiting for two years for the cherry cabinet: Maybe this summer. I'm inching up on it.

My "day job" is working with high school students when they are not in school: evenings and weekends. I'm 100% full this month and next (good news for income, but no free time in those parts of the week). However, I do have school hours off (when I'm not running invoices or making client calls or keeping records).

So, make a living from woodworking? Never considered it. I'd starve on the street if I tried to pay the bills with it. Keeping it as a hobby allows me to be good at some tasks, mediocre at others, and downright pitiful at still others. But it's a lifelong pursuit, and that makes it an excellent hobby.

[Rick Potter]

Never have and never will make a dime making something for money. I have had several people want me to make them a kitchen, but no way. They probably think I could do it in a couple weeks cheaper than they can buy it, and I know it would take me months at my speed.

I can't even establish good hobbyist creds, since almost everything I make is designed by the wife or one of the kids. I can't remember the last time I built something because I wanted to.

Sure glad I had a different job that paid the bills for 34 years.

That's why I say I am just a DIY guy. With a good tool collection.

[Gordon Stump]

My experience doing "full time" custom work for 20 years is not terrible. Basically customers asked for stuff that was very hard to make, not available in stores or they just wanted something they saw in a furniture store on the cheap. As others have posted, once commissioned then the 12 hours a day 7 days a week starts. But being a "full time" theater/studio musician my family only knew me as the guy who missed birthdays, holidays, weekends, graduations. etc. I was also a "full time" adjunct professor at a music college. Eventually I just got tired of the 50 hour weeks piecing together a weird career.

I quit playing trumpet, quit woodworking, quit teaching and took a day job for 12 years. I went back to woodworking after I retired and started a niche woodworking business making musical instrument stands. So to get to the original question:

Yes you can make money woodworking but it is hard work. It is easier to make small widgets out of wood and sell them on the internet!

In closing, it is fine to have a partner with a big day job. But when he or she buys a red sports car convertible things can change in a hurry. Not me but lots of my "full time" musician colleagues. My wife of 51 years did not work outside the home and we both loved it.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Having recently retired from a wood working, being self employed for the last 22 years, I can say yes, provided: You have a spouse who can carry during lean times, insurance thru a retirement from a former employer, tools and shop (including truck) that are paid for, plus a good customer base. You also need outside skills. As an example, unstopping a toilet pays as much as a day in the shop does. You have to meet customers needs. You install a cabinet, and customer wants it painted, then you paint it. Got a sink in it (rough out already in place) you hook it up. These skills aren't woodworking, but are necessary to succeed. By being able to do hook ups, you can set cabinets and tops in a single trip. $$$$ saved.

[Bob Riefer]

Really interesting to read all these points of view from those with way more experience than I'll ever have. Thank you for sharing!

I'm embarrassed to say that I went through the steps to setup a small side business for my woodworking. I'm shy about it because... I'm awful at this damn hobby compared to all the talented folks I see around here, and my customer pace is literally about 1 per month. LOL. Some business!

All that to say this.... My pitifully low number of customers pay me a fair rate for projects that are fun for me to build. They understand they're getting nice quality at a decent (but NOT cheap) price because I'm slow, I'm picky (I only work on what I want to work on), and I'm often times using their project to learn a new skill.

Could this replace my actual management consulting job? Hellllllllll nooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

Do I make enough to make my hobby free to me? YES :-)

I spend about 2 hours per night in the shop, and longer on the weekends... This enables me to do my day job well, make it to all my kids' activities and dinner etc., and use woodworking as a decompress-from-stress-of-life activity. Besides, my wife ran out of projects for me to build inside the house, so I need to use the tools somehow.

When I retire someday, I'd love to continue this pace. Great way to meet people and keep the hobby alive.

[Steve Jenkins]

I’ve been self employed since 1982. It’s tough but rewarding in ways other than financial. One thing I’ve noticed is how much entrepreneur sounds like “ I tripped in manure”.

[glenn bradley]

Ever notice how many professional furniture makers also teach, contribute magazine articles or run schools?

[Patrick Kane]

Im surprised by the negativity. I know a few people locally that it is perfect for. They might not make more than $50-60k a year, but they are also doing highly specific historic restoration work and only working half the year. Not necessarily woodworking, but one guy makes signs for retail storefronts, works alone, and makes a top 10% level income. Finally, i cant speak loosely about a vendor i used to work with when i was at a large retail company. They made fixtures like tables, shelves, display stuff, and i know that company was not hurting for business. However, for every success story, there are 10 stories like the guys above that found themselves working to death for very little profit. Kitchen cabinets always looked like a warzone to me. I make some on the side, and used to make a lot more working a lot more. On a part time basis, it was really good for me. Paid for a lot of lovely international trips with my wife, and paid off my student loans in a few short years. All the while working from my home in odd evening and weekend hours. It's not that it necessarily paid a lot, but it was flexible and easily fit into my office job's schedule. I guess it would be similar to driving for Uber in the evening and weekends. Back then, i bet i was only netting like $30/hour, which isnt enough to equate to a good standard of living, in my opinion. Now, i take on only a dozen jobs a year and it pays for any tool splurge i want, a vacation or two, and some extra money towards retirement. Of those jobs, i turn down anything that doesnt pay the rate i want it to. I dont need the money, and I dont chase business. If it comes to me, and it is the price i demand, then i do it. If not, then we both go on our merry way. Woodworking income has always been a really nice side hustle for me, but i never had the impression i could or want to go at it full time. Professionally, it reminds me a lot of another hobby of mine, bonsai. The most talented bonsai professionals make their money teaching classes to hobbyists, and not by creating beautiful trees and selling them. Even then, there is a point of severe diminishing returns for both. I can think of two bonsai studios that dont chase business or do crazy circuits/tours of the country doing demonstrations and classes for a couple hundred bucks a pop. Instead they teach a handful of classes a year in their home nurseries and classes are so limited the students pay thousands to be there for a week. Im sure those guys arent taking home more than $75-100k each year, but they are doing what they adore, from their home, and once again, not working 80 hour weeks. Conversely, they could beat themselves to death and maybe make $150k a year.

[Richard Coers]

Im surprised by the negativity. I know a few people locally that it is perfect for. They might not make more than $50-60k a year,

These are people supporting a family? I'm curious how those craftsman intend to get by in their latter years? Those years when the arthritis make for sore hands or fingers that lock up, or those years when stooping over a bench can only last a half hour at a time because of back pain? I bet they don't have much of a 401k, and are likely part of the 25% of Americans with no retirement savings. How do they afford healthcare insurance? What happens if they cut off a finger and can't work for a month? They will find it extremely difficult to live on social security because of course that is calculated on income. I didn't worry so much about that when I owned my business, but my getting out of the business was quite fortuitous as I was able to retire at 62 from a corporate job and now live very comfortably on a pension and social security.

[Zachary Hoyt]

I have been selling things I made from wood since 2006, first it was twig furniture, and for the last 10-12 years my shop time has transitioned to musical instruments, which were always the goal. I have a 'day job' which provides room and board and limited use of a car, but other expenses are mine to cover. In the last couple of years I have made enough money to have lived on if I had been living on it, though not to have much margin. I have been saving that money and am planning to buy a house in the Adirondacks in the next year or two and move there to build instruments full time. I am not married and have no children, I don't drink, smoke, do drugs or travel and I am an inveterate cheapskate. I am not expecting to have a lifestyle that many Americans would think was comfortable or well-to-do, but I hope to keep building up my reputation and business over time, and putting more money into savings. Because 95% of my sales are by mail I can work anywhere that I have access to a post office, and can have a garage or similar sized space to work in. I have been bicycling up to the Adirondacks for a week each summer the last 10 years, and I am looking forward to living there and being able to spend more time in the woods.
Zach

[Jack Frederick]

Many have said, "Do something that you love and you will never work another day in your life." My experience with that is, "nothing can cure a love of something faster than having to make a living at it."

[Jim Becker]

While I certainly enjoy the "mad money" that my part time business produces (and the tax benefits), there is no way I could survive financially anywhere close to the way I'm accustomed to. I expect and make very healthy hourly rates for my work (different kinds of work have different rates) and will not take commissions from folks who are not willing to pay it. This is especially more difficult these days with the "Walmartization" of society combined with the complete lack of understanding from so many people about how much work goes into creating something since so many have never created anything.

Take commissions for your enjoyment and to make some money at the same time, but don't expect to get rich. Those that do make money find a niche that they can fill and fill well, but even for them, business can be cyclic.

[mike stenson]

This is especially more difficult these days with the "Walmartization" of society

When things are judged only by price, it's impossible to compete with something manufactured in volume. There's also those who are willing to undercut the market because they're willing to effectively work at a loss, both are problems in pretty much every field these days. There's money in woodworking, but mostly in the supply chain ;) possibly in teaching, but that's going to take another skill set than just being able to do it (anyone else ever teach? It's not easy.). Otherwise, you're going to have to hustle more than you probably anticipate to make ends meet.

[Todd Trebuna]

Never have and never will make a dime making something for money. I have had several people want me to make them a kitchen, but no way. They probably think I could do it in a couple weeks cheaper than they can buy it, and I know it would take me months at my speed.

I can't even establish good hobbyist creds, since almost everything I make is designed by the wife or one of the kids. I can't remember the last time I built something because I wanted to.

Sure glad I had a different job that paid the bills for 34 years.

That's why I say I am just a DIY guy. With a good tool collection.

This.^^ I have worked for the Fed since 1987, so I have a great job that provides me the ability to buy middle of the road, prosumer tools and some good wood occasionally. I am just to the point, where I am actually doing some projects for myself. Up until now I've mostly made stuff for my family, with their individual needs in mind.

[Scott Buehler]

I owned my own cabinetry business for 19 years and many of those years made a ton of money, but also had some really bad years. Take advantage of the ups and prepare for the downs. Like many others have said, you will work 12+ hours a day 6 days a week and the stress can get to you at times. I never thought of making cabinets as woodwork though, it was a job that I found less than passionate about. About ten years ago when the economy went to crap, I decided to close the doors. I am now a firefighter and have since built my own 800 sq ft shop behind my house. I have slowly bought enough tools to begin making cabinets again for a few contractors I have stayed in touch with over the years. They only build a few houses a year, which is perfect. It allows me to pay for all the new tools! And now I can actually focus on my"woodworking" skills once again. It is much more pleasurable now that I don't "have" to pay the bills with this income. So the answer to your question is...Yes you can make money, good money. But it will take time, patience and probably take the"fun and hobby" part away from it. Good luck with whatever you do, try to keep it enjoyable :)

[Andrew More]

These are people supporting a family?

Not the OP, but I can tell you where I live, in the Midwest, 50-60K per year is a comfortable middle class lifestyle. Currently the average income for a household is $40K. So if the husband came home with 50-60K and the wife also worked, it's a very nice existence. When I was a grad student here I was able to live for about 10K per year, with no real impact on my quality of life.

If you're living in a high cost of living area, that might not be enough money to afford a shoe shine.

So I don't think comments about yearly income are useful without noting of cost of living.

[Jim Becker]

There's money in woodworking, but mostly in the supply chain

This is exactly why a large percentage of my work is sub-contract... ;)

[Richard Coers]

Not the OP, but I can tell you where I live, in the Midwest, 50-60K per year is a comfortable middle class lifestyle. Currently the average income for a household is $40K. So if the husband came home with 50-60K and the wife also worked, it's a very nice existence. When I was a grad student here I was able to live for about 10K per year, with no real impact on my quality of life.

If you're living in a high cost of living area, that might not be enough money to afford a shoe shine.

So I don't think comments about yearly income are useful without noting of cost of living.

You're correct, but there are a lot of variables not mentioned. If my family lived on an Amish farm around Arcola, IL, I'm sure that would be a good salary. I didn't get several jobs when I had my business because of the prices they bid. But I chose not to live that lifestyle. For some reason our kids wanted electronic devices and my wife wanted to go on vacations and have some kind of vehicle that was not a cargo van.

[Timothy Thorpe Allen]

That 50 to 60 K range is almost exactly at the 50th percentile of household incomes, all ages, across the United States, in other words the very definition of "middle-class." (source: personalfinancedata.com)

[Jared Sankovich]

That 50 to 60 K range is almost exactly at the 50th percentile of household incomes, all ages, across the United States, in other words the very definition of "middle-class." (source: personalfinancedata.com)

And very subject to locality differences.

Median in the county I grew up 45k
Median in the previous county I lived 139k (42k was the poverty line for a single person, and qualified for housing assistance in 2009)
Median were I'm now 95k

[Adam Grund]

It sounds like woodworking is like many other trades- the equipment necessary to do the job on a professional level as a primary income- even on a small 1 man shop scale- can really set you back so far in the red it’s hard to generate a profit for years to come.
My trade is auto repair, and I work at a dealer. I stopped keeping track of money spent on tools probably 10 years ago, but my guess is I have at least 60k in tools- good quality tools. Not making a living off Pittsburgh and Kobalt stuff. 95% of my work is the brand our store sells, but we do work on all makes/ models.
If I tried to go out on my own, I bet there’d be at least another 60k in tools and equipment I’d need, and then add in building a shop or finding one to buy/rent- not working out of a 2 car garage, most don’t have enough height for a lift.
Factor all that in, and I’m in the red for an awful lot, for a long time. And that’s not even taking in to consideration any kind of retirement savings or self employment health insurance, which will eat you alive.
After all that, It sure doesn’t leave you with the feeling that America wants the small business to succeed.

[johnny means]

There's no money in woodworking. There's plenty of money in locating, marketing to, and designing for the type of buyer who wants and is willing to pay for bespoke woodworking. Guess which one is the hardest end of the business.

[Tom M King]

It always looked to me like the only people that might be making a living at it were getting paid to talk about it, whether in print, or class. I'm sure there are a few, but the chances of getting established, and ending up making a good living (not just getting by) are pretty slim. I've seen some do well for a short while, but then things change.

I've built stuff for a living since 1974, but not for other people. Woodworking is on the list of stuff I do, but without stonework, brickwork, plaster, carpentry, cabinetry, custom roofing, plumbing, electrical, and other stuff that needs to be done, like cutting grass, I would have to do something else for a living. I get paid the same thing for any of that, with the only thing different being finding leaks, and fixing leaking roofs. I get double my normal rate for that, because I don't want to do it. If you pay me enough, and can't find anyone else to do it, I will, but don't complain when you get the bill.

If I only did woodworking, I couldn't even think about paying the property tax on the Ponderosa, much less supporting, and raising a family in addition. At my age, I could quit working if I wanted to, but am fortunate to still have good health, and mobility, so I'd rather be making money, than sitting down, or piddling time away.

[Josko Catipovic]

There's no money in woodworking. There's plenty of money in locating, marketing to, and designing for the type of buyer who wants and is willing to pay for bespoke woodworking. Guess which one is the hardest end of the business.

Amen. In my area (Cape Cod, Nantucket, Martha's Vineyard) there's 'old money' willing to do things 'right, the old way' and 'new money' trying to outdo each other with mcmansions and furnishings. Between the two types, there's room for a community of extraordinary craftsmen. A friend is completing a six-figure white oak spiral staircase this winter and has been working on similar stuff for well over a decade. It's word-of-mouth and seemingly very hard to break into. The community manages to keeps itself stable. The rest of us occasionally get lucky to get one of these craftsmen, typically at wholly reasonable rates, to do a spectacular piece of work for us.

[Zachary Hoyt]

Both where I am now and where I am planning to move the median household income is $35k. A lot of the instruments I sell go to places where I am sure it is much higher, so that helps make it easier to sell things.
Zach

[Bill Dufour]

I liked the $45,000 dining table they had on Practical Machinist this week.

[Rich Engelhardt]

There's only two things you need to do to make money at anything.....

#1.) Find a niche.
#2.) Fill it.

It really is as simple as this. I 100% guarantee you will make money doing this.
Making money is pure simplicity.

Turning a profit & hanging onto what you make is where the challenge lies.....

[Pete Staehling]

There's only two things you need to do to make money at anything.....

#1.) Find a niche.
#2.) Fill it.

It really is as simple as this. I 100% guarantee you will make money doing this.
Making money is pure simplicity.

Turning a profit & hanging onto what you make is where the challenge lies.....
This is what the real secret is. It is deceptively simple and sometimes deceptively difficult to achieve. It can fall in your lap or you can spend years looking for it and never find it.

The most frustrating is that often the niche finds you when you don't want to have a full time business or are otherwise unable to capitalize on it. This has happened to me a couple times in my life. In one case I couldn't pursue a potentially lucrative enterprise (not woodworking related) because I could not work out a way that I could own my intellectual property and not have it seized by my employer even though developed on my own time using my own resources. In another case a product of mine found a niche market just the right size to be mine and to demand all my time. It really wanted to become a full time business. I just wanted to be retired and tinker at it a couple hours per day at a casual pace.

In my younger years I found a good niche with potential a couple times and in my youthful stupidity squandered it with mismanagement. Other times I have tried and failed to find or create niches. It seems you just can't control when and where lightning will strike.

[Mark e Kessler]

Total true, a year or so after I closed my business down I realized that my niche was 10k-15k jobs from builders, architects and other woodshops - I could do them by myself for the most part, didn't consume a lot of non woodworking time and made some money, the best was always other woodworking shops that got really large contracts with a few smaller things like a built-in library wall or something that wasn't in their flow at the time. They would drop off the material, drawings then pick it up and give me a check. University work was good too, every year I would make replacement dorm furniture parts for Wright State, 10k a year every year about 2 weeks of effort and 2k in material. The other one that comes to mind it trim work for Holiday inn, I never even saw or touched the material - got a call for moulding (I didn't have a moulder at the time) subbed it to the shop that subbed me work, they delivered it and I got a check...

I didn't see it because my main goal and passion was to build furniture, not commercial/residential work I thought the bigger I get with more employees the more freedom I will have to build furniture...

Mark




This is what the real secret is. It is deceptively simple and sometimes deceptively difficult to achieve. It can fall in your lap or you can spend years looking for it and never find it.

The most frustrating is that often the niche finds you when you don't want to have a full time business or are otherwise unable to capitalize on it. This has happened to me a couple times in my life. In one case I couldn't pursue a potentially lucrative enterprise (not woodworking related) because I could not work out a way that I could own my intellectual property and not have it seized by my employer even though developed on my own time using my own resources. In another case a product of mine found a niche market just the right size to be mine and to demand all my time. It really wanted to become a full time business. I just wanted to be retired and tinker at it a couple hours per day at a casual pace.

In my younger years I found a good niche with potential a couple times and in my youthful stupidity squandered it with mismanagement. Other times I have tried and failed to find or create niches. It seems you just can't control when and where lightning will strike.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

There's no money in woodworking. There's plenty of money in locating, marketing to, and designing for the type of buyer who wants and is willing to pay for bespoke woodworking. Guess which one is the hardest end of the business.

Yes!

I do this for a living, I had to change careers and this was plan B. Luckily I know something about business, otherwise this career would be very short. Ditto what one of the other guys said about not being able to start working on actual projects until noon because you spend all morning businessing.

You will go broke quickly trying to make money woodworking. However, you can make a living using your skill set to get people to pay you for your time. You'll find that very little of that time they want to pay for involves woodworking though. In fact, you'll probably find that most of the honing of your woodworking skills is actually the opposite of profitable woodworking.

It'd help to have an MBA, be licensed and experienced in all the trades, and have a stash of funds to operate with, but it is possible to make a decent living even without all that. Comparing this to the plan A career, this is physically FAR more work (which I like) and makes less money. More satisfying though, so until until plan C shows itself, I'll stick with it.

[Jim Becker]

There's only two things you need to do to make money at anything.....

#1.) Find a niche.
#2.) Fill it.

Spot. On. True.

[Mark Bolton]

There's only two things you need to do to make money at anything.....

#1.) Find a niche.
#2.) Fill it.

It really is as simple as this. I 100% guarantee you will make money doing this.
Making money is pure simplicity.

Turning a profit & hanging onto what you make is where the challenge lies.....

Its of course true and something likely most anyone in business or who desires to be in business endlessly perseus. The shark tank approach. That isnt all there is to anything and I dont think it really speaks to the OP's question about is there money in woodworking. Its no different than someone going to school to be a dentist. They may of course specialize or focus on TMJ, Cosmetics, oral surgery (etc.. all "niches" of the dental industry) but there are still people that just go to be a dentist. Its true of any profession.

Everyone dreams of the lottery ticket idea or niche where you have some unique product, specialty, that youve refined the process for, gotten the patent, worked it out to where its difficult to knock off, but those are few and far between and often times very short lived for most everyone. This is more and more of a generational concept that is still being upheld in the shark tank philosophy of a product/service that is profitable/protectable. You see it on their show all the time, knock offs, global economy, being able to defend your niche may likely cost more than youll ever earn from it.

The answer to me as it pertains to most peoples concept of "woodworking" is no. Its going to be very difficult to near impossible to make money making what the average individual sees as "woodworking". Kitchen tables, furniture, bookcases, cutting boards, shelving, and so on. Seems very often at the hobby/borderline "in business" level, most people look to what they can earn as to what the market will bear as opposed to doing the work ahead and calculating what it costs them to produce, how many they will have to move, and so on. Then you factor in that more often than not they are comparing prices from a very small shop to commercially mass produced goods, and in short order you are in the camp of a spouse with a good income and benefits, working from your house so you shop supposedly doesnt cost you anything, and so on. That carries across the board to working on the side making cabinetry, or anything. And constantly falls back to the having fun, personal enjoyment, doing what your passionate about, as some component of your hourly compensation.

Sad but very common statement from even pretty successful furniture makers and woodworkers that if you even bother trying to calculate what your earning per hour you will lose your mind. Thats because they know/knew all the while they were "successfully" making furniture, they were really only afloat due to their spouses income, benefits, some pension or severance package, whatever, and they were likely workng for $5-$10 most times if they were lucky. Its great if all parties are o.k. with that but its really a sad thing to have to say to young people who would love to entertain a career in the business and have a desire to be self employed.

The concept of the niche is great but a lot of people spend a lot of time in the wood business making lots of things just to cover their overhead. Its not all about being a "creator" or constantly having gobs of time to prototype and ponder wild notions. A lot of time your just grinding out hundreds of parts like a drone.

[Edwin Santos]

There's only two things you need to do to make money at anything.....

#1.) Find a niche.
#2.) Fill it.

It really is as simple as this. I 100% guarantee you will make money doing this.
Making money is pure simplicity.



I had no idea it was that simple.

Reminds me of a guy I knew who was interested in a career in comedy. He got advice from Howie Mandel who told him making a success in comedy was simple, and it boiled down to just two things:

#1) Get on a stage.
#2) Say a lot of funny stuff.

[Edwin Santos]

Seriously though, the niche concept is definitely a strategy. The issue is the narrower the niche, the higher the margins, but the smaller the market. The middle of the fairway will be the largest market, but a commodity pricing bloodsport where the winner will be doing so based on mega volume and high dollar tooling, or low labor costs in some other country.

It seems to me that we have turned into a entertainment oriented consumer society. Many of the notable suspects who have done well in woodworking look to be vendors who are supplying hobbyists who pursue woodworking mainly for entertainment. Same with the YouTube woodworkers and guys like the Wood Whisperer who are vending content mostly for entertainment in exchange for sponsors, advertising, YouTube revenue.

If your needs are modest and you're not looking to support employees and a true business with overhead, then maybe yes you can find a niche and quietly do alright with it, but this will undoubtedly have a scale barrier, a ceiling. The theory of efficient markets says, if there is a meaningful market segment with attractive margins and you discover it, it won't be long before there will be competition and the margins will drop. Sorry if this sounds cynical, but I genuinely believe it to be the state of things today.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

If your needs are modest and you're not looking to support employees and a true business with overhead, then maybe yes you can find a niche and quietly do alright with it, but this will undoubtedly have a scale barrier, a ceiling. The theory of efficient markets says, if there is a meaningful market segment with attractive margins and you discover it, it won't be long before there will be competition and the margins will drop. Sorry if this sounds cynical, but I genuinely believe it to be the state of things today.

Yes.

As for the "niche", if you think you've ever "made it" in business of any sort, you shall soon be proven wrong by a much more agile and hungrier competitor. There is no niche, there is nothing that someone else hasn't already found/tried, there is only unprofitable. If something changes to make it profitable, you can bet that you will instantly have much better funded competition competing for it.

The secret to making woodworking make money? Be nice to people, answer your phone, work hard, and track every dollar. Do that and you will truly stand out in the crowd and you will have more work than you can do.

[Jack Frederick]

The other thing to consider is how do you get to the market. Skill, desire & tools would seem to be enough, but you have to be able to develop the market. It is out there and spinning around you. How do you wedge yourself into it. Without the ability and desire to do this part it will be a frustrating endeavor. I have a long time friend who does beautiful work and has not clue one on how to sell it. If you are not locally connected how do you get into it successfully?

[Mark Bolton]

Seriously though, the niche concept is definitely a strategy.

Spot on. And the economy in the US is changing rapidly. People dont shop the way they did 10 years ago. Its a changing dynamic and unfortunately other than in a very high end niche market the broad spectrum of the retail consumer market is about cheap, online, and fast. None of those three things jive with profitable small shop production. There are exceptions and there are always going to be the few performers that inspire everyone to keep chugging along but its getting more and more rare on a local level.

I think anyone wanting to entertain any kind of profitability working with wood (not plywood, melamine, etc, but wood) needs to be highly proficient in art/aesthetics/creative thinking and design, move to, or live, in the rural fringe sweetspot outside a super hip, high dollar community, where they can live and have a shop with the lowest overhead possible. Live a rural life, yet be close enough to capitalize on building a reputation for being some artsy-fartsy bohemian in the woods that makes this really funky stuff. That way you will have a clientele that your idea of a ton of money for a bench, is less than they spend for a dinner out with their family. You get in that world and get hooked up with some shops, galleries, designers, and architects, and you may have a chance to spend your days "creating" and have enough money to live a reasonably modest life.

[Edwin Santos]

Its a changing dynamic and unfortunately other than in a very high end niche market the broad spectrum of the retail consumer market is about cheap, online, and fast. None of those three things jive with profitable small shop production.

I might add "disposable" to your description of today's broad market. I have noticed a generational change where Gen X onwards are less inclined to invest in heirloom items. All technology and electronic items are basically disposable with a short life span. This seems to have influenced all areas of consumer thinking including furniture. So if the customers are thinking of the item as temporary, 3-5 years, then there is a limit to what they will spend.
Again, this is the broad market. There will always be high end exceptions, especially in a strong economy, but I think they are fewer and farther between, and when a recession hits, even that market can dry up for a while.

[Randy Heinemann]

In short I believe no. If you can combine your skills making furniture with teaching, gaining popularity on YouTube or possibly find some niche where you sell large volumes of a product and can mass produce it then maybe. Then it is not really woodworking or furniture building you’re doing, at least not the kind where you build one of a kind furniture. There is only a small segment of potential customers who are willing to pay for custom furniture. The rest tend to believe you can make custom pieces for less than regular furniture sells in the stores. I love woodworking but, for me, attempting to make a living at it wouldn’t allow me to do the things I like about it most of the time.

[Jeff Monson]

Yes.



The secret to making woodworking make money? Be nice to people, answer your phone, work hard, and track every dollar. Do that and you will truly stand out in the crowd and you will have more work than you can do.

This!!! Spot on advice that applies to ANY business. I will add "when you make a mistake you take care of it" to the list. Otherwise just good common sense practice that very few businesses follow. This has always been my motto and my business is successful as a result.

[Mark Bolton]

This!!! Spot on advice that applies to ANY business. I will add "when you make a mistake you take care of it" to the list. Otherwise just good common sense practice that very few businesses follow. This has always been my motto and my business is successful as a result.

Its a phenomenal business practice no doubt. But its no guarantee or form of fertilizer for work through the door that pays. Its a "kiss it up to god" philosophy that typically speaks to the success simply being someone that busts their chops all around.

It all ties back to the changing economy. Wide strata of contributors here. The old guard that believes if you just keep your head down and work youll be ok... great philosophy but that died in the 60's. Happy customer tells one person a pissed off tells 10.... That is likely amplified a million fold for on-line/social media,.. but I can honestly tell you that doing odd/high custom work (when I did it) there are many times that your customers will not tell anyone about you because they want to hog you for themselves (thinking your getting rich from their jobs)..

There is a million levels of strata. I think in such a fast moving economy its dangerous for the old guard to advise those in this new age to operate in a way they think is profitable. In a disposable economy where a customer buys crap from a box store and then beats up a small supplier on price but expects caviar service doesnt make sense. It drives "the maker" into the ground.

Everyone reading this post has bought some dog poop light fixture, tool, product, vegetable, article of clothing, from a dirt cheap supplier that they shopped for the lowest price to find. When it landed.. and was found after a time to be crap, you just eat it, or if your a scumbag you return it even though you knew you were buying crap when you hit "add to cart". But you will beat a small local shop to that same standard of reasonable return.

Its simply unsustainable.

I buy some crap that I know full well is crap when I hit "ship it".. it lands.. its as advertised, but clearly crap.. it goes in the trash and I should've known better. I do that very very rarely now as I value my time and 99.9% of my purchases are for business.

A recent thread about ordering some "shop standards" (measuring scales) is a perfect example. You buy crap on price, it lands, and you return it thinking there is no skin off you.. you got your money back. The items land in the trash counted as loss, they are manufactured, plated, toxins are flushed into the planet, all to fill the market of the cheap shopper, and then only to be returned for credit and likely in the landfill.

There will be a reckoning for this recklessness. Who knows when it will hit.

[mike stenson]

Mark, you're spot on. The accumulation of 'stuff' started in the 60s, and we can trace the transience of those items to that time as well. Because of that, the consumer is ultimately continuing this insane negative feedback loop. I really do try to buy quality, and locally, but that is becoming harder and harder as we lose independent B&Ms and any more buying used and spending the time to repair/restore is becoming more appealing. Since my generation was blamed a few posts prior, I will point this out. We were the first generation to expect to do worse than our parents. We simply couldn't afford to shop outside of those bargain basement places for a long time, and the economy has never returned to the level that the boomers enjoyed as young adults.

[Mark Bolton]

Mark, you're spot on. The accumulation of 'stuff' started in the 60s, and we can trace the transience of those items to that time as well. Because of that, the consumer is ultimately continuing this insane negative feedback loop. I really do try to buy quality, and locally, but that is becoming harder and harder as we lose independent B&Ms and any more buying used and spending the time to repair/restore is becoming more appealing. Since my generation was blamed a few posts prior, I will point this out. We were the first generation to expect to do worse than our parents. We simply couldn't afford to shop outside of those bargain basement places for a long time, and the economy has never returned to the level that the boomers enjoyed as young adults.

Were headed off topic on this but I dont know really whether its not being able to afford or that the level of perceived necessary gee-gaws dangled infront of the masses continues to bear fruit or what. I have lived for perhaps 20+ years with rabbit ears on the TV. I am not going to pay $150-250 a month to watch TV programming that is not channels, but perpetual advertising. SO's local cable company recently expanded the mere 15 or so chanels you got by sticking a coax in the back of your TV to some 50-80 or so channels. DIY, History, HGTV, Food, Own, right on down the list.

Its utterly insane coming from not having seen that to now seeing it. You all are-being-programmed-to-consume. Nearly every show is nothing more than continuous advertisement for crap in-filled with a formal advertisement. Its completely insane. Non stop advertising. Coming from not having seen this stuff for 20 years its just plain wild to see how dooped the 200 channelers are being played. Its sick. And 90% of it is total junk. Low quality, budget, flipper, crap. And the default for someone who plans to stay in their home for a while is to cave to what they see. Its disgusting.

Marketing people are geniuses, devils, and witches who should be burned at the stake, all in one tasty little shinny candy.

Its really really wild.

[Alex Zeller]

Amen. In my area (Cape Cod, Nantucket, Martha's Vineyard) there's 'old money' willing to do things 'right, the old way' and 'new money' trying to outdo each other with mcmansions and furnishings. Between the two types, there's room for a community of extraordinary craftsmen. A friend is completing a six-figure white oak spiral staircase this winter and has been working on similar stuff for well over a decade. It's word-of-mouth and seemingly very hard to break into. The community manages to keeps itself stable. The rest of us occasionally get lucky to get one of these craftsmen, typically at wholly reasonable rates, to do a spectacular piece of work for us.

My neighbor is a part of that community. It's nothing for someone in California to request him to do work. For the most part he stays away from kitchen cabinets and focuses on other parts of a house. Custom stairs/ railings, book cases, and unique style doors. His shop is full of equipment you would die to have. But he almost always buys used and trades up often until he gets exactly what he wants. He also will take work doing other jobs (non-woodworking). Over all he does well and has lots of free time off.

But he started young. Where he grew up there was a man who was extremely talented. As he was graduating high school he went to him and ask to work. When the answer was no he said he would work for free just so he could learn. It took over a year before he got his first paycheck. For the first month all he did was push a broom. But when he proved he wanted to learn he got training most of us would love to have. For most of us that wouldn't be an option.

[johnny means]

On the topic of markets, there are no small markets any more. There is only inadequate research and marketing. You could build little wooden snail velodromes and there are more than enough buyers to build a successful business. The challenge is reaching the market for snail racing facilities.

[Jim Becker]

On the topic of markets, there are no small markets any more. There is only inadequate research and marketing. You could build little wooden snail velodromes and there are more than enough buyers to build a successful business. The challenge is reaching the market for snail racing facilities.

Oh, the mental image that brings.... :D :D :D

[Mark Gibney]

"The other thing to consider is how do you get to the market."

Exactly this. Maybe a year back I met a young man called Josh Jackson who started and runs a very successful woodworking business here in Los Angeles.
He told me point blank "Mark, I'm not a woodworker, I'm an entrepreneur. I know how to use social media to market myself."
He said he knows many people who are better woodworkers than him, who are struggling. They love wood. They have a beautiful piece of wood, they hold onto it. He said when he finishes a project he puts the excess wood out on the street and puts a "for free" ad on craigslist.

His shop is right on a shopping street in an up-and-coming area, and people can look in through the window, it's only 800 sq feet, he and his partner have just enough machinery.
He doesn't take on cabinetry work.

It's one thing to know all this, another to use it. I dislike social media. I also have an abundance of beautiful pieces of wood.

[Mark Bolton]

"The other thing to consider is how do you get to the market."

Exactly this. Maybe a year back I met a young man called Josh Jackson who started and runs a very successful woodworking business here in Los Angeles.
He told me point blank "Mark, I'm not a woodworker, I'm an entrepreneur. I know how to use social media to market myself."
He said he knows many people who are better woodworkers than him, who are struggling. They love wood. They have a beautiful piece of wood, they hold onto it. He said when he finishes a project he puts the excess wood out on the street and puts a "for free" ad on craigslist.

His shop is right on a shopping street in an up-and-coming area, and people can look in through the window, it's only 800 sq feet, he and his partner have just enough machinery.
He doesn't take on cabinetry work.

It's one thing to know all this, another to use it. I dislike social media. I also have an abundance of beautiful pieces of wood.

This is the current concept of "fake it till you make it". Your stripping your customers of their hard earned cash supplying work your figuring out how to make while charging top dollar. Makes total.sense in the conversation of people only caring about 3-5 years on a purchase.

Very smart. Sadly many of us cant live with ourselves with such tactics.

[Brian Holcombe]

He’s being modest, he does nice work.

[Patrick Walsh]

I also get kinda mad at people that are good at marketing themself. I’m not the jealous type but I am jealous in this one arena. I have zero motivation to sell or market myself. It’s why I where I am. Where I am isn’t great either but it also is not the worst life.

I should be self employed but it’s totally a ton of work. I just wanna out my head down and make stuff. Sadly there’s always more to it than that.

[Mark Gibney]

For sure he's being modest, yes he does nice work.
I suppose the bigger point he was making in that regard is that he is business savvy. He's also a really good guy.

[Patrick Walsh]

Nothing wrong with that. So what your saying is he is a the rainbow unicorn of the woodworking world personable and not a head case.


For sure he's being modest, yes he does nice work.
I suppose the bigger point he was making in that regard is that he is business savvy. He's also a really good guy.

[Mark Bolton]

Saying... savvy, right place, right time, knows how to surf. No different than a surfer. You have to be able to surf. But your best bet is to be a lucrative spot for wave, and to know how, and be willing to, ride the wave.. and the final component is look good for the camera.

My guess is a few years and it won't be wood.

[Bill Dufour]

Do not know if this applies
or not but... I tried to sell my unisaw to the local used tool store. They did not want it, even for free, they had 3-4 unisaws + a jet + a general. all in almost new condition. They have been setting on the showroom floor for 3-4 months. Ended up giving the saw to a friend.
Bill D.

[Rich Engelhardt]

If your needs are modest and you're not looking to support employees and a true business with overhead, then maybe yes you can find a niche and quietly do alright with it, but this will undoubtedly have a scale barrier, a ceiling.After typing about a dozen examples of niche gone mainstream......I deleted it all and came to the conclusion that - niche gone mainstream is the norm, not the exception.
Some niches are just so universal that they explode and take over as the "success story".


I suppose the bigger point he was making in that regard is that he is business savvy.Exactly - most successful people I know in most businesses "made it" because they had good business sense - not because they were superior mechanics.
Jeeze look at poor Tommy McDonald. The guy does (or did) some really excellent work on his show - - but - as a personality,,,,,,he wasn't Norm... (not saying Norm wasn't or still is great, by any stretch - he was and is!).

You can be the absolute best - whatever.. but, if you don't show up on time for an appointment, don't return calls, show up to a job late - without the materials to do the work - leave early, do your own thing and not what the customer wants - then no matter how good you are - you're in trouble as far as surviving goes. & while I'm at it - if you think in terms of "by the hour" as far as income goes, you're missing the point & you're probably never going to be happy.

[mike waters]

There is money in cabinetmaking, if you have a niche.
For example,
Living in Nashville, TN and offering run-of-the-mill traditional casework cabinetry (boring IMHO) will not make much money.
But, offering frameless (I call it full-access) European contemporary cabinetry, will. My friend took home 170k last year. Which, for a one man shop, is pretty darn good.

I draw and order cabinet boxes(KCD), I order drawers ($20/drawer from cabaxis) and I do not finish wood - period.
Sanding and finishing veneer/paint grade mdf = money lost.
I order 4x8 sheets from premier eurocase, conestoga, northern contours, etc. Cut them down... then get them edgebanded by a local shop.

Paul Akers; 2-second lean changed my life.

good luck.

[Mark e Kessler]

Took home after expenses his profits were 170K? That's impressive, I think the most work I could ever physically get done in one year was about 150k in sales but that was ~25 years ago and not total sure but I think I planned on 120k per employee...

Mark



There is money in cabinetmaking, if you have a niche.
For example,
Living in Nashville, TN and offering run-of-the-mill traditional casework cabinetry (boring IMHO) will not make much money.
But, offering frameless (I call it full-access) European contemporary cabinetry, will. My friend took home 170k last year. Which, for a one man shop, is pretty darn good.

I draw and order cabinet boxes(KCD), I order drawers ($20/drawer from cabaxis) and I do not finish wood - period.
Sanding and finishing veneer/paint grade mdf = money lost.
I order 4x8 sheets from premier eurocase, conestoga, northern contours, etc. Cut them down... then get them edgebanded by a local shop.

Paul Akers; 2-second lean changed my life.

good luck.

[Patrick Walsh]

Not doubting the number.

I’m sure if you have the right corner of the market and are about making money “not cool stuff” or enjoyable tasks you can me quite a bit of money. It’s not gonna be anything to be all that proud of though other than that you made a bunch of money.

My experience has been that if you make money doing this thing it’s because you turned from a maker into the boss or are cranking out some crap product a monkey could build and the joy of making is lost.

Most I ever made in a year was a couple years ago. I came in just under $120k but I worked on average 70 hrs a week. That may be the only time I have ever felt financially comfortable in my life. In my area I’d say that’s exactly how much you have to make. I’m back to working 40 hrs a week and money is a struggle. I’ll make maybe $72-80k this year depending before taxes. Honestly that’s not much 20 minutes west of Boston. Better have a benefactor!

And as a result I semi resent myself for my life choices lol..



Took home after expenses his profits were 170K? That's impressive, I think the most work I could ever physically get done in one year was about 150k in sales but that was ~25 years ago and not total sure but I think I planned on 120k per employee...

Mark

[Mark e Kessler]

I have never made that much as a cabinet maker, I think the most was $25 and hour when I worked for someone and that was with crap benefits that's why I went back to school at 39. the numbers I was quoting was from my biz days and it required 12-15 hours a day 5-6 and sometimes 7 days a week. I definitely miss the freedom but my body is paying for it now...

Mk


Not doubting the number.

I’m sure if you have the right corner of the market and are about making money “not cool stuff” or enjoyable tasks you can me quite a bit of money. It’s not gonna be anything to be all that proud of though other than that you made a bunch of money.

My experience has been that if you make money doing this thing it’s because you turned from a maker into the boss or are cranking out some crap product a monkey could build and the joy of making is lost.

Most I ever made in a year was a couple years ago. I came in just under $120k but I worked on average 70 hrs a week. That may be the only time I have ever felt financially comfortable in my life. In my area I’d say that’s exactly how much you have to make. I’m back to working 40 hrs a week and money is a struggle. I’ll make maybe $72-80k this year depending before taxes. Honestly that’s not much 20 minutes west of Boston. Better have a benefactor!

And as a result I semi resent myself for my life choices lol..

[Doug Dawson]

Other than making kitchen cabinets, is there money in it? I've always kept it as a hobby. I once heard of a guy who won the lottery say he's going to keep wood working until the money runs out. Lol

Try making doors. There's a lot of money in doors.

[Patrick Walsh]

Wow back to school at 39..

May I ask what for. I have never been willing to really take that leap into a whole new life and a few at a standstill.

Might not be the worst idea. I love making stuff though and could never do anything just to make money.


I have never made that much as a cabinet maker, I think the most was $25 and hour when I worked for someone and that was with crap benefits that's why I went back to school at 39. the numbers I was quoting was from my biz days and it required 12-15 hours a day 5-6 and sometimes 7 days a week. I definitely miss the freedom but my body is paying for it now...

Mk

[Mark Bolton]

Having the ability for retraining late in life is usually funded by a package, the state, or a spouse.

[Mark e Kessler]

Mechanical Engineering, manufacturing major with a minor in design and plastics. And let me tell you I am not the academic type, my first attempt at college out of high school was a total failure, I lost all my books in a drunken rage party night (too much to explain...) had no money to buy replacements and too late to get a refund so I switched all my classes to a woodworking program that was available and so the journey began...





Wow back to school at 39..

May I ask what for. I have never been willing to really take that leap into a whole new life and a few at a standstill.

Might not be the worst idea. I love making stuff though and could never do anything just to make money.

[Mark e Kessler]

Somewhat true, Without my Wife It would have been even more difficult but I did do work on the side and had to borrow some money for expenses for the first 1-1.5 years, with hard work and a high GPA I was able to get full scholarships for the last 2 years.

Not everything is a free ride...





Having the ability for retraining late in life is usually funded by a package, the state, or a spouse.

[Mark Hennebury]

Yes! Absolutely!.........but.......if you are 100% businessman you make money anywhere, anytime. If you are 100% Craftsman then you will starve to death......unless,.....funded by spouse or wealthy benefactor.. or you are just incredibly lucky, and all the stars line up for you. Knowledge, skills and hard work alone simply don't make money, you need a lot more than that.
There are Craftsman in business, and there are Businessman in crafts.
Most, I believe, struggle somewhere within the extremes, trying to balance how we would like to do stuff, with how we have to, to survive. It can all turn on a dime, sometimes the economy is good and people have money to burn, then the economy tanks, spending on luxury items like custom woodwork abruptly ceases,. you bills don't,. Then your dream shop gets sold at auction.

Hope that helps.

[John Sincerbeaux]

This topic comes up a lot on this forum.
The short answer is of course you can make money in woodworking. But is a career in WW lucrative and or sustainable can only be answered by the individual.
I have been making money in WW for over 20 years specifically selling through galleries. However, my WW business is heavily subsidized by my other career. I would never try to survive solely on a WW income. Way too labor and equipment intensive. I don’t know many guys more passionate about WW than myself. Been this way since I was 14, but I know I would have burned out years ago just building cabinets. And doing high-end custom furniture takes a very LONG time. You will never get paid for all the hours it actually takes.
I know a career in WW would have never given me, the health care, life insurance, and the pension I now have.

[Doug Dawson]

This topic comes up a lot on this forum.
The short answer is of course you can make money in woodworking. But is a career in WW lucrative and or sustainable can only be answered by the individual.
I have been making money in WW for over 20 years specifically selling through galleries. However, my WW business is heavily subsidized by my other career. I would never try to survive solely on a WW income. Way too labor and equipment intensive. I don’t know many guys more passionate about WW than myself. Been this way since I was 14, but I know I would have burned out years ago just building cabinets. And doing high-end custom furniture takes a very LONG time. You will never get paid for all the hours it actually takes.
I know a career in WW would have never given me, the health care, life insurance, and the pension I now have.

Just about the worst thing you can do is try to compete with other craftsmen on price. That's a race to the bottom, and nobody wins. Compete on quality. Unfortunately, that is not the way of the world now.

It doesn't help that some people are giving it away, practically.

Fie on you, Ikea, fie! (And perceptions of the quality of that genuine simulated wood product.) It damages our way of life.

I'm sticking to the union, I'm sticking to the union....

[Lawrence Decesar]

I Enjoy working with wood and believe it would be difficult to try to make a living at it and also hold another regular job. 10 years ago I bought, remodeled, and rented out a house. I heard all the horror stories about being a landlord. I started looking for other houses close to me that I could buy, fix and rent. I found that once these houses are in good shape, they required very little of my time. The houses required basic woodworking ability, provided a steady income and would allow a woodworker time to pursue his passion. If I were a young woodworker, I would look into buying and repairing older houses to level out my income and help provide for retirement.

[John Makar]

I have dabbled at paid WW, and other fields. My retirement is from corporate and gvment, so the rent is paid and the wolf at the door is picky about its kibble. I could repeat almost word for word what has been said here but applied to web development, windows desktop development, android app development, more distantly back I'd throw in CICS/COBOL contracting, CFP financial plan development, fly fishing guiding, raft guiding, Elderhostel canoe trip guiding. All the fun non-computer stuff is post-retirement (now in year 11, and it has been one heck of a ride). How you make a go... Niche, research, marketing, frugality, clarity of purpose, all them things.

The best advice I ever got on business is from a niche playing author, Jack Falvey: "To be in business you need a customer. If you have one everything else can be purchased. If you don't have one you have a hobby."

That said, long ago Peter Drucker wrote that the life span of SUCCESSFUL businesses was 19 years. The gvment stats on small business are just grim. You make a living at something, any way you can (but do pay your taxes, 'cause them revenuers are pretty nosy). I do have the impression that barriers to entry are lower now than they have been for the last 50 years at least, but that also increases competition.