Dovetails: Leigh verse Omni?

[Michael Drew]

Ya I know, been asked before no doubt....

I'm a hobbyist woodworker, will never go pro. I make furniture and cabinets, mostly. For self and friends. I often incorporate dovetails into the project. I just like how they look I suppose.... No other reason. My drawers tend to be half blind, and I try to cut through DT's on other projects. I've tried to cut them by hand and I simply do not have the time or the skill, and have no interest in mastering that skill, at least not now.

I bought a PC Omni 24" many years ago, maybe 20. I have all the templates too, including the adj through DT template. It's a beast and well made, but jeezus, it's a friggin PITA to set up and use. And as infrequently as I use it, I have to re-learn how to use it every time. And the mess..... It's horribly messy. That takes the fun out of this 'hobby' for me.

When Leigh entered the market, I can recall many wood workers talking about how easy it is to use, and many Omni users moved to the Leigh.

I also have an Incra router table system, and have used it for DT's too, but it sucks for cutting long'ish boards.

The question I'm pondering now has to do with ease of use. I'm considering buying a Leigh 12" Super jig for the bulk of stuff I make with through dovetails, or I might just get the 24" Pro model, but if the Leigh is every bit the PITA to set up and use that my Omni is, then I have just wasted money to use somewhere else..... I know that Leigh has a really good dust collection attachment, and that might just be enough to convince me to buy one.....

I'm hoping someone with experience using both jigs might offer an honest opinion and talk me into, or conversely, out of - buying one of these Leigh Jigs.

[Tim M Tuttle]

I've been looking into dovetail jigs recently and the Leigh gets 5 star reviews all over the place. Much better than the Rockler or PC. I've yet to use any but figured I'd throw that out there.

[Richard Coers]

If it's the setup that bothers you, buy a Keller. You set the fixture one time to match the diameter of the bit, and never again. All you have to do next time is set the height of the bit for the material thickness. The tightness of the joint never changes with a bit install. When I want a half blind, I glue an oversized piece of 1/8" thick hardwood to the front and trim it to the drawer front with a flush trim bit. When doing drawers, you can invert the fixture and use it on a router table.

[Jeff Monson]

I bought a PC Omni 24" many years ago, maybe 20. I have all the templates too, including the adj through DT template. It's a beast and well made, but jeezus, it's a friggin PITA to set up and use. And as infrequently as I use it, I have to re-learn how to use it every time. And the mess..... It's horribly messy. That takes the fun out of this 'hobby' for me.



Amen to that!! Its quite a piece of work, and it does work well, but yes thats a tool I dont want to ever loose the manual on!!

[keith wootton]

+ 1 on the ease of set up of the keller. had a leigh and sold it, it was a pita to set up.

[Tom M King]

Once you get the Leigh dialed in, there is nothing to change but the dovetail spacing. That is, if you only use it for one thickness of wood, and keep two dedicated routers. Otherwise, I wouldn't want to bother with one.

[Jerry Thompson]

I'm about to give up on the Leigh. I have yet to do through dove tails. I got it to do half blinds but I think I'll go back to my Keller and if I need half blinds on drawers I'll just put a piece over a through dove tail box to make it appear to be HB.

[johnny means]

I've had both. The Leigh is just designed and built just a tad better. It seems to hold settings better and has less slop to account for during setup.

[David Justice]

I have the most expensive Leigh Jig and I hate the thing. I dread having to use it, so much so that I just learned to cut them by hand, it's faster and much less annoying.

The main thing that I dislike about the Leigh jig, aside from long set up and testing times was the tearout. I don't think I have ever used it when tearout didn't occur. I did every suggested trick, but I always got some.

[Frank Martin]

Take a look into Router Boss. Entirely different way of cutting dovetails and whole a lot of other joints. I first had a Leigh, for the same reasons you state and the sheer versatility moved to WoodRat, which is basically the concept Router Boss is based on. Still has some learning curve, but much easier than Leigh, at least for me.

[Malcolm McLeod]

I'm about to give up on the Leigh. I have yet to do through dove tails. I got it to do half blinds but I think I'll go back to my Keller and if I need half blinds on drawers I'll just put a piece over a through dove tail box to make it appear to be HB.

Through-DTs on the Leigh are much easier than HB-DT ... IMHO. HBs involve a lot of trial-and-error, as it sounds like you know! Be sure to cut extra drawer stock.

It works great when you have a kitchen (of drawers) to build. Like any jig, it shines in (semi-)production use.

Add: No matter which I'm cutting, I cut 3-4 short pieces (just enough for the clamp to grab) of drawer stock. Each has 2 ends to test with, but usually only takes 2 cuts to dial-in through-DTs, 3 for HB-DT.

[Michael Drew]

I reckon I need to give the Keller another look. I did not think it had adjustable spacing though? That is one thing I do like, as I'm not "locked" into a standard divisible width of whatever I'm fitting together.

I spent the weekend making a bathroom shelving unit out of hickory to match my cabinets. Through DT's and sliding DT's for the shelves. All 3/4" stuff. I must have used up four feet of board just getting the stupid thing set up (all waste and dust). Five hours of set up, maybe half an hour cutting the real joints. And, even with backing boards, I still tore out in a couple places - right where I'll see them forever.....gggrrrrr.... Made me hate doing it. If the Leigh is as difficult, or even close, then screw it. Sounds like the Leigh isn't much better than the Omnijig. Dang it.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I have to relearn the Leigh nearly every time I use it, but at least they have a really good manual. I would not say that it is simple, but I do like it.

[Joe Hendershott]

It works great when you have a kitchen (of drawers) to build.

Yes! Since it is a PITA to setup the more you have to do the better. When I think about using mine for 6 or 8 drawers I just do box jpints and swallow my pride.

[Paul F Franklin]

As long as we're talking DT jigs....what about the Leigh RTJ400 jig for use with a router table. I understand it doesn't do variable spacing, but it seems like it might be easier to set up and use? Anyone have experience with it?

[michael dilday]

I had a porter cable but bought the Leigh router table jig RTJ400 https://www.leightools.com/rtj400-overview/. It is a great jig.

[Ron Selzer]

I have a Leigh 3 that has been upgraded, bought it used. I have 2 routers PC 690's set up when using it, 1/2" bits, foot switches for each router and the dust collection.
I think it is fantastic, not at all what I expected after reading all the bad reviews. I change the settings for each width of drawer, case carcass, etc.
Bought it to make drawers for a 6' high chest for my wife. Even spaced the dovetails, dropping one each time the drawers got smaller the higher they got. Use a center rule to set all of the guides as evenly as I can. Follow the directions and take my time setting it up as I am normally not very patient. Found it easy to setup and change to the next size, Had no blow outs and got the joint to fit good enough for me. YMMV. This was in 30 year old popular that was very hard. Next up build a chest out of cherry that is 5' long x 20" deep x 36" high with dovetails on all corners. All drawers were thru dovetailed equally spaced, all 4 sizes/heights. kept subtracting one dovetail each time. I had to build the jig up and stand on a platform to cut the top, bottom of the case and the front, backs of the drawers. Getting ready to get it out again to make a 4' high chest for granddaughter with all dovetail corners. I have nothing but good to say about the Leigh jig. I can't stand the small dovetails on the fixed jigs. I used to cut dovetails by hand not any more.
Good luck
Ron

[Brian Ross]

I have had a Leigh jig for about 40 years and use it for making half blind dovetails for the kitchens I build. Probably do 100 drawers a year. Not trying to insult anyone but if you are having problems you are not following along in the manual. The beauty of hb’s is that you only need one router. Years ago I made through DT’s but when making 25 drawers and have 100 pieces of wood I would inevidently cut pins on a piece when it needed tails. I have found the bits from Leigh seem to stand up much better than others I have tried.

Brian

[Richard Coers]

I have had a Leigh jig for about 40 years and use it for making half blind dovetails for the kitchens I build. Probably do 100 drawers a year. Not trying to insult anyone but if you are having problems you are not following along in the manual. The beauty of hb’s is that you only need one router. Years ago I made through DT’s but when making 25 drawers and have 100 pieces of wood I would inevidently cut pins on a piece when it needed tails. I have found the bits from Leigh seem to stand up much better than others I have tried.

Brian
Not trying to insult anyone here, but if you cut pins on a board when it needed tails, you are not following along in the manual! LOL

[Warren Lake]

the half blinds look poor compared to through dovetails. The usual standard, you see even on the Offshore stuff. Maybe they have smartened up and stopped knocking pre finished front and sides together where they dont even line up flush. Junk. The through you make your own spacing, the tails are larger look better as you dont have that consistent look the half blind do. You get about 80 percent as nice looking as a hand cut when you use that jig set up for through dovetails. Sure its a bit slower to do the through ones but its still a nicer looking drawer. ive only used the Leigh jig but it does a good job. I found two or three simple things I didnt like, memory says pieces slipping had to put sandpaper on one measure a hair off and remember tightening down one nut would change a setting. Through dovetails it gives nice results.

[jeff norris 2011]

Had the Leigh for years. It is not an 'easy' set up but once you do it a few times, it takes very little time to make perfect joints.

I could see it being an issue though if you are just making one drawer or one box at a time, where the jig excels is blasting off many drawers. For one drawer I suspect I could hand cut them faster than doing the set of the jig and then routing them out.

[jeff norris 2011]

Not trying to insult anyone here, but if you cut pins on a board when it needed tails, you are not following along in the manual! LOL

The manual is flawless..... if you follow it!

I even make sure to follow their marking system to make sure not to make silly errors and keep the manual out when I am cutting DT's even though I have plenty of use on the machine.

[Mark Hockenberg]

Michael - I had a Leigh. I used it to make through dovetails on one project then sold it. It did a great job, it's built well, and it gets the best reviews. There's a learning curve and it will feel cumbersome for awhile.

I wanted a jig again and picked up a used Porter Cable. It's not built like the old Omni - Lighter duty but works well. For me, the Leigh isn't worth the money for the few drawers I build. When I want great furniture quality drawers with great finish, I call a local drawer shop and have them made. I can't touch the quality for the small premium.

You see used dovetail jigs all the time. That tells me a lot of people don't use them very often.

[Michael Drew]

I had a porter cable but bought the Leigh router table jig RTJ400 https://www.leightools.com/rtj400-overview/. It is a great jig.

I checked one of those out, but as it's fixed spacing, decided to move on. Almost the same price as one of the super jigs too.

[Jon Nuckles]

I had a Leigh jig. I was drawn to it by the ability to do variable spacing. It worked very well, but I didn't use it often enough to remember all of the set up information from one time to the next. The manual is very good and, while set up requires test pieces and adjustments, it creates good joints once dialed in.

I had two issues with the jig, which caused me to give it away and cut my dovetails by hand. First, while variable spacing can make the joints look better than uniform spacing, the minimum pin size was not thin enough to be visually pleasing to my eye. You can only get so thin with a router bit. I prefer the look of pins that taper to not much more than a saw kerf. They're not as strong as evenly spaced pins and tails, but they just look better to me and they are strong enough for my projects. Second, the process of routing dovetails is noisy, dusty and generally no fun. (I didn't have the dust collection accessory for my Leigh jig, so I don't know how much it might reduce the mess.) For the number of dovetails I incorporate in my projects, cutting them by hand is fast enough and is enjoyable to me.

Now a confession: I recently made the kitchen cabinets for my home. I had to do 21 drawers (84 corners) ranging from 4+" to 8+" inches tall. Rather than cut those by hand, I bought the cheap Porter Cable jig that does only half blind dovetails. I wouldn't use it for furniture projects because the dovetails are obviously machine made, but it worked well and quickly for kitchen drawers. For just over $100, including the necessary bit, it was well worth it, even if I never use it again.

[Tim Otto]

Since it is a hobby, why not learn to cut them by hand. It is not difficult, you are only sawing to a line. However, if you do not have sharp tools, it will be frustrating. Experience starts when you begin. It is far more gratifying than the scream of a router.

[Randy Heinemann]

I also own the Porter Cable 24" Omnjig, believing that I would some day make a couple of projects which would justify the 24" capacity. I never have. I doubt that the Leigh jigs would significantly change the setup time. I think the problem with dovetail jigs is that, for guys like me who love woodworking, don't want to spend the time to master hand cut dovetails, and use these tools infrequently, the setup on any dovetail jig or system becomes tedious because it is a learning process each time. The Omnijig does a fantastic job, as does the Incra system. For what I do I generally have now used my Incra table and fence. I'm sorry I own the Omnijig and would be equally sorry if I bought a Leigh jig (although they are arguably one of the best). As for the RTJ400 the demos I've seen indicate that, although it might be easier to set up (debatable though) it makes a mess, not allowing good dust collection even with high end dust collectors and/or vacs.

[michael dilday]

I have a PC and don't like it. Seems inconsistent. I purchased the Leigh RJT400 and it is great IMO. The jig that goes on the router table.

[Michael Drew]

Thanks for all the input. I still don't know what I'm gong to do, but you all have given me plenty of sound advice and I thank you for that.

Variable spaced through DTs are important to me. That eliminates the router table Leigh jig, although that one does look to be the simplest to use.

I just learned that Festool made a DT jig a few years ago. I found a couple videos on YouTube, but it appears that jig is not available anymore? Considering the functionality and thought that Festool puts into their power tools, they could certainly make a DT jig that's simple to use, but high in quality.

[Bill Dufour]

One tip is I use a 1/4" carbide spiral endmill, set a hair high, to rough out the dovetails with the jig. Cheap enough bit to toss rather then sharpen and it saves the expensive dovetail bit from wearing out. I leave it in my second router when making drawers.

[michael dilday]

You should check out the Leigh RTJ400. It works on a router table. If you have a router lift on a router table you will love it. At least I love mine.