Do people talk you out of wood working?

[Travis Conner]

Every time I'm building something, someone always comes along and says you don't need to build that, just go do this or buy one of these. I was making wooden ramps and someone came by and said you can just use my vehicle lift. Lol. Yes I guess all these tools are just for looks.

[Frederick Skelly]

Use the man's vehicle lift if he's offering, Travis. You wont regret it. ;)
But yah, I get some of that too. Until they see a piece of furniture they like and realize they can't afford it. Then they think my woodworking is great. Funny how that works.

[Travis Conner]

No it wasn't going to work. Too wide.

[Flamone LaChaud]

No, and the main reason is that we've had enough mass market furniture that "kinda" worked for what we wanted it for . . . but it didn't last well for the long haul. If I do it, it's exactly what I/we want, it's guaranteed to fit, and it both looks nice and is mostly bomb-proof. Plus, if there is ever a problem with it - it's 99%of the time fixable.

[John TenEyck]

No, most people hope I'll make something for them.

John

[Jim Becker]

No, most people hope I'll make something for them.



Same...although the common theme is that they "think" it's going to cost less than at the store and for many of them, their favorite stores are places like Wally-World. Not going to happen. LOL

-----

Travis, there are many folks who are lost to the concept that we can make things and even enjoy it. Enjoy the craft for your own reasons!

[Mark Bolton]

The scenario your going to run into is that many people who walk into your shop are going to arm-chair quarterback everything you do. Its easy when your not doing anything other than looking over someones shoulder who is trying work, has the back channel conversation of being profitable, doing the drawings, shipping the paperwork, thinking about the install process, all while they are making product, and you will have some "yay-hoo" in the shop yammering endlessly that "what you should be doing... " .... "you know what you need...." " you need to go here and do .... "

Everyone has the answer and they will diarrhea an instant response to whatever your doing without thinking 0.05 steps down the road to where their "nugget of wisdom" falls flat on its face which turns out to just be a money losing jaw jack into a "spitballing" conversation that in their minds is about profitability when in all reality the facts of the situation are that you should have escorted them out the door of your shop forcefully the instant they walked in.

There are some good rules in this business whether your in business or not.

#1. Eliminate ANY and ALL non-profit potential traffic from the shop.

#2. Have a firm, direct, rude, and or forceful, means to evacuate any non-profit potential individual from your shop as quickly as possible.

#3. And this is likely the hardest... Eliminate any back chatter in your head from any of the above individuals while your working in your shop.


People will walk into your space daily who have never made a bird house and begin to tell you everything you should, could, or must, be doing differently, without a single ounce of thought with regards to your workflow, why, how, the downstream repercussions, and so on. Because they account ZERO DOLLARS FOR THEIR TIME, its a beat off for them to stand in your shop wasting yours while you have to explain the flaws in each of their solutions.

Your single most effective option is to simple kick them out.. immediately.

I cant tell you the people that I have been so relieved to offend beyond belief and have them walk out the door knowing they will never come back. They are the individuals that will never spend a dime with me. They will never recommend anyone to me. And the people in the circles they run are exactly the same as them.

More often than not I have had someone contact me and say that XYZ (blowhard) said you kicked him out of your shop... which makes me think your someone I would like to have do work for me...

Dont be afraid to defend your boundaries. Foot traffic will cost you more lost time than most any other money loser in your shop.

[Andrew More]

Somewhat. My wife often makes the argument she'd just rather order something, and have it show up. Having seen some of the things her family has made, I think she's secretly worried it will turn out like that.

Also I find Ikea hard to compete with. At one point they had a pre-finished line of Pine furniture that was very good, at impossibly low prices. For good enough, it's not something I think a wood worker is going to be able to beat in a home shop.

[Ron Selzer]

The scenario your going to run into is that many people who walk into your shop are going to arm-chair quarterback everything you do. Its easy when your not doing anything other than looking over someones shoulder who is trying work, has the back channel conversation of being profitable, doing the drawings, shipping the paperwork, thinking about the install process, all while they are making product, and you will have some "yay-hoo" in the shop yammering endlessly that "what you should be doing... " .... "you know what you need...." " you need to go here and do .... "

Everyone has the answer and they will diarrhea an instant response to whatever your doing without thinking 0.05 steps down the road to where their "nugget of wisdom" falls flat on its face which turns out to just be a money losing jaw jack into a "spitballing" conversation that in their minds is about profitability when in all reality the facts of the situation are that you should have escorted them out the door of your shop forcefully the instant they walked in.

There are some good rules in this business whether your in business or not.

#1. Eliminate ANY and ALL non-profit potential traffic from the shop.

#2. Have a firm, direct, rude, and or forceful, means to evacuate any non-profit potential individual from your shop as quickly as possible.

#3. And this is likely the hardest... Eliminate any back chatter in your head from any of the above individuals while your working in your shop.


People will walk into your space daily who have never made a bird house and begin to tell you everything you should, could, or must, be doing differently, without a single ounce of thought with regards to your workflow, why, how, the downstream repercussions, and so on. Because they account ZERO DOLLARS FOR THEIR TIME, its a beat off for them to stand in your shop wasting yours while you have to explain the flaws in each of their solutions.

Your single most effective option is to simple kick them out.. immediately.

I cant tell you the people that I have been so relieved to offend beyond belief and have them walk out the door knowing they will never come back. They are the individuals that will never spend a dime with me. They will never recommend anyone to me. And the people in the circles they run are exactly the same as them.

More often than not I have had someone contact me and say that XYZ (blowhard) said you kicked him out of your shop... which makes me think your someone I would like to have do work for me...

Dont be afraid to defend your boundaries. Foot traffic will cost you more lost time than most any other money loser in your shop.

VERY, VERY WELL SAID!!

Ron

[Ron Selzer]

Not at home, at work yes or more so tell me how it should be done when they have no real clue on what to do.
Just went thru this with a boss two steps up telling me i had to produce 60 shelf units on wheels in less than 2 weeks with no qualified help. Did I mention no saw to cut it with other than a hand circular saw. When i mentioned that he said to get him prices, like he can get 4-6k approved, and I can get a saw located, shipped in. installed and wired in 2 days, be damn hard to do in a month. Still have a few years to go till retirement, getting less every year. Fortunately i had bought a Rigid radial arm saw off of ebay and brought it to work to use for odds and ends. So trained one guy to help me cut Baltic Birch 3/4 plywood and we got to it. Then the boss gets the great idea "we" had to have an assembly line going with anyone who wanted to assembling shelves, fortunately only a few decent guys wanted to and actually learned and did good at it. The "assembly line" consisted of 6 folding tables, 2 air compressors, 4 nail guns and 2 routers. No time or money to set a proper line up. Everyone survived, one injury, a nail in the hand. Done ahead of time and I still have a job.
Ron

[Ron Selzer]

At home my wife doesn't care what I make or how long it takes, not even what it costs. She knows where I am at instead of being gone to a bar, golf course, strip club or whatever.
She does get concerned about the tools I buy, mainly how much money goes out.
Her criteria is it has to have knots so that people know it is real wood, no paint or heavy stain, minimum to no plywood, and moveable as she rearranges furniture constantly.

[Stephen Rosenthal]

Some do, until they see examples of some of my work. Then some want me to build something for them, until I tell them what it will cost. Some say okay, some gulp and say they’ll think about it. Some return and say build it, some don’t. But no one has ever told me how to build something or asked why I do woodworking. Maybe I’ve just been lucky in that regard.

[Pete Staehling]

No, I can't say that I can recall anyone every trying to talk me out of wood working.

[Brian Tymchak]

Oddly enough, I recently got a comment from someone in the woodworking group I belong to that he didn't understand why I was building a timber-frame inspired lumber rack... I was a bit stunned, so I just told him I needed one and I'm a woodworker so....? and then walked away.. Some people are just a grouch..

[Josh Laliberte]

I hear this all the time "Why don't you just hire someone". Its sad but I'm sure a lot of people here feel the same way but I don't trust anyone....well, there are a few and I have used those people but as a whole I just don't. If it can be built, chances are it will be built by me in my shop vs being bought. Recently just finished building my new house. Yes I did it alone with some help from my dad but out of the entire place the only thing I had a sub in for was the foundation, drywall and standing seam roof. Otherwise it was all a product of my hands. Framing, electrical, plumbing, insulation, paint, I milled all my own trim, beaded inset cabinets, tile, hardwood, etc. I guess people just don't understand what it is to have pride in what you do and would just assume let someone do everything for them. Not this guy.

[Lee Schierer]

When it comes to things made of wood, my wife and kids are well schooled on woodworking workmanship and quality. While I can't compete with mass produced wood items the things I make will last several lifetimes.

I occasionally have people asking about having something made for them. As noted above most are shocked by just the cost of materials. They have no idea of the labor involved. My prices are probably well below the custom woodworking market level but I'm not in it to pay shop overhead and it keeps me going.

[John Goodin]

Most people are amazed that I have ability to undertake and complete such projects. It is not my skills are that great, there are not, I must just look like the neighborhood idiot.

[Andrew More]

Most people are amazed that I have ability to undertake and complete such projects. It is not my skills are that great, there are not, I must just look like the neighborhood idiot.

It's been my experience that most people are pretty helpless. They can't change their oil, do basic home repairs, deal with simple computer problems, understand plumbing or electricity, or a variety of other things. Being able to build your own wood projects must seem like pure witchery to such people.

[Edwin Santos]

It's been my experience that most people are pretty helpless. They can't change their oil, do basic home repairs, deal with simple computer problems, understand plumbing or electricity, or a variety of other things. Being able to build your own wood projects must seem like pure witchery to such people.

I've never had anyone try and talk me out of woodworking. I'm not sure what anyone would have to gain by doing so. Sometimes people will marvel at how much time and effort is involved, which might be what the OP is getting at.

I agree with the above. Most people are highly dependent on hiring someone to solve most of life's problems. Maybe I'm eccentric, but I get a huge sense of independence and liberation from being able to fix things myself, build things myself. Being as self sufficient as possible is a gift.

To me taking a stack of boards and converting them into something functional and beautiful is like magic.

[Andrew More]

I've never had anyone try and talk me out of woodworking. I'm not sure what anyone would have to gain by doing so.

Drag you down in the hole they're in. Sometimes it's easier to pull somebody else down, than to pull yourself up.


I agree with the above. Most people are highly dependent on hiring someone to solve most of life's problems. Maybe I'm eccentric, but I get a huge sense of independence and liberation from being able to fix things myself, build things myself. Being as self sufficient as possible is a gift.

To me taking a stack of boards and converting them into something functional and beautiful is like magic.

I agree 100%. I'd extend that to a lot of other things in life besides woodworking. Sometimes when I talk about doing my own electrical, or climbing ladders people bring up the dangers. I can respect somebody's decision to not want to take certain risks, so I get that. Sometimes it's just dumb, like such as when it comes to simple things like painting or doing drywall.

I also hear the "What's your time worth?" argument, but I've yet to hear it from somebody who was capable of turning their time into more money, and wasn't using it as a cop-out. I'm sure there are people who can make that trade, but it's far fewer than the ones making the argument.

I also understand that some people are just not talented in certain ways, though I think talent comes into it a lot less than people might think. One of the things I've noticed with wood working is that the right combination of jigs and technique can avoid a lot of talent problems. Maybe not when it comes to carving things by hand, but a lot of other stuff, just using the tool corrects for it.

[mike stenson]

I also hear the "What's your time worth?" argument, but I've yet to hear it from somebody who was capable of turning their time into more money, and wasn't using it as a cop-out. I'm sure there are people who can make that trade, but it's far fewer than the ones making the argument.


Let me pose this in a different manner. If the task is something you hate doing, does hiring it out cost less than your time is worth or not? I paid someone to come and reseal screws on a metal roof. Can I do that? Sure, it's not rocket science. Was it worth the couple hundred to have one less task on my list? Especially one I really don't enjoy? Absolutely.

[Edwin Santos]

Let me pose this in a different manner. If the task is something you hate doing, does hiring it out cost less than your time is worth or not? I paid someone to come and reseal screws on a metal roof. Can I do that? Sure, it's not rocket science. Was it worth the couple hundred to have one less task on my list? Especially one I really don't enjoy? Absolutely.

I agree with you 100% but I just characterize it a little differently. I see it as trading away aggravation for money. It's more to do with quality of life than economics. I do it all the time. Any job I enjoy is not a chore.

You made a rational choice with the screw reseal job even though you are capable of doing it yourself.
I think what Andrew was getting at is many people don't have the option of doing it themselves and then rain on those that do.

[Andrew More]

I agree with you 100% but I just characterize it a little differently. I see it as trading away aggravation for money. It's more to do with quality of life than economics.
Exactly. Avoiding misery is one of the best uses of money, IMHO. Though I think what's miserable is somewhat subjective. I'd also add in your example, that anything to do with a roof is high risk as well.


I think what Andrew was getting at is many people don't have the option of doing it themselves and then rain on those that do.
Honestly, I respect people who can't do for themselves. I've helped out my neighbor a few times, but she's 80s, and no longer capable.

When one of my 20 something friends tells me they can't, and they're clearly physically and mentally up to the challenge, my opinion of them drops. Worse, I've never had my 80s year old neighbor make such comments, but I have had some 20 somethings make these sorts of comments.

[mike stenson]

I think what Andrew was getting at is many people don't have the option of doing it themselves and then rain on those that do.

Sure, but I went and re-read this thread. I'd have offered my lift (assuming I had one) too, just because working on the floor sucks in comparison.

[Jim Becker]

Let me pose this in a different manner. If the task is something you hate doing, does hiring it out cost less than your time is worth or not? I paid someone to come and reseal screws on a metal roof. Can I do that? Sure, it's not rocket science. Was it worth the couple hundred to have one less task on my list? Especially one I really don't enjoy? Absolutely.

This is a valid thing, Mike. There absolutely are certain tasks that I choose not to do for one or more reasons including the task being something I really don't enjoy, especially if it's pretty involved. Sometimes it's for safety reasons...like I don't prefer to get up on the roof anymore if I can avoid it. I try not to do gas line work, too.

I think that around the original question, however, I'll stay with the very real fact that so many folks today don't actually understand that they "can" do things, that they "can" build things and that they don't understand that many people actually enjoy creating and building and so forth. Those folks are often inclined to express something akin to "why would you even want to do that?" I guess it's how they grew up which clearly was different than me. There are a lot of things that I can afford to hire out, but I prefer to do them because 1) ,I can and 2), I enjoy it. But as in my first paragraph, I try not to be stupid about it, too. :)

[kent wardecke]

At home my wife doesn't care what I make or how long it takes, not even what it costs. She knows where I am at instead of being gone to a bar, golf course, strip club or whatever.
She does get concerned about the tools I buy, mainly how much money goes out.
Her criteria is it has to have knots so that people know it is real wood, no paint or heavy stain, minimum to no plywood, and moveable as she rearranges furniture constantly.

Quite reasonable, I think your wife is a swell gal.

[Andrew More]

I think that around the original question, however, I'll stay with the very real fact that so many folks today don't actually understand that they "can" do things, that they "can" build things and that they don't understand that many people actually enjoy creating and building and so forth. Those folks are often inclined to express something akin to "why would you even want to do that?" I guess it's how they grew up which clearly was different than me.

That's a much better way to express it. There seems to be a bit of a learned helplessness, along with everything becoming more and more specialized. People seem to think they need to be an expert in something before doing it, which won't happen if they don't do it...

[Rich Aldrich]

I haven't had anyone try to talk me out of it but they tell me all I do is work. How is it work when you enjoy it. It gives me a sense of accomplishment and normally results in something I can be proud of. A few times it resulted in fuel for my outdoor wood boiler, but I learned something and got some BTUs out of it.