Least expensive way to get 10' walls

[David Justice]

I'm in the planning stages of a new shop. I'm going to be my own contractor, so I will be buying all of the materials and I'm wondering the best way to get 10' ceilings in the shop? It's going to be on a 6" concrete slab, so I'm wondering if I should I buy 10' boards for framing or use cinder blocks or 24" built up footing around the bottom edge?

I'm in NC.

Any thoughts? Thanks!

[Walter Mooney]

IMO, buy 10’ 2x4s or 2x6s. No question. The other stuff would be way too much time and work, and another horizontal joint you’d have to contend with.

[Flamone LaChaud]

I'm going to say depends on external grade. If you're not in a flood zone, or the shop will be at the high point of your property - 10 foot studs should be fine. If you are in a flood zone, or if the shop has the potential to have water flowing past it in heavy rains . . .one or two courses of block at the bottom that can be more effectively waterproofed, and then studs on top of that is a better answer.

[Andrew Seemann]

You should be able to get precut 10' studs and 10' OSB, although the 10' OSB is a little spendy compared to 8' or 9' OSB.

Another option, which is what I did, is to put a row of 6" wide cinder block on the foundation and go with a 9' wall system (9' precut 2x6 studs and 9' OSB). That gets you about a 9' 8" ceiling, and puts the bottom of the wood 8" above the slab. Then you are covered for your 6" separation between wood and ground code requirement.

I have raised a wall on a two block curb wall (16") and it is a bit unnerving. I can't imagine trying to balance a wall on 24" of curb wall without a lot of folks helping and holding.

[Jim Andrew]

If you want a stem wall to raise your wall, use poured concrete. Buy a cinder block, hold it up above your driveway and drop it. You can then see the quality of building material cinder blocks are. Concrete blocks are a little better, but a whole lot heavier.

[Bruce Wrenn]

If you want a stem wall to raise your wall, use poured concrete. Buy a cinder block, hold it up above your driveway and drop it. You can then see the quality of building material cinder blocks are. Concrete blocks are a little better, but a whole lot heavier.Do you have any idea of the compression strength of a Solite block? 2000PSI nominal face size. This means two faces (webs don't count") X 16" X 2000PSI, or 64,000 pounds. Never tell the building inspector it's going to be a garage workshop. If you do, then the floor will have to be sloped towards the door. Instead, pour a door lip as part of your slab.

[Wayne Cannon]

FWIW, my shop from previous welder-owner has four courses of concrete block along the uphill wall (all above grade) . It is frequently a pain when I want to attach something. One or two courses wouldn't be such an annoyance.

[Robert Engel]

I don't see a need for stem wall unless the grade of the land dictates. It will add a huge amount of work and a bigger footer will be needed.

10' precut studs are available. 2x4's will suffice unless you're looking for more insulation. 2x6's will significantly increase cost for a little more insulation not worth it IMHO.

Curious do you need a permit? A friend of mine built a house up there told me he no req for permit.

[Bill Dufour]

All this talk of block has me wondering. I have never seen block used for structural stuff in my lifetime except they do build commercial building out of block. All foundations are cast in place concrete with rebar and tie downs. There are a few block houses around built in the 40's and fifties. I know of two cast concrete houses, both two stories built in the 1920's. I would have to call them mansions.
Bill D

[mike stenson]

All this talk of block has me wondering. I have never seen block used for structural stuff in my lifetime except they do build commercial building out of block. All foundations are cast in place concrete with rebar and tie downs. There are a few block houses around built in the 40's and fifties. I know of two cast concrete houses, both two stories built in the 1920's. I would have to call them mansions.
Bill D

Slump block is one of the most common residential building materials around here. Why slump? It looks more like adobes.

FWIW, I haven't actually seen a REAL cinder block in decades, and that was on an old building even then

[Dan Hulbert]

Slump block is one of the most common residential building materials around here. Why slump? It looks more like adobes.

FWIW, I haven't actually seen a REAL cinder block in decades, and that was on an old building even then

The place I'm living in now was built using insulated concrete forms from the basement to the eaves. The separate three car garage and 10 X 12 pump house were both built with block to the eaves. This was in 2006.

Some folks still build this way.

[mike stenson]

The place I'm living in now was built using insulated concrete forms from the basement to the eaves. The separate three car garage and 10 X 12 pump house were both built with block to the eaves. This was in 2006.

Some folks still build this way.

Sure, I live in an adobe and timber framed structure. It's not as commonly done as it once was, but it's still done. It's pretty efficient in the desert, as is block construction. Your blocks aren't made of cinder though. They're concrete.

[David Justice]

Yes, I need a permit, I have already gone through the process of getting one and now just trying to line up workers to do the jobs. It certainly sounds like 10' 2x4 or 2x6 is the way to go. I'm thinking of paying a bit extra for quite Bat insulation, to sound proof a little. I'm in a development where all the houses are on 1 acre lots, so my neighbors aren't right next door, but I' still like to keep the sound down as much as I can.

[Jim Becker]

All this talk of block has me wondering. I have never seen block used for structural stuff in my lifetime except they do build commercial building out of block. All foundations are cast in place concrete with rebar and tie downs. There are a few block houses around built in the 40's and fifties. I know of two cast concrete houses, both two stories built in the 1920's. I would have to call them mansions.
Bill D

Most foundations around here were built with block but there is growing use of poured concrete in forms, especially by custom builders. The largest "neighborhood" home builders, including those that do some pretty big residences, still use block foundations in many cases. My previous home had a block foundation. The 2200 sq ft addition we put on our current home in 2008 has a block foundation.

----

David, the insulation will certainly help a little with noise abatement, but will also help keep your shop more comfortable, even if you don't put in an HVAC system. Totally worth it, IMHO.

[mike stenson]

Yes, I need a permit, I have already gone through the process of getting one and now just trying to line up workers to do the jobs. It certainly sounds like 10' 2x4 or 2x6 is the way to go. I'm thinking of paying a bit extra for quite Bat insulation, to sound proof a little. I'm in a development where all the houses are on 1 acre lots, so my neighbors aren't right next door, but I' still like to keep the sound down as much as I can.

Go 2x6, for the insulation alone.

[roger wiegand]

Anything else I might get to build in my life will get done with offset double 2x4 walls. You all but eliminate thermal bridging, get superior sound transmission reduction, and can get very high R value walls using relatively inexpensive blown in cellulose. Material cost is close to 2x6's, a bit more labor, but you make up the cost because you can achieve very good insulation much cheaper-- no exotic materials or need to wrap the exterior in foam to limit thermal bridging. I think it's really a winning strategy.

[Greg Funk]

All this talk of block has me wondering. I have never seen block used for structural stuff in my lifetime except they do build commercial building out of block. All foundations are cast in place concrete with rebar and tie downs. There are a few block houses around built in the 40's and fifties. I know of two cast concrete houses, both two stories built in the 1920's. I would have to call them mansions.
Bill DI don't think blocks would survive an earthquake. Not used around here either.

[Scott T Smith]

David, personally in NC I would install a 2' knee wall made from either brick or concrete block and then use 8' studs on top.

The reason why is termites.

The added benefit is that 8' studs are typically less costly per bd. ft than 10' studs, and that is a small offset for the cost of the block.

If you choose to use concrete block, you can fill the inner cavities with mortar and rebar as you build it and it will be very strong.

[Tom Dixon]

David, personally in NC I would install a 2' knee wall made from either brick or concrete block and then use 8' studs on top.

The reason why is termites.

The added benefit is that 8' studs are typically less costly per bd. ft than 10' studs, and that is a small offset for the cost of the block.

If you choose to use concrete block, you can fill the inner cavities with mortar and rebar as you build it and it will be very strong.

+1 for block knee wall approach. That is how I built my 24'x36' shop in TN. 2' 8" wall on poured foundation. Concrete for the floor was poured inside the block. Walls are 8' 2x6s. Here is my entire workshop plan in Sketchup http://www.teetomterrific.com/downloads/WorkshopPlan_1-20-2020.skp It is huge and takes a while to open but every aspect of building it is in 60+ layers so you can un-build it to view framing, trusses, insulation, drywall, etc. You might find it helpful for your planning.

[mike stenson]

Anything else I might get to build in my life will get done with offset double 2x4 walls. You all but eliminate thermal bridging, get superior sound transmission reduction, and can get very high R value walls using relatively inexpensive blown in cellulose. Material cost is close to 2x6's, a bit more labor, but you make up the cost because you can achieve very good insulation much cheaper-- no exotic materials or need to wrap the exterior in foam to limit thermal bridging. I think it's really a winning strategy.

This works very well. Our last house the living room and my shop shared a wall, so I did this. From what I was told, it wasn't too loud in the living room when machinery was running.

[Jim Andrew]

A few years ago there were storms with tornados that hit schools. The schools were not strong enough to protect the kids, so now they are building tornado shelters inside schools, or new schools of stronger material than block. Filling block with concrete makes the wall stronger, but not as strong as reinforced concrete. Anyone ever cut a hole in a block wall? I have, and it is not difficult. Cut along the perimeter, then just take a hammer and break up the center.

[michael dilday]

Unless you need the block simplest and probably least expensive would be go 10' studs with horizontal wallboard / ply or osb inside IMO.

[Tom Bender]

David has hit the nail on the head, so if you don't want to be playing whack a mole with the termites keep the wood up a bit. Metal door frames would be best also.

Whatever you use of the foundation wall, block or poured concrete, just extend it up.

[Bill Dufour]

I always thought block was filled with concrete not mortar? I think concrete is stronger and cheaper then mortar. Certainly seems to be a regional difference in block or cast concrete for foundations.
Bil lD