I finally did it, bought a Festool Domino

[David Sloan]

Have looked at all the Festool tools for years at places like Woodcraft and Highland in Atlanta. Considered them overpriced like many. But I broke down and drank the green koolaid. I bought the Domino 500 Emerald edition. I am floored by its quality and how beautifully it works.Like my Sawstop 3hp PCS worth the money! Thinking there might be more Systainers in my future!

[Jim Dwight]

Congratulations! I recently purchased a 700 and I like it a lot. Easiest way to make mortises. Doesn't take up much space in the shop. And very portable.

[Günter VögelBerg]

I resisted for a long time but recently bought both dominoes. Lovely machines. A joy to use.

[John Goodin]

Congrats David. Big tool purchases are always a bit nerve wracking but it sounds like you made the right choice. From my perspective the Domino is a game changer in power tools and I will probably follow your lead. Hopefully I can resist the lure of making all my tools a matching green.

[Jay Rasmussen]

Enjoy your new tool David!

I fell for a Rotex 90 a couple years ago, a few months later had the 150. As the old saying goes "only regret is not doing it sooner"

[Jim Becker]

Domino (both versions) are really great tools, IMHO. I was very sad that I waited as long as I did to acquire my 700 after using it the very first time. It does what I ask it to do efficiently and accurately...every time. I think it's probably that "one Festool" worth owning, regardless of brand loyalties for so many other things. Of course, I have a lot of Festool tools just because I really like them and the system and over time they've been no more expensive or maybe less expensive than other choices because they last and last and last. Most of mine were acquired in the mid-2000s.

The most important thing to remember with Domino (and any alternative type tool such as a biscuit joiner or doweling cutter) is to always index off the same surface on adjacent components.

[David Sloan]

Thanks guys. I’ve made a lot of mortise and tenon joints using power and hand tools which I think makes you really appreciate the Domino. I can easily see how one could buy both the 500 and the XL. I glued up several thick long panels and I was astounded how much easier the alignment was with the Domino compared to the biscuit joiner. The project that pushed me to make the purchase is a table for my daughter. Basically 4 slabs 15” wide 2 1/4” thick and 60” long for top and bottom and 30” long for the sides. The 4 panels will be put together as oversized Carcase miters and I will use2 rows of 10mm x50mm tenons to support the long miters. Always nice to have an excuse for a new tool! And it was nice to get the three extra cutters with the Emerald 20th anniversary edition.

[ChrisA Edwards]

Love mine, had it for 6+ years. Finished a project for the wife last week, a rotating top Blocking Table for her knitting projects, using the DF500. The cubby's are sized to use Ikea Storage bins, which she is currently sorting and filling in the next room.

https://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i452/cedwards874/Woodworking/BlockingTable2_zpspnecq0vf.jpg


Tomorrow, I start a set of rolling drawers that will also act as a mobile base for my new lathe. The DF500 will get a good workout.

[Andrew Hughes]

I also am a big fan of the Festool Domino. I’ve had mine long enough to use it on advanced woodworking projects.
These compound miters are held tightly with the domino.

[Clark Hussey]

I recently bought the 500. Haven’t done any projects with it yet. Have only played around with it. Also have the rotes 125, love it.

[Jacob Mac]

I bought mine used from a fellow creeker and I use it on most every project. I still use traditional M&T, but the domino is great for a lot of situations.

The XL looks really great. If I ever have occasion to make doors I will most likely get one. But for me, the 500 is sufficient for my needs

[Tim M Tuttle]

I bought a Domino 500 last year. Found a good deal on a slightly use done. $850 for the set plus a systainer full of dominos. Told myself that's the only Festool product I'd buy just because of the uniqueness. Well....

425199

[ChrisA Edwards]

I needed to make four 4" square cabinet legs for my outfeed table out of 3/4" plywood. I chamfered each edge 45 degrees. To help hold and align these, while I glue'd up, I used Dominos.

I bought this jig with clamp and the plans for the wooden jig and built the jig out of scrap off cuts. This made it so easy to do the edges of the legs and the face frames of the cabinet.

Warning, they have lots of neat accessories for the Festool products.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj7YBg34evQ

[Mark Hockenberg]

David - Congrats on your purchase. You discovered that there is real value in what you pay for Festool. While pricey for sure, I firmly believe you get what you pay for. I'd love to have a DF 500. I have the 700 and love it but it's a lot to handle. I think the 500 would be great in most applications.

In addition to Jim's advise above (yes I've made that mistake a time or two), when you join two pieces at 90 degrees, think about the depth of cut in advance.

I often use a 40 mm domino to join two 19 mm (3/4") pieces. I set the depth to 15 mm for one piece and 25 mm in the other.

The first time I did this, I split the 40mm into 20mm and plunged away. Obviously I blew through the side of one piece.

OR...make sure you use the right length domino for your application...


As you use your DF 500 more, you'll see some great third party accessories from TSO Products, Seneca, etc. I'm a big fan of the TSO Bigfoot. https://tsoproducts.com/accessories/dbf-45-bigfoot-base-support-bracket-for-festool-domino/. This is a really nice addition to the Domino.

Cheers,
Mark

[Jim Dwight]

I used my 700 with the 5mm and 6mm cutters of the 500 using the Seneca adapter. But I usually do not use the pre-made tenons. I bought mine used and the seller included some 12mm tenons and I have used a few. But normally I just cut a bit of scrap and make the tenon I need. Even with rounding over the ends on the router table it doesn't take much time - especially compared to traditional mortise and tenon joints. This also allows me to make much wider tenons. I plunge on about 1/2 inch intervals to make the long mortises. I've built a crib and bed with it so far plus a few other things. I am still learning to use it but I have not found it difficult. The mm thing is an unnecessary hassle but I knew that when I bought it. I also have some pre-made up tenon stock that I cut to length as I use it. It is especially time efficient to cut several pieces of scrap up when you have the setup on the saw and router table.

[David Sloan]

I used my 700 with the 5mm and 6mm cutters of the 500 using the Seneca adapter. But I usually do not use the pre-made tenons. I bought mine used and the seller included some 12mm tenons and I have used a few. But normally I just cut a bit of scrap and make the tenon I need. Even with rounding over the ends on the router table it doesn't take much time - especially compared to traditional mortise and tenon joints. This also allows me to make much wider tenons. I plunge on about 1/2 inch intervals to make the long mortises. I've built a crib and bed with it so far plus a few other things. I am still learning to use it but I have not found it difficult. The mm thing is an unnecessary hassle but I knew that when I bought it. I also have some pre-made up tenon stock that I cut to length as I use it. It is especially time efficient to cut several pieces of scrap up when you have the setup on the saw and router table.

Jim, I also plan to make my own tenons. It’s a great way to make use of scrap. Your point about being able to make wider tenons is a good one. I have ordered the imperial thickness gauge from Seneca. I know it’s pricey but I find it hard to think metric for woodworking.

[Jim Becker]

Jim, I also plan to make my own tenons. It’s a great way to make use of scrap. Your point about being able to make wider tenons is a good one. I have ordered the imperial thickness gauge from Seneca. I know it’s pricey but I find it hard to think metric for woodworking.
Hint...you don't need to work in metric to use the Domino, although the actual tenons and cutters are in metric. If you index from one side of the material always...which is a best practice...there's no real measurement involved. You do not need to have anything "exactly centered" if you follow that indexing rule religiously. Pick a Domino tenon size appropriate for the material you are using and have at it.

[michael dilday]

I just bought the 500 Q set a couple of days ago along with the tenon assortment and bits. Haven't used it yet just read the instructions and made one mortise. Looks like it is going to be very useful.

[John Makar]

I have a well used 500. I find it an interesting sociological item. At a time when the Chis Schwarz's of the world are going back to handtool only, technology is blowing out tradition in a way that is impossible to ignore or equal in ease and quality. The other thing I see is the price inflation. Dayammm, I groaned when I bought mine back in 2008, now the price increase covers what what I paid for the extra dominos' and bits' systainer, plus a fair amount of change.

Mine gets used most for sliding jigs. When I want to screw something to something I don't worry about precision, I just line up the marks close enough, and then cut a thru-motise on the removable piece. That led to competence in threaded-inserts, so now thing like my benchhook gets transmogified constantly. That also led to nylon 1/4-20 screws, that Amazon sells me by the 100s when I can't get any locally. When something like a saw or chisel blade hits a nylon screw, you just toasted 10 cents worth of nylon.

I have a small garage shop, don't have room for exotic jigs, but if you build a modular base, screw on adaptors add a lot and sit on a single 10" peg hook. That can end up being a nuisance. I added 1/4-20 and 3/8-16 inserts to my Moxon, and now struggle between building boxes which I have said is my role in life, and coming up with fun Moxon add-ons. I didn't need more diversions.

If you give a mouse a power tool...

[David Sloan]

425616Just very impressed with the Domino. There are always multiple joinery options in woodworking I know but these carcase miters are going to be solid. This project for my daughter provided the excuse to buy a tool I have long admired.

[Prashun Patel]

What non-Domino users don't realize is that the genius of the Domino is not its ability to drill floating tenon mortises; it's the flip switch that allows you to widen the holes in increments. This means you don't have to mark ultra precisely. It's really hard to put into words how versatile and flexible this makes things. Domino is to tools as Rush is to music. You either get it and get it HARD, or it just seems like a lot of noise.

[Edwin Santos]

What non-Domino users don't realize is that the genius of the Domino is not its ability to drill floating tenon mortises; it's the flip switch that allows you to widen the holes in increments. This means you don't have to mark ultra precisely. It's really hard to put into words how versatile and flexible this makes things. Domino is to tools as Rush is to music. You either get it and get it HARD, or it just seems like a lot of noise.

Sigh. Why does woodworking (and so many other things in life) have to be so tribal?

In my case, I don't own a Festool Domino. But I have used one one two occasions now. I agree with you that the tool is very nice, and the adjust-ability error margin that you can dial in can be quite useful, especially in a complex assembly. But you know what? In the balancing act of budget constraints and a never ending tool wish list, the Domino just hasn't made the buy button yet. This is mainly because it does things that I can already mostly do, albeit it does do them faster and more conveniently. Plus maybe my priority as a woodworker at the moment is skills acquisition and design.

I think I may very well buy a Domino someday, but I object to the idea that since I'm a non-user, non-owner, I'm not a member of the tribe so therefore I just don't get it.
Disclaimer: I admit I'm sensitive to this thinking because these days it permeates our society and perhaps not (IMO) to anyone's benefit.
Edwin

BTW, congrats to the OP on the new tool and looks like you're off to a good start with it.

[Larry Edgerton]

Sigh. Why does woodworking (and so many other things in life) have to be so tribal?

In my case, I don't own a Festool Domino. But I have used one one two occasions now. I agree with you that the tool is very nice, and the adjust-ability error margin that you can dial in can be quite useful, especially in a complex assembly. But you know what? In the balancing act of budget constraints and a never ending tool wish list, the Domino just hasn't made the buy button yet. This is mainly because it does things that I can already mostly do, albeit it does do them faster and more conveniently. Plus maybe my priority as a woodworker at the moment is skills acquisition and design.

I think I may very well buy a Domino someday, but I object to the idea that since I'm a non-user, non-owner, I'm not a member of the tribe so therefore I just don't get it.
Disclaimer: I admit I'm sensitive to this thinking because these days it permeates our society and perhaps not (IMO) to anyone's benefit.
Edwin

BTW, congrats to the OP on the new tool and looks like you're off to a good start with it.

Excellent post Ed, and I own a domino. I can just do most of what it does better with other tools. I thought I would use it for face frames as I do them with traditional M&T but they were just not right for reasons I will not discuss here. Mine sits in its storage spot most of the time, and being who I am when I bought it I bought every accessory and a lifetime supply of Dominos. It has not paid for itself.

One of the things I bought it for was precision offsets and I find the fence to be too hard to be consistent with. The steps are a pain in the butt, never exactly what I want. They should have copied Dewalt fence on their biscuit joiner with its rack and pinion to allow the user to locate the domino exactly where they want it. I don't use material in just the dimensions that the steps allow and adjusting it to dimensions that "I" want is just too slow and easily inconsistent.

I have to admit I was swept up in the glowing reviews, and have since learned to for the most part keep my dissenting opinion to myself. But for the price of a domino you can buy a nice mortising machine for example, a machine I use a lot more.

With all of this in mind I am having an argument with myself in regards to a Lamello Zeta P2 right now, an argument I will probably lose and hopefully it is just not another pretty box on the shelf. I have drunk the Green Koolaid and find that I only like about half of the flavors I have tried so far.

[Prashun Patel]

Edwin,
I did not mean to be tribal. Sorry about that. I genuinely meant that the best thing about Domino is not it's ability to make mortises, but its ability to make them preferentially sloppy. It just really shines where one needs to be fast. It saves a lot of marking time - not just drilling. It was not intuitive to me and I only came to appreciate it after using it a while.

Sorry again! No harm no foul?

[Jim Becker]

Mine sits in its storage spot most of the time, and being who I am when I bought it I bought every accessory and a lifetime supply of Dominos. It has not paid for itself.

There can be no return on your investment if you either choose not to use the tool or just don't like it for whatever personal reasons you may have. Domino is one of those things one needs to use to either appreciate it or determine it's best to sell it off. If it "wasn't right for you", that's ok. Maybe someone else will be willing to take it off your shelf and be happy with it. That could fund the Lamello.... ;) For me, even though I don't use mine a lot simply because of the varied requirements of the work I produce, it was one of the better tool investments I've made. I'm actually sorry I didn't buy it sooner. But that's me. We're all different. Which is kinda nice when you think about it!

[Edwin Santos]

Edwin,
I did not mean to be tribal. Sorry about that. I genuinely meant that the best thing about Domino is not it's ability to make mortises, but its ability to make them preferentially sloppy. It just really shines where one needs to be fast. It saves a lot of marking time - not just drilling. It was not intuitive to me and I only came to appreciate it after using it a while.

Sorry again! No harm no foul?

No worries Prashun, didn't mean to be overly sensitive about it. Your post just happened to come up right on the heels of finding myself at the wrong end of tribal spears in a few other instances.

Once the patents run out, it will be interesting to see how the rest of the market copies or re-imagines the concept of a hand held mortising machine like the Domino, without a doubt a clever tool. Keep on keepin' on!
Ed

[Edwin Santos]

That led to competence in threaded-inserts, so now thing like my benchhook gets transmogified constantly. That also led to nylon 1/4-20 screws, that Amazon sells me by the 100s when I can't get any locally. When something like a saw or chisel blade hits a nylon screw, you just toasted 10 cents worth of nylon.


I had not heard that idea before. Nice.

If you were inclined to tap the hole in the mating piece, I wonder if you could dispense with the threaded insert entirely.

[Ron Selzer]

sigh. Why does woodworking (and so many other things in life) have to be so tribal?

In my case, i don't own a festool domino. But i have used one one two occasions now. I agree with you that the tool is very nice, and the adjust-ability error margin that you can dial in can be quite useful, especially in a complex assembly. But you know what? In the balancing act of budget constraints and a never ending tool wish list, the domino just hasn't made the buy button yet. This is mainly because it does things that i can already mostly do, albeit it does do them faster and more conveniently. Plus maybe my priority as a woodworker at the moment is skills acquisition and design.

I think i may very well buy a domino someday, but i object to the idea that since i'm a non-user, non-owner, i'm not a member of the tribe so therefore i just don't get it.
Disclaimer: I admit i'm sensitive to this thinking because these days it permeates our society and perhaps not (imo) to anyone's benefit.
Edwin

btw, congrats to the op on the new tool and looks like you're off to a good start with it.

very well said

[Rick Herrick]

I noticed you bought the Emerald edition, which looks to have a few more goodies with it. From what I could see, its sold out in most places. Did you buy it a while back or did you find a hidden source :) ?

[Mike Goetzke]

Congrats to OP on great purchase.

For some reason I purchased a 500 many years ago when the BING discount was given on ebay. Anyway, I didn't like it or use it much for some reason so I sold it. Four years ago I was tasked to make a crib for our granddaughter and thought a Domino would be perfect. I found a slightly used 700XL and now love the Domino. For me the XL has a better way to hold it and I find I use it on almost every project - although the 500 is more right sized for 3/4" work.

As far as tenons - I have made my own but you do need a planer due to the precise sizing of the mortises. Guess with trial/error you may be able to use the TS as sawn. The idea behind the system is to have a tight fitting tenon. Tenon price can add up. Last spring I made a couple outside plant stands from rough sawn fence board and there was more $ in tenons then wood (but, I punched these out in very little time)!

Mike

[Jim Becker]

I'm buying the 750mm long Domino tenon stock now rather than the Dominos at pre-cut lengths. It's a bit less expensive that way. But making them from scrap is certainly a good way to both use up scrap and save some money when one has the time to do it.

[David Sloan]

I noticed you bought the Emerald edition, which looks to have a few more goodies with it. From what I could see, its sold out in most places. Did you buy it a while back or did you find a hidden source :) ?
Everywhere I looked online was sold out. I called my local Woodcraft to make sure they had a regular 500 in stock and they said we have them in stock including one of the Emerald edition in the storeroom!

[Rick Herrick]

Everywhere I looked online was sold out. I called my local Woodcraft to make sure they had a regular 500 in stock and they said we have them in stock including one of the Emerald edition in the storeroom!

Your a lucky dawg...

[Peter Mich]

Lots of valuable insights in all of your comments about the Domino. Thanks, it’s on my wish list. One of my New Year’s resolutions was to purchase tools when a project actually required the tool and to avoid acquiring tools simply for the joy of ownership. Encouraging forum posts such as this one make it very hard to stick to my resolution. Maybe I should have resolved to read fewer enticing posts. Nope, I’ll keep reading and dreaming.

[David Sloan]

Hint...you don't need to work in metric to use the Domino, although the actual tenons and cutters are in metric. If you index from one side of the material always...which is a best practice...there's no real measurement involved. You do not need to have anything "exactly centered" if you follow that indexing rule religiously. Pick a Domino tenon size appropriate for the material you are using and have at it.

Jim, I did order the Seneca imperial scale (before your post) and installed it. It really is overpriced. I understand your points and certainly agree but on the other hand working often with solid wood of different thicknesses I think I am going to find it very helpful. For example if I am making joints using 7/8" thick wood I can quickly set the gauge to 7/8" and know that I am good. No eyeballing, no test cuts. I know I am going to be fairly close to center (even though as you point out that is not critical). And if I then go to 1/2" thick wood, I adjust the scale accordingly. I assume if they are making money selling the aftermarket imperial scale, other folks must find the imperial scale of value. As an aside, I use metric measurements in my daily work but somehow I can't think metric when woodworking. I have enjoyed all the comments in response to my post so thanks to all of you.I'll also add that when I glued up the large carcase miter, I was glad I had made the domino slots using the middle setting or I would never and I mean never have gotten the thing glued up and clamped!

[Jim Becker]

No question that the Imperial scale can be very useful and it's nice that it's available. For me, I switched to metric for all of my woodworking except for certain client projects that require Imperial. (that's mostly sub-contract work so I have to work in the measuring system that the client is using for the rest of the project) But for my Domino XL, I tend to "eyeball" things and use the scale merely for convenience in locking in a particular setting.

[Jack Frederick]

I have been planning on buying a 500 and saving for it. A friend convinced me to begin skiing again after a five decades off and it has been wonderful. The President's Day 30% sale hits at the ski shop and I folded. New Volkl Mantra M5's to pick up tomorrow and the 500 is an again delayed purchase. I am kicking myself but can't wait to get out on the new boards. I think Tues, but we need snow.

[Michael Drew]

I've had the 500 in my Amazon wish list for a year now. Just can't stomach the costs, but I often find myself wishing I had it to use.

[Jim Becker]

I've had the 500 in my Amazon wish list for a year now. Just can't stomach the costs, but I often find myself wishing I had it to use.
That's the thing...while Domino is one of those tools that folks clearly either dislike or love...in the case of the latter, we all wish we would have bought it sooner!

[Dave Sabo]

Mantras are a bit too stiff and heavy for me to have much fun on for an everyday ski. I did like them in the crud though.

You really need to get out a use them. A lot. Or like a lot of domino owners, they will just be part of a collection.

[Jim Dwight]

I've made many more mortise and tenon joints with a router and then with my hollow chisel mortiser than I have with my domino. A Domino is totally not necessary. I think my router mortises looked the best. But I've seen tests that indicated tight smooth sided mortises are not necessarily the strongest. The hollow chisel mortiser makes the roughest mortises and would be a bear to use on the end of a long board (like you can do easily with a Domino). But you can just put an integral tenon on long pieces (I usually use a radial arm saw plus a shoulder plane for final fitting).

I like my Domino because it is fast and it doesn't take up much space. I had the money so I bought it. No way would I argue I had to have it or couldn't make everything I want to make without it. Nor would I argue that somebody who makes mortises differently does worse work or anything like that. It is a convenience thing, not a "better" or "must have" thing. I didn't think I had the money until recently and got by for several decades of woodworking without it.

I have quite a few Ryobi tools that I like just fine and only one Festool power tool. I am far from a tool snob. But I like my Domino and SawStop and may soon buy a "nice" bandsaw. Nicer tools are in my experience more fun to work with but we all have to live with budget constraints and that does not mean we can't do every bit as good work.

[Michael Drew]

That's the thing...while Domino is one of those tools that folks clearly either dislike or love...in the case of the latter, we all wish we would have bought it sooner!

So I went to my favorite hardware / hardwood store yesterday to pick up some cherry boards..... Left with some wood, a Domino 500 kit, and the $300 set of Dominos..... Kinda like going to Costco for TP, and leaving with a truck full of stuff I had no intention of getting. I almost bought the damn vacuum too, but figured one of three Rigid shop vacs should work well enough.

[Robyn Horton]

You"ll be Sorry that you didn't get the vac. The Auto on off on the Vac is Great with the Domino and the Track Saw and the Sanders :) Just Sayin

[Jim Becker]

So I went to my favorite hardware / hardwood store yesterday to pick up some cherry boards..... Left with some wood, a Domino 500 kit, and the $300 set of Dominos..... Kinda like going to Costco for TP, and leaving with a truck full of stuff I had no intention of getting. I almost bought the damn vacuum too, but figured one of three Rigid shop vacs should work well enough.


ROFLOL!!! "You have been assimilated"... :)

You may want to get the Festool hose to use with your existing vac so that you have the proper connection setup for the tool(s). Running a Domino without extraction is really messy! I do not recall if they make an adapter or not.

[Derek Cohen]

https://www.woodtalkonline.com/uploads/monthly_2020_02/constFeatures01_pinnedmortise.jpg.35301a35fdf11357 703f2aef888559a1.jpg
I have both a Domino DF500 and a DW biscuit joiner. Both have their uses, for example, dominos made decent joins for frames (for frame-and-panel doors) when building my kitchen.. This saved a lot of time and effort when there were around 25 frames to build. Biscuits are preferred to dominos for aligning thicknessed boards in a glue up.

I see many rushing off to purchase a Domino tool and selling off their biscuit joiners. One does not replace the other. They are similar machines and overlap in their tasks, but they also differ in their strengths and weaknesses. For example, the shallow and long mortice of a biscuit is preferred for strengthening a mitred edge than the deep and narrow mortice of a domino.

I hesitate to refer to the Domino as “mortice-and-tenon”. The joint it makes is a loose tenon. This is a production joint. It lacks the design and application range of a true tenon, which can vary in size and type for different applications. In the furniture I build, I almost only use true mortice-and-tenon joinery. I understand (and accept) that many want to use dominos and biscuits to replace this, but it is not the same and will have a short life span. For example, repair is difficult on these joints. I build furniture with traditional joinery as longevity is important. I assume that someone at some time in the future may wish to make a repair.

None of this is intended to disparage dominos or biscuits, but just to create a perspective. I am very impressed with the DF500, and it has many uses, as Prashun mentioned. I find it useful for creating mortices to attach table tops. I considered the larger 700 when purchasing a Domino, and am happy I went with the smaller machine as it fits better with the size of furniture I build. I cannot imagine needing larger than 10mm dominos.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Doug Dawson]

None of this is intended to disparage dominos or biscuits, but just to create a perspective. I am very impressed with the DF500, and it has many uses, as Prashun mentioned. I find it useful for creating mortices to attach table tops. I considered the larger 700 when purchasing a Domino, and am happy I went with the smaller machine as it fits better with the size of furniture I build. I cannot imagine needing larger than 10mm dominos.


The 700 is invaluable for creating larger (usually in my case) outdoor structures, or more recently doors, I marvel at the tenacity of people using it for such things as chairs, for which the 500 is a better bet.

[Mark e Kessler]

My thoughts on the domino are pretty much spot on with Derek although I did sell my beloved lamello top 10. I have never used my domino for “mortice and tenon” as I will only use a traditional m&t in my furniture. The domino is awesome for locating, I recently used it to locate slats in a king size bed.

427014427015



I have both a Domino DF500 and a DW biscuit joiner. Both have their uses, for example, dominos made decent joins for frames (for frame-and-panel doors) when building my kitchen.. This saved a lot of time and effort when there were around 25 frames to build. Biscuits are preferred to dominos for aligning thicknessed boards in a glue up.

I see many rushing off to purchase a Domino tool and selling off their biscuit joiners. One does not replace the other. They are similar machines and overlap in their tasks, but they also differ in their strengths and weaknesses. For example, the shallow and long mortice of a biscuit is preferred for strengthening a mitred edge than the deep and narrow mortice of a domino.

I hesitate to refer to the Domino as “mortice-and-tenon”. The joint it makes is a loose tenon. This is a production joint. It lacks the design and application range of a true tenon, which can vary in size and type for different applications. In the furniture I build, I almost only use true mortice-and-tenon joinery. I understand (and accept) that many want to use dominos and biscuits to replace this, but it is not the same and will have a short life span. For example, repair is difficult on these joints. I build furniture with traditional joinery as longevity is important. I assume that someone at some time in the future may wish to make a repair.

None of this is intended to disparage dominos or biscuits, but just to create a perspective. I am very impressed with the DF500, and it has many uses, as Prashun mentioned. I find it useful for creating mortices to attach table tops. I considered the larger 700 when purchasing a Domino, and am happy I went with the smaller machine as it fits better with the size of furniture I build. I cannot imagine needing larger than 10mm dominos.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Michael Drew]

ROFLOL!!! "You have been assimilated"... :)

You may want to get the Festool hose to use with your existing vac so that you have the proper connection setup for the tool(s). Running a Domino without extraction is really messy! I do not recall if they make an adapter or not.

LOL... At least I don't feel violated, just a little broke. The lady who owns the store, (and person who convinced me that I simply should not go through life any longer without the tool), told me dust extraction is critical and to not get mad at her if I break a bit using my shop vac. She sells both Fein and Festool and I'll need to decide which to buy in the near future. I'll probably just get one of the Festool vacs. In the meantime, I ordered the Bosch VAC005 hose from amazon that I believe is the correct size for use with the Domino. I was also fondling the Festool sanders and track saws.

[ChrisA Edwards]

I just finished a cabinet, today, to go under my SuperMax Drum Sander, I'm replacing the metal stand to give me something with better storage.

Did about 30 Dominos to attach the sides, top, bottom and back. Used the CT26 vacuum, not a scrap of sawdust or chips visible.

Love this setup.

[brian cammarata]

I caved yesterday and took a sip of the green kool-aid as well. I bought off craigslist a practically brand new domino 500, with Seneca plate as well as systainer of other the other 4 bit sizes and dominoes. Cant wait to put to use

[John Sincerbeaux]

“I hesitate to refer to the Domino as “mortice-and-tenon”. The joint it makes is a loose tenon. This is a production joint. It lacks the design and application range of a true tenon, which can vary in size and type for different applications. In the furniture I build, I almost only use true mortice-and-tenon joinery. I understand (and accept) that many want to use dominos and biscuits to replace this, but it is not the same and will have a short life span. For example, repair is difficult on these joints. I build furniture with traditional joinery as longevity is important. I assume that someone at some time in the future may wish to make a repair.”

Derek,
I think a few of your statements are flawed?
Do you have any data that would support your belief that a floating “tenon” would be less strong and would have a “short life span”? How long have Domino joints been used? Are they failing in that time? I don’t think so.

We have all seen furniture (old & new) that have had traditional joints fail.

No one knows how a Domino joint will hold up to 100 years of use and humidity, but my bet is it will perform just as well if not better than a traditional joint?

And not sure I get the “easier to repair” claim?

Regards from Texas

[Derek Cohen]

“I hesitate to refer to the Domino as “mortice-and-tenon”. The joint it makes is a loose tenon. This is a production joint. It lacks the design and application range of a true tenon, which can vary in size and type for different applications. In the furniture I build, I almost only use true mortice-and-tenon joinery. I understand (and accept) that many want to use dominos and biscuits to replace this, but it is not the same and will have a short life span. For example, repair is difficult on these joints. I build furniture with traditional joinery as longevity is important. I assume that someone at some time in the future may wish to make a repair.”

Derek,
I think a few of your statements are flawed?
Do you have any data that would support your belief that a floating “tenon” would be less strong and would have a “short life span”? How long have Domino joints been used? Are they failing in that time? I don’t think so.

We have all seen furniture (old & new) that have had traditional joints fail.

No one knows how a Domino joint will hold up to 100 years of use and humidity, but my bet is it will perform just as well if not better than a traditional joint?

And not sure I get the “easier to repair” claim?

Regards from Texas

The Domino is a mortice-making tool and the mortice created is quite a simple affair. I plan to explore using the Domino to develop the concept further, which may need to be done with hand tools. I'll provide examples in a short while. John, I did not state that a loose tenon joint was not strong, or that it would not last. I implied that it is a simple production joint designed for speed, and may not be used appropriately in situations where a different joint design is better utilised.

As it stands, the Domino only creates the basis for a loose tenon joint, typically making blind mortice-and-tenon joints. And unless one has the knowledge of joinery, this is what it will remain. Because of its simplicity, I would argue that most users do not know about the range of mortice-and-tenon joinery that can be used for different situations. In their hands it just becomes another biscuit jointer.

How many of these mortice-and-tenon joints have you used? Link: https://www.craftsmanspace.com/knowledge/mortise-and-tenon-woodworking-joints.html


A few mortise and tenon woodworking joints ....






Through mortise and tenon joint
https://www.craftsmanspace.com/sites/default/files/styles/knowledge_380/public/free-knowledge-articles/through_mortise_and_tenon_joint.gif (https://www.craftsmanspace.com/sites/default/files/free-knowledge-articles/through_mortise_and_tenon_joint.gif)


Blind mortise and tenon joint
https://www.craftsmanspace.com/sites/default/files/styles/knowledge_380/public/free-knowledge-articles/blind_mortise_and_tenon_joint.gif (https://www.craftsmanspace.com/sites/default/files/free-knowledge-articles/blind_mortise_and_tenon_joint.gif)


Angled haunched mortise and tenon joint
https://www.craftsmanspace.com/sites/default/files/styles/knowledge_380/public/free-knowledge-articles/angled_haunched_tenon_and_mortise_joint.gif (https://www.craftsmanspace.com/sites/default/files/free-knowledge-articles/angled_haunched_tenon_and_mortise_joint.gif)


Application of haunched tenon joint to door frame
https://www.craftsmanspace.com/sites/default/files/styles/knowledge_380/public/free-knowledge-articles/application_of_haunched_tenon_joint_to_door_frame_ 1.gif (https://www.craftsmanspace.com/sites/default/files/free-knowledge-articles/application_of_haunched_tenon_joint_to_door_frame_ 1.gif)




Wedged through tenon and mortise joint
https://www.craftsmanspace.com/sites/default/files/styles/knowledge_380/public/free-knowledge-articles/wedged_through_tenon_and_mortise_joint_1.gif (https://www.craftsmanspace.com/sites/default/files/free-knowledge-articles/wedged_through_tenon_and_mortise_joint_1.gif)


Haunched tenon and mortise joint
https://www.craftsmanspace.com/sites/default/files/styles/knowledge_380/public/free-knowledge-articles/haunched_tenon_and_mortise_joint.gif (https://www.craftsmanspace.com/sites/default/files/free-knowledge-articles/haunched_tenon_and_mortise_joint.gif)

Interlocking tenon and mortise joint for seat rails of chair to leg
https://www.craftsmanspace.com/sites/default/files/styles/knowledge_380/public/free-knowledge-articles/interlocking_tenon_and_mortise_joint_for_seat_rail s_of_chair_to_leg.gif (https://www.craftsmanspace.com/sites/default/files/free-knowledge-articles/interlocking_tenon_and_mortise_joint_for_seat_rail s_of_chair_to_leg.gif)

Long and short shouldered tenon and mortise joint
https://www.craftsmanspace.com/sites/default/files/styles/knowledge_380/public/free-knowledge-articles/long_and_short_shouldered_tenon_and_mortise_joint. gif (https://www.craftsmanspace.com/sites/default/files/free-knowledge-articles/long_and_short_shouldered_tenon_and_mortise_joint. gif)




Tenon and mortise joint with mitered face
https://www.craftsmanspace.com/sites/default/files/styles/knowledge_380/public/free-knowledge-articles/tenon_joint_with_mitred_face.gif (https://www.craftsmanspace.com/sites/default/files/free-knowledge-articles/tenon_joint_with_mitred_face.gif)

Tusk tenon and mortise joint
https://www.craftsmanspace.com/sites/default/files/styles/knowledge_380/public/free-knowledge-articles/tusk_tenon_joint.gif (https://www.craftsmanspace.com/sites/default/files/free-knowledge-articles/tusk_tenon_joint.gif)



Tenon and mortise joint reinforced with dowel
https://www.craftsmanspace.com/sites/default/files/styles/knowledge_380/public/free-knowledge-articles/tenon_and_mortise_joint_reinforced_with_dowel.gif (https://www.craftsmanspace.com/sites/default/files/free-knowledge-articles/tenon_and_mortise_joint_reinforced_with_dowel.gif)



Self wedging tenon and mortise joint
https://www.craftsmanspace.com/sites/default/files/styles/knowledge_380/public/free-knowledge-articles/self_wedging_tenon_and_mortise_joint.gif (https://www.craftsmanspace.com/sites/default/files/free-knowledge-articles/self_wedging_tenon_and_mortise_joint.gif)




One of the most used mortice-and-tenon joints I use is the drawbored joint. This pulls the joint together mechanically. Dominos rely on glue. The two joints are different, not just in versatility, but also in reversibility.

The table legs below utilise large mortice-and-tenons ...


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/SofaTable-Legs_html_9055f32.jpg (http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/SofaTable-Legs_html_9055f32.jpg)


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/SofaTable-Legs_html_5daaf5c.jpg (http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/SofaTable-Legs_html_5daaf5c.jpg)


These ones appear that they could have been done with a Domino, however they were drawbored from the inside.


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/SofaTableAllTheWayToCompletion_html_5056b9fa.jpg (http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/SofaTableAllTheWayToCompletion_html_5056b9fa.jpg)


There is also an issue of repairability. This is integral to good design and construction. You might wish that your joint will last 100 years, but a considerate builder works with the understanding that nature, in the form of expansion and contraction due to moisture, plays a larger role than we would desire. Humans also play a part, especially with chairs.

Repairability in part it comes down to the glue one uses. It is less likely that one who works with dominos or biscuits will use hide glue, which is both reversible (with moist heat) and also one can re-glue it (it is okay to add hide glue on top of hide glue, which one cannot do with a white or yellow glue). This is partly a mindset thing.


The second factor is that one is attempting to undo a joint which has glue on both ends, and not just on one end (so there is greater strength in this situation).


Thirdly, there are a vast range of mortice-and-tenon joints to choose from, as I posted a link to above, and some are designed to be pulled apart with little damage.


Regards from Perth


Derek

[John Sincerbeaux]

Derek
Thanks for the very informative reply.
There are certainly a huge variety of mortise and tenon joints available to a woodworker. Most of those illustrations are far too overly complicated and or time consuming for about 90% of woodworkers around the world.
I own a Multi Router, Dewalt biscuit joiner, a Domino DF 500, and several Lie Nielsen hand tools. Like you said, each does things differently.
Personally, if I am going for the ultimate in strength, and longevity in joinery, my choice is “dovetail”.
My argument is this... a standard M&T (non-reinforced) joint cut with a Domino (non slop mode) vs. hand cut using the SAME glue and living in the SAME environment will last at least as long as the hand cut.
As far as hide glue for ease of repair? WouldnÂ’t the same concept be true for domino joinery?

Cheers

[Mark e Kessler]

"far too overly complicated and or time consuming for about 90% of woodworkers around the world"

You mean hobbyist don't you? Actually now that I think about it I believe a lot of hobbyist folks can do these joints, they are pretty straight forward classic joints. Certainly takes skill to execute some of them well... - 90% seems awful high...



Derek
Thanks for the very informative reply.
There are certainly a huge variety of mortise and tenon joints available to a woodworker. Most of those illustrations are far too overly complicated and or time consuming for about 90% of woodworkers around the world.
I own a Multi Router, Dewalt biscuit joiner, a Domino DF 500, and several Lie Nielsen hand tools. Like you said, each does things differently.
Personally, if I am going for the ultimate in strength, and longevity in joinery, my choice is “dovetail”.
My argument is this... a standard M&T (non-reinforced) joint cut with a Domino (non slop mode) vs. hand cut using the SAME glue and living in the SAME environment will last at least as long as the hand cut.
As far as hide glue for ease of repair? WouldnÂ’t the same concept be true for domino joinery?

Cheers

[John Sincerbeaux]

Actually 90% might be low?
I have been involved with competitive and professional woodworking for over 20 years. Have several professional WW friends with mad skills. But almost all use machinery for their joinery. I know Frank Strazza is a hand joinery guy. David Marks uses a Multi Router and uses floating tenon joinery. Paul Schurch uses a combo of both.
But my point I raised was... I believe a Domino joint is as effective, strong, and lasting as any hand cut M&T joint. And further, I don’t know of a single professional artist/craftsman that feels a machined joint somehow cheats his or her client.

[Mark e Kessler]

I missed the "Handcut" part, hard for me to relate, I went to a furniture design/build school where for the first year we were taught how to use maintain our hand tools and were not allowed to use any machinery for our designs in the first 6 months and limited after that until 1 year, I have been building for over 30 years and only use machines for m+t however I would never use a domino/floating where I can use a traditional m+t that's just my flow and feel its superior regardless of data. I had a Multi router when I had my business and liked it a lot.



Actually 90% might be low?
I have been involved with competitive and professional woodworking for over 20 years. Have several professional WW friends with mad skills. But almost all use machinery for their joinery. I know Frank Strazza is a hand joinery guy. David Marks uses a Multi Router and uses floating tenon joinery. Paul Schurch uses a combo of both.
But my point I raised was... I believe a Domino joint is as effective, strong, and lasting as any hand cut M&T joint. And further, I don’t know of a single professional artist/craftsman that feels a machined joint somehow cheats his or her client.

[Larry Edgerton]

On a small rail such as in a cabinet face, the domino is nowhere as strong as a traditional. Don't care what anyone read, I have tried and compared and it is just no where near as strong. It is my opinion, not strong enough. I will not stake my reputation on them.

Also, properly cut traditionals hold things in square as it is assembled, Dominoes do not even on the no play setting, because there is actually play in that no play setting. Precisely locating parts is not possible with the domino, but with a well executed traditional spacing between components does not even have to be checked at glue up.

Every tool has its purpose, just don't find the domino to be all that useful.