Do we ever say no?

[kent wardecke]

How often does a member say "should I buy this saw or the bigger saw?" or maybe they ask if a new tool will be a good addition to their collection, a new garage door? Should I run 220v to my garage?
it's inevitable we say yes. Granted it's our collective experience that buying contractor saw is better than a portable saw and a cabinet saw is better than a contractors saw. I'm sure in some instances we advise smaller or cheaper but how often is that?

[Paul F Franklin]

If we say no to those type of questions, then no might be the answer next time *we* ask, and we wouldn't want that, would we? :D

[Doug Dawson]

How often does a member say "should I buy this saw or the bigger saw?" or maybe they ask if a new tool will be a good addition to their collection, a new garage door? Should I run 220v to my garage?
it's inevitable we say yes. Granted it's our collective experience that buying contractor saw is better than a portable saw and a cabinet saw is better than a contractors saw. I'm sure in some instances we advise smaller or cheaper but how often is that?

Saying no is detrimental to our hopes and dreams. It is local to the Province Of Negativity. You can't get there from here.

[Frederick Skelly]

We sure dont say 'no' often. :)

But you really dont have to have the biggest, most expensive tool all the time, right? I think we can make the price of entry scare away newbies sometimes. I always enjoy hearing from the folks that are using shopsmiths and recycled hand tools to do nice work.

[Jim Koepke]

As normal humans, it is always fun to spend other people's money.

Usually my answer to such questions (mostly in the Neanderthal Haven conference) is to ask questions as to why a particular item is chosen.

Commonly it seems someone wants to purchase a new high dollar plane, saw, chisel or other item. For me, the only reason to validate the purchase is if there isn't something commonly available to satisfy the need.

There are a few tools purchased new in my shop. They were purchase either because the new one is less expensive than what has become a collector item or the difficulty of finding an old one proved to be difficult.

Why should a person purchase a new chisel when ones like this are to be found:

424958

On the back this is stamped Winsted Edge Tool Co. This is the company that made T.H. Witherby chisels. It set me back $3.24 including tax.

If you want to find something like this new, it is likely to set you back a bit more:

424961

Quite a bit more, $120 + shipping is a lot to pay for new & shiny.

jtk

[Mel Fulks]

Jim, I agree. That does not get said enough. Some fine talents here have tested vintage chisels against the pricey
PM-11 stuff and find the vintage chisels in second place. I appreciate their efforts ,but the old stuff can often be bought
at really low prices and is better than much of the new stuff.

[Doug Dawson]

As normal humans, it is always fun to spend other people's money.

Especially if it's your own money first, which is _always_ more important to you personally (we're all human,) and you're just trying to save other people from making the same mistake. Don't discount altruism.

[Doug Dawson]

Jim, I agree. That does not get said enough. Some fine talents here have tested vintage chisels against the pricey
PM-11 stuff and find the vintage chisels in second place. I appreciate their efforts ,but the old stuff can often be bought
at really low prices and is better than much of the new stuff.

I'm a big fan of vintage metal if you can find it in good condition. It doesn't have to be shiny to "new" standards, if you can _find_ it, in good condition. We haven't _all_ gone to "old tool heaven" where all the bulldogs have rubber teeth, and the cast steel flows like candy down mountain streams, etc. I've got mine (I won't say "get yours") but it does come at a price, which is not penny candy. The modern stuff that competes with it is not cheap.

[Dave Lehnert]

A number of years ago, someone up the road was selling a 16-32 drum sander for $350. I was very interested.
Pulled over and called. The older gentleman who answered said it was getting too late for me to drop in (It was around 7pm:rolleyes:) but I was welcomed to stop in next day. Sounded like was in new condition and not used much.
Anyway I posted for experienced users on Sawmill Creek and was talked out of buying it.
I have always kinda regretted not picking it up. But who knows, If purchased, may have been sorry.

But yes, We do sometimes say no.

[Bruce Wrenn]

It's always been my motto to buy the best tool you afford, that will serve your needs. Not always the most expensive. Look at the Forrest WWII. Seldom have I ever seen one in a commercial cabinet shop, but hobbiest can't live without one. Same goes for Forrest sharpening services, way over priced, but some will use no other. Not picking on Forrest alone, just as an example. Same goes for my HF multitool. Sure a Fein would be nice, but the HF does what I need. 30+ years ago, my boss told me to get a Honda generator for one of our projects in Petersburg VA. Told him, for the price of the Honda, I could buy four Coleman Powermates. I bought only one Powermate, and it's still in my shop today. Does everything the Honda would have, only louder.

[Neil Gaskin]

Moment of regret or careful contemplation?

[John Goodin]

What I notice frequently is not so much never saying “no” but advice for questions not asked. The OP asks for recs on a “new 14” band saw under 1100” and many respond with “buy Model X 18” band saw for 1600 dollars” and “buy old iron on Craigslist.” It seems many people, including me, believe what suits our individual needs will meet everyone else’s needs too. Luckily we have the same general interest (making sawdust) but different special interests, otherwise all the advice and commentary on here would be the same.

[Bill Dufour]

Our friend never says no to her son. When he asks for something crazy she just asks him. "did you bump your head?"
Bill D

[Jim Koepke]

Another one of my oft made comments to those asking about tool purchases is to consider the money versus time situation.

My beginning in woodworking had me in a situation a little stretched financially and having the spare time of any average man with 4 kids and a job.

Buying new premium tools was out of the question. Buying used or inexpensive and learning to get it in shape was the only way for me to accumulate some tools. This was almost 40 years ago. A lot of my early lumber was from recycling pallets.

Now with kids who are grown and on their own there is even more time and the finances are a bit more flexible.

Anyone considering a purchase that comes down to the decision of new vs something needing a bit of work may want to think about whether they have more time or more money.

jtk

[kent wardecke]

Moment of regret or careful contemplation?
Contemplation
The more i think about it we,as a group, are pretty good. Something never offered is "you'd be better off putting that $1100 in an IRA" But if the OP asks a Chevy or a Ford we discuss the pros and cons we have learned from our experience. Of course someone will say buy a Cadillac but rarely will someone suggest a yugo because we know that's false economy

[Jim Koepke]

if the OP asks a Chevy or a Ford we discuss the pros and cons we have learned from our experience.

The Chevy/Ford discussion often tends to have deep seated loyalties influencing many responders to such a question. At times people seem to have stronger opinions about their preferred automobile brand than some of us get about diamond stones versus oilstones versus water stones versus _______ (insert your favorite sharpening system here).

In my case my experience included a necessity to be frugal and purchase second hand tools. This not only gave me a better understanding of the tools while saving some money, it enabled me to rehab tools and sell them to make a little money. The money was usually spent to buy more tools.

jtk

[Adam Grund]

My beginning in woodworking had me in a situation a little stretched financially and having the spare time of any average man with 4 kids and a job.

jtk
4 kids?! My hat’s off to you.
I have 2, oldest is 2 and I can barely find enough time to remind myself to breathe. I just keep collecting tools telling myself one day down the road I’ll finally have some time to use all the tools I’ve collected.

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

I bought a radial arm saw for $25.00 at a yard sale four years ago. I brought it home, plugged it in and sawed a 2x4 to make sure it worked. I have never used it since. It serves as a nice table to set things on. About all it gets used for. If I had not purchased it, I would have needed one every other week. Sort of like buying a snow shovel only to go through a spell without snow.

[Nicholas Lawrence]

I often say no on sharpening questions. Many people post that they are frustrated with perfectly serviceable stones. They do not need to spend $300 on the latest thing from Japan. They just need to learn how to sharpen.

[Dave Lehnert]

Years ago I was asked by a friend about a wood lathe he saw at the local Sears Hardware store. He was not a woodworker but was interested in wood turning. I talked him out of it. Think I recommended a JET Mini lathe. He has since passed away.
Looking back I should have encouraged him with the Sears model. It was at a price point and brand he was comfortable with. At the end of the day im sure it would have worked fine. He never did get into wood turning.

[Doug Dawson]

Contemplation
The more i think about it we,as a group, are pretty good. Something never offered is "you'd be better off putting that $1100 in an IRA" But if the OP asks a Chevy or a Ford we discuss the pros and cons we have learned from our experience. Of course someone will say buy a Cadillac but rarely will someone suggest a yugo because we know that's false economy

You ARE actually better off putting that money into an IRA. But what are you going to do in the meantime? Speaking of economy, a better quality tool might save you from buying the tool twice or more, which is a long-term saving (the proceeds from which you should put into an IRA, if that's still an option for you.)

Assuming somebody is committed to this (a)vocation, which most people in this forum are.

[Bill Dufour]

The IRA yearly limit is now $6,000 per year, per person. So the IRS thinks $500 a month is the correct amount to put into your IRA. I just added $500 extra to my 2019 IRA because they retroactively increased the limits for 2019.
Make it a ROTH IRA not the traditional kind.
Bill D

[Rick Potter]

You want rejection?

Just post , asking if you should buy a Craftsman Radial Arm saw. :rolleyes:

[Rich Engelhardt]

Say no? Of course not - we're all tool sluts... ;)

[Ron Citerone]

I often say no on sharpening questions. Many people post that they are frustrated with perfectly serviceable stones. They do not need to spend $300 on the latest thing from Japan. They just need to learn how to sharpen.


Agreed! I have some money invested in sharpening stones and a jig, but not a crazy amount, and I have a system that get me the chisel and plane iron sharpness I need. When ever younger people ask me about sharpening I tell them go with the scary sharp method or another sandpaper based idea to start and maybe forever.

[Jim Koepke]

When ever younger people ask me about sharpening I tell them go with the scary sharp method or another sandpaper based idea to start and maybe forever.

This was used in my beginning days and worked well at teaching me about sharpening.

It also taught me purchasing sand paper all the time for sharpening can become more expensive than purchasing decent stones.

Now days my sandpaper usage is mostly for on the lathe, putting a good point on a pencil or removing heavy rust from metal.

jtk

[mike stenson]

It also taught me purchasing sand paper all the time for sharpening can become more expensive than purchasing decent stones.



Yep, it can easily become false-economy.

[Wade Lippman]

When I moved I sold all my difficult to move tools and bought new ones. In most cases I upgraded, but I downgraded my bandsaw because I didn't think I used it enough to justify the price of a good one. That's saying "no", isn't it?