prevent a miter gauge from moving in the slot

[Günter VögelBerg]

I am sorry for all the inane posts I have been making lately. I am in the mode of improving my shop in small, incremental ways and my brain is all over the place.

I have the grizzly sliding table attachment and the miter gauge it comes with has quite a bit of slop and I am required to square it to 90 every time I take it off the saw. I have tried various improvements and non has been satisfactory. I just ordered a Jessem 07150 miter gauge after reading a lot of reviews. I am hoping to continue to use the slider but replace the miter gauge with this one. This would require that I affix the miter gauge into the slot so it does not move, but I would still need to be able to easily remove it for rip cuts then reinstall. Ideas?

[Jamie Buxton]

Miter gauges are supposed to slide, but not rattle in the slot. Most good ones have little allen screws going horizontally through the bar. You can adjust them out to remove slop. When you get them right, the gauge slides okay, and is easily pulled out of the slot.

[Günter VögelBerg]

Miter gauges are supposed to slide, but not rattle in the slot. Most good ones have little allen screws going horizontally through the bar. You can adjust them out to remove slop. When you get them right, the gauge slides okay, and is easily pulled out of the slot.

But I need it to not slide because it will be affixed to a sliding table top. I want to be able to lock it in place, loosen it for removal, then lock it in place again, preferably without tools or fiddly adjustments.

[Davis Young]

If the miter slot is a t-slot with a matching t-bar, a threaded through-hole through the miter bar will allow a knob or handle with male thread to contact the bottom of the slot and “push up” the miter bar against the t-slot. If there is no t-slot, I have seen miter bars with a split groove lengthwise that, when a knob with male thread is inserted, will spread the bar to lock it in place.

[David Buchhauser]

You can drill holes for dowel pins (I would probably use 1/4" dowel pins) in the bottom of the miter slot. Match drill these to 2 holes in the miter bar. Your choice whether to press the dowel pins into the miter bar or miter slot bottom. Then drill/c'bore a hole in the miter bar and match/drill and tap threads into the bottom of the miter slot. The hole in the miter bar is counter bored so a socket head cap screw can be used to secure the miter bar to the bottom of the miter slot with the top of the cap screw being slightly below the top of the miter bar when installed and tightened. Let me know if you need further information.
David

[Jamie Buxton]

It sounds like you have two functions you're trying to cram into one device. You might do better to use two devices.

One function is a standard miter gauge. It slides in a miter slot. It is not bolted down. All you need is a good standard miter gauge, and you can buy that.

The other function is some sort of angle thingy which fastens firmly to your sliding table. It doesn't ride in the saw's miter slot, and has nothing to do with it. So make that angle thingy bolt to the sliding table. Include registration pins so you can remove it and put back in exactly the same spot. You can use bolts and a wrench to bolt it in place, or if you're completely allergic to tools, use bolts with knob heads on them. You can buy those at Woodcraft or McMaster-Carr.

[Rick Potter]

Question. Is the slot in the Grizzly slider a regular sized 3/4" slot like on cabinet saws, or is it a larger slot, as used on sliding table saws?

If it is the larger style, as used on Grizzly sliding table saws, Grizzly sells lockdown bars with a threaded hole, or you could make one from hardwood. If it is that style, there should be one on the miter gage that came with it.

[David Buchhauser]

It sounds like you have two functions you're trying to cram into one device. You might do better to use two devices.

One function is a standard miter gauge. It slides in a miter slot. It is not bolted down. All you need is a good standard miter gauge, and you can buy that.

The other function is some sort of angle thingy which fastens firmly to your sliding table. It doesn't ride in the saw's miter slot, and has nothing to do with it. So make that angle thingy bolt to the sliding table. Include registration pins so you can remove it and put back in exactly the same spot. You can use bolts and a wrench to bolt it in place, or if you're completely allergic to tools, use bolts with knob heads on them. You can buy those at Woodcraft or McMaster-Carr.

The table saw already has a sliding attachment, so no need for the miter gauge to slide in the slot. He just wants a method to remove it for conventional work, and put it in place for setting the work piece at the appropriate angle for cutting. The goal is to have it always go back to the exact same place so he doesn't need to square it to the blade every time he re-installs it. I have the same Grizzly sliding attachment on my saw, so I can "feel his pain" as far as re-squaring it every time. I don't take mine off very often, as I have another table saw that I can use for other cutting tasks.
David

[David Buchhauser]

I made an aluminum bar that slides into my miter slot for quicker squaring up of the miter gauge. The problem with the red Grizzly supplied miter gauge/fence is that it has slop in the adjustment so that even it were bolted down and doweled, the gauge itself is very inaccurate and not repeatable.
David


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[David Buchhauser]

I added the Incra miter 5000 to my saw. It rides on the sliding attachment, but locates using the miter slot in the table saw wing. The Incra miter bar has adjusters to tighten it up in the miter slot to take out any side play (or slop). I normally just leave the Grizzly red miter fence in place, although it could be removed without affecting the Incra sled. I also have a small F&F jig that fits onto the Incra 5000 for smaller work. For me - this is a hobby. It's not a production wood working shop.
David

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[Wayne Cannon]

The Incra miter bars have adjusters that are accessible from the top, i.e., while the bar is in the slot so they can easily be tightened to pick the bar in place. This is as opposed to most bars with a set screw through the width of the bar.

Unfortunately, the Incra approach attempts to center the bar in the slot and does not reference the bar against either side of the slot. However, this is not a concern for you, since for your application, you can square the miter fence to the slot after locking the bar in place.

[Matthew Curtis]

I have the same grizzly sliding attachment. I squared the miter fence and then marked a line across the sliding attachment so that the next time I installed the fence I can use the line as a reference. Not the best solution but it works pretty good.

[Lee Schierer]

My Kreg miter gauge bar was a little loose in my miter gauge slot when I first got it. I had some UHMW adhesive backed tape on hand that was .005" thick. I ran a strip of the tape down one side of the miter gauge bar. This eliminated the slop but still lets the miter gauge slide smoothly. Each application of tape lasts several years. McMaster-Carr has thin UHMW tape.

[Günter VögelBerg]

Well...I didn't realize the miter slots in the slider are different. This might not work like i want it to. I am wondering if i can swap the bar in the jessem for the grizzly bar.

[Günter VögelBerg]

So I am thinking I can remove the miter gauge from the bar, put a shim of either aluminum or umhw (would be about 3/16) between the miter bar and the rest of the assembly, then re-install. I can use one of the existing knurled handles from my grizzly, tap a whole in the miter bar to receive it, and use it to lock the gauge in place. Am I nuts?

[David Buchhauser]

So I am thinking I can remove the miter gauge from the bar, put a shim of either aluminum or umhw (would be about 3/16) between the miter bar and the rest of the assembly, then re-install. I can use one of the existing knurled handles from my grizzly, tap a whole in the miter bar to receive it, and use it to lock the gauge in place. Am I nuts?

I assume that you are talking about a new miter gauge and not the problematic Grizzly miter gauge/fence? I'm not really following what you are proposing. Perhaps a sketch of your proposed modifications/assembly would help clarify.
David

[Tom Bender]

How about something better, an adjustable angled fence that pivots near the blade. In simplest form, a piece of angle iron across the back of the sled (is that what you call the slidy thing?), pinned to the sled at the right end, so it just misses the blade when slid forward. At the left end a second pin drops into holes in the sled at every convenient angle.

Now a couple of upgrades,

a second pivot hole further forward so the left end can be angled back for the reverse angles

holes to hold a sacrificial fence across the blade

add movable end stops, maybe use strut instead of angle iron

add dust collection

add a scale and labels for the angles

devise a fine angle adjustment

add a protractor

add magnets to secure it to the sled

[John K Jordan]

How about something better, an adjustable angled fence that pivots near the blade. ...

That's how my Robland sliding attachment is made. I use it with a PM-66. There is a pivot post, a long "miter" gauge with a zero stop and clamp to hold the work. The cast iron table has no slot for a miter gauge. I haven't used the a miter gauge with the saw since I installed the slider.

I don't have a picture but the little picture in the manual shows it:

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JKJ

[Jonathan M Peters]

Have you considered building a crosscut sled that can do angles? Would that fix your issue?

[Günter VögelBerg]

I finally got a chance to unbox the miter gauge today and it is a finely engineered and machined instrument. I appreciate all the various suggestions, but at this point I am only looking to adapt the slider to use this miter gauge. I'm stubborn like that. I have attached some quick pictures. I can come back with more with some measurements. I was thinking I would just make a new miter bar that fits the slot on the slider. I even got some aluminum to use. But for reasons that are difficult to expaiin without better pictures this is going to be tricky without a mill. I am not entirely opposed to actually modifying the slider--routing out the aluminum on the top of the miter slot so the gauge can sit in it then securing it somehow. Is this nuts?

Or maybe it is back to the drawing board. But I really do like this miter gauge.

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[David Buchhauser]

Hi Gunter,
Have you had a chance to check how repeatable the 90 degree positioning is when you remove and then reattach the gauge to your sliding attachment?
David

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[David Buchhauser]

OK - I misread your post (didn't read it thoroughly) and was under the impression that the Jessem Miter Gauge bar was narrow enough that it fit right into your slot in the sliding attachment. I see now that is not the case. You need a bar that is shaped like a T to slide into the slot. I have a milling machine. If you want to send me some of the aluminum bar stock and the dimensions of the mounting holes for the miter gauge, I will be happy to machine the aluminum bar to fit the slot and miter gauge at no cost to you (other than the return USPS postage). I have the same Grizzly sliding attachment, so I will be able to check the fit. I will send you a PM with my contact info.
David

[Günter VögelBerg]

David, I really appreciate you offer. However, the thing I have run into is that there is what appears to be a sealed bearing within the miter bar.

I believe I have found a good solution. I modified the slider to enlarge the miter slot so I can drop the miter gauge in without modifying it. I am going to tap a hole in the slider to accept a 3/8-16 thread, which is the same thread as the handle in the Jessem gauge, then I can tighten the handle buy screwing it into the receiving hole, thus holding the miter gauge in place and keeping it flat against the table. Because the handle of the Jessem did not have a long enough screw I am going to drill and tap one of the handles from the grizzly gauge to accept a 3/8 threaded rod. The handles from the grizzly are better anyway. I'll post some pictures when I get it all put together. I hope to pick up the hardware I need today.

[Erik Loza]

Gunter, why not machine some T-stock for that slot in your slider on a router table? Either hardwood, and epoxy in some threaded inserts, or phenolic (Garolite/Arboron) and tap directly into the material. I've had customer do this in the past.

Erik

[Günter VögelBerg]

Gunter, why not machine some T-stock for that slot in your slider on a router table? Either hardwood, and epoxy in some threaded inserts, or phenolic (Garolite/Arboron) and tap directly into the material. I've had customer do this in the past.

Erik

Unless I am misunderstanding what you propose I'm not sure what I would gain by doing this. I would still need to attach it to the slider, which would require tapping more holes.

[David Buchhauser]

David, I really appreciate you offer. However, the thing I have run into is that there is what appears to be a sealed bearing within the miter bar.

I believe I have found a good solution. I modified the slider to enlarge the miter slot so I can drop the miter gauge in without modifying it. I am going to tap a hole in the slider to accept a 3/8-16 thread, which is the same thread as the handle in the Jessem gauge, then I can tighten the handle buy screwing it into the receiving hole, thus holding the miter gauge in place and keeping it flat against the table. Because the handle of the Jessem did not have a long enough screw I am going to drill and tap one of the handles from the grizzly gauge to accept a 3/8 threaded rod. The handles from the grizzly are better anyway. I'll post some pictures when I get it all put together. I hope to pick up the hardware I need today.

It won't be a problem to install a sealed bearing into the new aluminum miter bar (I run a full machine shop here). I would imagine a replacement bearing is available directly from Jessem, or it may be a standard size readily available from a bearing supplier (or online). The stock miter bar is still too short for the slider slot (according to your photo) and would require spacers to raise it up to table level. Removing and disassembling your slider to take to a machine shop to have the slot machined out may be a real hassle and expensive. I would also install 1/4" holes at each end of the miter bar with matching holes in the bottom of the slot for repeatable registration, and a bolt as you have suggested to lock it down. The 1/4" holes will use removable dowel pins. You can send me some photos of the top of your miter bar with the gauge removed to verify the bearing and fastener locations.
David

[Erik Loza]

Unless I am misunderstanding what you propose I'm not sure what I would gain by doing this. I would still need to attach it to the slider, which would require tapping more holes.

No need to tap the table. The mitre gauge sucks down to the gib bar (which you would fabricate) by screwing force. Just like an eccentric clamp setup. This works because you have a T-shaped slot rather than a U-shaped slot. The idea being that you can slide the mitre fence setup anywhere up and down length of the sliding table as needed. Does this make sense?

Erik

[David Buchhauser]

No need to tap the table. The mitre gauge sucks down to the gib bar (which you would fabricate) by screwing force. Just like an eccentric clamp setup. This works because you have a T-shaped slot rather than a U-shaped slot. The idea being that you can slide the mitre fence setup anywhere up and down length of the sliding table as needed. Does this make sense?

Erik


Yes Erik - that makes perfect sense to me!
David

[Günter VögelBerg]

Everyone, thank you for the ideas and kind offers of help. I believe I have found a solution. It is somewhat crude, but it works well and I think I am fairly satisfied with it for now,

I removed the handle from the grizzly miter gauge and tapped it to receive a threaded rod, then tapped a corresponding hole in the bottom of the miter track on the slider. I ended up having to drill out the tapped hole in the Jessem gauge since something was not quite right in the geometry. I expanded the miter slow with a plunge router so that I can drop the miter gauge in it, then I tighten it down with the handle. With a little adjusting it sits flat and cuts perfect 90s. Once I got the adjusting done I was able to remove it, re-attach it, and change the miter angle without losing the 90. The Jessem gauge has a clever stop pin to return the fence to "zero" in order to utilize the ruler on it, but since I moved the gauge further from the blade I can't use it. In future I may try to drill some holes to make this work for me because I think it is a nice feature.

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