Portable DC - Jet DC-1100CK or DC-1200CK

[Frank Hagan]

It doesn't look like I can swing the larger Dust Gorilla style cyclones for my little shop, but I'm thinking the portable DC with a cartridge filter might work for me. The "total installed cost" of a cyclone with dedicated ducting should be about $2,000, whereas a portable with cartridge I can get for about $600 with a flex duct for collection.

I noticed the larger Jet DC-1200CK is actually a bit cheaper than the smaller DC-1100CK version. The 1200 requires a 230v circuit, and the 1100 a 115v, but since I would need a dedicated circuit anyway, I don't see a problem getting either one.

Any others in this class I should be considering? I do want the finer filtration that a cartridge filter gives me.

[Jim Becker]

Check the specs...choose the one with the larger impeller; likely the 1200. The more air you can move, the better the chip collection will be.

[Michael Gabbay]

Frank - I'd also look at the new Delta DCs. They seem to have much higher CFM ratings. I started with the Jet 1100 and got a custom 1 micron bag from AFF. I then added metal duct work after I got tired of hooking and unhooking machines. I'm now looking at replacing the Jet DC with a Gorilla.

You might want to consider the Gorilla with a modified duct layout. Start with the main run and have one or two drops with flex hose on the end. Then, over time add more permanent/dedicated hookups. It's alot more cost effective to start with a good core system and add the duct work over time. IMHO.

[Kent Cartwright]

Frank:

I went down the road your are considering (went with the 1200 due to higher CFM's) and I would not do it again. In a very short period of time, I am wishing I had saved the cash for the full blown cyclone system with ductwork. I am not bashing the 1200, as it does the job well. However, I find myself not using it as much as I should because it is a pain to maneuver around my small shop. Had I taken the plunge on the cyclone (with remote on/off) my shop would now be much cleaner and healthier as I would use it for ALL of my machines. Soooo, 9 months after I bought the 1200, I am already looking at the cyclones and ductwork to "get the job done right".

Just my two cents worth.

Merry Christmas :-)

Kent

[David Pettibone]

Hello Frank

I now have the 2Hp Dust Gorilla and HAD the 2 Hp Jet Cannister Style DC before that. I cut a lot of particleboard, which I told the rep(Jet) when I was thinking about purchasing it. He said it would work fine, no problem.

My motor burned out in about a year and a half and it wasn't a bad motor. What the problem was is the fine particleboard sticks to and in the large pleats on the cannister. There is a coating of some kind of the pleats. When you use the flapper to knock it down, it doesn't work quite as good as they claim. I used my flapper and stayed back about 6-8 inches using compressed air. I then took it out on the driveway and blew it out 3 times. Every time I lifted the cannister up and moved it there was huge amounts of particleboard dust on the driveway.

Eventually I was using it and the motor started making a funny noise. It was being starved because the pleats were caked with dust and not enough air was getting out of the cannister. Mind you, this is after I cleaned it out. No matter what you do, it's still caked on the pleats, trust me on this one. I threw my mentally challenged theory by two repair specialists, one who replaced my motor under warranty, and both said "you are absolutely correct". They also added that the cartridges are a very poor design and simply put, they don't work. Now, if your cutting particles that are not that fine, then maybe you won't have a problem, that I don't know.

The rep actually called and left a message telling me that because I cut particleboard, I will have to turn the flapper after each cut!!!!! I saved this message on my answering machine and a few of the doubters
got to hear it.

The above is just my personal experience, please don't attack me. I am not cutting down Jet, I'm just saying if your cutting fine particles with any of these cannister style collectors, be :eek: aware of what can happen.

I will also add that Jet "took care of me" after a year plus of phone calls and problems with the unit and there was absolutely no bickering or yelling, just trying to solve the problem. Maybe I use mine more than most, but it still shouldn't do that. Good luck with whatever you purchase, but I'd still go with a cyclone. I purchased my duct work locally (Michigan) and it was no where close to what Oneida wanted. That's your choice and I obviously don't know your set-up either. Take care.:)

Gratefully, David

p.s. Am I too detailed or too involved with my responses? :confused: I am thinking it would help someone in their decision or am I all wet???:confused: :confused: :confused:

[tod evans]

p.s. Am I too detailed or too involved with my responses? :confused: I am thinking it would help someone in their decision or am I all wet???:confused: :confused: :confused:[/quote
you speaketh the truth, how can that be all wet? tod

[David Pettibone]

I was just checkin, because my wife tells me I can be overly detailed. I didn't want to bore anyone with minute details and wasn't sure if I was. Your a seasoned:) woodworker, so I'm taking your word for it.

Gratefully, David

[Frank Hagan]

David, thanks for your response ... I didn't think it was too long at all! I have a concern about filling up the INSIDE of a cartridge filter (in a former life I worked for a water filtration company that used cartridge filters that were easier to clean ... by having the flow deposit the debris on the OUTSIDE of the pleats). I don't cut a lot of MDF or particle board right now because of the dust problem, but with a DC I expect to cut more.

Also, thanks to the rest of you. I need to think a bit about this. I hadn't thought of using a cyclone with a mix of permanent ducting and flexible drops. I don't have a lot of space in my shop, but I might be able to fit a cyclone where I have a shelf unit (the cieling is higher there.) Using a mix of ducting would solve my problem with not being sure about the final design of the shop.

[Bob Dodge]

Hi Frank,

You might want to give some thought to a very decent 1 1/2hp dc. The new Delta 50-761 might be just the ticket, while you grow your shop.

That Delta has very nice overall fit and finish, and for that price-range, I'd say exceptional. The 1 micron filter, is oversized to 20.5 sq.ft. for low back-pressure. The needle-felt used, is probably the best I've seen on a consumer-grade dc. This is the same filter used on the 2hp version, and the same cloth used on all the others in that new line-up.

Delta, usually provides motors with manual thermal oveload protection. THat's not common at that price-level. Also, most of the Delta motors I've seen, are rated for "Continuous" duty-cycle operation. You sure don't see that everyday at that price-range.

The blower is equipped with an 11 1/2" impeller, and should provide excellant suction with a 5" pipe. This dc should easily pull 800 cfm at your largest source requirement machine, if you do your ducting efficiently.

Many small shops can easily get by with 800 cfm at one major machine, like a table-saw, and run a 5" pipe to the jointer and planer. That'll take care of an 8" jointer, and a 15" planer.

The rest of your small machines, can use 4" pipe. (router-table, etc)

Starting out with a half-decent dc, need not break the bank either. Start out by taking care of your saw, then develope your network to the other machines over time. In the meantime, you may want to get a good length of flex-hose, and make a branch off your table-saw pipe. That can hook-up to your planer/jointer until you up-grade to a dedicated 5" smooth-walled pipe.

That Delta, should pull VERY close, to 830 cfm through a 5" pipe, which is very strong suction for a 1 1/2 hp unit. That's plenty for your table-saw, even after adding an overarm blade-cover.

The 5" pipe to the planer/jointer, can be a single branch with a 5x5x5 wye, and a branch to the planer, and jointer. If your ducting is well layed out, you can easily expect 550 or more cfm (4000+ fpm). You can do even better than that, with a lil tweaking and some 'out-of-the-box' thinking.

One example, would be to use a pre-sep at the jointer/planer. That would allow you to run an over-sized pipe to the pre-sep, conserving suction pressure for the short branches from the planer/jointer, to the pre-sep. This would mean strong suction at the tool, and having the pre-sep close by, is VERY handy for monitoring waste-bin overflow. Those two machines will produce the most waste, in the shortest time.

That Delta retails for around $279. and there are absolutely NO upgrades required. Plus, you don't have to pay extra for shipping. Delta has great distribution, and any good machinery store near you, can get you that dc. I believe Delta is even offering a $30. rebate at the moment, so it would cost $249. Seems like a great dc for the money.

Bob

[Frank Hagan]

Thanks for all the responses. After talking with LOML about it, and seeing that most people tend to buy the smaller units and then upgrade later, I've decided to bite the bullet and buy a cyclone unit.

I'm most likely going to get the 2 HP Dust Gorilla from Oneida. A close second is the new Grizzly G0440 2 HP Cyclone. Both use import motors, but the rest of the Oneida unit is built in the US. It is just slightly more, all things considered (shipping, etc.)

I actually figured out that a portable unit will take up as much room as a cyclone, but has to be moved around, and moving something that large in my small shop will be a hassle. I'm afraid I'll just skip it for a lot of quick operations, where if I have a permanently mounted unit, I'll always just turn it on.

[Travis Porter]

I got my 3 HP Dust Gorrilla mounted this weekend. It is one heck of a machine. 3 to 4 weeks lead time.

[tod evans]

please don`t discount the designs bill pentz approves they`re in the same price range.........02 tod

[Cecil Arnold]

Frank, I think you made the right decision. I've got an 1100 that I upgraded from a bag, to a felt bag, to a cart. and am looking at a cyclone which I could have paid for with all the money I spent fooling around.

[Scott D Johnson]

Here's my setup. Not a Gorilla, but for a "hobbyist" it works.

I have most of the "standard size WW tools" (14" BS, 10" contractor style TS,CMS, 13" planer,6" jointer, Router Table, mini lathe w/bed ext.,ROS). I have a 12' x 16' basement shop.

Harbor Freight 2HP DC 1600CFM (#45378-7VGA) on sale = $180
Harbor Freight DC Accessory kit = $43
(www.harborfreight.com (http://www.harborfreight.com))
Woodcraft Wireless Remote#145475 = $50
Wynn Conversion Kit 35A100SBOL $118+$12 shipping=$130 (not purchased yet)(http://www.wynnenv.com/)
PSI plastic bage $16 per 10 pack(not purchased yet)
4 @ 10' section 4" PVC = $35
Extra blast gates http://www.outlettools.com (http://www.outlettools.com/) = $10
Extra fittings, flexible hose, hose clamps,couplers, etc = $50
=============================
Total estimated cost $498

[Frank Hagan]

Frank, I think you made the right decision. I've got an 1100 that I upgraded from a bag, to a felt bag, to a cart. and am looking at a cyclone which I could have paid for with all the money I spent fooling around.

I know I'll end up doing that with a smaller unit, and I got the go-ahead from LOML to spend the money on a cyclone. So I'm headed that direction!

[Frank Hagan]

please don`t discount the designs bill pentz approves they`re in the same price range.........02 tod

I've looked at both the Woodsucker II (which he used to recommend) and the ClearVue. Larry from Woodsucker still hasn't responded to my request for shipping information (going on 10 days now), so perhaps he's away for the holidays. What if I had a problem with the unit?

The ClearVue unit uses a 3 HP motor that has FLA rating of 20.1 amps, and yet people are putting it on a 20 amp breaker. I think it needs a 30 amp breaker, but that's easy enough to provide. There's a bit more assembly, getting filters from Wynn instead of as part of the package, the collection bin, switches, etc., and ... the most important part ... LOML thinks it looks like its "assembled by the Keebler elves". Not sure I have a good answer for that!

Bill removed the reviews of Grizzly and Oneida cyclones after a "heated discussion with a vendor who has some valid points" as he puts it. I had read those reviews, and if I remember correctly, Bill thought that the Grizzly cyclone had used his ideas, but then had made compromises to facilitate shipping that he tought would compromise performance. I really respect his opinions, but I think I also remember that Bill could not test systems anymore due to his health problems (note that Ed on the ClearVue site has a curve for his motor-impeller combination that doesn't include the cyclone or ducting, as Bill wasn't able to actually test the units with dust, etc.)

The large base of installed Oneida systems and satisfied customers has tilted me in their favor. Grizzly is a close second because of the cheaper freight and more included "stuff", but they are new with their cyclones and contain no domestic made components (the motor from Oneida is an import, but the rest is domestically produced). Given equal performance and value, I will choose to buy American over imports.

[Allan Johanson]

Hi Frank,

For comparison purposes, keep in mind the Clearvue (with 14" fan) is approximately the same (I think a little better) than the Oneida 3HP and for sure the Grizz 3HP cyclones. Not just the 2HP versions. With that in mind you'd be getting a lot of value with the Clearvue.

I have a homemade Bill Pentz cyclone with the 5HP Leeson and 14" fan and it is awesome! I used to have a 2HP single-stage DC and there is simply no comparison. When I've e-mailed Bill in the past he has said the Clearvue is a slightly tweaked design of the metal one I made. It's a bit more efficient so I wouldn't worry if you're afraid that Bill may not have tested a completed unit.

Cheers,

Allan