Rough Cut Cherry Board Ends Darker and Less Dense

[Chris Fiore]

I'm beginning my most ambitious project to date, dining chairs, and I'm currently in the process of initial jointing/planing to establish my boards. I'm using 8/4 rough cut cherry to get to 1 1/2 inch boards. I got a great price on a number of "off-cut" 8 foot boards, and I'm encountering something I've never seen in my short woodworking career. I'd like some help understanding what it is.

In the picture the left piece is what I consider to be "normal" cherry and the right is the "darker/less dense" cherry. The picture messes with the color a bit, the left board has a the light red hue I expect, while in person the right board is closer to reddish brown.

Both of these pieces are from the same 8 foot board. 2/3 of it cuts and planes like standard cherry, the latter 1/3 or so is this darker appearance. When cross cutting instead of a nice smooth cut, the darker cherry has a rough porous appearance. These boards have all been kiln dried. Is the darker the cherry the beginnings of dry rot which was stopped in the kiln? I'm assuming it's unusable. Does anyone know what this is?
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[Lee Schierer]

If those two pieces came from the same board, it appears that they were cut from a very small tree. The darker color could be because the tree was already dead before it was cut down. The two worm holes would worry me.

[Bob Grier]

The darker one doesn't look like cherry to me. You say they are both cut from the same board but they don't have the same grain so I don't understand how you cut them from the same board. Did you cut them from the same board or did someone else? Also, there is no white sap wood next to the bark on the right board. Looks like a mahogany to me.

[Malcolm McLeod]

Can't explain the density difference, but Cherry will darken with age.

I acquired some from my father that's at least 30y.o., and it's nearly the color of b.walnut. The color contrast to 'new' cherry is such that I would not mix them in a project.

[jeff norris 2011]

I use cherry allot. Seems to darken fast for about 1-2 years and then slows down. I have no explanation for the two tones though. I will mention that the light one does have the pith in it. I would not try to build furniture with it, as the pith is very unstable.

[Chris Fiore]

I have about 6 8 foot cherry boards. Some have a lot of sapwood and bark still attached. The wood in question is all from same 8 foot board as shown in two pictures. I sectioned it myself based on the final piece length I needed and the size of my planer sled. It looks like some people call this "red rot" or "brown rot"? In the one picture you can see some mold on the outside edge. This was originally in the middle of the board, but it split in two where the mold was located. I can guarantee that this is all locally grown Pennsylvania cherry.

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[David Utterback]

The picture of the re-assembled board shows that it was cut from a log with quite a curve in it. I have also seen contrast in wood tones among pieces from the same cherry board although not to the extent you have. The "slightly" porous section might still be used for non-appearance applications. It does not seem to have gone soft. Best of luck!

[Jim Dwight]

Color difference may be sun exposure. Cherry does not exactly darken with age. It darkens with sunlight exposure. If you stack a board such that part of it is exposed to sunlight and the rest is not, it would darken like that. But density should not reduce. That is more of a concern.

I built a kitchen island for my last house. All the boards I used for drawer fronts and had been rejected by the contractors who bought wood at the dealer I got them from. So they had been there longer and were darker. Figured wood is harder to plane and work with in general but has a better appearance when I was done. But it was not lighter. If anything it was heavier and more dense.

If the dark areas are soft, I would not use the wood. If they are not, I would weigh them carefully to double check your density observation. If they are truly less dense, I wouldn't use them for anything structural but might for something like a panel in a door. But nothing on a chair.

I just made a bed and a couple nightstands of cherry. I like it. Like maple it burns easily if your blade is dirty or fence not well aligned or your feed rate is too slow. But otherwise it works well. And it looks great when you are done. I made my daughter 4 chairs of cherry using Woodsmith plans and they are holding up great. I plan to make some for myself later this year (I plan to make the dining table first).

[Brian Tymchak]

The picture of the re-assembled board shows that it was cut from a log with quite a curve in it.

+1. There's a reason you got the great price on that lumber. That log as Dave mentioned had a large bow in it and probably has internal stresses that will work against you. I would worry about the stability of the wood in the upper portion of the board as it is an extreme plain sawn piece where as the bottom of the board is more quarter sawn. And as mentioned the pith is still in the bottom piece. That will need to be removed.

[peter gagliardi]

The darker and lighter weight are indicative of some level of decay/rot in the tree. I get a fair amount of this when
I get non- wholesale supplier wood.

[glenn bradley]

I will add that cherry, like walnut and others, comes in a variety of hues. I mark my cherry,walnut and white oak with "batch" letters before I put it in the racks. This saves me time when I am pulling boards for parts selection. I know that all the boards in batch B have similar coloration and all the boards in batch D have similar coloration although they may be very different from each other.

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[Chris Fiore]

I plan on using the Quarter Sawn sections for the front legs. I have separate "prime" 8/4 heartwood which I bought for the rear legs, and it's in great shape. The crest rail for the chair is about 14" long. Is pith a complete no go for anything at all, even something that short?

[glenn bradley]

I plan on using the Quarter Sawn sections for the front legs. I have separate "prime" 8/4 heartwood which I bought for the rear legs, and it's in great shape. The crest rail for the chair is about 14" long. Is pith a complete no go for anything at all, even something that short?


If you really mean pith, this is a no-go. If you mean sapwood, many avoid it but, I have used it for decorative purposes.

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[johnny means]

Cherry will darken with age. Sunlight just speeds up that process. Without getting my hands on the material, I would guess that your porous areas are some sort of rot. I've seen variances like this in trees that were harvested well after falling or dying. Personally, I wouldn't build an "ambitious" project with questionable material as my time and effort are the most expensive components of any of my work.

[Malcolm McLeod]

Color difference may be sun exposure. Cherry does not exactly darken with age. It darkens with sunlight exposure.
...

I don't know the chemistry, but I have also heard oxygen causes it. What I do know is I have cut and used some of the 'old' cherry I have. The color goes completely through the board(s). It is uniformly dark, relative to newly milled 'light' cherry, and I'm semi-sure that the interior of the board has not been lounging at the pool when I wasn't looking
...:confused::confused::cool::confused::confused:. It started out life in the light range.

Other than a couple of moves and the 2-3 minute trip to<>from the truck, the exterior of these boards has never seen the light of day either..?

[Bradley Gray]

Looks like your slice is just inside the slab from a twisty log.

Chairs are way up there in the list of projects that require premium wood. Don't screw it up before you start.

[Dan Hahr]

Other than those two slabs of walnut, don't use any of that stack of wood for furniture. It might be okay for some turned pieces or small projects. Cherry is not that expensive these days.

Dan

[David Utterback]

I plan on using the Quarter Sawn sections for the front legs. I have separate "prime" 8/4 heartwood which I bought for the rear legs, and it's in great shape. The crest rail for the chair is about 14" long. Is pith a complete no go for anything at all, even something that short?

If the legs have flat surfaces, the quarter sawn grain will appear on opposite faces with flat sawn grain on the two adjoining faces. Folks often use rift sawn wood to reduce this contrast.

The pith contains wood that oriented in different directions all around the center which causes a lot of internal stress. It is best avoid unless you can somehow eliminate the effects of the stress in the design. I would not want to use it for a crest rail which is connected at the ends to the rear legs, often with mortise and tenon or similar joints. Crest rails are frequently thinner stock which would also make me avoid stock with larger internal stresses. Good luck!

[jeff norris 2011]

If you really mean pith, this is a no-go. If you mean sapwood, many avoid it but, I have used it for decorative purposes.

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It is Pith in the first picture for sure. I am also a bug fan of using cherry sap wood in the right ways and places.


I don't know the chemistry, but I have also heard oxygen causes it. What I do know is I have cut and used some of the 'old' cherry I have. The color goes completely through the board(s). It is uniformly dark, relative to newly milled 'light' cherry, and I'm semi-sure that the interior of the board has not been lounging at the pool when I wasn't looking
...:confused::confused::cool::confused::confused:. It started out life in the light range.

Other than a couple of moves and the 2-3 minute trip to<>from the truck, the exterior of these boards has never seen the light of day either..?

I don't know how it works, but light will cause faster darkening. I used to often have tanned cherry pieces in full sun and they get darker fast just in a afternoon.



Looks like your slice is just inside the slab from a twisty log.

Chairs are way up there in the list of projects that require premium wood. Don't screw it up before you start.

I think people often forget this. Chair take the most abuse of just about anything we make. 100lbs of pounds in them regularly, moved all the time, lot of tork and twisting.

Start with stable wood and them make great joints.

[Prashun Patel]

I don't mean to rain on your parade, but the color variance is IMHO the least of the issues with that wood.

I'll defer you that sections are in good shape, but most dining chairs will require straight grain on the back posts or rear legs. You may be challenged to find enough straight grain for a full set.

Don't settle for grain run out - even if it means wasting more wood than you want.

I wouldn't worry too much about color differences. Chairs have so many facets, even SAME color wood will appear darker or lighter depending on how the light presents. In addition, cherry from different trees ages at different rates. As long as you don't juxtapose those boards on the seat, you may not notice a difference in the final product...

[Jim Dwight]

It's hard to refute others experiences but mine is that when I plane cherry boards I uncover lighter wood. If the board was already planned and I put it through again it comes out of the planner lighter.

The old boards I used for drawer fronts were dark rough cut, however, and only lightened a little when planned. I bevel cut the edges for a raised panel look and that revealed wood a little lighter but still pretty dark. I definitely believe some cherry is darker than other cherry.

The top of my daughters breakfast table, cherry, has not darkened. I made it for her in about 2006. So it is plenty old enough to have darkened. Other wood purchased at the same time from the same supplier has darkened. Her bedroom set, also cherry, for instance has darkened. The chairs have not darkened as much but has darkened more than the table top.

All these experiences tell me that there is a fairly wide range of what happens with the color of cherry. But most of the boards I have made into something lightened when planned and darkened when the project was exposed to sunlight.

A simple experiment will reveal the effect. All you need to do is plane a board, put a piece of tape on it, and leave it in the sunlight for a few days. When you pull off the tape, the area under it will be lighter.

[Tom Bender]

Use that wood to make a practice chair. Plan to burn it afterward so you don't spend too much time on it but work out all the details and setups. You will find some improvements you can make on the real chairs and you will learn plenty about the wood you have. Making your setups twice may seem like wasted effort but it will go much faster the second time.

Also you can work out your finishing scheme.