BenchCraft Vise and Crisscross

[ken hatch]

I've been working on the new 6' bench in addition to the older bench but because the face vise is so sweet on the new bench it is getting most of the love. The two benches are very similar except the old bench is 7' long vs. 6' for the new and the old bench has a wood screw and parallel guide vs. metal screw and crisscross on the new bench. Other than those two things the benches are pretty much alike.

Here is a short video of the vise in use, The bench was not finished and is out in the back garden at the time the video was made.


https://www.facebook.com/kenneth.hatch.52/videos/2664438680305565/?t=1

Because of tool storage I needed/wanted to swap places with the two benches. It was doable by myself because both benches are Moravian and I could remove the slabs then scoot the bases to their new position. It still kicked this old farts butt.

I still have a new BenchCraft Classic Vise screw and a Myers wagon vise on the shelf waiting for a new bench to be built but before that happens I have to lose a bench and it will not be the six footer. If anyone wants a 7' Beech Moravian bench with a Lake Eire wood screw and parallel guide, I have a deal for you.

ken

[ken hatch]

I just have to add: How do you like my OHSA approved safety sandals? :p

ken

[mike stenson]

I noticed the safety slippahs. The hardware looks like it's very nice.. as I'd expect from them. A lot easier than pinning the fulcrum I'd imagine.

I have been contemplating a Moravian bench...

[ken hatch]

I noticed the safety slippahs. The hardware looks like it's very nice.. as I'd expect from them. A lot easier than pinning the fulcrum I'd imagine.

I have been contemplating a Moravian bench...

Mike,

As I've said before, I'm a Moravian fan boy. There is nothing wrong with other styles but I think a Moravian fits the needs of the modern woodworker better. For the first timer the joints are simple and easy, It uses less wood for the same stability, it is portable and because of the simplicity a quick build. If you do decide to build a Moravian get the Will Myers video and do not make any changes, you will find after building a few and working on them there is a reason for almost every joint and part of the the build. And of course I'm just around the corner if you need/want help.

ken

[David Eisenhauer]

Having worked extensively in W Africa, Indonesia and nearby locales, I am very familiar with Chinese safety shoes. And then there was the time I was in the Dominican Republic and saw a Haitian construction crew hand digging slab footings in coral with maddock and pick barefooted. An oil company rep showed up from Houston and was horrified nearly past recovery and started looking for a work boot dealer in Santo Domingo. MY BC leg vise is the most used vise on my bench and I would have it if I could only have one vise in the shop. I do have and use holdfasts, doe feet, stops and the like, but will readily say that I do prefer my tail vise for heavier (dimensioning type) planning. That is not used as often as the leg vise, but works very well when it is used.

[Stew Denton]

Wow Ken,

The vise is really impressive! The bench looks great too.

One question, what kind of lumber is the chop, is it the same as the bench top?

Thanks and regards,

Stew

[Tony Wilkins]

If I was going to build a bench to stand at, I was really leaning toward the Moravian design. I agree that it looks like the best trade off of ease of build and good features to work at for most woodworkers, at least in my totally web based experiences of the benches.

I am Really enjoying the benchcrafted hardware on my low bench.

[Jim Koepke]

Impressive video Ken.

My plan on a leg vise was to make an array of three pins with springs that could be worked with a foot pedal to avoid the bending over all the time.

Now my thoughts are tending toward making a leg vise with a Crisscross.

jtk

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Wow, very impressive. And I love the sandels. I do worry about the lack of a mess, however. I spent the last week cleaning my shop, it was in dire need.

[Rob Luter]

I just have to add: How do you like my OHSA approved safety sandals? :p

ken

Good call. Having the toes fully exposed assures a clean amputation from a dropped chisel. A clean cut is child’s play to reattach. At least that’s what I read on the internet. :rolleyes:

[ken hatch]

Having worked extensively in W Africa, Indonesia and nearby locales, I am very familiar with Chinese safety shoes. And then there was the time I was in the Dominican Republic and saw a Haitian construction crew hand digging slab footings in coral with maddock and pick barefooted. An oil company rep showed up from Houston and was horrified nearly past recovery and started looking for a work boot dealer in Santo Domingo. MY BC leg vise is the most used vise on my bench and I would have it if I could only have one vise in the shop. I do have and use holdfasts, doe feet, stops and the like, but will readily say that I do prefer my tail vise for heavier (dimensioning type) planning. That is not used as often as the leg vise, but works very well when it is used.

David,

Mine was in Africa watching 55gal drums of jet fuel being loaded and unloaded from the bed of pickups with not a shoe in sight. I couldn't watch.

ken

[ken hatch]

Wow Ken,

The vise is really impressive! The bench looks great too.

One question, what kind of lumber is the chop, is it the same as the bench top?

Thanks and regards,

Stew

If I remember, it is Beech just like the slab.

ken

[ken hatch]

If I was going to build a bench to stand at, I was really leaning toward the Moravian design. I agree that it looks like the best trade off of ease of build and good features to work at for most woodworkers, at least in my totally web based experiences of the benches.

I am Really enjoying the benchcrafted hardware on my low bench.


Tony,

I never thought I would find anything better than a Lake Erie wood screw but the BC set up is better.

ken

[ken hatch]

Impressive video Ken.

My plan on a leg vise was to make an array of three pins with springs that could be worked with a foot pedal to avoid the bending over all the time.

Now my thoughts are tending toward making a leg vise with a Crisscross.

jtk


Jim,

You can't go wrong and it is an easier build and install vs. a parallel guide of any kind.

ken

[ken hatch]

Good call. Having the toes fully exposed assures a clean amputation from a dropped chisel. A clean cut is child’s play to reattach. At least that’s what I read on the internet. :rolleyes:


Rob,

Quick feet have saved me a few times. :p

ken

[Rob Luter]

Rob,

Quick feet have saved me a few times. :p

ken

Me too. I took an Exacto knife in the top of the foot when I was in college. It rolled off my drafting board. Quite a learning experience. I’ve been Ninja quick since. Catlike reflexes!

[ken hatch]

Wow, very impressive. And I love the sandels. I do worry about the lack of a mess, however. I spent the last week cleaning my shop, it was in dire need.

Andrew,

The mess is still in the shop :o. I have to a major clean up needed now that the benches have been swapped. Shaping chair parts with a draw knife and spokeshave doesn't leave much sawdust but what a mess of shavings.

When the video was made the bench was out in the back garden so I had room to fiddle with putting everything together. You can't see it but there is one of the portable sized Moravian benches set up just off camera where I can scoot the slab when needed. and at this stage there was a lot of remove and replace of the slab.

ken

[Curt Putnam]

Tony,

I never thought I would find anything better than a Lake Erie wood screw but the BC set up is better.

ken

I was originally set up to go with the Lake Erie screw and the Chain Leg Vise. As a result of some medical issues, I cannot get down to the floor and do the work required of the Chain Leg Vise's installation. The CrissCross looks very tempting. What is your opinion of the Lake Erie screw and a CrissCrosss? TIA, Curt

[ken hatch]

I was originally set up to go with the Lake Erie screw and the Chain Leg Vise. As a result of some medical issues, I cannot get down to the floor and do the work required of the Chain Leg Vise's installation. The CrissCross looks very tempting. What is your opinion of the Lake Erie screw and a CrissCrosss? TIA, Curt

Curt,

First, I have not worked with a wood screw and a crisscross but I can see two potential problems. While my Lake Erie Screws move very freely they do not freely spin like the BC metal screw. The free spinning makes the BC screw very fast. The other is the size of the wood screw, finding room between the slab and the lower stretcher (on a Moravian bench) can be a problem. On a straight leg vise like on a Roubo style bench might not be a problem, again I don't know because I have not built a Roubo with a crisscross. I need to see if there is room on any of my benches to retrofit a crisscross. I know there isn't on the 7 footer but maybe on one of the small portable benches there might be because of the thinner slab.

ken

[Phil Mueller]

Ok, I love that vise action. And it’s likely just as easy, if not more, to install than the traditional parallel guide set up. A few posts about the hassle of the traditional set up and moving the pin. In any given project, I might move the pin once, maybe twice. And every once in a while move it out to hold a wider piece. So bending down once or twice over the period of a week long project doesn’t wear me out. Are folks really moving it like umpteen times an hour?

[Jim Koepke]

Ok, I love that vise action. And it’s likely just as easy, if not more, to install than the traditional parallel guide set up. A few posts about the hassle of the traditional set up and moving the pin. In any given project, I might move the pin once, maybe twice. And every once in a while move it out to hold a wider piece. So bending down once or twice over the period of a week long project doesn’t wear me out. Are folks really moving it like umpteen times an hour?

Different folks do their work in different ways. One example would be of my plaining odd sizes of rough cut pieces on a project before ripping pieces to size.

Often times a piece is planed on the edges and then the face.

So yes, for some of my work, the pin in a parallel guide might have to be moved "umpteen times an hour."

This has been one reason a leg vise hasn't had a lot of appeal to me. The criss cross changes my thoughts on this.

jtk

[ken hatch]

Ok, I love that vise action. And it’s likely just as easy, if not more, to install than the traditional parallel guide set up. A few posts about the hassle of the traditional set up and moving the pin. In any given project, I might move the pin once, maybe twice. And every once in a while move it out to hold a wider piece. So bending down once or twice over the period of a week long project doesn’t wear me out. Are folks really moving it like umpteen times an hour?


Phil,

In answer to your first statement: The crisscross is a much easier install and with a lot less fiddling around to get it working smoothly. But also like you stated moving the pin usually isn't a big deal, in fact I question the use of all the work arounds like the ratchet system. They seem a solution looking for a problem. The BC Classic screw and 14" crisscross is the real deal, about the same cost as a good wood screw, is an easier install, and as you can see from the video, is lighting fast.

ken

[ken hatch]

Different folks do their work in different ways. One example would be of my plaining odd sizes of rough cut pieces on a project before ripping pieces to size.

Often times a piece is planed on the edges and then the face.

So yes, for some of my work, the pin in a parallel guide might have to be moved "umpteen times an hour."

This has been one reason a leg vise hasn't had a lot of appeal to me. The criss cross changes my thoughts on this.

jtk

Jim,

While I've never had a problem working the pin before, once the crisscross showed up I seldom use the bigger bench with a parallel guide. The reason isn't just the pin, the crisscross with the BC screw is just so fast and has such holding power it is hard to go back. As you could see in the video you really do not need to snub it up to hold the work. To get the same holding power from one of my wood screw vises you have to snub to the "sound". If you use wood screws you know the "sound" :p.

I looked into retro fitting the 7' bench but no joy, I needed about another 12-15mm between the slab and lower stretcher to mqke it work.

ken

[mike stenson]

Ken,

Which crisscross is that? They have the 14, that may fit?

[ken hatch]

Ken,

Which crisscross is that? They have the 14, that may fit?


Mike,

The 14" crisscross was made for smaller benches and for use on Moravian style benches where you do not have the full length of the leg to fit the crisscross.

ken

[mike stenson]

Mike,

The 14" crisscross was made for smaller benches and for use on Moravian style benches where you do not have the full length of the leg to fit the crisscross.

ken

I must be missing something, because it still sounds like you don't have enough leg to fit the crisscross. That's pretty common though :)

[ken hatch]

I must be missing something, because it still sounds like you don't have enough leg to fit the crisscross. That's pretty common though :)

Mike,

The Moravian bench doesn't use the leg for its "leg" vise. Instead it uses a vise "backer board" that mounts between the lower stretcher and the slab. I'll see if I have a photos.

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If you look at the left end of the bench you will see the backer board mounted without the screw, crisscross or chop. Next is the vise module from the front.

424698

The vise module from the rear.

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Hope the photos help,

ken

[mike stenson]

Ken,

Thank you! I may work as an engineer, but I was a fine arts major.. and thus a VERY visual person. :)

Those helped tremendously!

[ken hatch]

I just want to add, the reason the bench was in the back garden and the portable bench was next to the new bench is fitting the backer board and the vise module will usually take several remove and replace the slab operations. It is a lot easier to slide the slab off one bench to another than it is to pick that sucker up and put it someplace.

ken

[Phil Mueller]

I do hope my post wasn’t taken as a negative. I would love that vise for what it can do...very smooth and easy and obviously clamps well; thanks for the demo, Ken! For all those reasons, I have definitely considered a retro-fit. I just wouldn’t do it only for the sake of less bending over and moving the pin.

[ken hatch]

I do hope my post wasn’t taken as a negative. I would love that vise for what it can do...very smooth and easy and obviously clamps well; thanks for the demo, Ken! For all those reasons, I have definitely considered a retro-fit. I just wouldn’t do it only for the sake of less bending over and moving the pin.

Phil,

I'm with you on that one. The pin has never been a problem. The metal screw and crisscross is just a better vise.

ken