Shopping for new Table Saw... need advice!

[Steven Shelby]

I currently have a Ryobi BT3000, which has seen better days. After our move into the new house in April, the saw seems to have fallen into severe mis-adjustment. Despite my many attempt to adjust and tune, it seems to be no longer capable of cutting a straight line I cut some dadoes the other day that resembled the path of the Amazon (the river, not the website).

In the midst of my dismay (really, more like major depression), DW exclaims "Honey, why don't you just go buy a new table saw? You're starting to do larger projects so you need to upgrade anyway and we can afford it... Merry Christmas!"

"WOW! Did she really say that????" The answer is abviously "yes" and it brings me to the real point of this post, which is: What should I buy?

I have a 2-car garage/shop so it has to be portable enough to move to the spot between the two garage doors. But I want something bigger than the BT3000. Other than that, my needs are pretty basic for a hobbyist: capable of handling sheet goods when needed, power to rip hardwood. Mobility is key. I like the looks of the DeWalt DW746K, although it's a little more than I wanted to spend. And despite mixed reviews, I like the Delta 36-717 hybrid. Don't know if the Delta is too big to put on a mobile base or not. Even though DW would likely allow me to go over budget, I am self-inflicting a $1k limit on spending.

I am deeply in need of your input, suggestions, thoughts and ideas! What, oh, what should my next Table Saw be???:confused:

[tod evans]

cast iron and horsepower.02 tod

[Scott Loven]

http://www.grizzly.com/outlet/item.aspx?itemnumber=G1023S110
A lot of people like this saw
http://www.grizzly.com/products/item.aspx?itemnumber=G0576
Buy this and get a jointer also!

[Frank Pellow]

If I were in your situation, I would probably go for a Ridgid saw. But, I would not be using it to cut sheet goods. For cutting sheet goods, I recommned a knock down support frame and a Guided Circular Saw System (GCSS).

[Rick de Roque]

The Griz 1023 S for $977 delivered. Or the 1023SL for $1007 delivered. If you don't have 220V and need 110V then the 1023S110 is $977 delivered. I have had the 1023SL for the last 2 1/2 years and it has worked great. I think these cabinet saws are the best value under $1000.00. Mine is on a mobile base. I think the 1023's are a better value than the contracter saws that are in this same price range. Just my .02.

Rick

[Charlie Plesums]

I loved my Ridgid contractor's saw, but look out for the motor sticking out the back of most contractor saws - it was a constant pain trying to hide it in the corner of the garage.

Cabinet saws are more powerful, stable, etc., but also have the motor under rather than behind the saw. You may find the bigger saw actually takes less floor space. Some of the new Hybrid saws are a cross between contractor saw and cabinet saw, and may be worth checking out.

Of course, if you really have a blank check, I strongly recommend a European combination machine - even my wife (the accountant) said "You should have gotten that 30 years ago" after she used it. But there are more digits in the price than most table saws.

[Bart Leetch]

This is the saw I would look at even over the Delta hybrid which has the trunnions fastened to the bottom of the table. This saw has fairly heavy duty trunnions fastened to the cabinet. Over all I have only heard of 1 or 2 people that have had any problem with this saw. the motor is under the saw which is what you need because of where you want to store it. I think the retailer may be having some sales .

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&pid=00922124000&subcat=Table+Saws

[troy havard]

the good thing about a self imposed limit is you can unimpose it. if it were me in your place it would be nothing but the new powermatic cabinet saw with the riving knife. the next would be a general cabinet followed by the grizzly. thats just me though. i have a grizzly 1023 and it does more than i really need it to do.

[scott spencer]

Your'e a lucky guy Steven! Merry Christmas indeed, and the best gift (aside from the reason for the season) isn't even the saw! :)

If you're up to spending a grand, and you have 220v available, the Grizzly 1023SL is a full 3hp commercial style cabinet saw. Triple belt drive, major league cabinet mounted trunnions, good DC from the full enclosure, 500# of stability, and of course a footprint that's actually smaller than a contractor saw's. Sounds like it's a bit on the high side of your range, but it's a saw that will last forever and that you'll never grow out of.

The saws you mentioned are also a logical step and an excellent choice. IMO the hybrids have several of the same advantages that a cabinet saw offers for a bit less money, with more standard electrical requirements, and are more aimed at home hobbyists. The DW is a nice saw, but the newer generations offer some features that the DW does not....cast iron wings, full enclosure, and Biesemeyer fence for example. Sears has 3 hybrids at varying price points made by Orion (former Delta employees) that actually offer cabinet mounted trunnions so they're really easy to align. The top model that Bart mentioned is similar to the Delta and was just on sale last Saturday for $800...it's a worth a look IMO and is worth asking a manager for that sale price. Another excellent candidate would be the new General International 50-220M1 ....your local Woodcraft might have one in stock.

Good luck with your decision and please keep us posted!

http://www.epinions.com/content_184778395268

[Jim Becker]

Given your budget, I'm with Scott...the Griz 1023SL is a fine choice.

[Bart Leetch]

Given your budget, I'm with Scott...the Griz 1023SL is a fine choice.

I am with Jim & Scott on this but I was of the opinion that you may not be want to go quite this much in the money department that is why I recommended the Sears saw.

[lou sansone]

cast iron and horsepower.02 tod

yea what he said and more :)

Try to find a saw with a riving knife. that would be my one bit of advise
lou

[scott spencer]

Given your budget, I'm with Scott...the Griz 1023SL is a fine choice. At the risk of a tangent....you're a man of many hats Jim! :D

[john whittaker]

Steven, you asked for input so here goes....
I was in a similar situation recently...i.e. hobbyist in a garage shop in need of a new table saw...and 1K was my limit. After extensive searching and comparison I ended up picking between the new Craftsman hybrid and the Griz 1023SL. Both are good saws and good values. (Do a search of this forum as there have been a lot of discussions recently about this very subject)
The DeWalt you mention is a nice saw but not as nice as the Griz & Craftsman for about the same money (IMHO) The Delta hybrid made it to the bottom of my list (read the reviews) For what it's worth I take delivery on a new Griz 1023SL tomorrow. It fits on a mobile base and seemed the best value out there right now. Full 3HP motor, heavy trunnions and a good reputation on this site and others. It is time tested and not a new offering. If you don't have 220 available the Craftsman hybrid is a good choice.

Good luck in your search and welcome to SMC.

[John Keane]

Advice you asked for and advice you got, in spades. Forget price. What is it you want to do with a table saw? Decide what it is you want, what saw provides those capabilities, and what appeals to you? Woodworker.com has excellent buys on Delta, with choice of tables and fence; a mobile base is included. All of the saws can accommodate a mobile base. Basic thought I would like to leave you with is you are only going to buy one. Buy the one you want. Your wife is a jewel.

[Jim Bell]

Take a look at the portable bosch. It is small but acts much bigger,

Jim

[Dev Emch]

First, nice dog picture.:D

Second, that is simple. If you like conventional tilt, buy a general 350. If you like left tilt, buy a general 650. If you like hardwood sliders, inquire about some new options they have. If you do mostly plywood cutting, then you may need to check out those euro sliders. If your into old iron, well that is another chapter of advice. But you implied you may be a bit space limited so a large format, old iron saw like an oliver 88 may not be a good idea at this time.

Have fun and let us know what you decide...

[Rob Will]

Steven,
Any chance you could install some wall cabinets or have a bench just high enough to roll a saw under for storage? A Delta Unisaw on a mobile base sure would be smooth and quiet. A set of saw horses and a half-sheet of plywood at the right height makes a good portable outfeed table. I would definitely use the 220V and go to a cabinet saw if you can. No motor sticking out the back like a lot of contractor saws. A once in a lifetime purchase and a true classic.

[Steven Shelby]

Firstly, thank you all for your thoughts and suggestions. I still have questions but at least have some answers to go along with them.

Scott and John: you're right! I am a very lucky man and my wife is a jewel!

I am not leaning any one direction at the moment. However it's down to either the Craftsman or one of several Griz options. Here are some of the things I need to consider as I come closer to making the call:
First and foremost, I am asking myself what the1023SL buys me in comparison to either the Craftsman saw or the 1023S110. If I read the websites correctly, we're looking at a $30 difference here between the 1023SL and the 1023S110. For that, I get an extra hp but need to call the electrician to run a 220. Well, I was planning on calling the electrician anyway to beef up the power in the shop. So we just add a 220 to his to-do list (I don't do electrical. At least not and feel safe about it). Is that the way to go? The comment that Jim and others have made that the 1023SL will be the last saw I buy is a great thjought. Can I fit it in the space I have? It looks like it's not much bigger than the 1023S. And I think it was mentioned that I can put it on a mobile base?

I guess the Craftsman is attractive because of the price and it seems to have the "fancy dancy" extras like the outfeed table and the miter fence, not to mention the price. But we all know that price and value are not the same thing. As my father used to tell me (his twist on an old saying) "The nasty stink of poor quality lasts far after the sweet aroma of low price has left town!" However, the Biesmeyer fance is hard to ignore.

On the other hand, any of the Griz options seem to be of the workhorse variety... smooth and strong, and will last forever.

The more I think about it, the more my head spins. Maybe you guys can help settle me down. Thanks, again, for your help!

[tod evans]

repeat; horsepower and castiron....02 tod

[Michael Gabbay]

Steven - If it were me.... I'd stick with a full fledged cabinet saw - 3hp. If you are concerned about cost then Grizzley, Bridgewood, or even Jet woul dbe on my short list. I personally like the Bridgewood over all of them. If you can bump your budget to $2000 then a General without a doubt would be my first choice.

Also keep an eye on the classifieds. I've seen some good saws in the New England area on sale lately.

my 2 cents....

[scott spencer]

Hi Steven - The Griz 1023S110 has a 2hp motor that draws 24 amps, which means it needs a 30 amp 110v circuit, which is not standard in most homes or shops, so it'd likely require the same amount of electrical work as a 220v line... in which case you might as well have the 220v installed and get the full 3hp saw. The S110 is a bit of an enigma to me, because I don't think it fits the niche that it appears intended to appeal to...unless I'm missing something.

At this point, depending on how much the electrical work runs, you might find that your budget quickly doubled. 220v is a good thing to have in the shop regardless, but is not essential. If you're bringing the electrician, I recommended it.

The 22124 is not as robust as the 1023S or 1023SL (or S110 for that matter), but is plenty for most home shops and will run on a standard 110v circuit or 220v. It has surprising power with the right blade and if aligned properly (the short serpentine belt has pretty good power transfer relative to the 4' v-belts of most contractor saws). Other than having an excellent blade that's rougly comparable to a good $40-$60 IMO, the "fancy dancy" extras on the 22124 would not be a selling point to me, but I have put them to use...the outfeed and extension table are part of my basic layout now. The basic features of the full cabinet and cabinet mounted trunnions ARE a selling point IMO... the 1023 includes them also, but in a more industrial strength.

There isn't much difference between the 1023S and SL other than right tilt/left tilt options as far as I know, and I think they occupy a similar size footprint. AFAIK, the 1023S does not include the motor cover, but the 1023SL does....I'm not positive though.

Let us know if we can help confuse you anymore! :D

[Frank Pellow]

Steven, I see that you did not comment on my suggestion to cut sheet goods with a Guided Circular Saw System rather than a table saw. I have a General 650 cabinet table saw and good outfeed rollers, but I never cut large sheets on it. If you go this route, you don't really need an expensive cabinet table saw (I say this even though I have one).

[Steven Shelby]

Steven, I see that you did not comment on my suggestion to cut sheet goods with a Guided Circular Saw System rather than a table saw. I have a General 650 cabinet table saw and good outfeed rollers, but I never cut large sheets on it. If you go this route, you don't really need an expensive cabinet table saw (I say this even though I have one).

Frank,
Although I didn't comment, your thoughts were not ignored. I often use a circular saw to cut large sheet goods and I'm pretty happy with the system. But I want the capability on a table saw to be consideration, albeit, not a major concern. Thank you for your imput!

Steven

[Dave Dionne]

Steven
I was in the same boat as far as a upgrade goes.
First if you need help in getting BT cutting decent until you upgrade shoot me an email and I will be glad to help, I have one of those also and have got it figured out pretty well.

Second I will follow the cast iron and horse power line. I bought a Jet exacta saw 3 horse extended rails and all I can say is WOW compared to the RYOBI. Don't get me wrong I loved my BT3000 but there really is no comparison in my book. I am cutting allot of 6/4 maple and walnut and it cuts like butter.

Good luck with your shopping and remember if you are going to buy local instead of mail order drive 60 minutes north and avoid the sales tax and invest the money you save in a good blade or two.

Dave

[Ron Jones near Indy]

I agree, the Griz is a fine saw. If you prefer a local dealer, check out Shop Fox. Very similiar to Griz with 2 year warranty and a few upgrades. Just a few more $. I really like mine.:D