Craftsman 22116 Tilt/Bevel Adjustment Issue

[Tim Fisher]

Wasn’t exactly sure where to post this, so please let me know if this question should be directed elsewhere!

I’ll try and keep this short and sweet and leave it to those of you with a bit more knowledge to ask the pointed questions I don’t know to ask myself.
Spent a lot of time growing up building things with my dad, just now getting to outfit my first garage (have one full side for workshop area). Decided I wanted to start out with a good compromise between full on cabinet saw and older used contractor, so I found an older used Craftsman 22116 in great shape – save for one small issue.

Older gentleman I bought it from disclosed up front that the tilt/bevel adjustment wheel was tight. He attributed it to tightening the trunnion bolts down too much when he had the top off to change arbor bearing. I asked him pointedly if he knew that’s what was wrong and if that was the only issue, and he said he was certain that was the only thing wrong and that I just needed to yank the top off and slightly adjust the bolts.

So I took the saw apart (which I actually enjoyed and found useful – good to know how everything works and is put together) and loosened the trunnion bolts. Loosened them too much though, and the trunnion slipped out of the bracket and gave me a bit of a scare. Managed to get the trunnion seated back in the brackets and the bolts tightened though and we’re all good now.

Anyway, so I’ve been examining the assembly for the tilt/bevel and I think it has something to do with the trunnion arm (not exactly sure what that part is called) not centering on the worm gear? I’ve done a bit of Googling and it seems this may be an issue that’s cropped up on the R4511s, the Ridgid brother to this saw (or so I’ve read).

So I’m not exactly sure where to go from here. Do I loosen bolts and try and maneuver entire assembly until the arm seats centered? I read somewhere about a small nut that may need to be adjusted to move the worm gear under the arm, as opposed to moving trunnion around to get arm centered. Maybe that’s the culprit?

This is my first time getting into the guts of a saw but I’m interested in learning and DIYing this fix if possible. I’ve attached some various pictures – please let me know what other information would be helpful, pictures, etc. Thanks!

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[Bruce Wrenn]

Looking at first picture, lead screw isn't centered on gear. If memory serves me correct, the hex nut on shaft is an eccentric nut. Turning it should center the shaft.

[Tim Fisher]

Thank you! So how do I go about adjusting the nut? Support the weight of the assembly while simply turning the nut? I’ve never adjusted an eccentric nut before, honesty no idea what it entails.

[Lee Schierer]

Since this saw is new to you, I would suggest that you locate a copy of the owner/parts manual for your saw. There should be several sites where you can obtain the manual. You will need the model number off the nameplate.

[Tim Fisher]

Lee - I actually have the original manual. I referenced it for the tear down, and read it when I got the saw for tips concerning adjustments and troubleshooting, but it didn’t have anything specific to a sticking/hard-to-turn bevel wheel.

If there’s something specific you think I should look for in the manual, let me know! It unfortunately doesn’t mention anything about the eccentric screw though.

[Lee Schierer]

If there’s something specific you think I should look for in the manual, let me know! It unfortunately doesn’t mention anything about the eccentric screw though.

It appears that the hex nut that shows up in your photos of the worm shaft may be an adjustment, can you post the complete model number of your saw so others can look at the parts explosion to determine if the centering of the worm shaft can be adjusted.

[Tim Fisher]

It appears that the hex nut that shows up in your photos of the worm shaft may be an adjustment, can you post the complete model number of your saw so others can look at the parts explosion to determine if the centering of the worm shaft can be adjusted.

Sure thing!

https://i.imgur.com/PpVqkRe.jpg

[Lee Schierer]

According to the manual Item #26 is an eccentric on the tilt shaft. You should be able to rotate this eccentric to get the worm centered on the gear. You will need to loosen the nut (item 12) on the shaft on the other side of the casting in order to rotate the eccentric. The hex nut on the shaft closest to the spacer and worm gear should rotate as it is part of the eccentric. Once you get the worm centered. Hold the eccentric in position with a wrench and then tighten the jamb nut with another wrench.

Once you get it working better, lubricate the shaft where it enters the eccentric and nut with oil and lube the gear with johnson paste wax. Do the same on the raise lower shaft.

Let us know how you make out.

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Your images no longer show up so I can't verify everything at this point. You normally should upload photos directly to SMC so they remain available forever.

[Tim Fisher]

Thanks Lee! Should all of the above be undertaken with trunnion brackets properly adjusted, bolts tightened, etc? Also - should I somehow be taking the force of the assembly's weight off the tilt shaft while I make the adjustments?

That's weird with the pictures. Before, when I viewed my own thread, all I saw in place of my pictures were the Imgur BBC links. So I inserted the direct links, and now I can see my pictures, but I can't for instance see your picture entitled "tilt.JPG"

When I click the hyperlink for your pic I get an Access Denied page.

What's the best method within the forum interface to upload pics, and which Imgur link should I use? I just defaulted to the BBC links because they mentioned "message boards and forums" beside that link style.

[Lee Schierer]

Thanks Lee! Should all of the above be undertaken with trunnion brackets properly adjusted, bolts tightened, etc? Also - should I somehow be taking the force of the assembly's weight off the tilt shaft while I make the adjustments?

That's weird with the pictures. Before, when I viewed my own thread, all I saw in place of my pictures were the Imgur BBC links. So I inserted the direct links, and now I can see my pictures, but I can't for instance see your picture entitled "tilt.JPG"

When I click the hyperlink for your pic I get an Access Denied page. Only contributors can see photos that are uploaded on SMC. Photos linked to other sites may or may not be there tomorrow.

What's the best method within the forum interface to upload pics, and which Imgur link should I use? I just defaulted to the BBC links because they mentioned "message boards and forums" beside that link style. In the screen for posting messages you will see a small picture frame in the tool bar. Simply click on the picture frame, browse to find the photo file and click on upload

There shouldn't be any weight on the worm. Just don't force things as you could break a casting.

Contributor status at SMC is a mere $6.00 per year and it lets you see all photos, send and get email or private messages to other contributors.

[Tim Fisher]

Thanks Lee - just contributed so I was able to see the schematic you posted. Perfect!

I'm now trying to edit my original post to upload my pictures, but my original post doesn't seem to have an "edit post" button anymore? Am I missing something?

[Lee Schierer]

Thanks Lee - just contributed so I was able to see the schematic you posted. Perfect!

I'm now trying to edit my original post to upload my pictures, but my original post doesn't seem to have an "edit post" button anymore? Am I missing something?

You can only edit your own posts within 24 hours of when they were started. For whatever reason your photos were back in your original post, so I uploaded them to the creek for you.

How did you make out with your saw?

[Tim Fisher]

You can only edit your own posts within 24 hours of when they were started. For whatever reason your photos were back in your original post, so I uploaded them to the creek for you.

How did you make out with your saw?

Thanks Lee - here are the pics from my first post:

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Concerning the saw, I haven't made the adjustment yet because I wanted to ask just a few more questions. I took a look at the schematic and the saw last night and THINK I have a good handle on what I need to do, but after the "oh sh*t" moment with the trunnion slipping out of the bracket I want to make sure I'm 10000% clear. This is my first time being in the guts of a saw so hesitant to cause any damage on my new-to-me first table saw.

Here are some pictures that showcase my questions and where I'm at in my understanding of this adjustment that needs to be made...

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[Tim Fisher]

Also - just to be certain, I don't need to worry about this interface between gear and worm shaft being a point of concern in terms of pressure/weight as I make the adjustment?

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[Lee Schierer]

Here are some pictures that showcase my questions and where I'm at in my understanding of this adjustment that needs to be made...

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Yes, all you are going to do is loosen the nut at the front and then rotate the nut at the back which will move the worm. Watch as you rotate the back nut so the gear moves in the direction needed to center it.


Also - just to be certain, I don't need to worry about this interface between gear and worm shaft being a point of concern in terms of pressure/weight as I make the adjustment?

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I would suggest turning the back nut counter clockwise as you look at it from where this photo was taken. The gear is being supported by the pivot up above so there should be little weight on the worm. Don't forget when you get the worm centered on the gear to hold the nut in the back while you securely tighten the nut in the front.

[Tim Fisher]

Yes, all you are going to do is loosen the nut at the front and then rotate the nut at the back which will move the worm.

I would suggest turning the back nut counter clockwise as you look at it from where this photo was taken.

Thanks Lee - so with the front nut, which direction loosens the nut? I was just out in the garage taking a crack at it, and I can't quite seem to get it loose. Not that it won't turn, just that either direction doesn't seem to be the right one to loosen. First time with eccentric nuts though, so maybe there's a trick to it? I went at it counterclockwise (from the perspective as seen below) and nothing really seemed to be happening. Other direction yielded similar results. The nut spins a bit, but never really seems to loosen to the point where it would be, say, "finger loose". Have the tilt wheel locked down and as close to 0 degrees tilt as possible.

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[Lee Schierer]

I suspect you may want to loosen the hand wheel lock down so you aren't fighting the lock as you try to rotate the shaft and that you are going to need to rotate the eccentric half at least 1/2 turn. The nut is probably a regular right hand thread, righty tighty- lefty loosey.

[Tim Fisher]

I suspect you may want to loosen the hand wheel lock down so you aren't fighting the lock as you try to rotate the shaft and that you are going to need to rotate the eccentric half at least 1/2 turn. The nut is probably a regular right hand thread, righty tighty- lefty loosey.

Got it Lee, thanks and will do. I assumed the old righty tighty lefty loosey too but I wasn't getting far with it. I was also working with a subpar adjustable wrench because I didn't have a standard wrench the correct size. Just ran out to hardware store for a 7/8" so looking forward to getting back under there tonight!

[Tim Fisher]

So managed to get it almost centered...took it for a few spins and it still had a pretty hard sticking point. After I played around with the tilt wheel a little, I took a picture and the worm gear had slid back out of alignment. I took a video too - it seems like the shaft itself might be bent?? I can see some sort of wobble/rotation as I turn the wheel. I tried to capture as best I could...

Not really sure where to go from here - would appreciate any advice ya'll might have.


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*Can't figure out how to get the video uploaded. I tried a Vimeo link but it doesn't show up after I insert the hyperlink. I really think the video would help with diagnosing the problem so open to suggestions. Also for some reason the pictures are rotated 45 degrees to the left when they don't appear that way in the folder on my laptop?*

[Lee Schierer]

I looked at a couple of replacement parts sites and none seem to have that shaft. You might be able to remove it and take it to a machine shop and see if they can straighten it. I would not attempt to straighten it in place. Have you tried lubricating the worm and bearing points to to reduce the friction?

[Tim Fisher]

No I haven’t lubricated anything but will try that this weekend. Could you possibly give me a little direction in uploading videos? I’d really like for you to take a peek at the video as I think it helps clarify things...if this is just a small problem I have to live with, then so be it. It only “catches” for maybe a third or less of the rotation of the handwheel. And I doubt I’ll be using the tilt adjustment an extraordinary amount...

At this point I’m trying to determine how far down the rabbit hole I go in repairing this issue. I’m also itching to get the saw up and running. But if I AM going to fix it, would rather do it now while it’s disassembled.

[Lee Schierer]

I can't help you with uploading videos. Maybe post your question on the tech support board.

I don't know how hard it would be to remove the shaft from the saw, but a decent machine shop with an arbor press could probably straighten the shaft. Just don't beat on it in place on the saw as you are likely to break a casting. A more detailed search of replacement part sites might produce a replacement shaft.

[Tim Fisher]

Can't thank you enough for all your help Lee. I'll scour the internet to see what I can find for replacement part, and find a few local machine shops to call. I'll also ask tech support about the video as I'd still like you to take a gander at that...

What are generally considered the most reputable replacement part sites?

[Mike Kees]

Tim ,pretty sure IF that shaft is bent,that it will be very easy to have it straightened on any hydraulic press. Pull it out and take it to a machine shop before you order parts.Wish you were down the street,I would bring some tools over and help you out.

[Tim Fisher]

Tim ,pretty sure IF that shaft is bent,that it will be very easy to have it straightened on any hydraulic press. Pull it out and take it to a machine shop before you order parts.Wish you were down the street,I would bring some tools over and help you out.

Guys - thanks so much for the help! Busy weekend but got the garage all cleaned up and now I'm just ready to get the saw working!

I've reuploaded my video to YouTube and hopefully we can all now see what I'm talking about.

When it comes to removing the shaft - how exactly would I go about doing that? It's not 100% clear from the schematic and the last thing I want to do is muck something up. But I've got a bead on a local machine shop so if the shaft removal is relatively easy, hoping I can get it removed and straightened this week.

Let me know if ya'll can see the below video too please!


https://youtu.be/87fkOIHNb0c

[Lee Schierer]

Guys - thanks so much for the help! Busy weekend but got the garage all cleaned up and now I'm just ready to get the saw working!

I've reuploaded my video to YouTube and hopefully we can all now see what I'm talking about.

When it comes to removing the shaft - how exactly would I go about doing that? It's not 100% clear from the schematic and the last thing I want to do is muck something up. But I've got a bead on a local machine shop so if the shaft removal is relatively easy, hoping I can get it removed and straightened this week.

Let me know if ya'll can see the below video too please!


https://youtu.be/87fkOIHNb0c

You can clearly see in the video that the jam nut is rotating with the shaft. The eccentric is rotating with the shaft. That should not be happening. Did you forget to retighten the jam nut after you got the worm centered on the gear? What happens if you hold the rear nut on the eccentric with a wrench while you turn the hand wheel?

P.S. If you post your approximate location there may be a member of SMC nearby that could give you a hand working on your saw.

[Tim Fisher]

You can clearly see in the video that the jam nut is rotating with the shaft. The eccentric is rotating with the shaft. That should not be happening. Did you forget to retighten the jam nut after you got the worm centered on the gear? What happens if you hold the rear nut on the eccentric with a wrench while you turn the hand wheel?

P.S. If you post your approximate location there may be a member of SMC nearby that could give you a hand working on your saw.

Thanks Lee. Had a work function until late last night and didn't get a chance to troubleshoot per your guidance. I will tonight though. Thought I tightened everything down but I'll go back through the motions and make sure all is tightened down securely, then try your troubleshooting suggestion re: holding nut while turning wheel.

Pardon the ignorance again, but what exactly is the "eccentric"? When I look at the schematic it looks like it's more than just a nut, like a small rod or something? The nut that I've been turning to align the gear, is that part of the eccentric? Google wasn't really helping me understand so thought I'd come right to the source.

I'm in Wendell, a suburb of Raleigh, NC. If there's anyone that's in the area that would want to swing by and give me a hand, that would be GREAT! Have plenty of beer/whiskey/pizza...

[Lee Schierer]

Pardon the ignorance again, but what exactly is the "eccentric"? When I look at the schematic it looks like it's more than just a nut, like a small rod or something? The nut that I've been turning to align the gear, is that part of the eccentric? Google wasn't really helping me understand so thought I'd come right to the source.

Here is what an eccentric similar to what you have in your saw looks like. Note that the through hole is off center to the tubular portion. Yours has threads on the small end so it can be locked in a certain orientation.
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[Tim Fisher]

Ok, so got around to realigning and retightening everything last night. Where I'm at now is - jam nut no longer rotates with hand wheel, but hand wheel is VERY difficult to turn, quite a bit of tension. Not sure if this is now related to trunnion bolts? Anyone near Raleigh, NC - I'd pay handsomely to have you come take a peek at this with me! Within reason of course :D

First video was prior to the realigning and retightening (not sure what that part was spinning), second video was after everything was aligned and tightened up.


https://youtu.be/SFnfyha7IL4

[Tim Fisher]

Second video (only one allowed per post)


https://youtu.be/T69_u7Oc6EE

[Bruce Wrenn]

Tim, there are several guys in the greater Raleigh Area that would help. Buy local, post for help under tools forum over at NCWW

[Tim Fisher]

Tim, there are several guys in the greater Raleigh Area that would help. Buy local, post for help under tools forum over at NCWW

Thanks Bruce, just replied to my posting over at NCWW. I didn't create an additional "Help me" post yet as I'm hoping to get some feedback in the first thread I created. But if you think I should create another one, let me know!

[Lee Schierer]

Put some lube such as paste wax on the gear teeth and worm. It still appears that your shaft is bent. Some oil on the shaft where it enters the bushing would help.

[Tim Fisher]

Put some lube such as paste wax on the gear teeth and worm. It still appears that your shaft is bent. Some oil on the shaft where it enters the bushing would help.

Roger that Lee, I'll do that here this week. Need to go get some paste wax...

Since I'm not going to allow myself to put it back together knowing there's still a problem, how difficult is removing the shaft? Anything I should watch out for? Is it a one-man job? I found a machine shop so I'm eager to get the problem fixed - just don't want to create a new one in the process.

[Lee Schierer]

Roger that Lee, I'll do that here this week. Need to go get some paste wax...

Since I'm not going to allow myself to put it back together knowing there's still a problem, how difficult is removing the shaft? Anything I should watch out for? Is it a one-man job? I found a machine shop so I'm eager to get the problem fixed - just don't want to create a new one in the process.

It appears that you will need to remove the hand wheel and loosen the locking collars. It will have to be rotated to "unscrew the worm from the gear while the aft moves away from the casting, presumably out the back of the saw.

A few things I noted after watching your videos again:
The bushing you were spinning with you finger should be very close to the casting with just a few thousandths of an inch clearance.
There is a locking collar on the front that you will need to loosen and then pull on the hand wheel like you want to pull it out of the frame while you slide the locking collar close to the eccentric locking nut. This will reduce the dead zone between raising and lowering.
You may need to compromise on the centering of the worm on the gear to get easier play when you turn the hand wheel.

[Tim Fisher]

Thanks all for your help and suggestions! Been crazy busy over here between organizing/throwing a bday party for my better half and prepping for a two week vacation to Thailand that we leave for tomorrow. Looking to get this issue knocked out as soon as I get back! Have a few guys that have offered to come take a look with me (can't thank you enough for that!) so between that and my forum responses, hope to be up and running soon. Looking forward to it! Will keep everyone posted once I get back.