Let's Get This (Slider) Party Started

[Mark Hockenberg]

I'm about ready to retire my Unisaw and move up to a slider. I welcome your advise.

Here are my requirements/constraints/questions:
- I'm located in the Denver area.
- Thinking about SCM and Felder. I suppose these are the default choices. What else should I look at?
- I frequently work with 4' x 8' sheet goods. My understanding is that a 9' - 10' slider is best to accommodate 8 foot sheets. I have the space for either length. What length is ideal?
- My shop door opening is small at 32". The Felder K500S should fit through as the width of the main machine is 759mm. Not sure about SCM or others yet.
- Since most work is the the left of the blade, and I almost never use the 48" capacity on my cabinet saw, will I regret getting a slider with a 31" rip capacity?

Thanks in advance
Cheers,
Mark

[Erik Loza]

Well, I can’t really give you an impartial answer except to say that the K500S is a GREAT entry-level professional slider. The 9’ slider and 48” rip capacity are standard for the US market. I guess you could order with 31” rip capacity but there would probably little to no price difference. Most of the shops I go into, you will see a stack of offcuts, a cutlist, and yeti mug or coffee cup on that side of the saw. So, people find a use for it. Hope this helps,

Erik

[Bill Dufour]

I would suggest cutting the wall and framing in at least 36 inch door. Maybe even a french door. Tell the keepper of the purse it will improve energy efficiancy with a new well insulated door.
Bill D

[John P Clark]

Mark

i have a felder k700 and it is a great saw - do you have three phase or single phase? I would get in touch with Kevin Slaugh from Felder - if you want to see a saw and cut something, let me know, I am in Brighton. I do not thing you could go wrong with either saw, but I am slanted towards Felder

John

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, since you feel you have a need for an 8 foot straight line capacity, go for it.

I have a 49 inch capacity straight line and it's perfect for me as I make solid wood furniture.

I also have no use for a 49 inch rip capacity on a slider, to me it's a waste of shop space.

You'll love having a slider, my one comment is that if you wish to use dado capability, you'll need an overarm blade guard. I had to add that to mine...........Regards, Rod.

[Dave Cav]

I went from a vintage Delta 12/14" cabinet saw and a Powermatic 65 10" cabinet saw to a Minimax (SCM) SC4E, which is their basic 8.5 foot slider. I kept the Powermatic and installed it in the "outfeed" position of the slider and use it for smaller joinery work. I very seldom use plywood as I mostly build furniture from solid, but after having used the saw for about six months there isn't any way I would go back. Sam Blasco, one of the Minimax sales reps, has a good Youtube channel with lots of slider info. Another Youtuber, Extreme Woodworker, has a number of slider videos and although he uses a Felder, most of it is applicable to any sliding table saw.

The Minimax probably won't fit through a 32" door. I brought mine in through a 10 foot garage door with a pallet jack and it was still a fussy job.

[Mark Hockenberg]

Mark

i have a felder k700 and it is a great saw - do you have three phase or single phase? I would get in touch with Kevin Slaugh from Felder - if you want to see a saw and cut something, let me know, I am in Brighton. I do not thing you could go wrong with either saw, but I am slanted towards Felder

John


Thanks a lot for the offer, John. I may take you up on a visit. I would much prefer a K700 over the 500, but as mentioned the shop entrance is a constraint for now. I have single phase, so I'll stick with that.

[Mark e Kessler]

Rod, why do you need the overhead guard with a dado? UK requirement?

Mark K



Hi, since you feel you have a need for an 8 foot straight line capacity, go for it.

I have a 49 inch capacity straight line and it's perfect for me as I make solid wood furniture.

I also have no use for a 49 inch rip capacity on a slider, to me it's a waste of shop space.

You'll love having a slider, my one comment is that if you wish to use dado capability, you'll need an overarm blade guard. I had to add that to mine...........Regards, Rod.

[Mark e Kessler]

Is this for Hobby or Biz? If Biz 9’ min 10’ if you can, if felder min 700 series and I haven’t had my hands on a 900 series but If I was still in biz I would want a stronger build. i had an SCM for years and never had an issue, again if in business today I would be looking for a used Altendorf, Martin, scm there are others...

If hobby and you have no professional/commercial background then I suppose anything from a grizzly, hammer or felder k500 will do to keep cost down


I'm about ready to retire my Unisaw and move up to a slider. I welcome your advise.

Here are my requirements/constraints/questions:
- I'm located in the Denver area.
- Thinking about SCM and Felder. I suppose these are the default choices. What else should I look at?
- I frequently work with 4' x 8' sheet goods. My understanding is that a 9' - 10' slider is best to accommodate 8 foot sheets. I have the space for either length. What length is ideal?
- My shop door opening is small at 32". The Felder K500S should fit through as the width of the main machine is 759mm. Not sure about SCM or others yet.
- Since most work is the the left of the blade, and I almost never use the 48" capacity on my cabinet saw, will I regret getting a slider with a 31" rip capacity?

Thanks in advance
Cheers,
Mark

[Rod Sheridan]

Rod, why do you need the overhead guard with a dado? UK requirement?

Mark K

Hi Mark, I'm actually in Canada.

The standard guard is splitter mounted so it can't be used for a non through cut.

I put a modified overarm guard on mine as per the photograph....Rod.

423898

[Mark e Kessler]

Oops, sorry... right forgot about the splitter mounted guard, I have the over head...

Mark



Hi Mark, I'm actually in Canada.

The standard guard is splitter mounted so it can't be used for a non through cut.

I put a modified overarm guard on mine as per the photograph....Rod.

423898

[Erik Loza]

Mark, not sure I agree. There are two shops in my area with K500's. One in my neighborhood, in fact. That customer bought his about a year ago. The others are the second owners (they bought it, used) and that machine is about 6-7 years old. Zero issues with either. In fact, both guys love them. I think it's easy to say "if you are a pro shop, you must have this beefy thing", and do I sell a lot of beefy sliders, too, but try to remind myself that for the one-man shop doing a kitchen or so a month, something like a K500S puts them light years ahead of a standard cabinet saw and also makes a lot of sense from cost/benefit standpoint. Just my experience. Pic of 7-year old machine for proof.
423901

Erik

[Mark Hockenberg]

Is this for Hobby or Biz? If Biz 9’ min 10’ if you can, if felder min 700 series and I haven’t had my hands on a 900 series but If I was still in biz I would want a stronger build. i had an SCM for years and never had an issue, again if in business today I would be looking for a used Altendorf, Martin, scm there are others...

If hobby and you have no professional/commercial background then I suppose anything from a grizzly, hammer or felder k500 will do to keep cost down




Mark - Technically hobby. BUT, I come from owning a commercial shop and my experience is with a big SCMI slider, Streibig panel saw, Biesse Rover, etc.. I'm used to getting commercial quality cuts on sheet goods and solids. This is why I mentioned a 9'+ slider at the start. I'm not willing to give up on quality to save dollars. At the same time I don't think I need a new Martin/Altendorf, etc. and don't have the space to get one in anyway.

[Patrick Kane]

Did they change the chassis of the 700? My 2004-2006 KF700 fit through a 33” door. Like the other guy suggested, I am very strongly considering cutting out a much larger opening. Getting the saw through that opening wasnt awful, because the pallet jack opening is in the front. However, disassembling the optional overhead guard and fence and extension Table are kind of a PITA.

If this is for business, I kinda agree with Mark. I know diddly about machines compared to others around here, but my vintage of felder 700 is a fine enough machine. I am very tender with it. I use it almost exclusively for small to medium sized furniture parts. I’ve done a few medium sized island/table tops on the saw. The outrigger doesn’t instill a ton of confidence with larger and heavier workpieces. It moves and wiggles when you put modest weight on it.

[Mark Hockenberg]

Patrick - Current K700 schematic shows a chassis width of 940mm (37"). So that's why I'm challenged on the shop door. I'd love to build a new shop building but that adds six figures to the saw price :)

[Kevin Jenness]

If you have room, get a 10' stroke, you won't regret it as you will be able to straighten and rip 10' solid stock w/o removing the crosscut fence. For sheet goods I would go with the 48" rip width.Suppose you need two 48" crosscuts out of an 8' sheet- if the blade is less than 48" off the wall you won't be able to do it. I would be looking for a used saw and not afraid to add a phase converter, but that's me. Your entry door is quite limiting, not just for getting a new machine in.

[Jim Becker]

I agree with the 9-10' stroke for sure since you stated goal is processing sheet goods. I have an 8'6" wagon and while i "can" rip sheet stock on it, things are really tight for a full stroke with the scoring blade engaged. Mine is SCM/Minimax which I'm extremely happy with, but I'd surely be enamored with Felder, too. Great equipment.

I honestly do agree with the suggestion to perhaps update your door situation; not just for getting a new machine in there, but it will make things a LOT easer for loading/unloading material and finished products, too. It also makes for nice ventilation during temperate times of the year. My setup is a double, outward opening insulated steel door setup which is effectively 72" wide. These are in a space that was originally a garage type door which I trashed many years ago.

[Mark e Kessler]

Erik,

That's fine - the k500 will work for some folks for sure, when I quoted the k500 and the k700 there wasn't a huge dollar difference and I wasn't willing to live with the Hammer internals and I think a few other things for that amount of money. For me it was either Hammer or k700 at the time. But that's me willing to spend a few thousand more as at the time it would have been at the time the last saw I would buy so not a lot of dollars over 25-30 years, I think some forget to think this way when purchasing a piece of equipment like this... .




Mark, not sure I agree. There are two shops in my area with K500's. One in my neighborhood, in fact. That customer bought his about a year ago. The others are the second owners (they bought it, used) and that machine is about 6-7 years old. Zero issues with either. In fact, both guys love them. I think it's easy to say "if you are a pro shop, you must have this beefy thing", and do I sell a lot of beefy sliders, too, but try to remind myself that for the one-man shop doing a kitchen or so a month, something like a K500S puts them light years ahead of a standard cabinet saw and also makes a lot of sense from cost/benefit standpoint. Just my experience. Pic of 7-year old machine for proof.
423901

Erik

[Mark e Kessler]

Go look at them for yourself, I would bet the Hammer and k500 will not meet your expectations. The k700s is a good compromise but I am disappointing I didn't get a quote on the 900 series.

I find the 9' is enough with clamping but I only do 10- 20 sheets of ply a year, with a clamp in the rear position it's a little tight I don't even use the clamps on full sheets. yes Air clamps are over kill, never needed or clamped anything on a slider but now that I have them couldn't live without them for the smaller and tricky cuts.

FWIW - I am not saying that the Hammer or K500 isn't a good value and won't work, I just know where you are coming from (even though I don't know you- duh) I think the same would be true for the lower end SCM's as well.




Mark - Technically hobby. BUT, I come from owning a commercial shop and my experience is with a big SCMI slider, Streibig panel saw, Biesse Rover, etc.. I'm used to getting commercial quality cuts on sheet goods and solids. This is why I mentioned a 9'+ slider at the start. I'm not willing to give up on quality to save dollars. At the same time I don't think I need a new Martin/Altendorf, etc. and don't have the space to get one in anyway.

[Mark e Kessler]

Mark H,

If you are looking at 8' or longer slide than you will be looking at the "S" so K700s for example, technically you can put the 8' on a non "S" but i was told it was not recommended due to potential tipping when loaded heavy

Here the layout drawing to the K700s

Mark K

423933




Patrick - Current K700 schematic shows a chassis width of 940mm (37"). So that's why I'm challenged on the shop door. I'd love to build a new shop building but that adds six figures to the saw price :)

[Mark e Kessler]

Get the 48", I rarely need it but you can butt up against a wall and put a bandsaw or other things to utilize the space, you won't really loose any space. I don't think its even an upcharge, if you decide you want the 31" you would just need to remove the table and modify it (it's one piece now, used to be 2 - if you have the overarm guard it can be installed in both locations without modifications.

"- Since most work is the the left of the blade, and I almost never use the 48" capacity on my cabinet saw, will I regret getting a slider with a 31" rip capacity?"



I'm about ready to retire my Unisaw and move up to a slider. I welcome your advise.

Here are my requirements/constraints/questions:
- I'm located in the Denver area.
- Thinking about SCM and Felder. I suppose these are the default choices. What else should I look at?
- I frequently work with 4' x 8' sheet goods. My understanding is that a 9' - 10' slider is best to accommodate 8 foot sheets. I have the space for either length. What length is ideal?
- My shop door opening is small at 32". The Felder K500S should fit through as the width of the main machine is 759mm. Not sure about SCM or others yet.
- Since most work is the the left of the blade, and I almost never use the 48" capacity on my cabinet saw, will I regret getting a slider with a 31" rip capacity?

Thanks in advance
Cheers,
Mark

[Mark Bolton]

I wouldnt go for the short rip unless your space limited. I cant count the times I've been cross cutting 12' material with 8' on the wagon. A ton of times using the fence as an outboard stop for wide cuts/off cuts.

[Dave Cav]

I wouldnt go for the short rip unless your space limited. I cant count the times I've been cross cutting 12' material with 8' on the wagon. A ton of times using the fence as an outboard stop for wide cuts/off cuts.

I agree. Since I got the slider I retired the RAS and don't have a SCMS, so I break stock down on the slider. When crosscutting an 8 or 10 foot piece of lumber the support on the right/outboard side is nice, and I've used the fence for an outboard stop, too. I even made a short fence so I didn't have to pull 3/4 of the fence back to clear the front of the blade.

[David Zaret]

i agree with the "get the 10' if you can fit it" - it's common that i find myself needing to straight-line lumber longer than 8'.

why not consider the entry level Martin machine?

[johnny means]

If your accustomed to Striebig and Martin level machinery, the "entry level" class of machinery tends to feel dinky.

[David Zaret]

well, i have a Martin T60, and it most definitely doesn't feel dinky.

[Peter Kelly]

I would suggest cutting the wall and framing in at least 36 inch door. Maybe even a french door. Tell the keepper of the purse it will improve energy efficiancy with a new well insulated door.
Bill DI agree. Even though that Felder K500 is 2" narrower than the existing opening, it weighs more than 1,300 lbs and will likely be a massive PIA to wrestle through that door. A 36" or larger would make things considerably easier.

[Patrick Walsh]

I’d also cut the door opening. Easy as can be.

I’d really consider used. A old Scmi the green years David Kum will maybe chime in on exact models or a used Martin I’d say Also 80’s ish T72....

I have seen both for sale recently for much less money than new. Like 1/3 of new in great condition and you will have a way nicer machine without all kinds of electronic stuff to worry about.

Or I’d go no lower than the Martin T-60c. Surely the T60 is not rinky dinky but by comparison to a older Martin 72-73-75 it is. But not compared to new scmi Or Felder the Martin T-60 will be like a Mazda to 5 series BMW. Entry level Scmi and Felder are like tin cans by comparison.

Recently and local to me there was a t72 in great shape selling for $3500. If I didn’t already have a slider I would have purchased it. Almost did and put it into storage For when I have more space.

If I was gong to buy anything entry level it would be a Griggrio if they are still in business. They used to make a entry level machine for Martin that was re badged and sold just under the T-60. I’d never pay for the Martin branded one but if the Martin was to expensive for me and new was important Griggrio would win hands down without question.

Also bar none get the 52 rip fence. It becomes a bump stop and a integral way of at least how I use a slider. And if you have the room get 10hp’ sliding table anything less will become annoying. The first time you can’t do something on your “new very expensive space hog toy” you will surely be bummed out.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I'm about ready to retire my Unisaw and move up to a slider. I welcome your advise.

Here are my requirements/constraints/questions:
- I'm located in the Denver area.
- Thinking about SCM and Felder. I suppose these are the default choices. What else should I look at?
- I frequently work with 4' x 8' sheet goods. My understanding is that a 9' - 10' slider is best to accommodate 8 foot sheets. I have the space for either length. What length is ideal?
- My shop door opening is small at 32". The Felder K500S should fit through as the width of the main machine is 759mm. Not sure about SCM or others yet.
- Since most work is the the left of the blade, and I almost never use the 48" capacity on my cabinet saw, will I regret getting a slider with a 31" rip capacity?

Thanks in advance
Cheers,
Mark

Only thing to add is that with my CF741 I'd use the wider rip a lot. Because its a combo machine, the jointer is the right side, I get an effective rip of around 32". It's perfectly adequate to process, BUT when you want to crosscut something like a 10' long board to 6' on the slider, you have a 4' cut off to the right. That means the rip fence has to come off because there isn't enough room to just park it to the right further. It'd be a faster process without having take the fence on and off, so I end up using a chop saw to. That's also less than ideal because it's another station to move stock to and from.

Most of the stock I get comes in at 10', so a 60" rip plus a little for the fence head would be required to cover the range of possibility. That's just silly though, so I'll deal with it. The sliders other pro's far outweigh this one con.

My less than perfect solution is to batch process the long crosscuts to minimize the fence removal. Sometimes my feeble old mind misses something though and I end up making an extra step or 5.

[scott vroom]

A 42" wide insulated steel pre-hung door is under $500, and if you have any carpentry skills installation is not difficult.

[scott vroom]

If hobby and you have no professional/commercial background then I suppose anything from a grizzly, hammer or felder k500 will do to keep cost down

I had to chuckle reading this...I upgraded from a Grizzly to a Hammer and they are definitely not in the same class....not even close.

[Mark e Kessler]

I really would have no idea, I kinda made that statement assuming someone would chime in...

MK


I had to chuckle reading this...I upgraded from a Grizzly to a Hammer and they are definitely not in the same class....not even close.

[Patrick Kane]

I’d also cut the door opening. Easy as can be.

I’d really consider used. A old Scmi the green years David Kum will maybe chime in on exact models or a used Martin I’d say Also 80’s ish T72

Recently and local to me there was a t72 in great shape selling for $3500. If I didn’t already have a slider I would have purchased it. Almost did and put it into storage For when I have more space..

Funny you mention that machine. I saw that one along with probably 3-4 others across the country that I thought were “inexpensive”. The one in Cali had shot DRO on the rip fence, but the saw was $2500 out of a one man shop. Another one down in Georgia or Tennessee was under $3000. That one near you for $3500, and there was another one in there under $4000. Maybe Long Island. I’m not really in the market for another machine right now, but I’d love to have a 10’+ dedicated saw one day. Are the 71 and 72 solid machines? The hydraulic controls are kinda cool. Not sure if that is ideal for setting an unusual bevel, but I haven’t used it, so what do I know? The hydraulic blade height is definitely cool. Not much on the internet about those two models. Seems more people have things to say about the 17 and 75 than the aluminum extrusion table 71 and 72.

[Kevin Jenness]

Patrick, I used a T71 for a number of years- it was a great saw. "Solid"? Well, yeah, it's a Martin. Different from the cast iron machines of the previous era but not in a bad way. The hydraulic controls may be a weak point as I was told by Edward Papa at Symantech that Martin was no longer stocking parts for the pump, but they were very convenient. You could pump the arbor all the way vertically or from 45 back to zero with about ten strokes, small pumps would get you very small increments (like 1/10 degree) and you could drop the spinning blade below the table in a couple of seconds. It made panel cutouts easy too as you could hold the panel with both hands while raising and lowering the blade with the pedal.

That saw got replaced with a T60-C as the shop got nervous about its age, but I guarantee you that the dealer rebuilt it and it will last another 30 years if taken care of. No electronics to crap out. The only thing I prefer on the new saw is the rip fence adjustment, lock and DRO left of the blade.

The thread got kind of hijacked as I don't think the OP is really in the market for one of these beasts. I will say I operate a used Paoloni 260 as it fits my shop layout (tight) and my budget, probably on a par with lower end Felder. It's a step down, but I can do pretty much the same work as on a Martin as long as I pay attention to the settings. A Martin is built to take the abuse of commercial shops without babying.

[johnny means]

well, i have a Martin T60, and it most definitely doesn't feel dinky.

I think you misread my statement.

[Patrick Walsh]

I was told the same about the rise and fall.

However after my t75 restoration my opinion is as follows.

Anything can be fixed that’s mechanical if your motivated. And I’m pretty sure in most cases more easily and for less than the complicated cnc machines today. Even a machine with electronic rise fall and tilt of the blade has a giant maze of electrical stuff going on. Electronics have a shelf life, at some point they will fail, will no longer be supported with replacement parts and actually render a machine usless.

A mechanical part of any sort can be replicated and replaced by the motivated and for much les than the cost of one of these modern machines riddled with electronics.

That’s just my believe system and what suits me and my needs. I was once smitten by the idea of electronic everything. For me that time was before I had much experience actually operating Woodworking machines. Now with a good amount of experience under my belt it see it’s applicable applications but in my opinion it’s more of a liability to a small and or hobby shop than a asset. Again that’s just my beliefs and what I have found suit me.

I also like big and for me feel big is better. Others value the open space more. It’s all comes down to perspective like anything.

Patrick, I used a T71 for a number of years- it was a great saw. "Solid"? Well, yeah, it's a Martin. Different from the cast iron machines of the previous era but not in a bad way. The hydraulic controls may be a weak point as I was told by Edward Papa at Symantech that Martin was no longer stocking parts for the pump, but they were very convenient. You could pump the arbor all the way vertically or from 45 back to zero with about ten strokes, small pumps would get you very small increments (like 1/10 degree) and you could drop the spinning blade below the table in a couple of seconds. It made panel cutouts easy too as you could hold the panel with both hands while raising and lowering the blade with the pedal.

That saw got replaced with a T60-C as the shop got nervous about its age, but I guarantee you that the dealer rebuilt it and it will last another 30 years if taken care of. No electronics to crap out. The only thing I prefer on the new saw is the rip fence adjustment, lock and DRO left of the blade.

The thread got kind of hijacked as I don't think the OP is really in the market for one of these beasts. I will say I operate a used Paoloni 260 as it fits my shop layout (tight) and my budget, probably on a par with lower end Felder. It's a step down, but I can do pretty much the same work as on a Martin as long as I pay attention to the settings. A Martin is built to take the abuse of commercial shops without babying.

[Matthew Hills]

...you will see a stack of offcuts, a cutlist, and yeti mug or coffee cup on ...

Made me smile.