How would you install this vanity?

[Günter VögelBerg]

i have been asked to build a vanity similar to the one pictured here, but the bottom shelf will extend all the way to the right wall. I have studs 16 inches OC on the back wall. How would you recommend mounting this? Is there commercial hardware I can use?
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[Paul F Franklin]

Günter, there are quite a variety of commercial brackets you could use. A search for floating shelf brackets will find you a few styles. You could also use the hidden brackets used for floating countertops (search for floating countertop brackets). The latter tend to be beefier since they are made to support granite countertops, but usually require some access to the framing in the wall.

I have used the floating shelf brackets that consist of a long metal bar that gets fastened to every stud in the wall and then has tubes extending outward that get embedded in the shelving.

Some folks just bore 1/2 holes into the studs and insert steel rods that get embedded in the shelf. I don't like to do that in a bathroom because if you miss hitting the stud right on center you risk hitting plumbing. Plus the framing in bathroom wet walls has often been compromised already by the plumber drilling holes and cutting notches for the plumbing, and I don't like to risk weakening it further.

[Mark Daily]

How big will this be? Any idea what it will weigh? How many studs will you have behind it? Do you have access to the framing?

Like Paul said there are many floating shelf brackets available but most are made for lightweight shelf’s, not a heavy vanity. The countertop version he mentions sounds to me like the best option.

[Günter VögelBerg]

about 6 feet long. This is new construction so I may have access to the wall. On the far right I can mount both the top and bottom to the right wall. The far left will be floating. The end will be dovetailed to the top and bottom. It will be made of 8/4 ash, so it will be heavy.

[Mark Hockenberg]

It would be slightly visible, but I can picture a cleat made of the same ash. Run it the entire length from the left end to the wall and along the right end, front to back. Bolt it to the wall with lags and plug the holes. Then set the vanity on it and run screws from the bottom up - angle these to draw the vanity tight to the wall.

[Bill Dufour]

If you have the wall open consider adding a stud or fireblocks where needed. The fire blocks can be turned on the side for bigger targets. I used 2x6 around the bathtub.
Bill D

[Jamie Buxton]

There’s no need for special hardware. A few wood screws will hold it. Under each horizontal part, I’d glue a piece of wood at the rear which is 3/4” square or so, and the length of the part. At install, I’d locate each stud, and run a screw through the flange into each one. To see those screw heads, somebody will have to be sitting on the floor peering inside. They’ll also be looking at plumbing entrails, so a screw head or two won’t matter. If you’re really concerned about it, use pocket screws.

Be sure to tell the rough plumber where you need the plumbing to come out of the wall.

[Jamie Buxton]

To be clear, floating shelf brackets are needed when you’re trying to hang a shelf that might be only 2” tall by 12” or more front-to-back. In that 2” there’s not much leverage to prevent the front edge of the shelf from drooping if you load it. The pictured shelf has plenty of height , so it has plenty of leverage to hold up the front edge under load.

The pictured shelf is more related to the upper cabinets in a kitchen. Those are routinely fastened with just a few screws along the top edge.

[Bill Carey]

There’s no need for special hardware. A few wood screws will hold it. Under each horizontal part, I’d glue a piece of wood at the rear which is 3/4” square or so, and the length of the part. At install, I’d locate each stud, and run a screw through the flange into each one. To see those screw heads, somebody will have to be sitting on the floor peering inside. They’ll also be looking at plumbing entrails, so a screw head or two won’t matter. If you’re really concerned about it, use pocket screws.

Be sure to tell the rough plumber where you need the plumbing to come out of the wall.


2nd this. And if you won't ever be the one to remove it, you could plug the holes, then sand and finish them.

[Jim Becker]

I'd probably consider using "hidden" shelf/mantle brackets for something like that.

[Charlie Velasquez]

Pocket screws from the bottom at each stud on both shelves.

2x blocking on edge if you still have access to framing then 12” oc , if not no big deal, 16” centers should be adequate.

[Lee Schierer]

I would locate the studs in the wall behind and on the right side. I would make pocket hole type hole so they come out of the back edge about 1/2" from the top surface, leaving plenty of wood between the point where the screw head will be flush with the bottom surface. Then anchor the vanity to the wall with 6" or 8" Timberloc screws (depending upon the angle of the screws and the total thickness of the wall,) one into each stud. Do the same with the lower shelf. These screws have a tensile strength of 1950 pounds, so the wood will fail before the screws will.
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[Bob Coates]

Second Lee method, but with 2 x 6 as blocking between studs.
Bob

[Al Launier]

French cleat.

[johnny means]

I would anchor angle iron to the wall and hide it within the shelf and countertop.

[Matt Day]

I like Johnny’s method. Beefier the better. Consider that #1, the weight of this thing is likely going to be pretty heavy to begin with. And #2, consider a 200 pound person sitting on the countertop and how much leverage that will create. Because if you’re building this for a customer you have to take into account that things like that might happen and if the anchoring system fails you’ve got flood situation.

[Mark Daily]

I talked to my nephew, a mechanical engineer, for his thoughts. He said too many unknowns to be sure but consider the weight of the wood alone will be around 120 lbs., estimating 32 BF @ 3.58 lbs/BF for ash.

To be truly floating with no visible attachment points, a stud directly behind the left and right sides would almost be necessary with at least 2 more between each end.

Mount using 1/2” threaded metal rod (like all-thread)inserted completely into stud and epoxy in place. Threading the hole and screwing the rod into place with epoxy is preferred. The other end would penetrate the vanity as deeply as possible, 1’ preferred and be epoxied in place at time of install.

The vanity holes would be oversized to accommodate epoxy.

As long as the vanity can’t pull away from wall, most of the stress is directed straight down and relies on the shear strength of the metal rod
You wouldn’t be able or need to attach it to the right side wall with this method.

[Mark Gibney]

I like Johnny Means' idea best. The epoxied 1/2" steel rods Mark suggests appeals to me too and I think they'd work, but what if you ever wanted to remove the vanity temporarily in the future?

When I worked in construction / remodeling we always had to pose the question of will this stand up with two adults dancing on top of it. I just would not trust pocket screws in this situation, especially going into such a soft wood as doug fir. The studs behind plumbing fixtures seem to be the most degraded of anywhere in a house when your demolishing.
And I would add blocking between the studs to anchor that angle iron too.

[Patrick Walsh]

I’d go with something like this.

Cut into the rock. Screw directly to a stud then patch. I would alter them to accept some kind of set screw or screws so the whole thing actually has a chance of staying on the wall but can also be removed.

Beauty of the set screw very construction adhesive is it’s reversible. All you gotta do is take the thing off dig out the joint compound, remove the brackets and patch over the small holes.

I’ve used them a few times with floating shelf’s and just set the bars for a pressure fit. Works pretty well but not great. I’d like the liquid nailed on but then your stuck literally.

https://www.amazon.com/Black-Solid-Floating-Bracket-Supports/dp/B07S9L87JL/ref=asc_df_B07S9L87JL/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=366016919681&hvpos=1o4&hvnetw=g&hvrand=10453370435098902791&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9001873&hvtargid=aud-799711277694:pla-813127776676&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=80266838550&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=366016919681&hvpos=1o4&hvnetw=g&hvrand=10453370435098902791&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9001873&hvtargid=aud-799711277694:pla-813127776676

[Dave Sabo]

I'm sorry, but some of tHe answers here are comical at best. I wouldn't attempt any of them except the steel rod into studs suggestIon. The rest are guaranteed failures fairly soon after install.

Pocket screws wont cut it, even if they are super duty timber screws. L- channel by itself won't cut it. The front edge of the top will sag under its own weight. Think you already know what will happen next when someone leans on it.

These assemblies need to couner forces in compression and tension.

Order these brackets in the appropriate size , one per stud and be sure to have a pair suppoRting just the sink area. Add a stud if you need too. I'm sure you can easily figure out how to build the top to slide onto the brackets. You'll need a row for the counter and the lower shelf, so they may need to be special ordered as one assembly to meet you height design.

https://www.aandmhardware.com/concealed-flats.php

[Ben Abate]

First of all I always consider the person that has to follow me when the time come for a repair or to remove an item. I’ve had to follow up too many butchers in my day that figured they would never see this job again. Remember it’s what people do when no one is watch that is a measure of your work.

I just finished a bath that I had to float a large granite top and sink. Total weight was approximately 165 lbs. I took down the dry wall and welded up two brackets to be hung from the studs. I doubled up the studs and bolted the brackets to them with long lag bolts. Then installed and finished the drywall. I supported the left side with a piece of angle iron. I allowed for the cantilevered weight by hanging the brackets 1/8” high in the front so when the weight was applied it would deflect to level, it worked out perfectly

i apologize for the pictures not being positioned correctly. I loaded and reloaded the 4 times and they keep coming out turned 90 degrees

ben.

[Bill Jobe]

My wife wanted about a 6' section of an old reclaimed beam about 7" x 7"
I drilled holes at an angle into the studs. Then I drilled oversize holes, at the same angle in the beam.
I think I used around 8 or 10° angles. Then I cut pieces of 1/2" threaded rod.
Dropped the rods in the holes in the studs.
It took us both to boost it up where she wanted it, nearly 6', and it slid down nice and firm against the wall. It is solid as a rock.
I know because I hung from it after the beam was up. At the time, about 235.

[Dave Sabo]

Ben has it right. :)

Bill, rods or fingers will work fine for something that doesn't project from the wall very far. Say 7". But a countertop that's 21"-25" from the wall has lots more forces to engineer for.

[Patrick Walsh]

I personally would have rod brackets fabricated by a metal worker/welder.

And on that design quite a few, that lower box will also need structural support long term imop in the form of metal rod brackets.

Anything less is just foolish.

The point made that the top could sag under the weight of the sink mist also be considered and the solution suggested to flank the sink with a rod making perfect sense.

I’d have one i from the left and right. One on either side of the sink. On on each bottom edge of the bottom box, and one on the top right corner of the box.

In doing so you will probably have to rip the wall open and out in fire blocking exactly where you need it. I’d double up the 2x material where you need it and sheets between bays just for the sake of it then rick back over everything tape,mud and paint.

If that’s to much for the client I’d pass on the job or suggested a more traditional vanity that sits on the floor.

[Mark Daily]

I like Johnny Means' idea best. The epoxied 1/2" steel rods Mark suggests appeals to me too and I think they'd work, but what if you ever wanted to remove the vanity temporarily in the future?

When I worked in construction / remodeling we always had to pose the question of will this stand up with two adults dancing on top of it. I just would not trust pocket screws in this situation, especially going into such a soft wood as doug fir. The studs behind plumbing fixtures seem to be the most degraded of anywhere in a house when your demolishing.
And I would add blocking between the studs to anchor that angle iron too.
Good point about future removal- I hadn’t thought about that.
This is definitely not your average vanity install.

[johnny means]

Some of these solutions are absolute overkill. What you have there is basically a shelf with one end attached to the wall and one end resting on a shelf bracket. I've mounted hundreds of commercial work stations and fixtures in similar configurations.

[Dave Sabo]

Some of these solutions are absolute overkill. What you have there is basically a shelf with one end attached to the wall and one end resting on a shelf bracket. I've mounted hundreds of commercial work stations and fixtures in similar configurations.

sure you have , and all those were exposed brackets with solid tops right ?

and none ever sagged in the middle , right ?

Hollow or sandwich construction with hidden supports is another animal.

Rods are doable , but are more difficult to install and adjust to all be level. And the diameter to support that weight is going to get really wide. Which means a big hole in a 2x4's edge - which is going to present its own structural issues. Just ask your structural engineer.

There are are plenty of ways to skin this cat, but the brackets I linked ( or similar ones ) are the path of least resistance. They'll install at least twice as fast as any rod system you care to design. We've been hanging kitchen and bath cabinets and shelves like this since the 90's. And unlike some worker bee in a cubicle, our users will not hesitate to call me the second a shelf or countertop wiggles, sags, deflects or simply looks out of level at the start.

[johnny means]

sure you have , and all those were exposed brackets with solid tops right ?

and none ever sagged in the middle , right ?

Hollow or sandwich construction with hidden supports is another animal.

Rods are doable , but are more difficult to install and adjust to all be level. And the diameter to support that weight is going to get really wide. Which means a big hole in a 2x4's edge - which is going to present its own structural issues. Just ask your structural engineer.

There are are plenty of ways to skin this cat, but the brackets I linked ( or similar ones ) are the path of least resistance. They'll install at least twice as fast as any rod system you care to design. We've been hanging kitchen and bath cabinets and shelves like this since the 90's. And unlike some worker bee in a cubicle, our users will not hesitate to call me the second a shelf or countertop wiggles, sags, deflects or simply looks out of level at the start.
That top, which the question was about, appears to be about 2.5 inches thick and 6" long. Supported at both ends and along the back, it wouldn't sag, unless it was rubber.

[mreza Salav]

I am surprised at some of the solutions suggested, they will fail in no time. The only ones that will stand a chance are those with hidden metal bracket bolted to the studs. The amount of leverage a downward force will create at the edge of the vanity is going to break a simple faster system to studs.
I would open the walls and put some welded angle iron T bolted to studs in at least 3 studs. The 4 or 6" thick vanity can't hold by any fastener alone.

[Dave Sabo]

That top, which the question was about, appears to be about 2.5 inches thick and 6" long. Supported at both ends and along the back, it wouldn't sag, unless it was rubber.

except that it's hollow in side to hide the brackets, not a solid 2.5". If supported only at each end it will sag.

Like I said , this is a lot different than office furniture. Custom residential is a different set problems.

The first being , no one wants to look at your hardware ! The sooner you acknowledge that, the better off everyone will be.

[Edwin Santos]

Just throwing an idea out there - if sagging is a particular concern, a case could be made to build a floating assembly like this in the torsion box style. This would make it light as well as very rigid, resistant to deflection of any sort.

Also, a torsion box could easily be constructed to accommodate the steel brackets being discussed.

[Günter VögelBerg]

I think what we have settled on it beef L brackets under the top, a french cleat under the bottom and maybe some pocket screts in the right side just for fun. We missed the window to install something pre-drywall, so I suggested we use the L brackets and make a false wall over them.

[Günter VögelBerg]

I do not think sagging is a concern. I picked up the wood today and it is beautiful 8/4 ash. I think I can get 1 7/8 out of it by the time I plane it down.

Heavy, though.

On a side note, is 8/4 ash usually hard to find? Of the three suppliers in town I use two said they do not stock it and no one asks for it. We paid $4.36/BF for it. I thought it seemed a little high.

[johnny means]

except that it's hollow in side to hide the brackets, not a solid 2.5". If supported only at each end it will sag.

Like I said , this is a lot different than office furniture. Custom residential is a different set problems.

The first being , no one wants to look at your hardware ! The sooner you acknowledge that, the better off everyone will be.

Look at what hardware? Any angle iron in my scenario would be completely hidden. Pretty sure I know my way around custom residential, do you?

[Thomas McCurnin]

No one seems overly concerned with the weight of this vanity, the sink, the water, the plumbing, and the stuff on top. Someone may lean on this assembly or if they are stupid, try to place body weight on it. I'd be a little concerned about mounting a floating assembly like this.

[Bill Jobe]

Ben has it right. :)

Bill, rods or fingers will work fine for something that doesn't project from the wall very far. Say 7". But a countertop that's 21"-25" from the wall has lots more forces to engineer for.

No, but drilled holes, a steel rod, set in epoxy while forcefully pressing the 2 together.
It sets in no time.

[Dave Sabo]

Look at what hardware? Any angle iron in my scenario would be completely hidden. Pretty sure I know my way around custom residential, do you?

Sure do johnny - got the awards, magazine covers, and photos with captains of industry and politicians on the wall documenting the journey. Must admit I'm not as well versed in commercial, which is what you you were on about with your hundreds of installs. I've never seen a commercial shelf or counter as you described where I couldn't look underneath and see the brackets or other supports. Never met a developer that was willing to pay for and allot the time necessary to hollow out those solid tops of which you speak to conceal said brackets. I'm sure they are out there though, cause you've seemed to have found them. All of what I've run across is mdf/particle board covered in laminate.

BTW , what kind of tooling are you using to bore the pockets 15-20" deep into these solid tops to conceal your hardware ?

What I am well versed in is the Euro type design and construction that Gunter's pic shows. They will never (well almost) use solid timber for a top like that and there is a cottage industry for manuf. the fittings used to hang them. They'll be veneered onto a ladder box type frame of mdf or particle board. Some even do honeycomb cardboard substrates to save weight. One of our suppliers uses honeycomb aluminum like you'd find in aviation interior panels. If one doesn't mind looking at the hardware when peering underneath the top, these are easy. But inconspicuous and totally hidden are two different things in my circles. I'm glad your system works for you, just keep in mind that "overkill" in your realm may just be the standard in someone else's. Not everyone wants , needs, or can afford obsessive detail like the picture - but those that do don't want good enough.

[Mark Daily]

I do not think sagging is a concern. I picked up the wood today and it is beautiful 8/4 ash. I think I can get 1 7/8 out of it by the time I plane it down.

Heavy, though.

On a side note, is 8/4 ash usually hard to find? Of the three suppliers in town I use two said they do not stock it and no one asks for it. We paid $4.36/BF for it. I thought it seemed a little high.

Not hard to find but more expensive:

https://www.woodworkerssource.com/ash/white-ash-84-lumber.html

[Bill Jobe]

A bit off topic on this thread, but Ash trees are disappearing at an alarming rate. 4 or 5 large ash trees along about a block and a half of the street I live on have died in just the past 3 or 4 years.
Just wondering if they are dying off nation wide.
In a few short years we may see the extinction of ash, similar to how Chestnut disappeared in the early 20th century.
All the more reason to get this right.
I hope you find an exceptionally good way to solve this issue.

This slab, about 2.5 years old is 30"x 21" and could be milled or sawn to 10".

My apologies to OP. Just wanted to spread the word about a serious topic in case those unfamiliar with the Ash blight read this.

[Mark Bolton]

similar to how Chestnut disappeared in the early 20th century.

That point is already here. In most all but a few areas Ash are pretty much gone. Its gone to the point where transport bans are no longer strictly enforced. Most around here done even bother cutting them anymore because they are standing dead/dry and you can get them on the ground without blowing them to pieces.

The prices here for KD Ash dwarfed Cherry a year or so ago. Its gone through the roof.

[Patrick Walsh]

ThAnk god I got this then.

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Was very easy to find 12/4 stick five years ago when I built it.

Try Horizone Hardwood in PA..

[Mark Bolton]

A lot that you find now is from small sawing operations who are still cutting the dead stuff. A lot of it heavily spalted, at least what Ive seen not a lot of thick/clear/stable unless its the live edge dog doo from the other thread.

I had been sawing all I could off my property but there was no way I could cut it all. Several years ago it was all dead standing and you would have to saw around what you got when the tree hit the ground.