Decline at the Woodworking Show @ The Big E in W. Springield, MA

[Jim Kirkpatrick]

Went to the annual Woodworking show at the Big E yesterday. I've noticed a steady decline in vendor attendance over the last couple of years. First and foremost, Peachtree left the scene last year, they took Jerry Cole from inline-industries and his great Dubby crosscut sled. They occupied 3 whole isles. Rather than filling the void with a good quality replacement like Rockler or Woodcraft, it seems they just spread out what they had. It was sad, the only good booth with a fun to watch a good sales barker was Grr-ripper from Microjig. I've been attending this show off and on for the last 30 years. I wonder if the advent of online sales is driving the decline of face to face shows. Anyhoo, just curious if anyone else attended and what your thoughts are.

[Clark Hussey]

Overall I was disappointed in the show.

[Matt Day]

I wonder if the advent of online sales is driving the decline of face to face shows.

I think you’ve got part of it. Also, there’s less reason to attend a show when one can go to YouTube and watch a similar presentation of the tool or the manufacturer's own website and of course check reviews online and ask questions on forums or social media.

I’ve never been to a show but honestly don’t see a reason why I should go. I’d probably be disappointed anyway.

[Jim Becker]

"Back in the day", these traveling shows were one of the only avenues, outside of being lucky enough to have a local woodworking store, to actually see and touch tools, hardware and materials as well as experience expert presentations on topics of interest. That ship sailed a long time ago and many vendors who used to pay to be in the shows stopped doing it when the economy was rough and discovered the wonders of the Internet. Combine that with waning interest in hobbies like this, I'm actually surprised that some of these shows still happen. There used to be multiple entities scheduling them. I could be wrong, but I think "The Woodworking Shows" circuit is about the only one left. What's sorta sad to me is that most of my major machines were purchased in conjunction with a few shows...the manufacturer used "my" machines on the show floor and I picked them up at show-close and took them home. For a healthy discount.

Even the big, "pro" focused events that alternate between Vegas and Atlanta took a major hit a number of years ago, but they have fortunately had a bit of a resurgence lately as the industry has recovered and all the new CNC type technology has come into play along side of more traditional big-iron and innovative hardware/techniques have evolved.

I did go to a show in Secacus NJ in 2018, but honestly, aside from the great company of a fellow local woodworker/'Creeker for the day, there was little of interest to me there outside of the always-wonderful Lee Valley booth and the nice folks at Woodpeckers. I did enjoy two presentations on sharpening and wood species, but that kind of thing is easily accessible outside of shows, too. I seriously doubt I'd attend any in the future. I would love to attend the Atlanta show again sometime...I had a lot of fun there years ago, being a "Booth Babe" for a manufacturer one time and a contributing photographer for a major woodworking magazine and wandering "miles" of show floors to oogle so many things, big and small.

[kent borcherding]

I used to attend several woodworking shows .
Finally decided to just attend the International Woodworking Show in Atlanta ,Ga. IWF.
IMHO feel this is the best show , plan to spend at least 2 days . Highland Hardware used to send me coupons for the IWF ,for free admission.

[johnny means]

Ironically, computer and internet technology trade shows and such can't find venues big enough.

[jack duren]

You'll still find a few deals and few get togethers to make the show worth attending. I haven't been in a few years but still considered it.... e
Even the "pro" shows are still taking beating as most companies now are the actual salesman for larger companies like SCM, CNC companies and more...

Our companies bought ax well as sold equipment. That's how you get things cheap in the industry...

[Erik Loza]

No dog in this fight but here are some observations as a sales rep who has done pretty much every IWF or AWFS show since 2003:

-The industry is strong and the shows reflect this. In Vegas last summer, we had all hands on deck and could have used more reps at times. For example, Felder’s booth for the IWF show this year will be the biggest in US history for our company.
-The used machinery market is the one which is in decline and it’s a supply-side issue. Since the post-recession recovery, the flood of used equipment sold through a long time ago. I have several professional contacts who specialize in brokering used equipment and basically, they can’t get their hands on enough of it. As newer machinery with newer features comes out at more competitive price points, the gap between older machinery (regardless of price) and the new stuff makes used less appealing. Lots of shops willing to pass on used and rather pay for the new, since they know the business will be there.
-Yes, the shows are increasingly moving toward the technology side of things but we still had a a ton of standard/classical machines in the booth, including little machines like a Hammer jointer/planer and edge sander. So, there’s something for everyone.

Anyhow, I agree with Kent: IWF or AWFS should be on everyone’s bucket list (2019 AWFS pics for attention :D)

Erik

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[Richard Coers]

It's my opinion that the hobbiest demographic has aged to the point where all the Grandpas have about all the machinery they will ever need. The younger crowd is just a fraction of the numbers of boomers in the past. Selling on little margin was still okay when they could sell the volume. Not so today. If you needed any tools and didn't buy them 7 weeks ago on Black Friday and Cyber Monday, you just weren't paying attention!

[Jeff Duncan]

I didn't even know there was a show coming up! Guess they're not reaching all the people they should be? Then again I may not have gone anyway as I'm not in the market to spend right now. I did used to attend the bi-annual shows down in Hartford, CT., when they still did them. They were actually pretty decent for what they were.

JeffD

[Bruce Wrenn]

Been to all but one IWF since 2000, but we aren't going this year. I recently closed the shop, plus it got to be a hassle to go. Our daughter used to work for a commuter for Delta. We would fly down on first flight of the day, take Marta to CNN center, have breakfast and walk across the street to the show. Check bags, do show, and take Marta to hotel. Repeat next day, and fly home third day. Now we drive 6-7 hours, stay on North side of town, and still use Marta to get to the show, then drive home on fourth day. Two days driving, and extra night's motel takes a toll, plus neither of us is getting any younger. We are both in our mid to late seventies. As for The Woodworking Shows, it's hard to believe Peachtree pulled out, as they used to own the show. After a couple years, only bought "trinkets" ( things that cost more to ship, than to purchase.) Closest show to here in Chantilly, which is the smallest show on the circuit. Charlotte show is closer, but never know till last minute if it's going to happen. Some years it does, and some it doesn't. It's always an after thought. Have two great local wood working stores, so that's where I go when I need something. Do love going to the FREE seminairs at The Wood Working Show

[William Hodge]

Went to the annual Woodworking show at the Big E yesterday. I've noticed a steady decline in vendor attendance over the last couple of years. First and foremost, Peachtree left the scene last year, they took Jerry Cole from inline-industries and his great Dubby crosscut sled. They occupied 3 whole isles. Rather than filling the void with a good quality replacement like Rockler or Woodcraft, it seems they just spread out what they had. It was sad, the only good booth with a fun to watch a good sales barker was Grr-ripper from Microjig. I've been attending this show off and on for the last 30 years. I wonder if the advent of online sales is driving the decline of face to face shows. Anyhoo, just curious if anyone else attended and what your thoughts are.


I used to sell millwork at trade shows. As people started being able to learn stuff online, trade shows became less important. The clientele shrank so that a larger percentage were people who wanted to go for entertainment and a meal, and people unable to look stuff up online. The customers I would pick up at trade shows tended to be unable to use email, which made them hard to work with. It's fine with me if people are illiterate, I just don't want to work with them.

My time was better spent searching for the right customers online, doing research on them, and then cold calling them. I could quickly find out if they needed my products and help , and either end the call, or set up a visit. My first trade show was in 1990, and my last trade show was in 2006. I have a year long backlog of work.

I learn stuff online, instead of from sales people at trade shows. For example, most of my interest in this forum concerns dust collection. For machinery, I watch the used market within 200 miles. For tools and equipment, I learn more reading online than I ever would from a non-woodworker in a store.

[Carl Crout]

When I got into woodworking in 2002 people were complaining about the decline in the ww shows. It will only get worse. Of all of the ww machines that I have bought since 02, probably 20 large machinery items I only bought one at a local Woodcraft. I had to drive 120 miles to get it and pay sale tax. After that nearly everything came from Amazon with free ship and no tax. Now that Amazon charges tax I look around more but still buy online. I would like to go to a show but am not interested on paying to pay or paying to get in. Also would want a discounted price at the show not full MSRP

[Rod Sheridan]

423608423609423610Agreed Erik. I worked WMS in Toronto last October, extremely busy show. Here are a few shots of the Felder booth. We had about half of the machines running and connected to dust extraction.

My opinion on hobby wood working shows is that they're becoming more irrelevant every day. The shows are costly to attend so most suppliers don't go the expense of moving, installing and powering machinery, and I'm not interested in going to see 10 vendors selling router bits and glue........Rod.

[Rich Engelhardt]

I'm not interested in going to see 10 vendors selling router bits and glue........Rod.LOL! Count your blessings.....@ gun shows, it's 10 vendors selling beef jerky, "Kill em & Let God Sort em Out" t-shirts and knives made of some poor freighter that got washed up on the shore in Asia someplace..... ;).

[Erik Loza]

Don't know if I can post a link since it might be advertising but there will be a show happening here in Austin this April that we will be attending. Small venue but the promoter is a young guy, very media-savvy, and has really curated the exhibitor list. Local bespoke furniture makers + more high-end ww'ing products like Lie Nielsen, Festool, etc. No glue and router bits, LOL. They have a really good social media campaign, targeted more at millenials and younger folks just getting into the hobby. Last year was his first year and the show had 700+ attendees in one day. My feeling is that there is a definitely a market for regional shows but that we need to re-think who we are marketing to. I agree with Richard that the old timers with measuring-tape suspenders (sorry if you own those) have bought what they are going to buy but there is a younger market that just needs a different approach.

Erik

[Jack Frederick]

My trade show theory developed over the years is that every three day show can be improved by making it two days. Every two day to one and every one day show to every other year. The big shows in the major metropolitan areas are big money events just to attend.

[Patrick Kane]

Never been to an IWF show, but would love to attend if it ever made sense. Later in life if i ever open the purse strings for new equipment, I think I would be foolish not to attend one. Youtube is great for some things, but comparing equipment is not one of them. Felder's digital marketing is great. Harry presents things in an intelligent and exciting fashion. Their mute austrian carpenter using their tools to build hot tubs and bee hives are very entertaining as well. But, how do you compare the Felder video to the Minimax video, its hard to tell which machine you prefer when they arent in person or side by side. Not to mention, who doesnt want to atleast touch the very high end equipment?

I do wonder who attends the rinky dink local/regional trade shows. The demos never seem that appealing.

[Rod Sheridan]

That sounds very interesting Erik..............regards, Rod.

[Rod Sheridan]

LOL! Count your blessings.....@ gun shows, it's 10 vendors selling beef jerky, "Kill em & Let God Sort em Out" t-shirts and knives made of some poor freighter that got washed up on the shore in Asia someplace..... ;).

OK, I'll concede..........The wood working show doesn't seem so bad now.:D

[Roger Feeley]

Not to pile on, but I lost interest when the big manufacturers stopped coming. It used to be that Powermatic would have a giant section where you could see, touch and operate big machines like 24" planers. But those days are gone. In Kansas City, PM started working with at the local Woodcraft. The guys would clear out the front of the store and PM would bring stuff in. That worked so well that both PM and WC stopped going to the WW show. Woodcraft worked out deals with Festool, Delta and so on. It brought people into the store and they sold a lot of equipment. Once the big guys dropped out, it was a lot less interesting and I certainly wasn't willing to pay $15 to go in.

[Erik Loza]

My trade show theory developed over the years is that every three day show can be improved by making it two days. Every two day to one and every one day show to every other year.

Agree with this 100%. In fact, I think the IWF and AWFS are have shifted their shows from Weds-Sat to Tues-Fri since Saturdays were historically so dead.

Erik

[Andrew More]

-The used machinery market is the one which is in decline and it’s a supply-side issue. Since the post-recession recovery, the flood of used equipment sold through a long time ago. I have several professional contacts who specialize in brokering used equipment and basically, they can’t get their hands on enough of it. As newer machinery with newer features comes out at more competitive price points, the gap between older machinery (regardless of price) and the new stuff makes used less appealing. Lots of shops willing to pass on used and rather pay for the new, since they know the business will be there.

I find this comment to be self-contradictory. The first few sentences seem to indicate there are few old machines for sale. Then you say that the new machines come in with better features, at similar prices, so the shops don't want older equipment. Could you expand on this a bit. IS there a large used tool market or not?

From my personal experience at watching craigslist for the past couple of years it really seems to be hit or miss. Some things that are overpriced IMHO, because of the brand, while other things are never seen. For example I have seen only one instance of a used SawStop being listed, and that was gone almost immediately. However sometimes you'll see old iron in various states that will just sit for weeks or months. Often times it's because people don't want to mess with 3 phase motors, but others it's just too large for hobbiest like myself.

Also I find this focus on just woodworking shows might mean that the maker movement shops have been missed? I've seen reports from a few of the channels I follow on youtube which have reported great things at maker fairers and shows, such as Benchcon.

[Mark Hockenberg]

I started woodworking over thirty year ago when I lived in Chicago. I went to my first "The Woodworking Show" there. I was in heaven - It was huge and well attended by vendors.

I live in Denver now and went to the last one that came through here. - It was pathetic and I walked around trying to figure out if I missed something.

I'll be headed for Atlanta or Vegas next.

[Erik Loza]

I find this comment to be self-contradictory. The first few sentences seem to indicate there are few old machines for sale. Then you say that the new machines come in with better features, at similar prices, so the shops don't want older equipment. Could you expand on this a bit. IS there a large used tool market or not?

Andrew, I think I was was referring more to the professional side of the used machinery market: CNC's, edgebanders, big panel saws, etc. There will probably always be demand for hobby-level machines. The local show I mentioned is going to be maker-centric. You're right: That's what will get folks to come, not the same stuff they can buy on Amazon.

Erik

[Will Blick]

I love a good ww show... attended Vegas show a few times...so much to see outside of machines! I can see how all trade shows are slowing with the advent of digital marketing and YT. In some trades, its more than the show...its establishing relationships, setting up dealerships, volume pricing, etc, etc. But with ww, this is less significant, as distribution is limited to most of the big players. I am sure Amazon threw a monkey wrench in the marketplace for many re sellers.
Things like CES still booming, cause you have to see a TV in person, u cant watch it on YT or trust a review. I do agree though, it seems the hardcore hobbiest or semi pros, are mostly 50+....most of the younger crowd prefers electronics vs. sawdust, cant blame em.
Same true with astronomy... with the internet, you can see imagery that cost billion$ to produce... hard for your $5k scope to get you as excited vs. the pre technology days, so the hobby was / in in massive decline.
Erik deals a lot in the trades, of course, that will stay strong, as there will always be custom cabinet shops and millwork shops. Although, all the higher end makers have created nice product lines for the hardcore enthusiast as well. Lots of great choices, we are lucky.

[Edwin Santos]

Don't know if I can post a link since it might be advertising but there will be a show happening here in Austin this April that we will be attending. Small venue but the promoter is a young guy, very media-savvy, and has really curated the exhibitor list. Local bespoke furniture makers + more high-end ww'ing products like Lie Nielsen, Festool, etc. No glue and router bits, LOL. They have a really good social media campaign, targeted more at millenials and younger folks just getting into the hobby. Last year was his first year and the show had 700+ attendees in one day. My feeling is that there is a definitely a market for regional shows but that we need to re-think who we are marketing to. I agree with Richard that the old timers with measuring-tape suspenders (sorry if you own those) have bought what they are going to buy but there is a younger market that just needs a different approach.

Erik

Thank you for posting this Erik! It sounds like the kind of show I would like to travel to attend.

Couldn't agree with you more, there is a very different market of woodworkers today than 20 years ago. The Internet has really allowed artisan furniture makers to collaborate and inspire one another. To see that starting to happen in live regional shows along with the vendors that cater to the niche, is very cool.

[Jack Frederick]

Don't know if I can post a link since it might be advertising but there will be a show happening here in Austin this April that we will be attending. Small venue but the promoter is a young guy, very media-savvy, and has really curated the exhibitor list. Local bespoke furniture makers + more high-end ww'ing products like Lie Nielsen, Festool, etc. No glue and router bits, LOL. They have a really good social media campaign, targeted more at millenials and younger folks just getting into the hobby. Last year was his first year and the show had 700+ attendees in one day. My feeling is that there is a definitely a market for regional shows but that we need to re-think who we are marketing to. I agree with Richard that the old timers with measuring-tape suspenders (sorry if you own those) have bought what they are going to buy but there is a younger market that just needs a different approach.

Erik

About 15 yrs ago the Radiant Heat Assoc was having their national show in Providence, RI. I, as a Rep in the industry, saw a great opportunity and lined up all of my manuf to participate. All hands on deck. Got all set up and the show was a complete bust. The Assoc never marketed to all of the local New England contractors, the largest group of radiant contractors in the country. I think I spoke with more contractors from AZ than I did from MA. Incredible and a huge loss to everyone. They didn't do the work and it was a bust. To bad, a great opportunity lost. A well promoted and attended show can be a real pleasure. You are fortunate to have a guy like him, Eric. Tell him to go national!

[Bruce Wrenn]

Agree with this 100%. In fact, I think the IWF and AWFS are have shifted their shows from Weds-Sat to Tues-Fri since Saturdays were historically so dead.

Erik


Saturday was nothing but a bunch of "tire kickers," according to a friend who worked a booth there.