Kitchen Knives

[Tom Bender]

Most of our kitchen knives were inexpensive and are decades old. They don't seem to get dull ever. One exception is a slightly more expensive Kitchen Aid knife we have had a few years. It goes dull when hardly used. Sure I could buy more expensive knives but well,,,"fool me once..."

The old knives are meeting our needs.

[Mike Cutler]

If you have tools that work, stick with them.
Some 35 years ago we bought a set of Henckels knives when we were first starting out. They weren't cheap,but not super expensive either. They're still in daily use to this day. They do get dull from time to time though.;)

[Steve Demuth]

In my experience, whenever someone shows me a knife like yours - stays sharp forever - two things are true: first, it's not actually very sharp; second, it's made of a stainless alloy that is almost impossible to re-sharpen adequately. I'm curious - have you found an exception?

[Jim Becker]

Old knives are just fine as long as you can get them sharp and keep them sharp. Any knife that will not keep an edge is a dangerous knife. It sounds like your older knives are decent products so yea...keep them in service. And throw out that one that will not stay sharp or dedicate it to slitting open Amazon delivery boxes. :)

[Rob Luter]

It's all about the steel. I have a couple of old carbon steel knives that hold a razor edge for a long time. I also have three commercial quality (meat packing industry) stainless knives that are over 35 years old and also hold a decent edge. We have a couple knives that hang around because my bride likes them. The steel is junk. Copper would hold a better edge. If I had my druthers I'd rather have all carbon steel. They take a keener edge and last longer.

[Adam Herman]

we have some old carbon steel that i truly love as well. every time they are used by my other half, i get complaints that they are not a full offset handle though, and sometimes they get left wet in the sink. these things may be connected.

we also have some stainless knives by shun that are very nice. try to get them sharpened every other year or so by a guy at the farmers market, who also has a shop that does saws and everything else.

your stainless knife may just have not had a good edge from the factory, get them all sharpened and see what happens.

[Gary Ragatz]

If you have knives that "don't seem to get dull ever," I suspect either your knives don't see much use, or your expectations are different from mine. I have a variety of different knife brands in the kitchen, from inexpensive (Victorinox) to mid-price (Chicago Cutlery) to higher-end (Henckels and Wusthof). Many are 25+ years old, and all will take a good edge (knives that wouldn't have found new homes). Some hold that edge longer than others, but all need regular sharpening. Frequency varies. If I'm getting ready to slice up a ripe tomato, the knife gets a few strokes on a steel, regardless of how recently it's been sharpened. The knife I use most often for chopping vegetables probably sees the steel once or twice a week.

That said, I'm pretty sure there are regulars over in the Neanderthal Haven forum who would pitch my entire collection of wood chisels in the trash, deeming them inadequate even to donate to Goodwill :)

[Rob Luter]

we also have some stainless knives by shun that are very nice. try to get them sharpened every other year or so by a guy at the farmers market, who also has a shop that does saws and everything else.

Shuns are very nice. I'd like to have one of their Chef's Knives but the missus might not appreciate the cost. My Dexter-Russell commercial will have to do for now. It's served me well since 1982.


... your stainless knife may just have not had a good edge from the factory, get them all sharpened and see what happens.

I've got the sharpening thing figured out. My commercial stainless knives (Dexter-Russell , Victorinox, and Cuisinart) all hold an edge well. The stainless is hardened to a reasonable level. They see a steel prior to each use and are honed regularly.

The couple that my wife likes (and wants to keep) are cheap offshore knives we got when we were young and poor. The steel is very soft. They are "sharpen prior to use" knives and won't hold a fine edge. I think my wife likes them that way, as when I sharpen the good knives up properly she's somewhat alarmed at how sharp they get. Scary sharp is an apt description in her case.

[Roger Feeley]

We have a knif that was made by my wife’s uncle. I would guess that it’s probably from a powe hacksaw blade. Definitely not stainless. That thing is a real stinker to sharpen but the edge seems to last. The thin blades make them about the best tomato slicers I’ve ever had. The weak link is the handles. On one ( my favorite) the wood just sort of disintegrated. Since I use the knife mostly for tomato slicing, I made the scales different thicknesses. One side is 3/16 and the other is 1/4. I can hold the knife flat on the cutting board and move the tomato through it like a mandolin.

[Jim Koepke]

Roger, your tomato slicing method sounds like one for me to give a try. Candy likes her tomato slices thick whereas my preference is for thin. This seems like a great method to have it both ways without any fuss.

Tomato slicing is my standard test for kitchen knife sharpness. Most of the time the knives are given a few passes on an extra fine diamond stone epoxied to a piece of hardwood before using.

Two of our knives are Wüsthof, purchased many years ago. There is something to be said about the day a man and woman go out together to buy knives. One large knife is a Chicago Cutlery purchased in the 1970s from the Berkeley Co-op for ~$10. The paring knives were purchased one at a time. One is a Japanese 'Mac' knife, one is a small no name knife and one was purchased in a small grocery store while camping because we forgot to pack a paring knife for the trip. The no name knife's handle was starting to delaminate. Soaking it in BLO fixed that.

They all seem to hold an edge well with minimum touch up on the diamond stone kept in a kitchen drawer. About once a year they get carried out to the shop for a full sharpening session. My wife has made it clear to let her know when this takes place.

At one time my preference was for carbon steel knives. my preference was changed after getting married to a woman with three daughters. They failed to understand the part about not letting knives sit unwashed or soaking.

Some stainless will pit if left soaking with silver plated or sterling silver utensils.

jtk

[Frank Pratt]

If you have knives that "don't seem to get dull ever," I suspect either your knives don't see much use, or your expectations are different from mine.

Agreed. There's no such thing as a kitchen knife that won't get to a state of not being 'acceptably sharp' after moderate use. My best kitchen knife is an expensive Henckles and it needs touching up after a few serious chopping sessions. There are lots of better knives, but they all get dull & need to be sharpened.

[Doug Dawson]

At one time my preference was for carbon steel knives. my preference was changed after getting married to a woman with three daughters. They failed to understand the part about not letting knives sit unwashed or soaking.

Aye, edge holding has a lot to do with how the knife is handled. My rule is, the knife does not leave my hand after use until it is washed and dried. As you've noticed, this is very hard to teach to other philisti..., er, people. :^)

[Mike Cutler]

We have some somewhat expensive knives, in addition to the Henckel's I mentioned. They all need sharpening from time to time, no doubts there.
I do have a Takeda large cleaver, Chukabocho, that scares me to use now that I know how much it cost. :eek: But wow! does that thing do a nice job.
Like Doug, it doesn't leave my hand until it's back in the box and put away.

[Jim Becker]

Aye, edge holding has a lot to do with how the knife is handled. My rule is, the knife does not leave my hand after use until it is washed and dried. As you've noticed, this is very hard to teach to other philisti..., er, people. :^)
I agree with this totally. Unfortunately, with three others in the house, I have to touch "my" knives up with frequency because others don't handle them as carefully as I do.

[Doug Dawson]

We have some somewhat expensive knives, in addition to the Henckel's I mentioned. They all need sharpening from time to time, no doubts there.
I do have a Takeda large cleaver, Chukabocho, that scares me to use now that I know how much it cost. :eek: But wow! does that thing do a nice job.
Like Doug, it doesn't leave my hand until it's back in the box and put away.

Plus, there's the issue of reaching into the dish sink and coming into contact with a properly sharpened knife. Ooooh...

I have some Wusthofs, but I mainly use Globals and Japanese artisanal knives, and this could be quite memorable. Buck Henry, RIP, had an encounter live on SNL with John Belushi's samurai sword, and kept going, I don't know if I could do that.

[Edwin Santos]

Shuns are very nice. I'd like to have one of their Chef's Knives but the missus might not appreciate the cost.

Now you're talking. Most of the Shun knives are high carbon clad with Damascus steel. Their claim to fame is the combination of the layers of Japanese steel combined with the Damascus method of forging results in a knife that will take a 16 degree bevel without becoming fragile. This compares to a western knife which should stay at a 20 degree bevel to be on the safe side. The difference in bevel will by itself result in a considerably sharper edge.

I used to have a set of Henckels knives and can tell you they are junk compared to a Shun. And just to show how everything is relative, if you browse the catalog of a seller called Korin, you will find Japanese knives that will make the Shuns look like junk.

This is all probably sounding like the chisel discussions in the Neanderthal Forum. Because it is.

Edwin

[Mike Cutler]

Plus, there's the issue of reaching into the dish sink and coming into contact with a properly sharpened knife. Ooooh...


My mom did an excellent job of making sure her children NEVER put a knife in the sink full of other dishes.:eek: My mom was a really, really, nice person, but,,,,,,,

[Bruce Wrenn]

I have several kinds of knives. Wife's favorite is a 10" Old Hickory butcher knife, which she uses for everything from paring to peeling. Likes it nice and DULL. Says she would cut herself if it was sharp. I have several Chicago Cuttery knives (pre Walmart days), some Case, and a couple Dexeters, all of which were purchased in local thrift stores. I'm a sucker for a wooden handle knife. One Grohmman 10" chef's knife was bought at a half off sale at local Habitat Restore for the princely sum of a QUARTER. Ordered directly from Grohmman, it would have set me back a "C" note and some change.

[Peter Kelly]

I agree with this totally. Unfortunately, with three others in the house, I have to touch "my" knives up with frequency because others don't handle them as carefully as I do.I keep my MAC and Miyabi knives hidden for that very reason..

Anyone in or near Hudson Valley area should check out Warren Cutlery (http://warrenkitchentools.com) in Rhinebeck NY. Knife Valhalla! They also sell Festool and other woodworking stuff out of a separate space around the corner.

[roger wiegand]

My favorite "knife" is my carbon steel Chinese cleaver that I bought for $3 when I was in grad school many decades ago. It looks horrible, but I've never found anything else that is as easy to use for such a wide range of tasks. (that include some knives that cost 50-70x more money) It dulls pretty quickly, but it also sharpens very quickly. I just keep a diamond hone in the knife drawer and give it a swipe or two every other time I pick it up and it's plenty sharp for any and all kitchen tasks. It's probably a half inch shorter now than when I bought it, should be enough steel left to make it to the end.

[Jim Becker]

I'm less enamored with my Globals than I was originally, Doug. The knives I currently enjoy the most are the two Zhen knives I made from Woodcraft kits (Nakiri and a Looonnnggg bread knife) and my Zwilling Pro knives. Keeping the Globals sharp has been a challenge; not so for the others. The Nakiri is my most used knife. I just love that format...thin, wide, lightweight and balanced as well as wide for easily picking up stuff I just cut.

[Roger Feeley]

Aye, edge holding has a lot to do with how the knife is handled. My rule is, the knife does not leave my hand after use until it is washed and dried. As you've noticed, this is very hard to teach to other philisti..., er, people. :^)


My family is tired of being lectured about letting the older knives stay wet. I'm pretty much the only one that uses those old knives. My rule is that there are only two kinds of knives: those that hold an edge, and those that don't rust.

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

Agreed on the fact that some folks do not know what sharp is. A reason I held on to my old carbon steel Chef's knife for years, was that is was so easy to sharpen. Blade was heavy on the back and near paper thin on the edge. Super for slicing. We went through a series of crap stainless knives. Sure you can cut a carrot, but so can a butter knife. Then about 20 years ago, we visited folks who had a set of expensive Wusthoff knives. I helped the husband in the kitchen. those knives were incredible. Now we have a set. Like several other brands, there are the housewife quality, the restaurant kitchen quality and the ones the Chefs baby and carry with them from job to job. Easy to tell when a knife is dull, rest the weight on a ripe tomato and pull back a half inch without pressing down. it the knife cuts the skin it is sharp, if it rides on top it is dull. A truly sharp knife can cut a ripe tomato thin enough to read through the slice. Many people don't know the difference between a chopping knife and a slicing knife. Also unfortunate for the knife's edge. We keep a cheaper set of Henckels for the kids to use. The Wusthoffs are not as good as some knives, but do for us and I can sharpen them.

[Frank Pratt]

There's a whole lot of hyperbole going on here when people are extolling the virtues of carbon steel over stainless. Yes, generally speaking, carbon steel will take and hold and edge better & longer than a stainless blade, but really, equating a stainless blade with something like a dull stick is silly. I've got 2 or 3 stainless knives that are easily sharpened to a razor edge. When they dull, they get a quick touch up. No big deal if I get 10 or 20% less cutting time.

[Doug Dawson]

I'm less enamored with my Globals than I was originally, Doug. The knives I currently enjoy the most are the two Zhen knives I made from Woodcraft kits (Nakiri and a Looonnnggg bread knife) and my Zwilling Pro knives. Keeping the Globals sharp has been a challenge; not so for the others. The Nakiri is my most used knife. I just love that format...thin, wide, lightweight and balanced as well as wide for easily picking up stuff I just cut.

I have a Tormek T8 set up on permanent duty for knife sharpening. It sets up the Globals just fine.

I also have a Chef's Choice electric sharpener, purchased many years ago, it gets highly/top-rated by Cooks Illustrated, but it is meh in comparison, and not suited at all to the thinner Japanese knives. It works okay on the Wusthofs, in a pinch, according to my wife (she doesn't zen out on the Tormek, which she looks at like a Rube Goldbergian espresso machine.)

I could use my Shaptons for this, but the angles are too weird, and so not easily repeatable.

[Jim Becker]

Yea, I just keep a double sided diamond "stone" in the drawer for "repairs" as well as periodic serious re-sharpening and use the steel frequently. The latter has really helped keep the specific knives I use the most performing well. My Zwilling knives can actually be sent in to them for free sharpening if I want/need that...a nice benefit of ownership outside of the down-time. A local commercial sharpener will also do non-commercial knives with pickup and delivery at a small fabric store in the local train station for reasonable rates. That's nice for many folks who don't know how to or don't want to sharpen themselves beyond the steel.

[John Meyer]

What is the best sharpening device for serrated knives? Seem to have trouble sharpening some of these knives for my wife.

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

Good knives never go in the sink or dishwasher. Anybody leaves water in the sink here better be laying dead next to the sink. We don't leave anything laying around needing to be cleaned, at least not in the kitchen. You make a mess, you better clean it up immediately, or you lose the right to even enter the kitchen.

[Doug Dawson]

What is the best sharpening device for serrated knives? Seem to have trouble sharpening some of these knives for my wife.

I use a Japanese slip stone for those. I mainly use those knives for bread, which is not too demanding, so the knives stay sharp a long time. Mmmmm, brisket sammiches!

[Jim Koepke]

What is the best sharpening device for serrated knives? Seem to have trouble sharpening some of these knives for my wife.

It depends on the type of serrated knife.

My favorite steak knife is flat ground on one side. As Doug mentions a slip stone is used from the other side to maintain the scallops or serrations. My Arkansas stone slips get used for this. My Japanese slips work nice but are too easy to slice into with a knife. Though being soft they can be formed to the knife. This is good if you want to dedicate a slip stone to the knife.

My inexpensive set of steak knives was made by hollow grinding both sides and then cutting the serrations were all cut from one side. These haven't been sharpened yet, but it would involve using slip stones.

A serrated bread knife is often has its serrations cut from both sides. This would likely be done with slip stones from both sides.

Sharpening a serrated knife is similar to sharpening a saw. What is really doing most if not all of the cutting is the points. Work at sharpening the points, then lightly work the back side to remove any burrs. With a well fitting slip stone or a little stone angling getting the point sharp will also produce an edge in the scallops.

jtk

[Rich Engelhardt]

Yes, generally speaking, carbon steel will take and hold and edge better & longer than a stainless blade, but really, equating a stainless blade with something like a dull stick is silly. I've got 2 or 3 stainless knives that are easily sharpened to a razor edge. When they dull, they get a quick touch up.HOWEVER -- - the carbon steel knives just need a few swipes on the Spyderco Sharpmaker to restore the edge.
Stainless Steel doesn't respond so well to the ceramic & needs to have some sort of abrasive applied that will remove steel.

My carbon steel knives get the ceramic every time I go to use them. They see a stone, maybe once every 5 years - or more.
Stainless blades see a stone quite a bit. The Sharpmaker can only do so much, then it's just a waste of time.


What is the best sharpening device for serrated knives? Seem to have trouble sharpening some of these knives for my wife.Spyderco Sharpmaker.

[Flamone LaChaud]

We had a set of Wustoff/Henkels back in the day, up until a house fire took away most of our kitchen. My wife replaced them with a set of Harris Teeter stainless steel knives (our local grocery store) knives that did ok at best. Eventually I learned how to freehand sharpen my woodworking cutting tools, and attempted to sharpen the kitchen knives as well. It was a huge improvement . . . but they were good for about a half dozen onions/carrots/celery stalks before needing attention again. Was browsing the auction site, and ran across a seller that specialized in older Japanese kitchen knives, and most of the makers didn't have any info that I could find via the googles. I picked up three on a lark - a Deba, Nikiri, and Sashimi . . . and it was unreal the difference. Now that the wife has discovered what sharp is, and how much easier it is to use a sharp knife - those other stainless steel knives just don't get used. Plus, I think the older knives are actually easier to sharpen.