Ok machinery guys I need education ASAP.

[Patrick Walsh]

So day one of the new job. Boy o boy I’m gonna have to get used to making nice stuff with nothing or get the new boss to build upon his shop.

Anyway that’s another story.

Right now I have a planer I need to tune. It’s cuts a 6” of snipe on the leading edge and 1-2” on the trailing edge.

Attached are pics of the machine. A quick rundown of what I do know. The feed rolls need adjusting. Clearly the adjustments are made a in front of the cutter with those Allen set screw with the nut and behind the head with the four Allen screws two with springs. Tighten them more pressure. Loosen them less pressure. Don’t tighten or loosen them left to right evenly and the pressure is not even and the board does not feed straight. Other than that that’s what I know.

Oh the feed roller under the cast table. Well those were a mess. I really don’t know how they are supposed to be set when zeroed out. I assume zero and or flush with the table. They were not that way. I took a straight edge and found the leading roller to be high even when zeroed. It was like 1/16 high resulting in a straight edge not being able to lay flat across the tables from to back. I adjusted that so the rollers sit exactly flush with the tables when zeroed. I used feeler gauges and a straight edge to make sure the front roller and rear roller raise and lower exactly the same. Again I have no idea if this is how they should be. It did seem to help though.

So I can almost get rid of my leading edge snipe by tightening the feed roller in front of the cutter. But as I approach no snipe the piece begins to not want to feed. The only solution to get the workpiece moving is to raise the table rollers. Problem is if I raise the table rollers the snipe gets worse again.

I was able to get things setup so I get zero snipe on the trailing edge and like 3” on the leading edge and minimal at that but what I consider terrible as I need to build right off this machine. If I lift the trailing edge of the board as I feed into the machine I can get rid of much of the leading edge snipe.

You know any amount of snipe is just not ok with me. As it is I’m gonna have to get used to building stuff without a wide belt sander and with a 12” jointer. Big stuff to not little stuff that most hobby homeowner guys can make argument for not needing fancy large machines. Point is I can’t argue with this machine it just needs to work and I need to make it work first thing in the morning.

So Im begging those that know please teach me.

My combo Felder was tuned by the the techs until I was happy. It cuts perfect to this day. My previous employer purchase a SCMI class 630 when I complained his grizzly machine that had the same exact issues as this machine was a piece of crap. I knew it was not crap but that I had no idea how to tune it and he didn’t want to pay me to learn. The SCMI machine cut perfect right out of the box. So you know I’d like that experience again but I know I also need to know how to deal with this issue new machine or old. And I don’t feel much like telling the new boss to buy a new planer. I’d much prefer he purchased me a few shapers a wide belt sander or a wide jointer.

423100

423101

423102

[Jeff Duncan]

Can't help you on getting rid of the snipe, luckily my machine works well and never needed adjustment. I can give you the contact info of a local tech who may be able to do it for you, but thats about it. Of course if you've got it dialed down to the 1st 3" of the board.... you could plan around by leaving your stock long.

As far as the table rollers.... I was taught to have them flush with the table for planed stock and raised a bit for rough stock. I set mine so they contact the wood just enough to roll and leave them there as I don't really plane rough stock.

good luck,
JeffD

[Darcy Warner]

Download and print this out, sure its printed by buss, but it goes for all planers. No idea of the way to adjust that machine, other than replace it with a buss. Lol.

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=4977

[Patrick Walsh]

Darcy,


I mean that in the nicest way of course.

Thanks for the info.

I should be able to get any machine cutting snipe free correct provided I’m willing to screw with it enough?’’

Or do you just gotta pay big money for a such a luxury.

Yeah I can cut it out jeff but I’d rather take the practice approach and actually once and for not just ignore the problem like it’s gonna go away but face it head on and not be scared of it next time.


Download and print this out, sure its printed by buss, but it goes for all planers. No idea of the way to adjust that machine, other than replace it with a buss. Lol.

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=4977

[David Kumm]

Even a Buss needs adjusting, but once done it stays in adjustment longer than you. For a finish planer, I'd take the bed rollers to -0- and get them out of play. Then it is a matter of getting the feed roller pressure right, the chipbreakers set, and the pressure bar exactly at the arc of the knives so the finished board just slips under it enough to keep moving. It's all kind of a dance. Dave

[Bradley Gray]

Rule of thumb I go by - set the in feed, out feed rollers and pressure bar even with the cutterhead, then lower the infeed 1/4 turn and the out feed 1/2 turn.

I have a really old Monarch planer and with it I adjust the pressure bar with the machine running - if the board stops, raise it. If you get chatter, lower it.

Seems like you should be able to get the manual easily since it is a modern machine.

[Kevin Jenness]

That appears to be a Powermatic 201. Here is a link to the manual content.powermatic.com › manuals › 1791267_man
(http://content.powermatic.com/manuals/1791267_man.pdf)
Looks like a solid, basic design. The feed section diagram looks almost exactly like the one for my 60's era PM 180 and the adjustments are substantially the same. The pressure bar is the most exacting, it has to keep the stock held down tight without too much friction.I have to keep my bed, pressure bar and chipbreaker waxed regularly once adjusted to keep things moving. As Bradley says, I adjust the pressure bar under power.

[Mel Fulks]

The surest way to stop snipe from planer is use a helper to catch and run the stock end to end. To stop the other snipe
...stop visiting forums.

[Darcy Warner]

Darcy,



I mean that in the nicest way of course.

Thanks for the info.

I should be able to get any machine cutting snipe free correct provided I’m willing to screw with it enough?’’

Or do you just gotta pay big money for a such a luxury.

Yeah I can cut it out jeff but I’d rather take the practice approach and actually once and for not just ignore the problem like it’s gonna go away but face it head on and not be scared of it next time.

You should be able to get that thing planing pretty well, like Dave said, I am use to adjust it once every 5 years kind of thing. That's probably the only real down side to a lot of the newer, lighter stuff, they don't hold adjustments as well.

Also, I use a 5" block instead of 4" I have wide hands. Lol.

[Richard Coers]

No, not every planer will cut snipe free. Most industrial machines can be set for roughing, that's why the bed rolls are set high. I had a 24" Yates American that I let cut a snipe so I could run with less drag on the bed. I always trim at least 3" off the ends of rough sawn boards anyway, to remove any end checking. So no big deal to get a snipe.

[Mark Hennebury]

How does that song go; "Start at the very beginning... it's a very good place to start"

Get the bed rollers out of play. Check the table is flat and clean, so, straight edge, Union jack, pattern, around the perimeter across the diagonals. then clean and stone it, to remove nicks and high spots.
Now you have a flat reference surface.
Now check with a block of wood under the cutter to see if your blades are all touching, check on both sides. Now you have a flat surface and a parallel cutting surface.
Now check your front and rear chipbreaker/ pressure bars are flat. If not remove them and lap them flat. Bevel the leading edge of the rear one, so the the board can slide under it and not jam into it.
Now you are ready to adjust it.
Set you chipbreaker/ pressure bar level with the bottom dead centre of the cutters with a block on the table.
Set the infeed roller a bit lower and the outfeed a bit lower still.
Clean and wax the table. tweak the pressure and heights settings.
Pressure bar setting is critical.

Some bed rollers are on cams, which moves their center axis forward or backward, when raised or lowered, if you have a feed roller over the top of the bed roller that can cause the wood lift up or down going into the cutterhead. Ideally the feed rollers should be inside of the bed rollers, so that they are always pushing the wood to the table as it enters the pressure bar and cutterhead.

[Patrick Walsh]

Well at least my intuition was good getting rid of the rollers. Seems every dam machine I have ever used with them even the new SCMi they create issues. It has always been my understanding that as suggested below they are used for roughing and or skip planing.

No stinking Felder does not have them and I have zero issues. And that new SCMI would make terrible noises with anything but the slightest pressure set on them. Sounded like it might rip a feed roller right out of the machine. Back em off though and it worked a charm.

I only see adjustment on the top side of this machine for the what I at least think is the pressure roll in front of and behind the the cutter. I don’t see adjustments for the chip breaker or pressure bars. Almost looks to me like that’s all built into the feed roll adjustments. Maybe I Did not look hard enough or maybe I did and there is only four points of adjustment baring the adjustments for the under table rollers.




Even a Buss needs adjusting, but once done it stays in adjustment longer than you. For a finish planer, I'd take the bed rollers to -0- and get them out of play. Then it is a matter of getting the feed roller pressure right, the chipbreakers set, and the pressure bar exactly at the arc of the knives so the finished board just slips under it enough to keep moving. It's all kind of a dance. Dave

[Patrick Walsh]

Wow mark.

I just knew I could count on you to come save the day.

And I knew it had to be super simple as there is only so much going on under the hood of a planer.

I also had the intuition that I just needed to go all the way to begging and start again. I knew getting the rollers out of the way so I could check the tables for flat was the first step. What I didn’t know was the next steps sequentially.

So now that I know that I have to go and figure out how to differentiate chip breakers from pressure bars and the corresponding points of adjustment. So far I’m only seeing the six points of adjustment I mentioned up thread. Those six points seem to adjust the feed rollers pressure in front of the cutter and behind. So far I’m not seeing pressure bars with independent points of adjustment. It’s seems to be all built into the adjustment of the rollers. But you know I bet I’m not looking hard enough.

Part of me to be honest is less than happy that I’m on day number one instead of working “building something” I have my head under a dam machine and the boss watching. But you know he did change the knives first thing this morning then show me a board with terrible snipe and say “we just deal as we have tried fixing it, you wanna give it a go be my guest”. I’m also starting to get the impression that this is just the way it is in most shops as it’s what I see and what I hear from others.

Non the less it would look better if I have something built come Friday. But you know I just do not have the patients to build nice stuff with machines that give constantly changing and unpredictable results. You can build nice stuff that way I guess but I kinda believe you can’t actually build nice stuff like that. Not as nice as you could if you weren’t forced to muck with a machine a few times a day and or constantly have to scrap a piece here and there. It’s a real pain to go back and make another depending not to mention a buzz kill.




How does that song go; "Start at the very beginning... it's a very good place to start"

Get the bed rollers out of play. Check the table is flat and clean, so, straight edge, Union jack, pattern, around the perimeter across the diagonals. then clean and stone it, to remove nicks and high spots.
Now you have a flat reference surface.
Now check with a block of wood under the cutter to see if your blades are all touching, check on both sides. Now you have a flat surface and a parallel cutting surface.
Now check your front and rear chipbreaker/ pressure bars are flat. If not remove them and lap them flat. Bevel the leading edge of the rear one, so the the board can slide under it and not jam into it.
Now you are ready to adjust it.
Set you chipbreaker/ pressure bar level with the bottom dead centre of the cutters with a block on the table.
Set the infeed roller a bit lower and the outfeed a bit lower still.
Clean and wax the table. tweak the pressure and heights settings.
Pressure bar setting is critical.

Some bed rollers are on cams, which moves their center axis forward or backward, when raised or lowered, if you have a feed roller over the top of the bed roller that can cause the wood lift up or down going into the cutterhead. Ideally the feed rollers should be inside of the bed rollers, so that they are always pushing the wood to the table as it enters the pressure bar and cutterhead.

[Darcy Warner]

No, not every planer will cut snipe free. Most industrial machines can be set for roughing, that's why the bed rolls are set high. I had a 24" Yates American that I let cut a snipe so I could run with less drag on the bed. I always trim at least 3" off the ends of rough sawn boards anyway, to remove any end checking. So no big deal to get a snipe.

That's the beauty of quick adjust bed rolls, quick adjust pressure bar, etc. on bigger machines.

[Mark Hennebury]

Patrick, the infeed and out feed pressure bar / feed roller should be set a couple of thou lower than the bottom dead center of the cutterhead You will have to play around with the height and pressure a bit. Think that if you dressed a board to 3/4" thick and ran it though a second time at the same setting, the infeed roller should still rise up on it and pull it through, the chipbreaker should still be pressing it down tight to the table so that nothing gets cut as it passes under the cuttehead, and the out feed pressure bar will still apply downpressure to the board as the board passes under it and then the outfeed roller should still grab it firmly and pull it through. Good luck. let us know how you make out.

[Kevin Jenness]

Again, here is a link to the manual content.powermatic.com › manuals › 1791267_man (http://content.powermatic.com/manuals/1791267_man.pdf). That will show which parts are which and how to adjust them, pages 12-15.

[Erik Loza]

The surest way to stop snipe from planer is use a helper to catch and run the stock end to end...

YUP! This is a challenge for us at trade shows. Not enough booth space for proper outfeed support + tons of spectators crowded around during demos. You have to hustle around to the outfeed side to help support the piece on the way out if it's anything but a small board.

Erik

[David Eisenhauer]

From Kevin's manual, pg 13 - "most planning problems are due to improper setting of the pressure bar" (or something akin to that anyway). I wonder if that statement can be taken as a good general statement or more specific to this particular machine?

[Darcy Warner]

From Kevin's manual, pg 13 - "most planning problems are due to improper setting of the pressure bar" (or something akin to that anyway). I wonder if that statement can be taken as a good general statement or more specific to this particular machine?

Its usually the culprit along with to low and to much pressure on outfeed roll.

[Matt Day]

First, relax.

Second, I hope you’ve looked through the manual that Kevin linked to?!

Third, call Powermatic if you need to.

[Mel Fulks]

I've always found that there are fewer feed problems with good steel. M2 or T1 or other. If you get a good knife and
compare it to a stock knife by trying to use them like a draw knife you will see there is much less resistance with the
better steel. Sometimes adjustments have been made to improve the poor feed of poor knives.

[joe milana]

Can m2 or t1 even be had anymore?

[Mel Fulks]

Sure , they were stopped for WW2 war equipment reasons. Then came back. Some sales people will occasionally say they can't get it.
So you might have to go to a different vendor. You can look at a just planed board and see if it has good steel. Even a
dull good knife will leave a some what shiny surface. The cheap stuff will show striations on even the very first board after
knife change. T1 did take a long time to come back.

[Roger Feeley]

Patrick, I had a problem with my PM15HH. The wood kept getting stuck. Finally, I got smart. The next time it happened, I clamped the stuck stock to the I feed table so I could lower the table all the way and see where the problem was. It turned out that the leading edge was just hitting the edge of the casting at the trailing side of the first infeed roller. Put another way, the stock passed the infeed roller and hung up wher the cast table resumed. That edge of the table was very sharp. Almost like a chisel.

I solved the problem by filing a little chamfer on the casting. Just a few thousandths will do it. I didn’t even remove the roller. That let me lower the roller to just a couple of thousandths above the cast table.

[David Eisenhauer]

Thanks Darcy.

[Patrick Walsh]

Long day

Had to move my Felder shaper out of my shop after work and get it on a pallet to be shipped tomorrow.

I did not screw with the planer today. I did take another look at it after reading the manual from Kevin, thanks Kevin and then from Darcy thank you also.

This machines has the pressure bar before the the cutter head ganged together with the pressure roll. The tolerance is set at the factory and it is what it is. I’ll get a picture tomorrow but there are springs that press the individual pawls down that make up the pressure bar before the cutter head. All I can figure is the machine is old and those spring are tired?

I have zero snipe on the outfeed side. And you know the outfeed side has independent adjustment of the pressure bar and the feed roller. So you know no wonder I can get that cutting right.

My thought is without adjustability in front of the cutter head I’m probably just banging my head off the wall?

[Darcy Warner]

Chip breaker, whole different function.

[Patrick Walsh]

Sorry u r correct the chip breaker is set at the factory and adjusts with and in unison with the infeed roller..

Same problem though as I can only adjust the Infeed roll. And whatever I do to it I do tovthe chipbreaker..

[Jeff Duncan]

This is probably a silly thought, but it just popped in my head so what the heck..... have you checked to make sure the knives are at the correct height for the machine? I imagine if they're off what they're supposed to be by a fair amount they'll cause some problems?

I'm lucky enough to own a machine that was set at the factory and needs no adjustments. There's even a sticker in side the hood that says basically, don't even think about trying to adjust. Just set the knives, grind them to height and go:D

good luck,
JeffD

[Mark Hennebury]

Every machine can be adjusted......one way or another. Just depends how far you want to go.


Sorry u r correct the chip breaker is set at the factory and adjusts with and in unison with the infeed roller..

Same problem though as I can only adjust the Infeed roll. And whatever I do to it I do tovthe chipbreaker..

[Patrick Walsh]

This one is gonna depend on how far the boss is willing to let me take it.

I have a feeling he is pretty tickled with 3-4 of snipe on the leading edge only.

Me not so much but it’s not the worst thing.

He is talking about swapping the head for a Byrd head. Let’s not get into that as he is the boss.

Point is further adjustments might as well wait till the head is swapped. At this point I’ll go all out.


Every machine can be adjusted......one way or another. Just depends how far you want to go.

[Mark Hennebury]

Patrick, I feel for you. I have worked in a few shops. being new in a shop and being stopped dead in your tracks, because you can't just cut a piece of wood until you fix the saw to cut square or the planer to cut without snipe. Good luck.



This one is gonna depend on how far the boss is willing to let me take it.

I have a feeling he is pretty tickled with 3-4 of snipe on the leading edge only.

Me not so much but it’s not the worst thing.

He is talking about swapping the head for a Byrd head. Let’s not get into that as he is the boss.

Point is further adjustments might as well wait till the head is swapped. At this point I’ll go all out.

[Patrick Walsh]

Mark,

I consider myself still in my infancy regarding my career as a woodworker at 42. I wonder what I’ll be doing and what I’ll think looking back in another 30 years. Where will I be and what will I be doing. And how important will all these experiences be or not be.

It’s interesting ones perspective as the boss vrs a maker and need vrs want so forth and so on. As a maker to do our best work and thus to show the boss what we can really do and in a timely manner we as makers need tools we can rely on. The boss on the other hand it seems doesn’t “not care” but sees things from a different or multi faceted perspective as I suppose they have to as they hare trying to provide a product they can both hang their hat on and keep the lights on. That’s hard to do “generally” when serving the masses or general public and think you can turn a profit provided the very very best at all times as guys like you and I live by in our own work.

A for instance. My old boss was generally ok about buying us what we needed. But in getting him there I can identify that i would tell him and ask him for say a new planer. Explain why and he would see my/our perspective but also explain his perspective and pretty much tell you every other shop in the world deals with the same crap and what it should be good enough. He wants to get you the new plainer knowing it wouldn’t hurt and in some ways would help but not actually agreeing to the value of a new machine vrs savings in man hours and increased quality of work. As a result of all this jibber jabber he would come in with something like a larger edge sander but with the platens so screwed you’d have to spend a week scraping them and know how ‘;so it never happens and you have a machine that puts radius on door edges. Or better yet is supposed to ossilate but the bar that connects to the motor is not there and he didn’t notice as he doesn’t know. Or a shaper missing its largest ring and its key for forward reverse. And what can you do as this persons perspective is they are trying to meet you request the best they can and I am sure they are. But for a guy like you I and a few other round here they just don’t get what they don’t get and honestly I don’t think a guy that isn’t down there making stuff all day and with the expectation that on a the best is actually the best and that there is only one best and that’s perfection. And I’m sure if they were to read this they would say the same about us and or me, that we just don’t get it considering all they need to consider. As at the end of the day and after all my drivel we both are kinda right and hence the circle goes round and round.

But you know as a maker and employee it’s stupid annoying. Annoying enough that even a guy that understands the value of working for someone day dreams about self employment. But you know for me like many makers of things I keep to myself, like really to myself. Other than those I leave my house to work for nobody knows who I am other than family and it’s honestly how I like it. Even family other than a couple I’m all set and way more happy any day of the week in my shop or with the dog.

Still it wrecks my head that I always have a way nicer shop of my own than that of whom I work for. And that I spend huge money for it when I make no or little money off it. When I weigh that against a boss that does not see the value in good tools I just don’t get it. Sure make me think but I have no line on work of my own. And you know I know it’s not easy and that there so much more to it than making stuff. Lots of kissing ass biting your tongue and probably passing off loads of crap work.

What are you gonna do. Seems more easy to me to just fix the dam machine best you can then learn to employ the work arounds as they may be the best you can, do your 8 hrs and go home. It’s sad I get to do my best work at home on my own time and that most will never really have any idea what I am capable of. But you know the dam almighty dollar always wins.

Who is that guy that got dropped off in Alaska at like 55-60 with like a axe and didn’t leave till he was like 90. Maybe that’s my answer?

But honestly the new job seems like it will be good. And who knows in time maybe the boss will see things more as I do. Right now I’m not gonna rock the boat. I sure will be bummed if in 30 years I look back and see wasted potential as I just did what paid as apposed to what I knew I was capable of and knew I could feel good about.


Patrick, I feel for you. I have worked in a few shops. being new in a shop and being stopped dead in your tracks, because you can't just cut a piece of wood until you fix the saw to cut square or the planer to cut without snipe. Good luck.

[Darcy Warner]

I believe this is correct, I didn't bother looking at the manual.

423247

[Darcy Warner]

Just added more scribbles.

423249

[Mark Hennebury]

Patrick, the fact that you worry about his stuff tells me lots about you. I have been fired from a few jobs, much as it's not nice, i am okay with it. I can work in my shop and get by. The problem is when you can't afford to lose your job and you start doing things that you don't want to do. When your job becomes keeping your job, not doing it. You only get one shot at life, find the right balance for you.




Mark,

I consider myself still in my infancy regarding my career as a woodworker at 42. I wonder what I’ll be doing and what I’ll think looking back in another 30 years. Where will I be and what will I be doing. And how important will all these experiences be or not be.

It’s interesting ones perspective as the boss vrs a maker and need vrs want so forth and so on. As a maker to do our best work and thus to show the boss what we can really do and in a timely manner we as makers need tools we can rely on. The boss on the other hand it seems doesn’t “not care” but sees things from a different or multi faceted perspective as I suppose they have to as they hare trying to provide a product they can both hang their hat on and keep the lights on. That’s hard to do “generally” when serving the masses or general public and think you can turn a profit provided the very very best at all times as guys like you and I live by in our own work.

But you know as a maker and employee it’s stupid annoying. Annoying enough that even a guy that understands the value of working for someone day dreams about self employment. But you know for me like many makers of things I keep to myself, like really to myself. Other than those I leave my house to work for nobody knows who I am other than family and it’s honestly how I like it. Even family other than a couple I’m all set and way more happy any day of the week in my shop or with the dog.

Still it wrecks my head that I always have a way nicer shop of my own than that of whom I work for. And that I spend huge money for it when I make no or little money off it. When I weigh that against a boss that does not see the value in good tools I just don’t get it. Sure make me think but I have no line on work of my own. And you know I know it’s not easy and that there so much more to it than making stuff. Lots of kissing ass biting your tongue and probably passing off loads of crap work.

What are you gonna do. Seems more easy to me to just fix the dam machine best you can then learn to employ the work arounds as they may be the best you can, do your 8 hrs and go home. It’s sad I get to do my best work at home on my own time and that most will never really have any idea what I am capable of. But you know the dam almighty dollar always wins.

Who is that guy that got dropped off in Alaska at like 55-60 with like a axe and didn’t leave till he was like 90. Maybe that’s my answer?

But honestly the new job seems like it will be good. And who knows in time maybe the boss will see things more as I do. Right now I’m not gonna rock the boat. I sure will be bummed if in 30 years I look back and see wasted potential as I just did what paid as apposed to what I knew I was capable of and knew I could feel good about.

[Patrick Walsh]

You got it Darcy.

Chip breaker is factory set. I did read the manual but only after I decided I was done being the chip breaker can’t be adjusted and it’s my opinion the springs are tired as no matter the adjustments I make to the pressure roll the leading edge snipe persists.

Then there is the fact that the boss told me he switched out and or added to the machine something for quick change knives. When he did it changed the height of the cutterhead to the chip breaker and the infeed roll and well everything. When I got my hands on the machine he had placed shims under the Allen nuts you indicate as the factory set 1/32 chip breaker. Not the pivot point obviously as you couldn’t do that if you wanted to. He said he put it to whatever the factory suggested based on the machine having it’s factory head in it.

Well I took them out and things got a lot better. But still not even close to perfect. Hence me deciding the springs are tired on the chip breaker. I say so much as it’s clear that as the board feeds in its limiting into the cutter head as apposed to staying tight to the table. I have set the “infeed” feed roller connected to the chip breakers as low as it will go and still that’s not enough to keep the board from lifting slightly into the cluttered before it exits the cutterhead and gets to the pressure bar and then outfeed pressure roll.

Can’t figure out anything based on all that but tired springs and a factory setting and those springs need to be replaced.

Buy you know I know I only know enough to be dangerous. But if I don’t insist on learning I’ll never know. And I got lots more years left to work and I’m sure as hell not about to let a planer best me up everytime I Nee to go get a new job. I’m just gonna learn how to fix them. Seems much more easy than suffering at a poorly functioning machine or thinking anyone else will give a dam.

[Patrick Walsh]

I hope I will find that right balance in this shop. As woodworkers I can say this “most of us are characters” not always in the same ways but characters non the less. Point is I have a sense If I can find a way to communicate effectively “you know adapt individually to whomever you are dealing with and present a way they can receive maybe I’ll do ok addressing some of these things as a maker. Maybe that’s wishful thinking?

But that facts are I do care Mark as you can tell. And you know I can’t help it I don’t know how not to. I care about my stuff, I care about others stuff, I care about being honest, i care about a honestly hard days work. If I encounter it in the course of a day I’m gonna care as of I gotta do it I’m gonna care.

Sadly i think most find just the thought of so much caring exhausting and wouldn’t even consider wanting to attempt so much caring as they know they would fail. And you know I fail and it hurts when I do but not enough to not always try and do my best.

Maybe in 30mill also be able to find a way to get by in my own shop my own way doing what I like. For now though this is my journey and being a maker is very very important to me. The way I see it this is all the price of admission. It’s all kinda annoying as hell but you know what I’m alive, I’m healthy as far as I know, I’m not starving “I have been” I have a home and a couple people that love and like me. So I’d say that success.

Buy]t you know what, to date my biggest job is working to keep my job and yet again you have a point. You have made such points to me once or twice before. It it is only looking back hearing the ring of your “internet voice in my head” that I realize that guy said something that will really have a impact on my thinking and I’ll remeber it 10-20-e0myears later long after I have or have not applied such to my life.

Anyway I’m a sap but thanks. We all affect each other one way or another good or bad like it or not. At least I think so. So thanks for opening your mouth and telling me what you think. I guy like me might think I’m the Im the only maniac woodworker that has high expectations lol.

Sadly I do have to have a job. So I guess for now that means working at keeping my job or who knows maybe I have just stumbled into that balance. I gotta at least give this a chance. It’s only the end of day number three and honestly the company I am keeping “boss and one co worker” seem very good. But again it’s week one and I’ll be the first to say you think you know somebody and like 10-20 years later you figure out you never really knew them. But again it’s week one and this conversation is inspired by a bunch of guys with short patients for crap machines and a love everything done righ made well from a time when people still did that.

The good news is all the crap with the machines just makes me want to iron it all that much more. It sure doesn’t inspire any sense of tossing in the hat. I’ll keep at it with my shop one machine at a time. Bring them back the way you and I know and expect and at some point you know I’ll have a perfect shop to get all pissed about when I get in my overpriced van to go make stuff headache inducing crap. But you know it will make me a better maker. If I can make really nice on a crap machine is my mentality right now. Gotta turn a negative into a positive right.


QUOTE=Mark Hennebury;2980860]Patrick, the fact that you worry about his stuff tells me lots about you. I have been fired from a few jobs, much as it's not nice, i am okay with it. I can work in my shop and get by. The problem is when you can't afford to lose your job and you start doing things that you don't want to do. When your job becomes keeping your job, not doing it. You only get one shot at life, find the right balance for you.[/QUOTE]

[Matt Day]

Maybe you should be a writer? J/k

[peter gagliardi]

Its unlikely the springs are tired, that seems like a last resort. The machine looks only a few years old. Maybe its engineered wrong, but...
Regarding quality of tools to work with- best way to control the quality of tools you get to work with is to work for yourself.
You have seen firsthand however how quick money goes in your own shop.
Add lights, add rent, add insurance, and all other overhead, wages+ overtime and running a small 3-5 man shop gets insanely expensive.
Most places if the employees are making a good wage, the owner probably is not...

[Timothy McMahon]

I have this same machine with the factory installed helical head that is about a year old. The machine ran well from the factory, but still had minor snipe on the trailing end that did not bother me as was upgrading from a lunchbox planer that had much worse.

After reading this thread I pulled out my Oneway gauge and compared the settings to what is in the manual. The settings for the rollers and pressure bar were much closer to the same height as the cutterhead than what the manual specifies. I adjusted everything to what is specified and it made the snipe much worse and on both ends of the board. I will spend more time on this and report back on what worked to get the machine dialed in.

[Patrick Walsh]

I’m cutting my teeth on SMC.

If this Woodworking thing fails and I can figure out how to spell and form a proper sentence maybe ill give it a try;)


Maybe you should be a writer? J/k

[Patrick Walsh]

Peter,

I’m with you 100%, from what I have seen thus far most small business Woodworking or in the trades are either a labor of love, the option for a a myriad of reasons for said individual and pretty much destined to fail if working responsible hours and making a living comparable to your peers that make much more and work much less.

I am not intending to come across as ungrateful but I understand it might seem that way. From all angles I get the small business thing. I have been working for small business within the trades since I was 16 and I’m now 42. Pretty much all of them are the same story.

I grateful for the good I take from each position as they last.

Yeah the bad is annoying but there would be bad anywhere doing anything.

Me working for myself does not work. As I said nobody in the world knows who I am and what I do. So long as I get up everyday and go work for someone else that’s never gonna change much. Like you I’m up and out of the house 6 ish working by 7 and not home till 6 and that’s this new job working a measly 40hrs a week.

Doesn’t leave much room for much else. Take care of the house, grocery shop do the laundry and what else is left. Again not a complaint but you know who knows maybe at some point I do work my way into having my own shop doing the work I want. I kinda doubt it though being I haven’t done it yet. I think even most small buisness the boss doesn’t really work in the shop or in the field. The boss is working to get work and keep everyone happy.


Its unlikely the springs are tired, that seems like a last resort. The machine looks only a few years old. Maybe its engineered wrong, but...
Regarding quality of tools to work with- best way to control the quality of tools you get to work with is to work for yourself.
You have seen firsthand however how quick money goes in your own shop.
Add lights, add rent, add insurance, and all other overhead, wages+ overtime and running a small 3-5 man shop gets insanely expensive.
Most places if the employees are making a good wage, the owner probably is not...

[Mike Kees]

Patrick try setting the bed rollers about 3-5 thousands above the bed and see if that makes any difference. I just set up a new to me planer and found a drawing on OWWM of a planer in cross section that has basic settings for bed rollers,chipbreaker,infeed and outfeed rollers and pressure bar. Since my machine had no manual I used these settings,my machine works excellent.I think it was Bob Vaughn who drew the planer cross section and provided the settings.

[Timothy McMahon]

I spent more time with the planer this evening. So far I have the bed rollers set at the lowest setting where they are 0.001" or 0.002" below the bed.

The infeed roller is a segmented roller and found the segments do not always line up. The lowest ones are set at 0.032" below the cutting arc. The highest ones are about 0.02" below the cutterhead.

The manual says the chipbreaker is factory adjusted to be even with the bottom of the cutting arc. However, I found it is more in line with the infeed roller. There does not appear to be an easy way to adjust this, so I let it alone while I tried other adjustments as does not appear to directly cause any problems.

The pressure bar seems to be where the largest issue is. The manual specifies it should be set 0.008" above the cutterhead. When I tested this setting, there was much worse snipe than where it was from the factory setting at about 0.002" above the cutterhead. I spent considerable time adjusting between the 0.008" and 0.002" that is on the diagram referenced in previous posts. Unfortunately this still left bad snipe. I adjusted the pressure bar to be 0.002" below the cutterhead and seem to get considerable less snipe, about 0.01" from thinnest to thickest part of test piece. Logically, I would think the snipe occurs when the board lifts up into the cutterhead and having the pressure bar at same level as cutterhead would prevent that from happening.

The outfeed rollers are set at the specified 0.032" below the cutterhead. I may see what happens if these are lowered another 0.001".

I will spend more time tomorrow to see if further fine tuning the pressure bar can reduce the snipe further. I also feel the infeed roller may be set slightly too low and put too much pressure on the board when it first enters the machine.

While the machine is not an old Oliver, Whitney, etc, it is still a solid machine that with proper care should still be serviceable in a moderate production environment for many years. Is just a tedious process that requires patience while learning optimal settings for the machine.

[Kevin Jenness]

Timothy,

The settings in your manual seem a bit unusual. Typically, the chipbreaker is set below the cutting circle so that there is always some down pressure on the stock, and the pressure bar is set at the cutting circle, or slightly below in case of a spring-loaded bar. If the pressure bar is higher than the cutting circle it cannot hold down the stock as it exits the machine.

On my old Powermatic 160 the pressure bar is fixed with no spring and the height adjustment is a bit finicky. I actually fine-tune it while feeding stock through- too low and the feed stalls, too high and chatter ensues, just right and Papa Bear is happy. With a spring-loaded bar as on your machine it would seem that the bar should be a bit lower. It may be that you need to increase the spring pressure.

Have you looked at the manual I linked to above? content.powermatic.com › manuals › 1791267_man (http://content.powermatic.com/manuals/1791267_man.pdf) Is that the same as your machine?

[Mark Hennebury]

Forget the feed rollers and bed rollers for a minute, and think about it this way:

If you set the machine to cut a .750" and run a piece of lumber that is already .750" through the planer.

If you have the chipbreaker and pressure bar set higher say .752" they will not touch the wood at all and will allow the wood to lift into the cutterhead.
If you set them even with the cuttehead at .750" they will prevent the wood from lifting up, but will not be pressing down on the wood at all. And could allow the wood to lift into the cutterhead if the board is not fully supported.
If you set the chipbreaker and pressure bar at 0.748" they will apply down pressure to the wood, pressing it tight to the table.
Of course you can only set them correctly if your table is flat and your chipbreaker and presssure bar contact edges are flat,

So you need to set the chipbreaker and pressure bar below the cutting circle for them to work, how much below; you tinker around and find out what works best.

[Timothy McMahon]

Kevin, it is the same machine. I will definitely double check that was I reading the correct section of the manual and remembering the values it was providing. Maybe different version? The pressure bar is spring-loaded and did not make sense that it would be above the cutter.

[Timothy McMahon]

The latest version of the manual seems to be incorrect. https://content.powermatic.com/assets/manuals/1791261_man_EN.pdf

[David Kumm]

I don't know about this machine or manual but some literature references some measurement from the head and some from the knives. Chipbreakers might be set slightly above the knives but below the head. Depending on the springs, they might even be set below the knives. Dave

[Patrick Walsh]

Been busy with the new job and life in general.

An update to those curious and whom offered a helping hand.

I have the machine operating cutting absolutely zero snipe at this point. I will admit that once the workpiece travels past the infeed roll and cutterhead I do have to slightly persuade it out of the machine. Clearly more adjusting and a better understanding of adjusting a planer is needed but I’m kinda tickled pink I got the machine cutting literally no snipe.

When I say none I mean none.

How did I do it. More pressure on the outfeed roll and I raised the outfeed pressure bar slightly. I don’t know if that’s how it is supposed to work but it worked for me.

So thanks for the help guys as the added and various input, perspective and Knowledge allowed me to find my way through this. Well that and just refusing to accept a crap cut and continually screwing with the adjustments.

424076

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[Mark Hennebury]

There are two kinds of people..... You are are the type that is driven to fix a problem. Congratulations Patrick.

[Darcy Warner]

Adjustments are a base/guideline I start there and tweak adjustments to suit the machine.

[Patrick Walsh]

Adjustments are a base/guideline I start there and tweak adjustments to suit the machine.

Darcy I tried a calling this last Friday.

You have any shapers around I’d be interested in availible ASAP.

You know t110.120-130

[Patrick Walsh]

Mark,

You always have a way of saying things to me that make me feel good about myself.

I like that about you ;)

Honestly sometimes I think my instance to fix things and not settle is viewed more as a fault by the general population than asset. It works for me other than it doesn’t work for most lol..


There are two kinds of people..... You are are the type that is driven to fix a problem. Congratulations Patrick.