Do You Mill Your Own Lumber?

[Mike Goetzke]

About 8 years ago I remodeled our kitchen. It was a big job with a huge island. Used 500-600 BF of Euro steamed beach. I justified purchasing a 15" planer and 8" jointer for this project. I actually enjoyed milling my own lumber especially knowing everything was to the same size. Since the big kitchen project I have done smaller projects and had the opportunity to use the jointer/planer on rough sawn lumber I picked up on lumber runs.

Past couple weeks I have been working with my son on a couple of cabinets for him. We had to mill some lumber and it really hit me the amount of time it took even with a helper to mill the lumber (ha, maybe because I want his cabinets out of my garage/shop and in his basement).

So I'm contemplating selling my jointer and planer (probably jointer first) because of:



Added time to a project.
Space the tools take up.
The pain to take the tools out and put them away in a small garage/shop (especially the jointer).
For some reason lack of lumber runs.
Have found out local hardwood supplier will join/plane for reasonable price (although his wood is more expensive than I got on lumber run deals).
Bought a nice lathe about 6 years ago and don't find enough time to turn because of all the flat work projects I have.


Anyone else go through the same thing? Will I regret getting rid of them?

Thanks,
Mike

[Richard Coers]

I buy all my hardwoods, hit of miss planed to 15/16" thick. I insist on surfacing it myself to get high quality flat and straight stock.

[Mike Henderson]

You will absolutely regret getting rid of them. I couldn't work without a jointer and a planer and I buy kiln dried wood surfaced 3 sides. No matter what you purchase, you get stuff that's not perfect and a jointer and planer will get you there. Also, sometimes you want your wood a size that you don't have.

I'd even add a drum sander to the "needed" shop tools for preparing wood. Sometimes the planer will cause tearout and the drum sander saves the day to get it to the final dimension without divots in the surface.

Mike

[The alternative is to prepare your stock by hand but that's a lot of work and time. No fun in my book.]

[Charles Taylor]

My local hardwood supplier, a very nice family operation, skip planes its lumber. That's nice, but there's more work for me to do to get uniform thickness, especially if 3/4-7/8" isn't my target thickness, and to get a nice surface. My other option would be the project lumber from the big box, which is limited in species, available only in 3/4" thickness, overpriced, and very likely not straight and flat.

I have two jointers and two planers, which in my case is an excess, but reducing to zero isn't an option for the work I like to do.

Edit: I agree with Mike on the value of a drum sander, even though I don't get along with mine very well.

[johnny means]

I wouldn't ever want someone else determining how my lumber was milled. Not being able to mill my own would drastically reduce the quality of my work.

[Tim M Tuttle]

I enjoy the milling process and there is nowhere around here to get good, milled lumber that is actually straight and true. Most of the dealers just skip plane which is pointless IMO. I buy everything rough. Yeah, it takes longer but I feel like I get much better quality.

[ChrisA Edwards]

Yes, when possible I buy rough sawn and mill it to size on my J/P.

Yes, it can be tedious, but i consider it part of the process.

If you are short on space, sell both machines and get a Jointer/Planer combo. That's what I did, moved from a 6" Jet Jointer and Dewalt 735 to a Hammer A3-31. Different machine on all levels, but it gave me some space back.

[Zachary Hoyt]

When I saw the title I thought you were talking about milling logs into boards. I do that too, but a lot of the wood I use for my gainful employment is bought in because I don't have all of the trees that I need growing here (curly maple, walnut, African mahogany, cherry etc). I would never want to be without a jointer and planer and drum sander, there are a lot of times that I need them for things other than initial lumber preparation, and even then I like to be able to buy cheaper wood and have the flexibility to make it whatever thickness I need, and then smooth and flatten it again.
Zach

[Ben Rivel]

I buy all my solid wood S3S and even if only for thickness uniformity between boards when building a project Id keep the planer. Since my unit is a combo jointer/planer, that means I keep both! ;)

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Mike, I thought you meant converting trees into boards, and yes I do that.

I then joint and plane it to desired dimensions.

I bought a Hammer A3-31 Jointer/Planer about 12 years ago, great machine, saves space.

I couldn't imagine not having a jointer and planer...............Rod.

[Mike Goetzke]

Yes, when possible I buy rough sawn and mill it to size on my J/P.

Yes, it can be tedious, but i consider it part of the process.

If you are short on space, sell both machines and get a Jointer/Planer combo. That's what I did, moved from a 6" Jet Jointer and Dewalt 735 to a Hammer A3-31. Different machine on all levels, but it gave me some space back.

As a tool "junkie" this may be the ticket!

[Brian Tymchak]

I buy rough sawn exclusively now and do all the milling myself. I was having to mill the s2s I was buying anyway. And the 8/4 rough sawn I get is actally 2 1/8" - 2 1/4" vs the s2s 8/4 @ 1 13/16" which gives me more flexibility and some cost savings as the rough sawn is cheaper than the s2s per bf.

[Mark Bolton]

I think the question is really dependant on the project. There is no way in the world other than for extremely high end boutique/furniture work, you can cost effectively mill from rough with a commodity planer and jointer. Its just not possible. Our mill runs a massive double sided planer with on-board sharpening, and SLR and there is simply no way I could handle the chips and off falls alone from dead rough for what they charge to surface. Your talking drums and drums and drums of chips for a thousand feet of material. Forget about the knives and the labor.

If your worried about being able to have some room to play with have them skip it to 15/16 or 7/8 and straight line it and at least your 2/3 of the way there.

If your dealing with something super custom, thick, etc, thats one thing. But for commodity 4/4 5/4 6/4 8/4 its just a waste of time.

We get packs of 4/4 FAS Cherry in at 13/16" and boards that are clear for 12-14', 12"-20" wide, dead clear, clean straight to the saw, and often times can skip the wide belt they are so smooth. Hard maple that goes straight to drawer boxes.

Surfacing material (my jointer has 3" of crap stacked on it and hasnt been plugged in for years) is a nightmare.

[Robert Engel]

Its all dependent on the type of work you're doing and what you're expectations are for the lumber. Personally, I could never imagine a ww'ing shop without either machine.

For me, surfaced kiln dried lumber has several definite negatives. This may be simply related to what's on hand on the supplier, but more than once a nice straight board has moved or twisted unexpectedly while sitting in stickers in my shop. I suspect this is due to some case hardening/lack of destressing. In my work, I want some room left for final surfacing and sanding. Unless you have a perfectly flat, uncupped board there is no room for jointing. Therefore, you have to pick through to pile and one of my suppliers has stopped letting customers to this they have to take what is picked.

Yes it does take a lot of the work out of it if all you're building is cabinets, but if you're building furniture, IMO air dried rough lumber is the best.

[Gordon Stump]

When I was doing commission work I bought hardwood from an Amish sawmill and had them bring it over to an Amish Millwork company. They flattened, planned, joined 1 edge and sanded to 120. And they were cheap. But the sawmill burned down. Now I do my own milling. I think many mills do not flatten but run both sides through a planner.

I rely on my 8 inch joiner and 15" planner with a Wixey readout and enjoy milling my own stuff.

[Mark Bolton]

IMO air dried rough lumber is the best.

Yeek. Til you get sued for some bug infestation that either was or wasnt your fault. There is zero non KD material allowed in the shop. Oak is the dead worst. You could have a bunk of AD oak (any flavor) in your shop and open the overhead doors on a sunny day and your wood rack can be infested in a millisecond.

While there is always the warning for reinfestation even after KD it is so rare no one can even state a case of it.

AD lumber is very very very dangerous if your selling your work.

[Patrick Kane]

Like Zach, I also thought we were talking about logs to lumber. That I probably will never do. I have purchased enough bulk buys of lumber to know i hate moving thousands of boardfeet by hand.

Depending on the amount of wood you process a year, i think those tools pay for themselves pretty quickly. Not only by the essential tasks they perform during the build process, but they literally allow you to buy material 33%+ off. Without them, you need to buy S3S, which is usually $1-2 extra per board foot. For some species, that is almost doubling the cost of the product. It's not unusual for me to buy a few thousand boardfeet each year, so after 3ish years my jointer and planer paid for themselves. Not to mention, the S3S lumber ive seen is uniform thickness, but not straight or flat enough for my standards.

[Mark Bolton]

Like Zach, I also thought we were talking about logs to lumber. That I probably will never do. I have purchased enough bulk buys of lumber to know i hate moving thousands of boardfeet by hand.

Depending on the amount of wood you process a year, i think those tools pay for themselves pretty quickly. Not only by the essential tasks they perform during the build process, but they literally allow you to buy material 33%+ off. Without them, you need to buy S3S, which is usually $1-2 extra per board foot. For some species, that is almost doubling the cost of the product. It's not unusual for me to buy a few thousand boardfeet each year, so after 3ish years my jointer and planer paid for themselves. Not to mention, the S3S lumber ive seen is uniform thickness, but not straight or flat enough for my standards.

Are you factoring in labor, knife sharpening, hauling chips? or just the cost of the machine?

We pay $130/MBF for S2S SLR1E. (thirteen cents a board foot). There is no chips to haul, no knives to sharpen, no boards with long pounded down knicks from an errant piece of grit that wipes out a knife, no straight line drops to handle.

Id imagine we would be well in excess of 50MBF, and probably more like 100MBF before we would ever make a double sided planer, good SLR, grinder, chip handling, pay for itself.

[Jim Becker]

When you said "milling", I also thought you meant slicing and dicing logs. :) :D

Yes, I generally prepare all my material from rough sawn or skip planed material. It's more economical to buy rough and lightly skip planed lumber and by jointing it flat and thicknessing myself, I have absolute control of things like grain match, figure and color, thickness, etc. I'm a firm believer that selecting the material is the very first step in the finishing process and doing a good job there can take a project from "that's nice" to "wow!". I also prefer to work in the thicknesses that are appropriate for my project, not the thicknesses that are on the rack at some supplier. Proportion is everything sometimes. (I've moved to metric, too) And having someone else joint/plane for you will almost never result in the same quality you will get with your own tools if you become skilled at the task, despite the time it takes to do it.

That said, if you do basic projects that can work with commonly available thicknesses and "quality of flat" you might get from a supplier, there's no harm in simplifying your life.

If it makes you feel any better...I've barely touched my lathe in something like 8 years. I'd not give it up as it's a very capable machine for when I want or need it and I wouldn't get close to it's value in resale. (Stubby 750) I'm hoping to get back to turning a little going forward, even if it's small things for other kinds of projects.

[Larry Edgerton]

I wouldn't ever want someone else determining how my lumber was milled. Not being able to mill my own would drastically reduce the quality of my work.


What he said.......

[Matt Day]

No way would I sell my planer and jointer. It’s the first step of EVERYTHING. I mill my lumber from the sawmill, and I’d mill wood from the big box store too if I ever bought it because it’s rarely flat.

[Patrick Kane]

Are you factoring in labor, knife sharpening, hauling chips? or just the cost of the machine?

We pay $130/MBF for S2S SLR1E. (thirteen cents a board foot). There is no chips to haul, no knives to sharpen, no boards with long pounded down knicks from an errant piece of grit that wipes out a knife, no straight line drops to handle.

Id imagine we would be well in excess of 50MBF, and probably more like 100MBF before we would ever make a double sided planer, good SLR, grinder, chip handling, pay for itself.


Mark, we are dealing with drastically different pricing. You are paying 1/10th the price that has been quoted to me in the past for milling services. On top of that, i looked at surfaced options off the rack in the past, and they are almost double the cost of rough material. Not to mention they have sat on a rack for months, which caused them to move more than i would accept for my projects.

Now, IF i had access to the same service pricing you do, then i would be hard pressed in some situations. I dont do as much work now, but i used to make a lot of table tops, islands, counters, shelves, bars, etc. Basically, i used to joint, plane, and glue a lot of material. At the time, milling was probably 30-40% of my labor in a project, and as we all know, it can be laborious. Schlepping around long and wide 8/4 for 8 hours a day is best avoided. I would have happily paid $0.13 a board foot for S2S let alone S3S. That kind of work doesnt need dead nuts flat/straight lumber. I dont think i would ever build furniture from previously surfaced material. Im just very anal about stuff being right on those projects.

Correct, my statement did not include wear and tear on knives or electricity usage. However, i havent gone through a set of carbide inserts yet, so that is included in the initial machine investment. Also, somehow my residential waste management hasnt refused my chip disposal yet. Im waiting for that day, because there have been trash days where i have 200+ gallons of sawdust sitting at the curb. Helps to give those gents a cash tip every christmas.

[Lee Schierer]

I have two lumber places near me that sell kiln dried hardwoods for a fraction of what the borgs want for poorer quality material. It is all dimensional lumber and I've never had a quality issue. I do have a lunch box planer and a jointer when I need special thicknesses. One place will even let me cherry pick the highly figured pieces because his primary customers (contractors) want the vanilla grain boards.

[Randy Heinemann]

Probably everyone has said this, but I wouldn't recommend selling them, especially since you have been using them for awhile and are used to getting what you want from hardwood. With a jointer (especially an 8" jointer) you can flatten most boards on one side and then use your planer to get them to exactly the thickness you want or need for your project. I've used a 13" planer for over 10 years and a jointer for the past 35+ years. I upgrade to an 8" helical head jointer about 6 years ago and it changed my whole process. Once you've owned a jointer and planer, you won't be satisfied with what you buy and get processed at the lumber yard.

[Steve Demuth]

Having a planer and jointer made woodworking way more interesting and fun for me. I know buy rough sawn almost exclusively when purchasing from suppliers, and just as importantly, now saw stock from any promising trees I'm bucking for firewood (using a chainsaw mill - but I may spring for a bandsaw mill when I retire) , and take timber quality boles to a local sawyer. I might buy s2s lumber if I were doing a whole set of cabinets, but that's not likely.

[Bill Space]

My gut tells me you should dump them...

You have a list of reasons why not to keep them.

Can you list a number of reasons why you should keep them?

My impression from your post is that you really do not have the interest level/desire needed to keep and use them.

Personally, I have this problem of never wanting to get rid of ANY tool I have. But it sounds like we may differ in that respect.

Yes, there is a chance you may regret getting rid of them. Perhaps you should give them to your son...he could provide upkeep and a good home, and you could still use them if needed...:D

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I almost exclusively buy rough sawn lumber and mill it myself. I did this even when I had a lunchbox planer and portable table saw. Now I have a 12” jointer, 15” planer, and a Unisaw. I would never want to go back to being limited to S4S for my projects. Don’t sell your jointer and planer!

[Jim Andrew]

In a previous life, I built cabinets for homes I built. Would buy planed lumber for the face frames and other parts, and never was the lumber i bought nearly straight. When I cut a board, joint it flat and surface it to thickness, it is flat instead of curved, and the whole project comes out much better than just '"good enough".

[Andrew Seemann]

I'm technically a hobbiest, but I would say even for me the answer is not straight forward. I have a 15" planer and a crummy 6" jointer (it will turn into a larger one someday) and i would not get rid of them. That said, I don't like thickening and jointing lumber. To me is it a mind-numbing, annoying delay at the start of the project. I normally start off with rough lumber, but if I needed more than say 100 bdft, I would just have the lumber yard mill it S2S with a straight line rip. It cost something like $35 to do. I also would have them deliver, as it wasn't worth my time to sort and pick out that much lumber. Unfortunately that place was located on land worth about 5 times the value of the business and is no longer there:(

[Jim Becker]

The issue with having the lumber seller preparing the lumber is that few are going to actually flatten the stock properly before they thickness. It will all be the stated thickness, but that's very different than being flat. Some even just run double sided planers to create those " 3/4" thick boards " in the rack...and the scalloping is "awesome". This is likely true for the majority of S3S oe S4S material out there, IMHO.

[Leo Graywacz]

I usually get 250-350 bd ft of S Maple or Poplar. I almost always get it skip planed 15/16" and slr one edge. It gives me the option to various thicknesses and get a true flat, straight board to work with.

The planer my mill uses is a planer/jointer. The bottom of the planer has buttons on springs that support the wood without crushing it flat which causes the cup to remain. So I get a nice flat board (no cup) that is generally straight along the length (not wavy). From there a quick face and through the planer gets me the board I need.

For the most part 15/16" skip plane gets me clean boards on both sides. Of course there are some rough spots on some boards, others are totally clean. Plus they get to keep the majority of the chips and with the SLR edge I can just cut my strips right off the board with no edge jointing until I need to get to the clean size. Speeds things up a lot.

I worked in a shop that would get the wood planed to 13/16". We had a SLR saw so we would do that part. Thing would eventually get wide belt sanded to 3/4"

[Mark Bolton]

The issue with having the lumber seller preparing the lumber is that few are going to actually flatten the stock properly before they thickness. It will all be the stated thickness, but that's very different than being flat. Some even just run double sided planers to create those " 3/4" thick boards " in the rack...and the scalloping is "awesome". This is likely true for the majority of S3S oe S4S material out there, IMHO.

Same as Leo here. You need a better supplier. Never cupped and never seen scallop. I would definitely go the old route for something boutique but not for everything.

[Jon Endres]

My favorite part of a project is running a rough-sawn board through the first pass on the jointer or planer and seeing the treasure underneath (or trash, sometimes...). I will give up my jointer and planer when I have to quit woodworking due to age and/or health reasons.

[Robert Engel]

Yes, I generally prepare all my material from rough sawn or skip planed material. It's more economical to buy rough and lightly skip planed lumber and by jointing it flat and thicknessing myself, I have absolute control of things like grain match, figure and color, thickness, etc. I'm a firm believer that selecting the material is the very first step in the finishing process and doing a good job there can take a project from "that's nice" to "wow!". I also prefer to work in the thicknesses that are appropriate for my project, not the thicknesses that are on the rack at some supplier. Proportion is everything sometimes. (I've moved to metric, too) And having someone else joint/plane for you will almost never result in the same quality you will get with your own tools if you become skilled at the task, despite the time it takes to do it.

That said, if you do basic projects that can work with commonly available thicknesses and "quality of flat" you might get from a supplier, there's no harm in simplifying your life.

@Jim, I am of the same mindset. Skip planed is nice to see grain before breaking down.

Have you ever had an issue with insect damage later on? I've never seen that as an issue, but it was brought to my attention by Mark. I do treat with borate prior to stacking.

Haven't made the move to metric, but I have started using it for spacing.

[Jim Becker]

Robert, it's important to avoid active insects for sure...they can happen even with KD stock, although it's less likely at lower moisture levels.

For folks running large production shops, I can absolutely see the business case for buying lumber already surfaced to dimension and yes, I'm sure there are good suppliers for that particular thing. The majority of folks here at SMC are not in that category, however. Most have to either suffer through whatever is on the shelf at a retail outlet or buy rough and mill to their own specifications. I prefer the latter for the reasons I noted above.

[Jack Frederick]

I have a couple hardwood suppliers within a reasonable drive and they have a good selection, but based upon my expectation of the wood not being "just right" I think that not having the J/P would in a project or two drive you nuts. A vendor is simply not going to take the time and care you will require for your work.

[Frank Pratt]

The Home Depot stores around here carry very good quality fully milled hardwood (expensive as hell). I've bought small amounts in a pinch. Even though the milling is good quality, by the time it makes it into the customer's shop, it is no longer straight & flat.

So no, I would not give up my planer & jointer.

[Mark Bolton]

My favorite part of a project is running a rough-sawn board through the first pass on the jointer or planer and seeing the treasure underneath (or trash, sometimes...). I will give up my jointer and planer when I have to quit woodworking due to age and/or health reasons.

I dont think many people are advocating giving up a planer and jointer. These issues always meander between hobby and for-profit work and then all the sub categories below each one. Highly custom odd ball piece with figured/thick/whatever, as compared to building day to day work that one would hope to get out in a reasonable time, with reasonable effort, and in a for-profit situation, profitably.

Someone who just loves to surface lumber and either doesnt have to account for their time, or is making enough money on a project to do so, is one column. Then you have the people who even if its a hobby, need to get things done. If its a for-profit, no component of ones "favorite part" or what you like to do plays into the equation of simply losing money as long as you can turn out work that meets all the criteria needed.

I couldnt operate my shop without a planer even though its not a daily use item (thank heavens). I honestly rarely ever use a jointer but that is very much to do with work flow and equipment on hand. With all that, I could never negate the fact that surfacing rough material for day to day work would cost me 10-15x what it does to either bring material in to size, OR 1/8-3/16" over size with one straight edge. Getting out from under all those chips, the knives, the wear and tear on the body, and to still have enough material to do what ever we need to do is smart whether I had 100mil in the bank and were just playing around, or was trying to make every nickel count.

The chips alone from bring material in skipped that has to go to .750 are daunting.

Im a fan of spreadsheets. Put 5$ an hour on your shop surfacing material and run 500 board feet from dead rough to finished. Your boards may as well be gold bars when your done. Now apply what it really costs, and you far beyond gold bars. I envy those who think handling chips is more fun that making finished product.

[Mike Cutler]

I mill my own. It's equal parts that I enjoy the control of the material I can select, and I no longer have a reputable place near me that will do it.

Many years ago we had a local supplier that would go from rough, to S4S. You selected the rough boards from their inventory, and spec'd what you wanted for thickness. They even had a 50" wide belt sander for pre-sanding and panels. You could almost come out of the shop with a finish ready board. The boards were done in "runs" so that every one of them was identical in thickness,and dimension, if you spec'd it that way.
If they were still around, I'm not sure I'd take the time to dimension my own material any longer as a routine. I've become kind of lazy as I got older. :eek:
If you can get quality material milled to your spec's reliably. Go for it.
I would still keep the planer and jointer though. ;)

[Will Blick]

Wow, so glad to read these replies, as I concur with the general theme here.

My experience is, S3S or S4S lumber is crazy priced... from what I find, about $7 -$10 BF for Domestic Hardwoods. This is relatively low volume of course. If I only did one or two projects a year, I might consider this. But I do more. When I do buy these finished lumber when in a pinch, I sometimes experience what Jim mentioned, consistent thickness, but not flat! Or slight crook, creating more work and waste. Then, when the wood sits in my shop, it moves again, now I might have to deal with another movement issue.

When you consider, for fine pieces, the game plan is to dimension and thickness close to your final dimension, then let the wood sit for a several days min., then mill to your final dimension... do these milling houses do this? I think not. So, to get really well dimensioned pieces that you will further work with joinery, dovetails, etc, it will sit even longer before glued up. Lots can go wrong. Specially if you are not working on the project 8 hrs a day. So its best IMO to mill up the lumber right, and then finish it, once its completed.

So while I could still do projects without my jointer n planer, IMO, its adds too many quirks to the build process.

[kent wardecke]

The Home Depot stores around here carry very good quality fully milled hardwood (expensive as hell). I've bought small amounts in a pinch. Even though the milling is good quality, by the time it makes it into the customer's shop, it is no longer straight & flat.

So no, I would not give up my planer & jointer.

fwiw Menards has a better selection of species and better prices for s4s hardwood

[kent wardecke]

I get wood dirt cheap but it's a 4 hour drive to the mill. Before i ever start a project there's hours of straightening and planing boards. I tell my wife I'm going into the woodworking business when i retire from the fire department. Truth is i don't think i could make $12/hr
The catch is i love the process.
Selling equipment to free up 10 square feet of shop space is a little extreme.

[Frank Pratt]

fwiw Menards has a better selection of species and better prices for s4s hardwood

No Menards here in the Great White North. But as I said, I only get the odd board from HD so it's not a big deal. I do most all the milling myself.

[glenn bradley]

Wow, this really generated a lot of good discussion. I picture "milling" as applying to a log or to stock from the lumber yard. I have to admit I was brought up short by the initial question wondering "what, you're just going to try to make stuff out of un-milled material!?!" :D. I learned along time ago that nothing you buy and bring home is straight or true. I do buy mostly material that is at least skip planed. As others have mentioned S4S stock from the store or mill will not yield parts that proper acclimation and milling will. Maybe a combo machine is in your future.

[Ole Anderson]

I would say keep it. But how you receive your wood is dependent on your source. I have a mill that is 10 minutes away and they have a nominal small charge for planing. Their charge for sawing one straight edge is considerably more. I choose to get my 4/4 boards planed to 13/16" then I take off the final 1/16" on my lunchbox Delta planer. Otherwise I need a ton of passes and a ton of chips to deal with. And they have found the stray grain of sand with their blades. I cut the planed wood to project length, then joint one edge and rip to width.

[Jim Becker]

fwiw Menards has a better selection of species and better prices for s4s hardwood

Menards is only in a small geographic area compared to Home Depot and Lowes, unfortunately.

[Derek Cohen]

About 8 years ago I remodeled our kitchen. It was a big job with a huge island. Used 500-600 BF of Euro steamed beach. I justified purchasing a 15" planer and 8" jointer for this project. I actually enjoyed milling my own lumber especially knowing everything was to the same size. Since the big kitchen project I have done smaller projects and had the opportunity to use the jointer/planer on rough sawn lumber I picked up on lumber runs.

Past couple weeks I have been working with my son on a couple of cabinets for him. We had to mill some lumber and it really hit me the amount of time it took even with a helper to mill the lumber (ha, maybe because I want his cabinets out of my garage/shop and in his basement).

So I'm contemplating selling my jointer and planer (probably jointer first) because of:



Added time to a project.
Space the tools take up.
The pain to take the tools out and put them away in a small garage/shop (especially the jointer).
For some reason lack of lumber runs.
Have found out local hardwood supplier will join/plane for reasonable price (although his wood is more expensive than I got on lumber run deals).
Bought a nice lathe about 6 years ago and don't find enough time to turn because of all the flat work projects I have.


Anyone else go through the same thing? Will I regret getting rid of them?

Thanks,
Mike

Hi Mike

I am coming in late, but note that you have not responded to anyone here. In my opinion, you should get rid of your machines. The reason I write this is that you do not appear to be interested in the type of work that involves building furniture or anything where preparation of stock for furniture (or larger items). You appear to enjoy (?) building small items, and it is quite reasonable that these can either be prepared from processed boards (more expensive, but a labour saving), or you could use hand planes to do this work (saving lots of space ... although you do need a work bench).

Those here recommending keeping your machines don’t get it because their mindset is on the preparation of boards for furniture. This involves finding the desired section of a board, cutting it to size, flattening and thicknessing it to the desired dimensions. That does not appear to be on your radar ... at least not further than getting your son squared away. The mindset of a furniture builder .. even box builder .. lies with the aesthetics as much as the stock for use.

You need to consider whether this is important to you, that is, whether woodworking is a passionate hobby or a cost-saver at home.

On a train to Munich

Derek

[Doug Dawson]

Hi Mike

I am coming in late, but note that you have not responded to anyone here. In my opinion, you should get rid of your machines. The reason I write this is that you do not appear to be interested in the type of work that involves building furniture or anything where preparation of stock for furniture (or larger items). You appear to enjoy (?) building small items, and it is quite reasonable that these can either be prepared from processed boards (more expensive, but a labour saving), or you could use hand planes to do this work (saving lots of space ... although you do need a work bench).

Those here recommending keeping your machines don’t get it because their mindset is on the preparation of boards for furniture. This involves finding the desired section of a board, cutting it to size, flattening and thicknessing it to the desired dimensions. That does not appear to be on your radar ... at least not further than getting your son squared away. The mindset of a furniture builder .. even box builder .. lies with the aesthetics as much as the stock for use.

You need to consider whether this is important to you, that is, whether woodworking is a passionate hobby or a cost-saver at home.


I didn't get the impression that the OP is forsaking woodworking. However, I _would_ add no matter what small items one is dealing with, _square_ lumber is essential, no matter how you're achieving that, and keeping the machinery is important for that, if hand tools aren't in the picture. That everything is an exact thickness or whatever is secondary (a separate issue.)

[Mike Goetzke]

Thanks for all the replies.

Think my post should have been how do I increase my work space? I work out of a 2-1/2 car garage. Have to reserve one space for my wife's car but she lets me use the whole garage on the longer length projects. Half the garage is already filled with my large tools and benches. Think I need to narrow down what I do - I have 1950 Uni, SCMS on mobile base, dust collector, 17" BS, floor standing DP, 15" planer, air compressor, track saw system, 4'x8' knock down MFT table, router table, 8" jointer, PM 3520B lathe, Miller welder, and 6' workbench. And this is just the big stuff :D.

Checked the price of milled hardwood at the local supplier and think I'll keep the J/P for now.

Thanks
Mike

[Patrick Kane]

Mike,

Curious, do you mind posting the breakdown of rough versus S3S per species? I almost reached out to my wholesale supplier to have actual price comparison. I know its nowhere close to $0.13 a board foot. I almost remember it being 50-100% more.

[Doug Dawson]

Thanks for all the replies.

Think my post should have been how do I increase my work space? I work out of a 2-1/2 car garage. Have to reserve one space for my wife's car but she lets me use the whole garage on the longer length projects. Half the garage is already filled with my large tools and benches. Think I need to narrow down what I do - I have 1950 Uni, SCMS on mobile base, dust collector, 17" BS, floor standing DP, 15" planer, air compressor, track saw system, 4'x8' knock down MFT table, router table, 8" jointer, PM 3520B lathe, Miller welder, and 6' workbench. And this is just the big stuff :D.


Well, I work out of a 3-car garage, with a full complement of stationary tools, and I can park _two_ cars in there, in a pinch, thanks to the modern miracle of mobile bases, and some careful planning. Heck, right now I'm doing a significant overhaul of one car, surrounded by tool trays, and it's not even tight. The lathe might be an issue (I have a separate wood/jig storage room for that stuff.) Tomorrow I could roll everything back into place. Overhead and high wall storage is also helpful.

[Mark Bolton]

[QUOTE=Patrick Kane;2981070. I know its nowhere close to $0.13 a board foot. I almost remember it being 50-100% more.[/QUOTE]

Find a new supplier. I cant say If your buying 3-6-10 boards but if your buying half packs or reasonable quantities it should be well below $1 and more like well below $0.50 per bf.

How would a percentage ever work anyway? Surfacing 6/4 figured maple is exactly the same work and time as surfacing 6/4 poplar or pallet wood.

If your being quoted a percentage of your order your being scammed beyond scammed or your dealing with someone who is trying to drive off the fussy public

[Frank Pratt]

Thanks for all the replies.

Think my post should have been how do I increase my work space? I work out of a 2-1/2 car garage. Have to reserve one space for my wife's car but she lets me use the whole garage on the longer length projects. Half the garage is already filled with my large tools and benches. Think I need to narrow down what I do - I have 1950 Uni, SCMS on mobile base, dust collector, 17" BS, floor standing DP, 15" planer, air compressor, track saw system, 4'x8' knock down MFT table, router table, 8" jointer, PM 3520B lathe, Miller welder, and 6' workbench. And this is just the big stuff :D.

Checked the price of milled hardwood at the local supplier and think I'll keep the J/P for now.

Thanks
Mike

I work out of a 2 car garage that has 2 cars parked in it every night. I've got a table saw/router table, floor standing 17" drill press, 6" jointer, 13" planer/sander flip cart, 14" band saw, SCMC, 32" x 72" workbench, 24" x 48" sharpening/general purpose workbench, folding assembly table and folding outfeed table. So to me, you've got lots of room :)

[Jim Becker]

Think my post should have been how do I increase my work space?
J/P combo puts both functions in the same footprint and can be mobile to help conserve assembly space when it's not in use.

[Dan Hahr]

The only wood I don’t mill is plywood.

Dan

[Bob Jones 5443]

Boy, I’d love to have that 8” jointer. Mine’s a 6”.

[Mike Goetzke]

Boy, I’d love to have that 8” jointer. Mine’s a 6”.

Tell me about it! Years ago I took on the challenge to build a new entrance door with sidelights. At the time I had a 6" jointer and one of the heavy frame pieces almost cause my jointer to tip over as I hit the out feed table. That was the decision point to get the 8".

[Derek Cohen]

Mike

You sound more like a serious woodworker now than you did early on! Sorry I doubted you :)

I also recommend a combo jointer/planer. This was my solution and it saved a ton of space.

Regards from Munich

Derek

[Mike Goetzke]

Mike

You sound more like a serious woodworker now than you did early on! Sorry I doubted you :)

I also recommend a combo jointer/planer. This was my solution and it saved a ton of space.

Regards from Munich

Derek

Milled lumber for these big projects -

My door:

423413


kitchen (learned a lot on this project!):

https://thumbnails-photos.amazon.com/v1/thumbnail/-Va9FLSKR4eqQpAJPOBXZQ?viewBox=1264%2C843&ownerId=A2WOME40V79UQV


https://thumbnails-photos.amazon.com/v1/thumbnail/cIkIiXBbQ0G0rGCK_Srq7A?viewBox=1264%2C843&ownerId=A2WOME40V79UQV

[Earl McLain]

Thanks for all the replies.

Think my post should have been how do I increase my work space? I work out of a 2-1/2 car garage. Have to reserve one space for my wife's car but she lets me use the whole garage on the longer length projects. Half the garage is already filled with my large tools and benches. Think I need to narrow down what I do - I have 1950 Uni, SCMS on mobile base, dust collector, 17" BS, floor standing DP, 15" planer, air compressor, track saw system, 4'x8' knock down MFT table, router table, 8" jointer, PM 3520B lathe, Miller welder, and 6' workbench. And this is just the big stuff :D.

Checked the price of milled hardwood at the local supplier and think I'll keep the J/P for now.

Thanks
Mike

Mike--as a favor, i'd be happy to store that 3520B and/or jointer in my garage for you!! :D I've been to Mike's a few times, and he truly makes tremendous use of space...also, that picture doesn't do justice to that front door--it's incredible!!

Glad you posted Mike--i'm past due for the time to put my EZ-One table on a lift. Can't find the one you got at Lowe's (powered by a drill), which i'd prefer...so i'm about to pull the trigger on an electric from HF. If you can recall the brand of the one you have i'd really like a reminder. Thanks!!

And on the topic of S4S from box stores--i bought a little when i first started out, a pair of mahogany boards. Both labeled as 3/4", but the thickness was more than 1/16" different--which i discovered after i cut the dovetails under the assumption that 3/4" would be the same. Nice thing about milling my own is that whatever the thickness--it's consistent. I'd need to have a very reliable supplier to trust that consistency to someone else.

earl

[Jim Becker]

It doesn't matter what lumber is called, how it is processed or by whom...stated dimensions are always "nominal" until you take a caliper to it to determine what it really is, including "for that particular day's temperature and humidity". :) ;)

[jeff norris 2011]

When I saw the title I thought you were talking about milling logs into boards. I do that too, but a lot of the wood I use for my gainful employment is bought in because I don't have all of the trees that I need growing here (curly maple, walnut, African mahogany, cherry etc). I would never want to be without a jointer and planer and drum sander, there are a lot of times that I need them for things other than initial lumber preparation, and even then I like to be able to buy cheaper wood and have the flexibility to make it whatever thickness I need, and then smooth and flatten it again.
Zach

Yes same here. I have gone out and harvested lots of trees, milled them on a portable mill and then paid to have them kiln dried or stickered them for years. It is very cool to have project you built right from cutting down the tree to final finish.

As for not using a jointer and planer - :eek:

I can't imagine this. You would lose so much control over your work.

[Ron Citerone]

If I had a jointer and planer I would keep them. They pay for themselves over and over by milling rough lumber. I belong to a shop that has some big equipment but I am still holding onto my portable planer. IMO it all starts with the milling.