Good and reasonably priced track saw

[brad hays]

I'm tooling up to do my first resin table and I'd rather not spend the $600 for the Festool track saw I'm seeing in all the videos. Is there a comparable model that performs as well? I definitely won't be a high volume producer. Don't need it to do any specialized functions. Just need it to have settings for cut depths and use a vacuum system.

[Jim Becker]

Dewalt, Makita, Grizzly, Triton, Kreg all come to mind...

[Clark Hussey]

I like my Mikita.

[Ian Lerew]

I have the makita also, I like it and the dust collection is good.

[Paul F Mills]

I like my Makita, though I wish it had a riving knife.

[Peter Kelly]

The Makita saw itself looks really nice and solidly made, the only issue is the tracks themselves which aren't known for being consistently straight. I'd try to buy local if you went that route.

[Cary Falk]

I have the DeWalt, My friend has the Makita. I like the Makita track but like the DeWalt saw. The Makita is slow to spin up and I end up plunging it before it is up to speed. The Dewalt feels more powerful.

[Bryan Lisowski]

I like the Festool and others have mentioned options, but if you are only doing 1 table, a circular saw and a guide.

[johnny means]

Most of them are rather spendy, basically withinspitting distance of the Festool. Grizzly sells one for substantially less.

[Frederick Skelly]

I have the Dewalt and like it a lot. But it's $500+. This thread has been interesting and might give you additional ideas. LINK (https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?279102-track-saw-vs-circular-saw-with-guide)

Here's some discussion on the Kreg. LINK (https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?271634-New-KREG-Track-Saw&highlight=Kreg)

[Bryce Walter]

I like my Makita, although I don't have experience with other brands to compare. What led me towards Makita is that I was already invested in their cordless tools and wanted more batteries anyways.

[brad hays]

Thanks for all the advice guys. I've spent so much money up to this point that I'm probably gonna have to go budget on this until I can afford one of the better track options.

So I guess I'll be going with just a straight forward circular saw. Can anyone recommend a good deep cutting circ saw that'll work with using a straight edge guide (maple board) and some clamps?

[glenn bradley]

Another happy Makita user.

[Zac wingert]

What is a resin table?

[David Buchhauser]

Another happy Makita user.


Makita here as well!

[Curt Harms]

The track saw that Grizzly sells is sold under several labels in several colors. I need track saw functions rarely so am happy with a 'saw board' 1/8" masonite with a STRAIGHT aluminum/honeycomb strip glued to the masonite. Run a saw down the overwidth masonite and I have an accurate edge. A track saw will do things a saw guide will not do and perhaps do so more accurately. I guess it depends on how often you need the function and how much of a toy collector you are:p.

[Todd Mason-Darnell]

I have the generic track saw that is sold as a Grizzly--mine was originally under a different name. It is "okay" for rough cutting, but there is a lot of wobble in the track/saw connection that you have to constantly futz with. I had to replace the stock blade with an aftermarket.

I know the OP said that he does not want to spend the Festool $$$, but the problem is, you are either in the Grizzly range or up in the Festool range. Most the Dewalt/Makita are generally in the $450-600 range--which puts in you spitting distance of the Festool.

[Frederick Skelly]

Can anyone recommend a good deep cutting circ saw that'll work with using a straight edge guide (maple board) and some clamps?

Brad, this is an idea that may or may not work for you. Doing a quick price check, circ saws seem to run from $100 to about $250. If you can swing it, you can buy just the (corded) Circ Saw part of the Dewalt Track Saw System (search "bare tool") for around $350. Then buy the aluminum track later, when you are ready. I don't know of any reason that wouldnt work on a shop made track/guide. (Does anyone else?)

Unless you see a need for 2 circ saws in the future, this saves money in the long term. (If you can stretch a little more, now.)

Fred

[Mark Daily]

You can always use straightedge clamps like these:

422864

Useful ideas to use in conjunction with a straightedge:

https://www.woodmagazine.com/woodworking-how-to/shop-tips/nix-inaccurate-fence-with-hardboard-template

https://www.woodmagazine.com/woodworking-plans/jigs/panel-ripping-edge-guide

[Jim Dwight]

Unless you already have tracks, the price of the saw is not very meaningful without factoring in the tracks. I bought my DeWalt because I could get a 100+ track and a 59 inch track with the saw for about 600. Festool would have been nearly double that. Getting two 59 inch tracks would make the Festool more reasonable but I did not want to mess with joining them. But regardless of what configuration you want, I think you need to look at pricing with the required track.

[Cary Falk]

I bought my bought my DeWalt as a refurb. The saw with 2 59" tracks was $320. The nice thing about DeWalt(and Bosch as well) is that they have general sales at holidays that can be as high as $20%. Stores like Lowes and Home Depot often have coupons that can be used towards anything Bosch and DeWalt. Festool is so restricted as to discounts. I bought tracks and accessories for my DeWalt using these discounts

[Derek Arita]

I know you're trying not the spend the bucks and I can appreciate that. That said, I prescribe to the "buy once" idea. If you can at all afford it, you won't be sorry you ponied up for the Festool. Everyone makes comparisons to Festool, so why not get the Festool...if you can.

[Clark Hussey]

What is a resin table?
Epoxy I would guess.

[Bernie Kopfer]

I love my corded Makita. Excellent dust collection! The Dewalt track clamps are excellent and reasonably priced.

[Mark Daily]

How about something like this:

https://www.rockler.com/all-in-one-low-profile-contractor-clamps-new-improved-clamps

Straightedge clamp that you can add a router or circular saw plate to.

[Ole Anderson]

My Grizzly works just fine.

[Will Blick]

There is many ways to get a straight cut. Track saws simplify making a straight cut, at a price of course. A straight cut will only be as straight as the guide, or track. If you have a reliable straight guide, and apply common sense to your technique, you can accomplish a straight cut. The difference is, it takes more time, practice, set up, etc. There is so many products and methods of getting a straight cut, check out youtube videos. I like the masonite idea above. Just remember, when cutting, dont stress out the guide, it can flex, including tracks. Use it as a reference, vs. absorbing lateral saw force. I bought a Bosch corded circ saw on sale for $80, cut quality and dust collection is impressive. So, while track systems work great, and ideal for pros, or those not on a budget, you dont have to break the bank to get straight cuts.

A lot of people buy track systems, in place of a table saw. So the cost of the track system seems less costly as a decent TS would cost as much, or more. This assumes you will have a future in the hobby.

[Ole Anderson]

There is many ways to get a straight cut. Track saws simplify making a straight cut, at a price of course. A straight cut will only be as straight as the guide, or track. If you have a reliable straight guide, and apply common sense to your technique, you can accomplish a straight cut. The difference is, it takes more time, practice, set up, etc. There is so many products and methods of getting a straight cut, check out youtube videos. I like the masonite idea above. Just remember, when cutting, dont stress out the guide, it can flex, including tracks. Use it as a reference, vs. absorbing lateral saw force. I bought a Bosch corded circ saw on sale for $80, cut quality and dust collection is impressive. So, while track systems work great, and ideal for pros, or those not on a budget, you dont have to break the bank to get straight cuts.

A lot of people buy track systems, in place of a table saw. So the cost of the track system seems less costly as a decent TS would cost as much, or more. This assumes you will have a future in the hobby.

One major advantage of a track system, whether it be a saw or router track vs an edge guide, is that you don't need to remember to push the saw or router against the edge guide, it can't wander to the right of the guide as it is captured within the track. Can't tell you how many pieces I ruined trying to keep a router up against a regular guide board.

Another thought regarding posts: We are taught to measure twice, cut once. Same goes for posting. Before I hit the post button (cut if you will), I go back and measure my words again to make sure I caught my obvious mistakes and didn't add an inch here or there. Our work and our words are what most measure us by. Even doing that, I guess I am not surprised how often I need to go back and edit a post that I just put up for everybody to see. Personally I always read my own post after posting it. Much like I run my hands over my finished projects to see if I missed sanding a spot before handing it off to someone else. But etiquette says (and generally the internet has learned) we don't single out someone for spelling or incorrect use of the language. We are not in their shoes. Let it slide. BTW, I am an old engineer, not a wordsmith.

[Delwyn Ching]

Love my Makita SP6000J1!

[Will Blick]

AGreed on riding ON a hump to reduce risk of wander. It happens to all of us. But there is low cost systems out there to accomplish this as well without moving to a full blown track system. Veritas makes there own universal track system you can rig up your tool to work with it. It rides in the track, it can not wander. There is a few ready made ones as well... cant recall the names. These are all lower cost solutions for straight cuts without the risk of wander.

[Tim M Tuttle]

I have the cordless DeWalt and love it but it was $800+ all in with the small and large tracks. Grizzly and WEN have track saws that get decent reviews but I think they only have shorter trackers. I think you can get the WEN and a couple of tracks all in for around $200.

[Jon Endres]

I have an EZ-Smart system that I have been using for approx. 15 years. Hitachi C7SB2 saw. There have been a few times I would like a larger depth of cut, DeWalt, Skil and Makita all make 8-1/4" and larger saws that will work with the EZ-Smart system.

[Jim Becker]

I have an EZ-Smart system that I have been using for approx. 15 years. Hitachi C7SB2 saw. There have been a few times I would like a larger depth of cut, DeWalt, Skil and Makita all make 8-1/4" and larger saws that will work with the EZ-Smart system.
Unfortunately, EZ is no longer an option...they are no longer in business, AFAIK.

[Nick Drake]

Another Makita user here. CPO had a batch of pre owned saws at $250 this fall, it did come with a brand new 48 tooth blade (which has amazing quality for a factory blade).
Got the track through Amazon because of free returns in the event that it was not true, it ended up being dead straight. Out the door $330 all set.

Big pro on the Makita, the track design attaches like festool tracks meaning all the festool based accessories will work. The big bonus for me there was the TSO GRC-12 track connectors will work on it. Those will allow you to combine two tracks without a nightmare of set up given the "keystone" feature. Personally a ~120" track is just too much of a pain to figure out storage in my very small garage with storage in rafters and many lights.

If this is just for one project though I'd clamp down some ply as a straight edge, use a decent blade and hit it with a few passes on a hand plane to get a really smooth finish (I've always found circular saws geared toward rough carpentry work to have more runout in the arbor and not get perfectly smooth edge).

[Jack Clark]

Unfortunately, EZ is no longer an option...they are no longer in business, AFAIK.


Wow, that's a bit of a shock!

[Dave Sabo]

No one has mentioned this, so I will -

Using a DIY or other straight edge with a good ol circular saw is a fools errand in my view. I can't think of any offhand that have dust collection or an effective, accurate and repeatable depth stop. I find both essential for work needing a saw with a straight edge in the first place.

Todd, we may just have differing views on what's "spittin distance". A kreg saw and track or the makita 6000 can be had for $400 and $429 with a guide rail. Cheaper if you can find a special on the makita. A Festool plus a rail will cost you $750 and never go on sale. That's close to double.

That WEN at <$200 all in is hard to beat for a one time or very in-frequent use. Sure you make sacrifices, but for $175 what do you expect.

[Peter Kelly]

Wow, that's a bit of a shock!I didn't doubt Jim but it certainly looks to be true: https://www.eurekazone.com/default.asp

[Ole Anderson]

I think you can get the WEN and a couple of tracks all in for around $200.

What is it about WEN that they can provide the same machines as others, but at a substantial discount? I was looking at small oscillating sanders for a one-time project. Ended up with a WEN at much less cost than other look-a-likes. Same table shape, same horsepower, same number of drums. Built cheaper or is it the business model? I presume they all come from the same Chinese factory with just enough mods to be a bit different.

[Jon Endres]

Unfortunately, EZ is no longer an option...they are no longer in business, AFAIK.

Well. That bites. I'm glad I bought some extra parts and anti-chip inserts.

[Tim M Tuttle]

What is it about WEN that they can provide the same machines as others, but at a substantial discount? I was looking at small oscillating sanders for a one-time project. Ended up with a WEN at much less cost than other look-a-likes. Same table shape, same horsepower, same number of drums. Built cheaper or is it the business model? I presume they all come from the same Chinese factory with just enough mods to be a bit different.High volume and low standards I guess. I have multiple WEN tools; bandsaw, spindle sander, belt/disc sander, drill press, air filter. They are fine for what they are. Decent option for building up a shop. The drill press isnt great. I should spend some time trying to tune it up. I got a Laguna 18bx to replace my WEN 10" bandsaw this past summer. Was planning on giving away the WEN but have ended up keeping it. It's come in handy when I have my 1" resaw blade on my Laguna.

[Mark Hockenberg]

Based solely on others input, the Makita sounds like a good idea.

That said, I'm with Derek above. I went with Festool and have never regretted the purchase. There are great third party accessories to compliment Festool as your arsenal grows.

(Most) of the Festool system is superb. While I have a lot of their tools, not everything has been a home run. So if you go this route, do your research.

[Günter VögelBerg]

I like my makita but agree it seems a bit underpowered. I use the depth stop feature to cut in two passes for hardwood thicker than 3/4 or so.

[Mark Bolton]

Double dipping. Your getting the same info here. Makita from CPO outlets is going to be your cheapest option but your still going to be stuck with your shallow depth of cut problem and the cost of the track. There is NO cheap option for tracks unless you find one used for dirt on craigslist.

You had a good plan with a plain jane saw and a piece of ply for a straight edge. Its your cheapest way out if your in the "resin table" hell hole. Deeper depth of cut. Pretty much zero cost other than a home center saw.

The track serves you little to no purpose other than a little bit of convenience with regards to referencing. Breaking down a slab table there is zero gain to some precise anti-chip/vacuum cut (though it saves some sweeping).

Track saws can be very cumbersome and slow to use with the hose, the depth lock (thumb to release depth) and the electronic speed control in that if your finger flutters on the trigger for a split second the saw will wind down like its unplugged.

They suit fussy work.

A resin table is perfectly suited for the fastest saw to get the job done.

Dont forget that if this isnt for yourself, make it clear there is no warranty.

[glenn bradley]

I'll just add that a couple of reviewers accidentally tested the Makita at a speed setting of 4 and it was comparable to the other saws tested. Realizing their mistake they set the speed to 6 (full) and found that the saw labored in the same cuts where it worked fine at 4. Having seen the review before I got my SP6K I tried it at 4 and 6 in identical cuts and feed rates and found this to be oddly correct with the supplied blade.

[Will Blick]

> Track saws can be very cumbersome and slow to use with the hose, the depth lock (thumb to release depth) and the electronic speed control in that if your finger flutters on the trigger for a split second the saw will wind down like its unplugged.

the more u spend, the more problems are solved. I too found my Festool track use a bit cumbersome, but effective. But then, I went with the TS55 Battery saw, and it was a game changer. no cord, no dust hose. I was doubtful of both the dust collection and the power.... remarkably, both were superb. Now, finally my track system is easy to use.

But on the subject of cumbersome, with all tracks, measuring can be tricky....which side of the blade is your waste piece, blade thickness, support pieces for track for over cut, thin board cut, etc. You need to be a problem solver to get all the set up right, so I agree on those parts, but thats what it takes to get a dust free, splinter free and straight cut.

I have bought all kinds of accessories to reduce measuring mistakes, better repeatability, etc. They help, sometimes, but even they are finniky to set up. BTW, u can spend as much on these measuring accessories as an entire track saw set up. The WP version was nice, but $500 - 600 IIRC. So if you get all the accessories, you spent as much as a Cabinet saw cost. But you can not fold up your Cabinet saw and store it on a shelf, hence the value. I used to try to cut sheets down on my TS, too cumbersome for solo work. The amount of space required for infeed and outfeed, crowded my shop too much. Now I use the Cabinet saw for cross cuts and rips of boards 3ft or less.

[Mark Bolton]

> Track saws can be very cumbersome and slow to use with the hose, the depth lock (thumb to release depth) and the electronic speed control in that if your finger flutters on the trigger for a split second the saw will wind down like its unplugged.

the more u spend, the more problems are solved. I too found my Festool track use a bit cumbersome, but effective. But then, I went with the TS55 Battery saw, and it was a game changer. no cord, no dust hose. I was doubtful of both the dust collection ability and the power.... remarkably, both were superb. Now, finally my track system is easy to use.

But on the subject of cumbersome, with all tracks, measuring can be tricky....which side of the blade is your waste piece, blade thickness, support pieces for track for over cut, thin board cut, etc. You need to be a problem solve to get all the set up right, so I agree on those parts, but thats what it takes to get a dust free, splinter free and straight cut. .

Dust free is a convenient conclusion as is splinter free. Broken record, all depends on what your doing. Cut some sharp nasty material, and youll roach your "vinyl strip". If you keep a few on hand thats fine.

Setting up on one side of the cut or the other is a nightmare which us why I say its still a coarse break down tool not a finish item. Even finely tuned there is enough rack in the saw/track to produce a less than usable end cut unless you take great pains.

But it is a handy tool.

Call me old school but I dont think I will ever trade a cord for a battery. But Im in the profit making world. Cord management as painful as it is is still far better than the best batteries on the planet when your focused on production. Its just not there yet. Power, endless power, and if your hoping for DC, youve got the hose anyway so a cord is nothing more to deal with.

I find myself breaking down with the nuisance of the cord and hose at times (especially for solid surface) merely for the dust collecton of the fines. The TS by no means catches it all, but any amount of sweeping that can be avoided is appreciated for the nuisance of the hose and cord.

[Will Blick]

BTW, it was a few years ago, one of the ww magazines tested all the Track Saws... and IIRC, the Makita tied the Festool for first place for power.

[Will Blick]

AGreed that a cord has endless power...and agreed if you have to deal with a vac hose anyway, the cord is minor issue. Hence why I mentioned the battery system eliminated both.

As u know, Festool serves mostly those in the trades, hence why they made their battery saw have enough capacity to cut 3/4" Ply the length of a football field on a single charge. I never cut that much at once, but it is very impressive how much capacity I have experienced of the dual battery system. Most users like myself, keep a spare set on the charger.

I am not a Festool fanboy by any stretch, I call em as I see em, and have had issues with their products.

I never cut nasty material, so never experienced the problems u suggested. But u do raise another good point, the cost of maintaining the splinter strips, splinter guard on the saws, bottom pads, they can add up fast.

As for racking, twisting, etc. The best you can do is use good technique, push straight down so the bottom rail pads bites the material (which is why you need to keep the bottom clean, and replace those pads as well over time) I also gave up on joining rails, as these joint(s) introduces an additional point of error, either during set up, or flex during use. But as mentioned above, the long rail for a full sheet cut is about $330....

[Jack Lilley]

I just bought a WEN off Amazon. It was less than $200 with 2 sections of track and clamps, has good reviews on youtube. I won't use it allot so it should be good enough for me. It works great, smooth, clean and straight cuts. The dust collection works well.

[Will Blick]

That's great Jack, you can't go wrong at that price.

Since these threads get read long after they die out, I would like to add...
Everyone has different needs for these track saws. For me, its on/off use...
If I was to start this journey over, I would have not invested so much in my track system. Instead, I would have widened my shop space for the cabinet saw. I would use a low cost track system to break down 8ft sheets (or have the lumber yard do it) to sizes close to my final dimensions, then clean them up on my cabinet saw. If no side is larger than 4ft, I could have made it work. its rare I have parts greater than 4ft on their longest dimension.

I dont work on job sites, so for those users, they don't have this option. I also dont do large architectural ww that sometimes requires long rips. Live n learn ;)

[Dave Sabo]

But on the subject of cumbersome, with all tracks, measuring can be tricky....

um.............no, its not. Have you ever used one? You simply measure like anything else. Then draw your witness marks and lay your guide rail with the splinter strips on the edge of those marks. The splinter strip tells you exactly where your kerf is going to be. The cut is always on the right side of that splinter strip. (well with saws other than Kreg) . Figuring your waste side is no more or less difficult with a tracksaw than it is with a skilsaw.


You need to be a problem solver to get all the set up right,

Yup! this is pretty much what woodworking is whether you use a tablesaw, handsaw, chisel, router or any other tools. Design, layout, and thinking about workflow is the job.


Dust free is a convenient conclusion as is splinter free

for some, for others it's a necessity.


VCut some sharp nasty material, and youll roach your "vinyl strip

such as ........?

I've cut honeycomb aluminum and carbon fiber with mine and neither time did I have to replace the splinter strip because of roaching.


Even finely tuned there is enough rack in the saw/track to produce a less than usable end cut unless you take great pains.

Simply NOT TRUE . We've been using tracksaws for over two decades fitting imported kitchens costing upwards of $100k. The panels we cut onsite range from high gloss lacquer, laminate, and exotic veneers like rosewood, ovangkol, and walnut. A fubar or unacceptable panel costs thousands and takes months to re-order. There's really no room for error. We've never re-ordered because our tracksaws screwed the pooch. And, I can tell you we don't spend more than 3-4 minutes measuring, marking, setting the track, and then cutting.


BTW, it was a few years ago, one of the ww magazines tested all the Track Saws... and IIRC, the Makita tied the Festool for first place for power.

Could be, but real world users pretty much all agree that the Festool electric is light in the pants. Their battery version is stronger. Mafell is king of power.




the cost of maintaining the splinter strips, splinter guard on the saws, bottom pads, they can add up fast.

Not for me. I have never, repeat never replaced the top glide strips on any festool tracks in 20+ years. Nor have I replaced the bottom anti-slip pads. I used one that's 15+ years old on Monday all still original. It gets used several times a months on very expensive kitchen panels. The splinter guard does get replaced, especially with a new blade. But it's the cost of the tool, just like a new sawblade or sandpaper. You don't paint replacing those as a drawback, do you ?



I also gave up on joining rails, as these joint(s) introduces an additional point of error, either during set up, or flex during use. But as mentioned above, the long rail for a full sheet cut is about $330....

Again , not for us. We get very accurate results joining two festool rails , and they don't flex while cutting. The secret is to verify (and modify if necessary) the end's' squareness and to leave a very minute gap between two joined rails. .5mm or so. If you want a long rail 8' or more, then Makita's 108" is an absolute bargain at around $200. This assumes your saw works on that type rail, which many do.

[Will Blick]

---Quote---
But on the subject of cumbersome, with all tracks, measuring can be tricky....
---End Quote---
um.............no, its not. Have you ever used one?

Yes Dave. If you read my posts, I have $5K tied up in Festool rail system including both the TS 55 and TS75 and quite the asoortment of rails, clamps, measuring devices, etc. Again, I wrote all this above, sorry to repeat myself. I have been using the rail system for 12+ years...maybe its possible Dave when I hit 20 yrs of use, my experiences will match yours?

> You simply measure like anything else. Then draw you witness marks and lay you guide rail with the splinter strips on the edge of those marks. The splinter strip tells you *exactly *where your kerf is going to be. The cut is always on the right side of that splinter strip. (well with saws other than Kreg) . Figuring your waste side is no more or less difficult with a tracksaw than it is with a skilsaw.

Thx for explaining the obvious Dave. How to draw a line...hmmm, never knew how to mark a line, thx. I dont want this thread to go off on a complete tangent. But IMO, u are over generalizing. Maybe if you use the SAME saw, with the SAME blade, with the SAME rails, and do the SAME type of cuts over and over, then yes, you can get better results and consistent results. What happens when you use a blade that has slightly wider or less wide kerf, now your splinter strip is not true to the old blade. Placing measurements along a 8ft sheet itself can be slightly prone to minor errors, specially when you are shooting for a parallel cut to the reference edge. Is it possible, of course it its. Is it easier than setting the fence on a sliding TS? Not in my experience.
Also, when cutting thinner long strips, specially on short width boards, the waste side is UNDER the rail! Often you have to then support the rail when the piece is not of sufficeint width to support the rail. Again, this is what happens in my real world, but obviously not yours. These are all real issues Dave, and are even mentioned on the FOG.

> You need to be a problem solver to get all the set up right,
---End Quote---
Yup! this is pretty much what woodworking is whether you use a tablesaw, handsaw, chisel, router or any other tools. Design, layout, and thinking about workflow is the job.


Thx again for mentioning the obvious. Again setting my fence on TS is simple, fast and reliable. I use the Incra LS system, VERY accurate and easy to set. I dont find the same true for setting rails. Maybe if I set the rail once, with edge guide measuring, and its right, then repeat it for 100 cuts, yeah, its a fast and reliable system, but not everyone does this. For me, almost every cut I make on sheet goods is different length. Maybe we have different work type, different workflow? Is that possible Dave? I dont want to de rail this thread to get into more details.


---Quote---
Even finely tuned there is enough rack in the saw/track to produce a less than usable end cut unless you take great pains.
---End Quote---
Simply *NOT TRUE *. We've been using tracksaws for over two decades fitting imported kitchens costing upwards of $100k. The panels we cut onsite range from high gloss lacquer, laminate, and exotic veneers like rosewood, ovangkol, and walnut. A fubar or unacceptable panel costs thousands and takes months to re-order. There's really no room for error. We've never re-ordered because our tracksaws screwed the pooch. And, I can tell you we don't spend more than 3-4 minutes measuring, marking setting the track and cutting.

I will agree with the previous posters who mentioned this, as its been my experience too. I have cut many long rip cuts with single rails. They often need to be straight for edge glue ups. I will use under rail clamps, to help prevent no movement. I then check my cut edge with my 6ft Starett straight edge, (prob. .001" tolerance over the entire length), and occasionaly I will get some straight cuts. Other times I see the flashlight shining through the cut edge and the Starett. HOw far out? it varies, 2-10 thou. Why does this happen? You can get some rail deflection...which should not be that big of a surprise, its a long rail, and the rails are not exactly robust. (for good reasons) Yes good technique helps, but again, I dont find it 100% perfect like you do. When I took a Festool class 10 yrs ago, even the instructor had a cut or two which was not perfectly straight. So, maybe you are greatest Festool user on planet earth, and the rest of us need to catch up to your skillset.


---Quote---
the cost of maintaining the splinter strips, splinter guard on the saws, bottom pads, they can add up fast.
---End Quote---
Not for me. I have never, repeat never replaced the top glide strips on any festool tracks in 20+ years.

Either have I...and I dont recall anyone saying they replace the top strips, right??

> Nor have I replaced the bottom anti-slip pads. I used one that's 15+ years old on Monday all still original. It gets used several times a months on very expensive kitchen panels.

> I have had these anti slip pads disinigrate over time when exposed to desert heat, some finish or glue can occasionaly get on them. Also, they loose their tack, I do keep them clean, as I noticed the rail does not move on the material as much when the anti slip strip is wiped cleaned. Again, maybe your anti slip strips can be full of fine sawdust, and yet, still bite the wood as well vs. cleaned anti slip strip...if so, kudos to you Dave! Thats not my experience.
As for cost, I simply mentioned, there is also maint. cost with these items, as this thread was about minimizing cost. Just trying to be helpful.


> The splinter guard does get replaced, especially with a new blade. But it's the cost of the tool, just like a new sawblade or sandpaper.

Or, what happens when they loose their tack, and begin to fall off, a mix of temperature extremes, being bumped, etc. This is my experience Dave, sorry it does not jive with your experience.

This response reminds me of typical FOG responses of 10 years ago, if you dont drink the GREEN KOOL AID, the force will be after you! I buy lots of Festool tools...and many of them I like, some I have a few small issues with, but I like to be honest with fellow ww's, vs. blind loyalty to a manufacturer. I noticed on the FOG recently, many users are coming out of the closet and being honest, nice to see that.

[David Buchhauser]

I couldn't read the yellow print, so .....

---Quote---
But on the subject of cumbersome, with all tracks, measuring can be tricky....
---End Quote---
um.............no, its not. Have you ever used one?

Yes Dave. If you read my posts, I have $5K tied up in Festool rail system including both the TS 55 and TS75 and quite the asoortment of rails, clamps, measuring devices, etc. Again, I wrote all this above, sorry to repeat myself. I have been using the rail system for 12+ years...maybe its possible Dave when I hit 20 yrs of use, my experiences will match yours?

> You simply measure like anything else. Then draw you witness marks and lay you guide rail with the splinter strips on the edge of those marks. The splinter strip tells you *exactly *where your kerf is going to be. The cut is always on the right side of that splinter strip. (well with saws other than Kreg) . Figuring your waste side is no more or less difficult with a tracksaw than it is with a skilsaw.

Thx for explaining the obvious Dave. How to draw a line...hmmm, never knew how to mark a line, thx. I dont want this thread to go off on a complete tangent. But IMO, u are over generalizing. Maybe if you use the SAME saw, with the SAME blade, with the SAME rails, and do the SAME type of cuts over and over, then yes, you can get better results and consistent results. What happens when you use a blade that has slightly wider or less wide kerf, now your splinter strip is not true to the old blade. Placing measurements along a 8ft sheet itself can be slightly prone to minor errors, specially when you are shooting for a parallel cut to the reference edge. Is it possible, of course it its. Is it easier than setting the fence on a sliding TS? Not in my experience.
Also, when cutting thinner long strips, specially on short width boards, the waste side is UNDER the rail! Often you have to then support the rail when the piece is not of sufficeint width to support the rail. Again, this is what happens in my real world, but obviously not yours. These are all real issues Dave, and are even mentioned on the FOG.
> You need to be a problem solver to get all the set up right,
---End Quote---
Yup! this is pretty much what woodworking is whether you use a tablesaw, handsaw, chisel, router or any other tools. Design, layout, and thinking about workflow is the job.
Thx again for mentioning the obvious. Again setting my fence on TS is simple, fast and reliable. I use the Incra LS system, VERY accurate and easy to set. I dont find the same true for setting rails. Maybe if I set the rail once, with edge guide measuring, and its right, then repeat it for 100 cuts, yeah, its a fast and reliable system, but not everyone does this. For me, almost every cut I make on sheet goods is different length. Maybe we have different work type, different workflow? Is that possible Dave? I dont want to de rail this thread to get into more details.


---Quote---
Even finely tuned there is enough rack in the saw/track to produce a less than usable end cut unless you take great pains.
---End Quote---
Simply *NOT TRUE *. We've been using tracksaws for over two decades fitting imported kitchens costing upwards of $100k. The panels we cut onsite range from high gloss lacquer, laminate, and exotic veneers like rosewood, ovangkol, and walnut. A fubar or unacceptable panel costs thousands and takes months to re-order. There's really no room for error. We've never re-ordered because our tracksaws screwed the pooch. And, I can tell you we don't spend more than 3-4 minutes measuring, marking setting the track and cutting.

I will agree with the previous posters who mentioned this, as its been my experience too. I have cut many long rip cuts with single rails. They often need to be straight for edge glue ups. I will use under rail clamps, to help prevent no movement. I then check my cut edge with my 6ft Starett straight edge, (prob. .001" tolerance over the entire length), and occasionaly I will get some straight cuts. Other times I see the flashlight shining through the cut edge and the Starett. HOw far out? it varies, 2-10 thou. Why does this happen? You can get some rail deflection...which should not be that big of a surprise, its a long rail, and the rails are not exactly robust. (for good reasons) Yes good technique helps, but again, I dont find it 100% perfect like you do. When I took a Festool class 10 yrs ago, even the instructor had a cut or two which was not perfectly straight. So, maybe you are greatest Festool user on planet earth, and the rest of us need to catch up to your skillset.


---Quote---
the cost of maintaining the splinter strips, splinter guard on the saws, bottom pads, they can add up fast.
---End Quote---
Not for me. I have never, repeat never replaced the top glide strips on any festool tracks in 20+ years.

Either have I...and I dont recall anyone saying they replace the top strips, right??

> Nor have I replaced the bottom anti-slip pads. I used one that's 15+ years old on Monday all still original. It gets used several times a months on very expensive kitchen panels.

> I have had these anti slip pads disinigrate over time when exposed to desert heat, some finish or glue can occasionaly get on them. Also, they loose their tack, I do keep them clean, as I noticed the rail does not move on the material as much when the anti slip strip is wiped cleaned. Again, maybe your anti slip strips can be full of fine sawdust, and yet, still bite the wood as well vs. cleaned anti slip strip...if so, kudos to you Dave! Thats not my experience.
As for cost, I simply mentioned, there is also maint. cost with these items, as this thread was about minimizing cost. Just trying to be helpful.


> The splinter guard does get replaced, especially with a new blade. But it's the cost of the tool, just like a new sawblade or sandpaper.

Or, what happens when they loose their tack, and begin to fall off, a mix of temperature extremes, being bumped, etc. This is my experience Dave, sorry it does not jive with your experience.

This response reminds me of typical FOG responses of 10 years ago, if you dont drink the GREEN KOOL AID, the force will be after you! I buy lots of Festool tools...and many of them I like, some I have a few small issues with, but I like to be honest with fellow ww's, vs. blind loyalty to a manufacturer. I noticed on the FOG recently, many users are coming out of the closet and being honest, nice to see that.

[Mark Bolton]

AGreed that a cord has endless power...and agreed if you have to deal with a vac hose anyway, the cord is minor issue. Hence why I mentioned the battery system eliminated both.

As u know, Festool serves mostly those in the trades, hence why they made their battery saw have enough capacity to cut 3/4" Ply the length of a football field on a single charge. I never cut that much at once, but it is very impressive how much capacity I have experienced of the dual battery system. Most users like myself, keep a spare set on the charger.

I am not a Festool fanboy by any stretch, I call em as I see em, and have had issues with their products.

I never cut nasty material, so never experienced the problems u suggested. But u do raise another good point, the cost of maintaining the splinter strips, splinter guard on the saws, bottom pads, they can add up fast.

As for racking, twisting, etc. The best you can do is use good technique, push straight down so the bottom rail pads bites the material (which is why you need to keep the bottom clean, and replace those pads as well over time) I also gave up on joining rails, as these joint(s) introduces an additional point of error, either during set up, or flex during use. But as mentioned above, the long rail for a full sheet cut is about $330....

Yep, the rails are a pain to say the least. Its a tricky adjustment and I find myslef fiddling and fumbling with track saw all the time, sometimes pretty frustratingly lol.

I bought a 118" guide rail as opposed to the joining and have two shorter rails. Its handy when its handy for sure. I agree about the battery and modest use. Heck, a lot in the trades now are 100% cordless but I dont think a lot of them spend much time remembering/comparing to corded. Many years ago I had finally sworn off cordless all together frustrated with the cost of replacement batteries/rebuilds, climbing up somewhere with a couple/three batteries, and so on. When I switched back to corded I smacked myself daily thinking of all the time Id wasted not stringing a cord.

Then a bought a guys entire commercial tool collection who got injured and in the job box was every Makita LXT tool out there and about 12-15 batteries and 3 chargers. 3 of them were impacts. Those three impacts put me back on cordless impact drivers for life lol. But we are now again running low on batteries as they go kaput so the irritation sets in again. Doing zero field work now and being in the shop only makes corded a lot easier but not so much with impacts.

[Dave Sabo]

Will & David - hard to navigate who's response is who's but I am definitely not a green kool aid drinker. Festool has done a piss poor job with Kapexgate (and that's assuming the current "fix" even works) .Their battery drill program in 12v is a decade behind pretty much everyone and their battery platform compatibility is also asinine. So don't be sorry.

And what might be obvious to you and me is probably not to the newbie or even Brad who came here asking about a saw to work on big slab tables. He wanted something with depth setting accuracy and dust collection. Some of y'all's comments are misleading even if they are accurate for some users. I am simply pointing out that yours is not the only perspective. People should have all the info. For your operations it sounds like you're rough on the consumables and they need replacing often which must cause a financial strain. For the average retired hobbiest, I can see where this might be a concern - if they really use it a lot. Even then , don't you think the wood cost is going to be a bigger hurdle ? For the hobbyist that can afford a good tracksaw setup, I doubt $100 a year for some wear items is going to be a big issue.

Bottom line is these are wear items people expect to replace at intervals. You two probably complain about having to by 4-6 different grits of sandpaper for a project or having to swap pieces when they wear out or gum up with finish. Lord help ya when the pad goes out. Are you advocating not using sanders because they eat consumables ? Sure one should think about total cost of ownership and use, but not pulling the trigger becasue something will wear out is daft.


Sure a format or slider would be better for some or many operations. On a reg. tablesaw you will never convince me that muscling a big slab or 4x8 sheet is easier or faster than taking a small saw to the work. Additionally, Brad is weary of spending 600$, so what do you suppose he'd think of a slider's $8-$50,000 price tag ? And that's assuming he even has enough shop space to accommodate a 8.5 - 10' stroke.

Yes cutting thin strips is a disaster with a tracksaw. But again, Brad didn't ask about that kind of operation. And I'm sure you are also aware of the other obvious that some tools are better suited for jobs than others.

If it's a hobby, you have to pay to play. Golf and tennis require new balls frequently as well as expensive tools to play. If it's a business, strips and sandpaper are part of the overhead that the customer pays. You sages know this already, though.

[Will Blick]

> I am simply pointing out that yours is not the only perspective. People should have all the info.

Huh?? u might want to go re read your previous post. No one here was denying your opinions. It was you, who was citing I was wrong about my actual experience using these products for 12 years. lets get real here...

> Even then , don't you think the wood cost is going to be a bigger hurdle ? For the hobbyist that can afford a good tracksaw setup, I doubt $100 a year for some wear items is going to be a big issue.

Dave, did I ever complain about the cost of consumables in my post?? Answer = NO. I was simply mentioning it, as the basis of this thread was saving $ on a track saw, remember??

> You two probably complain about having to by 4-6 different grits of sandpaper for a project or having to swap pieces when they wear out or gum up with finish. Lord help ya when the pad goes out.

I can only speak for myself... I have prob. $3K in Festool sandpaper and pads in inventory. Do I complain about it? No, I keep buying it. Seems now, u are making even more accusations about how I work, and what bothers me. U keep digging yourself a deeper hole.

> Are you advocating not using sanders because they eat consumables ?

No, where did u pull that one from??

> Sure one should think about total cost of ownership and use, but not pulling the trigger becasue something will wear out is daft.

There is a LOT of items, I dont purchase due to maint. cost, such as high end european cars, where an oil change is $1300. So maint. cost matters to most of us. We all have different thresholds of what is too much. I think its rude you are passing judgement on how others make purchase decisions.



> Sure a format or slider would be better for some or many operations. On a reg. tablesaw you will never convince me that muscling a big slab or 4x8 sheet is easier or faster than taking a small saw to the work.

I can only assume you are NOT reading what I am writing, or simply not comprehending what I am writing. You are supporting my position here, not contesting it. But you dont realize it ! I made it clear, I dont like handling anything on a stationary saw larger than 4ft in one dimension...hence why I have track saws. Pls re read my posts before commenting on them so this banter does not continue.

> Additionally, Brad is weary of spending 600$, so what do you suppose he'd think of a slider's $8-$50,000 price tag ? And that's assuming he even has enough shop space to accommodate a 8.5 - 10' stroke.

Who was suggesting Brad buy a 50K TS? Answer = NOBODY!!


> Yes cutting thin strips is a disaster with a tracksaw. But again, Brad didn't ask about that kind of operation.

Dave, do you realize what you wrote in your last post??
"People should have all the info. "
I was doing exactly what you are preaching, and yet, u now have a problem with it? Make up your mind, pls!
Its called a forum Dave, this is where we share information. These threads will be read for many years, many people benefit from information that is relevant to the issue at hand. That is all my posts did.

OK Dave, bring on your next false accusations and personal attacks? I await....